Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

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Takanago: Jun 2, 2007; You'll see...

so if the player wants to try to do a similar imperialist adventure, should it be reasonably straightforward so long as you (the player) arent as dumb as the british were, or should it be incredibly difficult because the people who run your country and your institutions would probably be as dumb as the british were

# ? Aug 30, 2021 16:14

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# ? May 30, 2024 13:12

Mans: Sep 14, 2011; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

DaysBefore posted:

Pretty sure they said there's unlimited money. No longer will the global economy collapse because some fatcats in Saskatoon own literally all the money in the world

but can i still destroy the world's economy buy recruiting a lot of infantry on day 1 of the game?

# ? Aug 30, 2021 16:24

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Takanago posted:

so if the player wants to try to do a similar imperialist adventure, should it be reasonably straightforward so long as you (the player) arent as dumb as the british were, or should it be incredibly difficult because the people who run your country and your institutions would probably be as dumb as the british were

If the British had been smart they would not have needed to go on an Imperial Adventure because they were trying to convince the ruler of Afganistan who was a young and remarkably reasonable fellow to like them instead of the Russians, but then made absurd demands and did not agree to give him anything he asked for. So in this specific case being smart would have meant a reasonably willing buffer client state instead of a hostile hellhole that needed to be invaded repeatedly to try to fix problems or rescue the prior group of brits that were in the middle of trying to fix problems. Problems that had no actual way of being fixed because of the hostility their prior fuckups engendered.

So no I dont think Vicky 3 can mimic that kind of imperialistic shenanigans.

# ? Aug 30, 2021 16:40

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

The Cheshire Cat posted:

The key thing is that if say, 1000 units of cement are produced, but only 100 units are actually demanded by the market, all 1000 units are still sold, with 900 of them just not going anywhere. There are no buyers for those 900 units, the money is just created and given to the people who sold them.

At least, this is my understanding based on how it was described in the dev diary - I may be misunderstanding it but they did definitely say that the money supply is not finite the way it was in Vicky 2.

The price is adjusted to match the supply of 1000 units though, right? Meaning they get paid a tenth per good for ten times as many goods. Which is functionally the same as 900 units getting destroyed before entering the market, except it's possibly easier to program the former?

The alternative is that demand can never be lower than supply, which clearly can't be the case, otherwise overproduction is literally impossible.

# ? Aug 30, 2021 16:40

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

So I dabble in making little board games I play with my friends and over the last year I've discovered the whole idea of not having stockpiles but more focusing on flows. Like instead of an iron mine producing 1 iron per turn and the player grabs a little red iron ore token to put into their personal pile, they just have an economy card and move a counter on "iron production" up by one. If they then build a steel mill, well then they move steel production up a slot but iron and coal down a slot.

It's solved so many long term issues with economic balance and it makes the economy so much more stable. There's certainly new challenges, but I've been surprised at how many things it solved. It also helps cut down on "processing power" which is quite a limited thing in board games, much less sitting and counting out little tokens and things. It's good stuff! Really looking forward to seeing how it all pans out in V3, but I got a good feeling.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Aug 30, 2021

# ? Aug 30, 2021 16:51

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Baronjutter posted:

So I dabble in making little board games I play with my friends and over the last year I've discovered the whole idea of not having stockpiles but more focusing on flows. Like instead of an iron mine producing 1 iron per turn and the player grabs a little red iron ore token to put into their personal pile, they just have an economy card and move a counter on "iron production" up by one. If they then build a steel mill, well then they move steel production up a slot but iron and coal down a slot.

It's solved so many long term issues with economic balance and it makes the economy so much more stable. There's certainly new challenges, but I've been surprised at how many things it solved. It also helps cut down on "processing power" which is quite a limited thing in board games, much less sitting and counting out little tokens and things. It's good stuff!

I, too, dabble in board game making and I am intrigued by this. Was there anything you read that set you up for trying that out? I feel like it has bearing on V3 too but I'm curious about the application to boardgames.

# ? Aug 30, 2021 16:55

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Another rad thing about board games is some of them even basically add in the concept of a "computer player" as an opponent. Like that one Island game where you're fending off colonizers. I thought that was neat because it felt like the enemy was getting a "turn".

# ? Aug 30, 2021 16:57

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

so a controller works like this (sort of, very barebone-ish)

Supply attends demand from the start. Each "ticket" sets the condition for the next one, so when order no.2 happens, it sets a buy of 20 units, but only 10 were offered (supplied) previously, so the price is adjusted to demand. Because we have a very stupid controller here, an intentionally obtuse one here to demonstrate things, the next ticket (no.3) attends demand while still at double the price. The next buy order only takes five because the price is unworkable, demand was adjusted because of insufficiency earlier because there was no steel available or any other reason you might think of. The last ticket tries to scale steel production back to demand, but maybe there's too much of an oversupply now: 15 units were supplied above demand during these 5 orders.

since it is the controller who takes up the complete transaction value, every order goes through in its entirety. The value of each ticket is indivisible. But while it ensures any transaction regardless, like in order no.4, it also conditions the next one: "At this price point I can only take up to 5 units of steel", and then moves to inform that it wants to get rid of the oversupply and so it goes

# ? Aug 30, 2021 17:36

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Raenir Salazar posted:

Another rad thing about board games is some of them even basically add in the concept of a "computer player" as an opponent. Like that one Island game where you're fending off colonizers. I thought that was neat because it felt like the enemy was getting a "turn".

Yes, the one I'm currently working and and been playing has the players start off controlling the major nations of an earth-like planet filled with NPC minor nations that have a very very simple "AI". Players can invade these minor nations, form defense pacts, free trade agreements (which can lead to economic imperialism) and all the usual lovely fruitful interactions between great and minor powers. There's a whole environmental and climate change track as well that's very hard to get a handle on without perfect cooperation between players, but the entire game is set up to strongly motivate players to keep up with each other (and constantly please internal factions) which means massive industrial expansion. The real meat of the game is getting a foothold in space, an incredibly expensive investment and mining asteroids and setting up more and more of your industry in orbit. There's also a little booklet of "threats" that can randomly trigger during the game, mostly space based threats that all have their own basic board game AI. Ancient robots in the solar system can re-activate and start causing trouble by wanting to mine all the best asteroids to make more robots. Tyranid style bio-monsters swarms can come sweeping into the solar system and go after any planetary body or space station with biomass. Alien raiders that come by periodically to extract tribute and destroy military infrastructure. Fun stuff like that.

There's also a whole class and economic system where every nation has a zero-sum balance of power between the classes which strongly affects how the population reacts to things. A happy population produces more political capital which is one of the currencies. But if your society has most all power given to the upper/capitalist class you'll gain political capital with awful labour laws and engaging in economic imperialism with minor nations and generally running your society in a brutal capitalist fashion. There's random event cards as well where there's a situation of some sort in your country and you need to choose how to respond and generally have a few options, but the results and costs are very dependent on your class power balance and general politics of your country, very much like events in CK3 that help reinforce what sort of character your are.

Stuff like:
A local corporation has been caught dumping toxic waste near a working class neighbourhood causing deadly health problems.
-Throw the book at the corporation: +1 political capital per working class power, +1 capitalist unrest
-Pay to clean up the site: -$100
-Ignore the situation: +1 political capital per capitalist class power, +1 working class unrest.

Class unrest is a whole other system that is tracked for each player, when it gets above a certain level you roll on a chart and can get all sorts of events like general strikes, riots, revolutions from your working class. These are countered by your police and military. So if you're running a brutal dictatorship you can simply try to ignore the plight of the working class by suppressing them with police, but if you're running a worker's paradise you can save a lot of money by not needing to maintain a massive oppressive police state. High capitalist unrest can be just as dangerous as they can cause all sorts of economic disruptions and even attempt a "business coup" situation and it's very difficult and disruptive to ever reduce their power in a society. Angry capitalists also have some sneaky events that increase working and middle class unrest but in a "false consciousness" that they control that can see mass reactionary movements form with the aim of increasing capitalist power or reducing working class power.

Thanks for coming to my board game ted talk

# ? Aug 30, 2021 17:38

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Raenir Salazar posted:

Another rad thing about board games is some of them even basically add in the concept of a "computer player" as an opponent. Like that one Island game where you're fending off colonizers. I thought that was neat because it felt like the enemy was getting a "turn".

Still lollin that Europa Universalis: The Board Game: The Video Game: The Board Game is a product you can buy now

# ? Aug 30, 2021 17:52

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

The board game has some interesting ideas but it's full potential is limited by it's medium. Paradox should think of readapting it into a video game.

# ? Aug 30, 2021 18:01

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Baronjutter posted:

Thanks for coming to my board game ted talk

I'd like to sign up to your newsletter and/or blog.

# ? Aug 30, 2021 18:08

Poil: Mar 17, 2007

When does the Europa Universalis series start and on which streaming service?

# ? Aug 30, 2021 18:23

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Still lollin that Europa Universalis: The Board Game: The Video Game: The Board Game is a product you can buy now

It wasn't actually the EU board game but a completely different product called Spirit Island now that I went and double checked the name.

# ? Aug 30, 2021 18:28

MatchaZed: Feb 14, 2010; We Can Do It!

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Still lollin that Europa Universalis: The Board Game: The Video Game: The Board Game is a product you can buy now

Not yet, thanks to production delays in China. But Soon (TM).

Now the problem is to find at least two other nerds to play it with, all my friends have moved away.

# ? Aug 30, 2021 18:50

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

It's not the same experience without the Falalala song.

# ? Aug 30, 2021 18:54

karmicknight: Aug 21, 2011

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Still lollin that Europa Universalis: The Board Game: The Video Game: The Board Game is a product you can buy now

it owns.

# ? Aug 30, 2021 20:40

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

Red Bones posted:

I don't know if it's been posted in this thread already and it's not on the topic of simulated economics, but Johan mentioned in a reddit thread that national flags are dynamic and use the same software that CK3 uses to handle coats of arms. So the number of stars on the US flag changes to match how many states you have, which is pretty neat.

Huh, we haven't revealed how flags work in dev diaries yet, I dont think. Where did Johan post about flags?

# ? Aug 31, 2021 10:51

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Ofaloaf posted:

Huh, we haven't revealed how flags work in dev diaries yet, I dont think. Where did Johan post about flags?

You fell for the oldest trick in the book. You've just confirmed that flags work in this game.

A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Aug 31, 2021

# ? Aug 31, 2021 11:16

Archduke Frantz Fanon: Sep 7, 2004

dynamic flags are as important to the vicky series as counters or incomprehensible economic systems so we just assumed

# ? Aug 31, 2021 12:46

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

A Buttery Pastry posted:

You fell for the oldest trick in the book. You've just confirmed that flags work in this game.

Honestly there's a whole spate of "devs said this" stuff I've seen around lately and I'm completely baffled as to why there's a glut of it or why half of it's incredibly wrong. Sure, there'll always be some of that stuff, but there's been a whole wave of it lately.

# ? Aug 31, 2021 12:59

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Lmao now a US world conquest is mandatory. You thought our flag was ugly now?

# ? Aug 31, 2021 13:02

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Quixzlizx posted:

From what I understand, the British tried to militarily prop up a puppet government without setting up colonial institutions (sounds familiar), so not Belgian Congo, or even British India/Ireland.

yeah basically the brits were insanely paranoid that the russians would somehow march an army through central asia into india despite the billion reasons why that's incredibly stupid, and afghanistan was one of the few places where doing that would be at least physically possible. so when there was a coup that replaced one dynasty with another, the new guy didn't immediately suck up to the brits and thus they assumed he was in bed with the russians, so they sent an army to restore the old king (who was a complete psychopath with a habit of hacking bits off his servants). between the restored king being super unpopular and the british garrison doing all the things you expect from a colonial occupation force, there was a huge riot in kabul that killed some of the leaders and forced the british back into their camp, where the dipshit in charge tried to negotiate his way out of it but just pissed everyone off until they kidnapped and murdered him. then the army gave up and tried to march home but got completely wrecked by partisans (not to mention the cold weather.) afterwards the british were so pissed off that they marched an army to kabul, raping and pillaging everything in their way, dynamited the central marketplace, and then marched back and left their puppet to get murdered

# ? Aug 31, 2021 14:51

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I, too, dabble in board game making and I am intrigued by this. Was there anything you read that set you up for trying that out? I feel like it has bearing on V3 too but I'm curious about the application to boardgames.

cole wehrle's an infamous traffic about the opium trade in china kinda does this, everything is just handled as income

# ? Aug 31, 2021 14:52

Beefeater1980: Sep 12, 2008; My God, it's full of Horatios!

Orange Devil posted:

You realize the mightiest 19th century imperial power did in fact attempt to do the whole imperialism thing in Afghanistan during the 19th century and it didn't work out very well, yes?

Outside of the mythology, the reality is that it didn�t go that badly after the initial defeat; the British went back to Afghanistan and razed parts of Kabul, got Akbar Khan murdered and then kept it as a quasi-neutral buffer stage for a while. Then came back again to make sure that their totally not in charge ~~rules~~ suggestions were being followed and Afghanistan wasn�t cosying up to Russia.

The UK basically did the usual indirect imperial control thing without formally taking over because nobody needs a landlocked central Asian highlands when goods are all moving over sea.

# ? Aug 31, 2021 15:27

Kaza42: Oct 3, 2013; Blood and Souls and all that

Ofaloaf posted:

Honestly there's a whole spate of "devs said this" stuff I've seen around lately and I'm completely baffled as to why there's a glut of it or why half of it's incredibly wrong. Sure, there'll always be some of that stuff, but there's been a whole wave of it lately.

I think a lot of what people attribute to devs outside of dev diaries comes from this post, even though it wasn't by a dev

# ? Aug 31, 2021 16:18

LonsomeSon: Nov 22, 2009; A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

Wiz comes to my house in the middle of the night, gives me sleep paralysis, and then explains all of his hopes and dreams for Vicky III to me while I focus the entire energy of my being on the ability to blink occasionally so my eyes don�t dry out.

# ? Aug 31, 2021 18:05

Communist Zombie: Nov 1, 2011

Since CK3 now has a CoA designer, and allegedly V3 is using the same/similar tech for flags, will there be a flag designer (free) dlc?

# ? Aug 31, 2021 18:08

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Communist Zombie posted:

Since CK3 now has a CoA designer, and allegedly V3 is using the same/similar tech for flags, will there be a flag designer (free) dlc?

This is VERY important to me.

# ? Aug 31, 2021 18:13

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Be pretty cool to have a flag designer for if you end up releasing some semi-independent colonial dominions

# ? Aug 31, 2021 18:19

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Lmao now a US world conquest is mandatory. You thought our flag was ugly now?

when you manifest your destiny a little too hard

# ? Aug 31, 2021 18:39

hot cocoa on the couch: Dec 8, 2009

Mantis42 posted:

when you manifest your destiny a little too hard

it's beautiful :patriot:

# ? Aug 31, 2021 18:41

everydayfalls: Aug 23, 2016

Mantis42 posted:

when you manifest your destiny a little too hard

19th century United States would never consider enough of the world �states� for that to happen.

neither would the contemporary United States

# ? Aug 31, 2021 19:20

Red Bones: Aug 9, 2012; "I think he's a bad enough person to stay ghost through his sheer love of child-killing."

Ofaloaf posted:

Huh, we haven't revealed how flags work in dev diaries yet, I dont think. Where did Johan post about flags?

It's a comment on this reddit post. Although the people in that post are saying it was already confirmed somewhere else, and I have no idea where that original source was.

Personally, I'm hoping the Union Jack gets more overlapping crosses on it whenever Britain annexes another country with a cross flag.

# ? Aug 31, 2021 19:32

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Red Bones posted:

It's a comment on this reddit post. Although the people in that post are saying it was already confirmed somewhere else, and I have no idea where that original source was.

This kinda sounds like how some news stories are created. You make up a fake story, have other people quote it, and then quote those as evidence since know you have a lot of corroborating sources.

# ? Aug 31, 2021 19:34