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Cacator posted:Every Craig movie has been chasing a trend (although this is true for much of the series starting with Roger Moore). Casino Royale was a gritty reboot like Batman Begins, Quantum of Solace took the shaky cam from the Bourne series, Skyfall was very Dark Knight inspired and Spectre decided it wanted to be the MCU. I don't think the new movie really had a choice but to wrap it all up and I hope they go back to standalone films next time. I haven't been following the trailers much, is this one going to follow a trend/competing franchise? If there was anything out there for Bond to emulate a bit it'd be John Wick.
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Aug 31, 2021 18:29
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It just feels a bit like Mission Impossible has supplanted Bond in terms of quality, plus it doesn’t take itself seriously. Bond feels so out of sync with our current moment
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Aug 31, 2021 18:32
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Jewmanji posted:It just feels a bit like Mission Impossible has supplanted Bond in terms of quality, plus it doesn’t take itself seriously. Bond feels so out of sync with our current moment Setting aside whether audiences might find it distasteful to root for an assassin on the payroll of the British government in a movie series where every woman other than the platonic secretary friend ends up disposed of in one way or another, I'm not sure what the franchise is supposed to be or be best at anymore. And I'm a lifelong Bond fan. Is it stunts, gunplay, gadgets, car chases, cinematography, being a travelogue, puns, elaborate schemes, saving the world, etc. M:I and several other competing franchises over the years have done all of that stuff in one way or another and arguably better.
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Aug 31, 2021 18:55
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Lobok posted:Setting aside whether audiences might find it distasteful to root for an assassin on the payroll of the British government in a movie series where every woman other than the platonic secretary friend ends up disposed of in one way or another, I'm not sure what the franchise is supposed to be or be best at anymore. And I'm a lifelong Bond fan. Is it stunts, gunplay, gadgets, car chases, cinematography, being a travelogue, puns, elaborate schemes, saving the world, etc. M:I and several other competing franchises over the years have done all of that stuff in one way or another and arguably better. Yes, perfectly put. I also think the Bond archetype had more salience in earlier eras when he was squaring off against increasingly comic-book style villains with incredibly dastardly and over-the-top plans. Now that the series has pivoted to "realistic" settings, it begs these types of questions. A movie like Moonraker isn't preoccupied with questions of realpolitik and the ethics of assassination. Craig-era Bond seems to want to have its cake and eat it too by suggesting that its an ugly business, but a necessary one, which gets you into Jack Bauer territory.
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Aug 31, 2021 19:06
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I rewatched Goldeneye a few months back and it was funny to see a 1995 Bond movie lampshading its own age and anachronism. I love the movies, I love Daniel Craig in the role, I'm hyped for the new one, yet I still can't escape the sense that this is a zombie franchise that needs to be put down.
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Aug 31, 2021 19:22
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Yeah more Knives Out Daniel Craig and less Bond Craig
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Aug 31, 2021 19:22
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Give Bond to someone like Edgar Wright and make it not try to compete with stuff like M:I, rather have it be campy, stylish, breezy fun. Put someone super young and not white in the role like John Boyega. e: I realize this would be the commercial death of the franchise but I'm just saying what I want to see lol
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Aug 31, 2021 19:38
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Fast and Furious is a better spy franchise than Bond.
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Aug 31, 2021 19:43
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GrandpaPants posted:Fast and Furious is a better spy franchise than Bond. it's certainly similar in that only about 25% of the franchise is any good
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Aug 31, 2021 20:16
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GrandpaPants posted:Fast and Furious is a better spy franchise than Bond. stop it
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Aug 31, 2021 20:29
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Jewmanji posted:Yes, perfectly put. I also think the Bond archetype had more salience in earlier eras when he was squaring off against increasingly comic-book style villains with incredibly dastardly and over-the-top plans. Now that the series has pivoted to "realistic" settings, it begs these types of questions. A movie like Moonraker isn't preoccupied with questions of realpolitik and the ethics of assassination. Craig-era Bond seems to want to have its cake and eat it too by suggesting that its an ugly business, but a necessary one, which gets you into Jack Bauer territory. I've completely checked out of the Bond movies since Casino Royale. I'm not sure why since I really enjoyed Casino Royale and I've seen every earlier Bond movie. Several multiple times. Maybe it is because there are movies like John Wick out there now. From watching that trailer, all I can think is, "Well, that sure is a Bond movie," with no interest at all in actually seeing it. As mentioned, maybe it is that after seeing how amazing Daniel Craig is in other things (Logan Lucky) there is a bit of, "Man, what a waste of Daniel Craig's talents."
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Aug 31, 2021 20:34
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I think it's time to retire Bond and give the spotlight to Jack Reacher.
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Aug 31, 2021 20:59
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acksplode posted:I rewatched Goldeneye a few months back and it was funny to see a 1995 Bond movie lampshading its own age and anachronism. I love the movies, I love Daniel Craig in the role, I'm hyped for the new one, yet I still can't escape the sense that this is a zombie franchise that needs to be put down. This is funny to see as a general sentiment given that Casino Royale effectively breathed new life into the franchise with its grittier more character driven direction after the Brosnan era developed into self parody territory. Though come to think of it, Goldeneye served much the same function in its day as Casino Royale. I think Craig has had an arguably better run than many Bond actors. But it’s funny to see people get tired of the tone of the Craig movies and wish for something campier when campiness was precisely the reason the franchise died for so many people by the time Die Another Day hit. Full circle I guess.
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Aug 31, 2021 21:11
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GrandpaPants posted:Fast and Furious is a better spy franchise than Bond. lol no
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Aug 31, 2021 21:16
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man nurse posted:This is funny to see as a general sentiment given that Casino Royale effectively breathed new life into the franchise with its grittier more character driven direction after the Brosnan era developed into self parody territory. Though come to think of it, Goldeneye served much the same function in its day as Casino Royale. I think Craig has had an arguably better run than many Bond actors. But it’s funny to see people get tired of the tone of the Craig movies and wish for something campier when campiness was precisely the reason the franchise died for so many people by the time Die Another Day hit. It really depends on the zeitgeist, I think. The world is so loving bleak right now (possibly forever) that we desperately want some sincerity and lightheartedness back in entertainment. Grimdark stuff is more popular in relatively more prosperous times.
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Aug 31, 2021 21:34
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AceOfFlames posted:Grimdark stuff is more popular in relatively more prosperous times. Not sure you can really say that. The 70s were a banner decade for adult, depressing genre works. That’s what Star Wars was reacting to.
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Aug 31, 2021 21:47
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It's time.
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Aug 31, 2021 21:48
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I don't really think of the Craig movies as all that gritty and Casino Royale would definitely be the grittiest of them anyway. Maybe self-serious, though. Which I think, for all the grit I just mentioned, Casino Royale was also the one that had the most fun.
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Aug 31, 2021 21:51
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Quantum of Solace was easily the worst Craig 007 movie, but to be fair to everyone involved, a great deal, if not all of that, was the result of it being produced during the writer’s strike.
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Aug 31, 2021 21:54
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Lobok posted:I don't really think of the Craig movies as all that gritty and Casino Royale would definitely be the grittiest of them anyway. Maybe self-serious, though. Which I think, for all the grit I just mentioned, Casino Royale was also the one that had the most fun. This is exactly what I was thinking. Casino Royale had a more serious tone, but it was a fun movie. I still remember how the theater gasped when they crashed the Aston Martin in that movie. The only purpose of that scene was the fun of destroying a beautiful car. Casino Royale has a lot of things like that in it.
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Aug 31, 2021 21:55
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Idk, spectre was really crappy, and way worse than QOS which is kind of bland.
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Aug 31, 2021 21:56
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CelticPredator posted:Idk, spectre was really crappy, and way worse than QOS which is kind of bland. Yeah Spectre was a failure on multiple levels (aside from the opening scene which is the only good part). The shoehorned, flimsy attempts to retcon all the Craig films; the weak homages to classic Bond movies like FRWL and OHMSS; the most boring car chase ever; a plot "twist" stolen from Austin Powers that adds nothing to the movie. Also they rejected the beautiful Radiohead theme in favor of Sam Smith who admitted he didn't put any effort into it.
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Aug 31, 2021 22:15
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Which is the one where they Home Alone the house at the end? I liked that one, the cinematography was incredible
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Aug 31, 2021 22:20
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Pretty sure that's Skyfall.
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Aug 31, 2021 22:24
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Yeah it's Skyfall, Roger Deakins does incredible work
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Aug 31, 2021 22:25
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I think parts of Spectre are good as has been pointed out, but I agree it’s very bland overall. I do like the theme song though. Sorry. I enjoyed QoS quite a bit, even the whiplash editing. The opera sequence was fantastic, too. I thought it worked pretty well as a capstone to Royale although it’s admittedly a very different beast. Skyfall I felt was excellent all around, beautifully shot and introduced some of the classic staples of the franchise that people were missing. Spectre unfortunately didn’t do anything memorable with it. But I could watch the opening sequence all day, and I thought the train fight was sufficiently brutal.
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Aug 31, 2021 23:00
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It's wild that Casino Royale is probably the best Bond movie and every Craig era one since has been awful. Same guy what directed Goldeneye, which was pretty great and every Brosnon one after was pretty lovely, cursed man
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Aug 31, 2021 23:20
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kiimo posted:Which is the one where they Home Alone the house at the end? That part is the exact moment I gave up on Bond movies
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Aug 31, 2021 23:22
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man nurse posted:This is funny to see as a general sentiment given that Casino Royale effectively breathed new life into the franchise with its grittier more character driven direction after the Brosnan era developed into self parody territory. Though come to think of it, Goldeneye served much the same function in its day as Casino Royale. I think Craig has had an arguably better run than many Bond actors. But it’s funny to see people get tired of the tone of the Craig movies and wish for something campier when campiness was precisely the reason the franchise died for so many people by the time Die Another Day hit. I don’t think they need to go as full on campy as Die Another Day. But the comparison someone made earlier to Mission: Impossible is a good one, and one I’ve made before. The MI movies are fun, globe trotting movies with exciting action set pieces. Key words being “fun” and “exciting” with fun gadgets. They’re better Bond movies than the most recent Bond movies. The Craig movies are just dour, outside of Casino Royale (which is still a bit dour). I’d rather watch MI Fallout than the last 3 Bond movies any day of the week.
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Aug 31, 2021 23:31
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Also, yes, hire Martin Campbell, director of Goldeneye and Casino Royale, to direct the next Bond movie please. He clearly knows how to direct an actor’s first Bond outing.
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Aug 31, 2021 23:32
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Crazy that he also directed Green Lantern
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Aug 31, 2021 23:36
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Rebuild the Bond canon around Quantum of Solace. He’s left MI:6 entirely, and lives in Bolivia thwarting villainy from various international resource extraction companies.
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Aug 31, 2021 23:38
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He really does, but they inevitably just turn into trash
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Aug 31, 2021 23:39
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it goes Good Bad Good Bad so theoretically this one should be good Casino Royale > Quantum of Solace > Skyfall > Spectre > No Time to Die? Lets hope it follows the same structure
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Sep 1, 2021 00:07
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Fast and Furious is a better superhero franchise than the MCU.
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Sep 1, 2021 00:12
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Just go off the books and make Bond a fat angry alcoholic who gets all pissy when he is put on a diet and just let the Mission Impossible series handle the cool spy stuff.
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Sep 1, 2021 00:18
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Gonz posted:Quantum of Solace was easily the worst Craig 007 movie, but to be fair to everyone involved, a great deal, if not all of that, was the result of it being produced during the writer’s strike. Nah, Quantum of Solace at least had the good grace to be short. Spectre was borning, shite and long.
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Sep 1, 2021 00:32
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edogawa rando posted:Nah, Quantum of Solace at least had the good grace to be short. Spectre was borning, shite and long. QoS has the rare female protagonist that doesn't die or gently caress bond
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Sep 1, 2021 00:34
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:QoS has the rare female protagonist that doesn't die or gently caress bond And she actually ended up with decent action movie cred without even being one of those "Bond has met his match!" Bond girls they try to do every now and then.
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Sep 1, 2021 00:40
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the greatest james bond movie is living daylights and they should just put that one in theaters again
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Sep 1, 2021 01:00
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