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poseable minis in a wargame sounds like a nightmare but i really enjoy messing with that stuff in the few cases where you do have options like the old Shredder packs where there are like 4 subtle variations of body/leg combinations and you have a lot of freedom to attach the legs at different angles
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Aug 8, 2021 21:18
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Aesthetically it's a mishmash because Cryx was the bad guy for the d20 material, and I imagine whatever homebrew setting one of the designers created, that preceded Warmachine proper. Think there is problem is shared by many small games companies and also fantasy authors generally: much of is a continuation of whatever fantasy world/campaign they were doodling in high school/college. This means they aren't sufficiently willing to cut cruft (or for games, give all factions equal attention), and because they have lived in the world for years they become engrossed in fine details and long narratives and don't spend enough time refining the high concept thematic pitches.
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Aug 8, 2021 22:06
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It looks like the Khador battlegroup box is out of print, is that still the best way to get into them? Like, just keep an eye on ebay and try to pay MSRP?
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Aug 10, 2021 11:24
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No. 1 Juicy Boi posted:It looks like the Khador battlegroup box is out of print, is that still the best way to get into them? Like, just keep an eye on ebay and try to pay MSRP? Look for second hand stuff, you should be able to get a LOT for your money.
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Aug 10, 2021 15:54
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:poseable minis in a wargame sounds like a nightmare but i really enjoy messing with that stuff in the few cases where you do have options The plastic Shredders are great.
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Aug 11, 2021 02:02
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MCPeePants posted:Look for second hand stuff, you should be able to get a LOT for your money. You can get armies for like 25% of MRSP now, especially if you're willing to strip paintjobs. Sometimes less if you find someone that just wants to unload their poo poo.
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Aug 11, 2021 08:15
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Maneck posted:The plastic Shredders are great. Hell yeah! I have 6 from the MKII and MKIII starters  I wish I had more
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Aug 11, 2021 10:44
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Davedave24 posted:The three armies I find most appealing are the dwarves, the pigs, and the gators, none of which get to be real factions of course The Dwarves might get to be a real faction based on the lore after the Claiming. Rhul is flexing it's muscles and they're powerful enough compared to the other kingdoms to make some moves if they choose to do so. Also the Dwarves being the only race who killed their progenitor makes them interesting to me, they're free in a way none of the other races are.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:28
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Davedave24 posted:The three armies I find most appealing are the dwarves, the pigs, and the gators, none of which get to be real factions of course Gators are real, and pigs are real enough since they can combine with trolls in one of their themes.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:35
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I am just curious for an honest review of the state of the game and PP right now. The Warmahordes community in my country dried up when MK3 dropped, it went from being played by all my friends pretty much exclusively to being dumped. Even now you do not see any items on shelves and not a single LGS stocks it to my knowledge (I know its mostly direct order). You can't even sell your miniatures second hand at a huge discount I was chatting with a few friends last night on Discord and one mentioned that he thought the game was good/balanced now? from stuff he had heard. I think it was wishful thinking but I would be interested to see if it is actually coming back. Keep in mind the thing that really killed it for a lot of my friends was the way theme forces became the only way to build an army because the bonuses were just too good to pass up. That and the ridiculous power imbalances the early CID stuff introduced. There was that new circle gargantuan or battle tower thing (I can't remember the terminology) that became synonymous with how out of whack the balance had gotten. So what's the state of play right now? one look at the website told me they haven't killed a single model and SKU bloat must be insane.
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Aug 30, 2021 23:26
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Hoboskins posted:I am just curious for an honest review of the state of the game and PP right now. The Warmahordes community in my country dried up when MK3 dropped, it went from being played by all my friends pretty much exclusively to being dumped. Even now you do not see any items on shelves and not a single LGS stocks it to my knowledge (I know its mostly direct order). You can't even sell your miniatures second hand at a huge discount The state of PP and the community is pretty close to non-existent and they seriously burned their relationships with the retailers last decade by going after the internet dollar - and have recently lost some of their most respected staff. I think the only models released for Warmahordes this year have been for Crucible Guard and the Retribution and the riot-quest spinoff - and all we know is coming this year is a collection of lesser warlocks. PP have moved over to their new game Warcaster: Neo-Mechanica, which is a SF version of Warmahordes and seems to have about a thousand players total (or at least two thousand backed the first kickstarter and about a thousand backed the sequel kickstarters). Is the game itself better balanced than it's ever been? Possibly. It's debatable. But the game itself is more or less gone and I don't think the FLGSs will take it back - while PP themselves want you to play their new game. Meanwhile its advantage to play over e.g. 40k and Age of Sigmar is a lot lower than it was.
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Aug 31, 2021 00:33
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Oddly we suddenly have a small community of Monsterpocalypse here all of a sudden.
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Aug 31, 2021 01:18
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Dawgstar posted:Oddly we suddenly have a small community of Monsterpocalypse here all of a sudden. Pretty sure MonPoc has been selling better than WMH just about since it was re-released. No way to prove that but it wouldn't surprise me, anyways.
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Aug 31, 2021 02:45
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S.J. posted:Pretty sure MonPoc has been selling better than WMH just about since it was re-released. No way to prove that but it wouldn't surprise me, anyways. I think PP is the only real game in town when it comes to Kaiju combat games, so it doesn’t surprise me. Lots of fantasy and sci-fi choices when it comes to miniature games, including their own preferred game.
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Aug 31, 2021 03:21
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koreban posted:I think PP is the only real game in town when it comes to Kaiju combat games, so it doesn’t surprise me. Lots of fantasy and sci-fi choices when it comes to miniature games, including their own preferred game. Yeah, which reminds me, I wish there were some decent modern day minis games out there other than Batman/CP. Really tired of superheroes.
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Aug 31, 2021 03:26
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So with you there. CP is a solid game, but good god do I wish half the line wasn't dudes in tights. Hoping Battletech can fill the gap.
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Aug 31, 2021 03:29
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smug jeebus posted:So with you there. CP is a solid game, but good god do I wish half the line wasn't dudes in tights. Hoping Battletech can fill the gap. I've been trying to find some sort of urban fantasy style miniature game and I don't think there really is one unfortunately, at least not well known enough for my half-assed searches. Battletech isn't awful but holy gently caress they could use with some game design concepts implemented some time in this millennia.
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Aug 31, 2021 03:37
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I just started going back to game stores after several years off, and the Warmachine section is basically a small set of highly marked-down boxes in a corner. The store discord gets maybe one post in the Warmahordes channel a month. Monsterpocalypse seems to be in better shape, they at least seem to be stocking product for it, although it's more or less just an aisle-ender worth compared to a wall for GW, a wall of RPG stuff, and two walls of board games. There are basically zero events or set gaming days being organized, I did find one dude who plays and was super excited to know that I had kept all my stuff and would be willing to play sometime. I missed the collapse but boy it seems to be in a really rough spot.
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Aug 31, 2021 12:01
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Ashcans posted:I just started going back to game stores after several years off, and the Warmachine section is basically a small set of highly marked-down boxes in a corner. The store discord gets maybe one post in the Warmahordes channel a month. Monsterpocalypse seems to be in better shape, they at least seem to be stocking product for it, although it's more or less just an aisle-ender worth compared to a wall for GW, a wall of RPG stuff, and two walls of board games. There are basically zero events or set gaming days being organized, I did find one dude who plays and was super excited to know that I had kept all my stuff and would be willing to play sometime. I missed the collapse but boy it seems to be in a really rough spot. I haven't been to my preferred store since 2019, and that was after about a year off due to reasons. It was about the same, but I also have to say that at the time all the Warhammer stuff had been drastically reduced too. It seemed like at the time there was a shift toward board games and comic books over miniatures  The last gaming store I went into was about a year ago, a new one popped up near me, and I went to check it out. It was about the same, mostly board games, with a tiny display for Warhammer. Miniatures all-around are perhaps ebbing at the moment, as board games become an in thing?
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Aug 31, 2021 12:25
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Part of the problem is that Warhammer started getting playable again around the time Mk3 came out, and when GW games are good they suck all the oxygen out of the room, but the biggest issue is that PP basically made every bad decision possible in a row. They've had serious brain drain problems for a while, starting with the loss of DC (not necessarily a mistake on their part, as people leave jobs all the time, but clearly they're either not paying enough for top talent or their workplace environment is too toxic to retain good people, and from what I've heard it's a mix of both). The Mk3 rollout was very poorly handled, with the launch of all new, low-quality plastic battleboxes that didn't really appeal to existing players. Mk3 as a whole was launched in a very bad state, with Skorne being so bad that they had to rewrite the faction from scratch. Just as it was settling, the introduction of theme forces upended the entire apple cart. Following on from that the CID carousel, far from being the "periodic balance patches" people had been begging for since early Mk2, was just a succession of game-breaking uberbuffs that destroyed any concept of balance. Simultaneously they nuked their Press Ganger program and destroyed their relationships with retailers, so the structural support the game had enjoyed vanished just as the game got bad and needed it. There are more issues: enormous roster bloat (count how many individual unit entry options Cygnar has. I dare you), the extremely weird Grymkin release was a turnoff to some people, balance has always been for poo poo and that's sat uneasily alongside Warmachine's reputation as a "competitive" miniature wargame. They blew up their whole setting with the Infernal invasion, which hurt goodwill among players who genuinely were attached to the lore. It's hard to point to one thing. I was discussing this with TrevyTheGreat (formerly of Way of the Swan) at a 40k tournament the other day. We agreed that the biggest factor was that the CID system and theme forces combined made for a game with basically no build diversity; you played theme forces or you lost, and you played theme forces that included the newest CID models because they were consistently busted, and that was it. It's not that people are turning away from wargames generally; GW just posted their most profitable year ever. Warmahordes specifically died, and it didn't die of natural causes. It was killed through neglect and mismanagement. As a postscript, I've recently picked up Malifaux again. It's incredibly good right now. It's very easy to play online on Vassal, but we're rebuilding a New England Malifaux community. They also had a Mk3 launch that was a little rocky, but that was mostly availability issues, which are steadily picking up. The game is fun, it's balanced, it has deep and competitive gameplay, it's cheap as hell to start, all the rules and cards are free online, it has the best companion app I've ever seen in a wargame. Play Malifaux. DAD LOST MY IPOD fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Aug 31, 2021 |
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Aug 31, 2021 13:14
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:The Mk3 rollout was very poorly handled, with the launch of all new, low-quality plastic battleboxes that didn't really appeal to existing players.
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Aug 31, 2021 16:09
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smug jeebus posted:All of our long-time players picked up the new Mk3 boxes for the new warcasters. We even started an escalation league to coincide with their release, which died inside of a month once it became apparent how badly balanced those boxes were against each other. That may be unfair as the game isn't really designed for that point level, but nevertheless it was the beginning of the end for our local scene. The game might not be designed for the point level, but when you have complete control over what is in each of the armies you can (and should) be able to hand tune specific low point army lists for balance. That PP didn't actually do this for mark 3 is a sign of how little care they paid to the development. And on a tangent nuking the Press Ganger program was the one thing that wasn't PP's fault, and GW nuked the Outrider Program for the same reason. Someone somewhere caught on to the fact that they were actually doing work for the companies and being paid in goods rather than money. For good reason this is a no-no in employment law and the minis companies doing this were leaving themselves open to a significant liability.
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Aug 31, 2021 16:20
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smug jeebus posted:All of our long-time players picked up the new Mk3 boxes for the new warcasters. We even started an escalation league to coincide with their release, which died inside of a month once it became apparent how badly balanced those boxes were against each other. That may be unfair as the game isn't really designed for that point level, but nevertheless it was the beginning of the end for our local scene. It's 100% fair. Why would you release a bunch of boxes of armies for an army game that you can't play against each other? It's OBVIOUSLY what everyone's going to do, and it's utterly madness to not have them balanced against each other. I would say, it's almost worse again that they hadn't actually finished creating the rules for the mk3 stuff before it released, because it meant everyone went "oh, these boxes aren't balanced, but maybe at a higher point level... Oh no, it's not fixed there either" and so MK2 disappeared because obviously, it just got replaced, why would you go back? But also Mk3 didn't exist because it wasn't finished. You just had this limbo game for (more than a month) which is kind of always going to sink your game, even if you DID have community liasons
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Aug 31, 2021 16:26
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People really need to stop ragging on PP for closing their PG program. It was unfortunately inevitable but it really did close for the same reason the outriders program did way back when, and that's just taxes. They tried to keep it alive as long as possible. It's also got nothing to do with the lawsuit that WotC was dealing with at the time. It does suck, though. Those were both great programs.
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Aug 31, 2021 22:46
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S.J. posted:People really need to stop ragging on PP for closing their PG program. It was unfortunately inevitable but it really did close for the same reason the outriders program did way back when, and that's just taxes. They tried to keep it alive as long as possible. It's also got nothing to do with the lawsuit that WotC was dealing with at the time. It's not (unlike most of PP's misfortunes) something that's PP's fault. But it is one of the many assets PP had ten years ago that they no longer have when it comes to making Warmahordes (or even Warcaster) popular.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:24
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Following on from that the CID carousel, far from being the "periodic balance patches" people had been begging for since early Mk2, was just a succession of game-breaking uberbuffs that destroyed any concept of balance. Simultaneously they nuked their Press Ganger program and destroyed their relationships with retailers, so the structural support the game had enjoyed vanished just as the game got bad and needed it. Yeah this was so baffling - like a move to online cards and regular updates meant that surely they could look at their unit rosters and just regularly lower the cost of unused models and raise the cost of overused ones by a little every quarter. I think most players would be able to near-unanimously pick the top 3 and bottom 3 things in their faction, but yet the I also didn't like the way all the faction-specific weird abilities ended up being shuffled around - enliven showing up outside menoth feels bad for example. The other big failure was the proliferation of huge based models coupled with an inability to actually get them in a lot of places coupled with CID often setting them up as required centrepiece models in the subfactions - tridents, supreme guardians, etc.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:37
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Dead or not, I'll still be out here, painting my Cygnar boys. 
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Sep 1, 2021 01:59
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neonchameleon posted:It's not (unlike most of PP's misfortunes) something that's PP's fault. But it is one of the many assets PP had ten years ago that they no longer have when it comes to making Warmahordes (or even Warcaster) popular. I mean, I've been playing since Mk2 hit, so I feel you. I was heavily invested in my local scene and multiple former PGs in the area are close friends and roommates of mine. Honestly I'm still kind of bitter in part because we had some wildly toxic individuals in my area that were harassing people online all over the place.
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Sep 1, 2021 03:51
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I mean, sure, it’s definitely not like PP killed the program out of spite, but they did kill it and replace it with nothing. Why it happened is immaterial to the results of it happening, which were, well, bad.
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Sep 1, 2021 04:02
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The 'why' is a pretty big deal when that's what people were talking about. Like, what?
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Sep 1, 2021 04:18
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S.J. posted:The 'why' is a pretty big deal when that's what people were talking about. Like, what? I brought it up initially in the context of "why did warmahordes plummet in popularity" and in that context the demise of the PG program is absolutely a causal factor. sure, the program went away for understandable non-malicious reasons, but it going away did matter.
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Sep 1, 2021 12:56
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xiw posted:Yeah this was so baffling - like a move to online cards and regular updates meant that surely they could look at their unit rosters and just regularly lower the cost of unused models and raise the cost of overused ones by a little every quarter. I think most players would be able to near-unanimously pick the top 3 and bottom 3 things in their faction, but yet the I thought them getting me to buy an earthbreaker, waiting ages for the Dorf CID and then them dumpstering it was great. Don't get me wrong, I actually like how the dwarves turned out in the end, but man, that sucked.
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Sep 2, 2021 00:12
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So I just played against the post-CID Ret yesterday. In what world are Executioners considered to be balanced?
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Sep 3, 2021 10:28
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Hipster Occultist posted:So I just played against the post-CID Ret yesterday. In the world where they are 6 points for Def 12, 8hp, and with no ranged and minimal melee defensive tech. They're high priority glass cannons which means that if they get to do their thing they are superb - but they can be taken out before that point.
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Sep 3, 2021 20:46
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Jumping into the thread because someone mentioned warmahordes in the painting thread, but 100% the game died for me because of the heavy turn to themes. I have a pretty competitive set of players in Canada who were going to world's, winning tournaments etc and it very much became a game of everyone jumping to the latest overpowered hotness. If you wanted to just build a non-theme list you were at a 20% point disadvantage let alone all the other little benefits for going with a theme. That and I started looking into infinity which was really scratching that small model count Itch at the time pre-pandemic
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Sep 3, 2021 23:27
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Every time I see this thread title nowadays...
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Sep 3, 2021 23:55
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w00tmonger posted:Jumping into the thread because someone mentioned warmahordes in the painting thread, but 100% the game died for me because of the heavy turn to themes. Having played for a while, even when the new stuff isn't super strong in the meta, it tends to have a lot of people jumping on it if it's neat enough. But yeah, I feel you. Themes are my least favorite part of the game and they have been since Mk 2
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Sep 4, 2021 06:51
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I like themes when they do interesting things like let Skorne war locks take minion beats, but yeah most of them are boring and lazy.
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Sep 4, 2021 07:07
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w00tmonger posted:Jumping into the thread because someone mentioned warmahordes in the painting thread, but 100% the game died for me because of the heavy turn to themes. Pretty much. Before mk3 themes i had a bunch of models and could play a wide variety of lists. Postthemes I had 4 barely playable half factions and a big shopping list, or I'd be playing up to 21pts down.
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Sep 4, 2021 07:24
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Look in a game already set up and designed around themes it wouldn't be a big deal HOWEVER
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Sep 4, 2021 08:02
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