|
The other queen fan theory I liked was that she's a backup of the core part of the collective (or her segment of it as there could be multiple queens) Basically the queen's purpose is to restart things if things go very wrong for the Borg.
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 13:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 18:13 |
|
|
where do the borg come from anyway? did some sapient species borgify themselves?
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 13:49
|
|
|
There is extremely little info on the origins of the Borg; the Queen mentions in First Contact that at some point in the distant past they were normal organics, and we know they're from the Delta quadrant but that's about it
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 13:53
|
|
|
Oh poo poo we're getting a borg origins story
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 13:55
|
|
|
There is no canon explanation for the Borg. Their origins have been kept mysterious. According to Voyager the Borg themselves have lost knowledge of where they started. The ST novels have proposed a couple scenarios, the main one being nanotechnology on a decaying space station hospital built to treat plague sufferers incorrectly identifying the patients as part of the station which eventually evolved into the Borg.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 13:55
|
|
|
The plotline might have fizzled out but I'm not too concerned about them getting the portrayal of the Borg wrong - the first season restored the Borg to being incredibly traumatizing and permanently scarring after Voyager had an episode where characters voluntarily let themselves be assimilated because they'd had their anti-assimilation vaccine first, so I'm not too worried about them taking inspiration from that shows version of the Queen
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 13:58
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Oh poo poo we're getting a borg origins story Pretty sure that's what that season of DISCO was supposed to be
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 14:14
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:Pretty sure that's what that season of DISCO was supposed to be Oh yeah 'an AI that wants to conquer everything and a huge database researching biological life for hundreds of thousands of years, where could this be going?' But they veered away at the end. Actually 'the borg created themselves via time travel but then closed the loop by tricking the organics involved into covering up the events and then deleting their own memories to avoid a time agency spotting and fixing the paradox' would have been a decent story
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 14:23
|
|
|
I’m wondering if we’re getting a two season arc for Picard, because John DeLancie has already said that he’s in seasons 2 and 3, and they were filmed at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 14:30
|
|
|
Tbh, I'm not even that interested in their history, and I'm usually a sucker for world-building like that. It's just not relevant to anything about them as Trek characters. Picard had, I think, a decent and original way of looking at them at first, as far as the lingering trauma of xb's, etc. went. Too bad about that plot going nowhere.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 14:31
|
|
|
Whatever the Borg’s origin, I’d just want it to be completely independent of Starfleet or any character or concept we know. It doesn’t have to be some completely stupid “the Borg were started accidentally by Picard, who is also Michael Burnham!!!!” nonsense.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 14:34
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:Whatever the Borg’s origin, I’d just want it to be completely independent of Starfleet or any character or concept we know. It doesn’t have to be some completely stupid “the Borg were started accidentally by Picard, who is also Michael Burnham!!!!” nonsense. shhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHH the monkey's paw is listening
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 14:40
|
|
|
2022 is going to be a year of multiverse media: Into the Spider-Verse, Marvel's Spider-Man movie, Picard, and I think there was a fourth one? Anyway, Into the Spider-Verse excepted, I think that when a series or franchise is embarking on making What If? media, it's usually run out of ideas except for referencing the good times when it had good ideas. For example, Shrek IV after Shrek III was terrible. Multiverse episodes and time-traveling back to earlier in the series episodes are the 21st century's version of a clip show. Mokinokaro posted:There is no canon explanation for the Borg. Their origins have been kept mysterious. According to Voyager the Borg themselves have lost knowledge of where they started. I like there being multiple explanations toward the formation of the Borg. It makes them kind of like a sci-fi ghost story, which seems appropriate for space zombies. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Sep 3, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 15:04
|
|
|
I think STO implied that the same race that "updated" V'ger also created the Borg.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 15:07
|
|
|
galenanorth posted:2022 is going to be a year of multiverse media: Into the Spider-Verse, Marvel's Spider-Man movie, Picard, and I think there was a fourth one? You mean like Parallels?
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 15:14
|
|
|
I mean the overarching plot of Marvel phase 4 (At least) is looking to be multiverse shenanigans, but Spider-Man is THIS year
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 15:15
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:I think STO implied that the same race that "updated" V'ger also created the Borg. I know that there was a novel, The Return, ostensibly written by William Shatner (but “helped” by Garfield and Judith Reeves-Stevens) where this was explicitly stated, to the point that the Borg ignored Spock because they viewed him as already assimilated due to his mind meld with V’ger.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 15:17
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:I mean the overarching plot of Marvel phase 4 (At least) is looking to be multiverse shenanigans, but Spider-Man is THIS year It's also less about exploring "what-if" and more using it as blatant excuses to permit weird poo poo to happen. Like bringing in the Sony Movie Spider-Man villains with their original actors because why the gently caress not?  Hell, they actually HAVE a Marvel What-if series and it's about just twisting things as far as they can bend to make neat premises stand on their own, rather than the typical "We made your life super-different from this one choice. Now work to put things back  " premise.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 15:39
|
|
|
Neddy Seagoon posted:It's also less about exploring "what-if" and more using it as blatant excuses to permit weird poo poo to happen. Like bringing in the Sony Movie Spider-Man villains with their original actors because why the gently caress not? Yeah they've gained a lot of value out of establishing 'Marvel Cinematic Universe' as a grand overarching continuity of stories but now we want to bring in more of our IP and the continuity element of what we've built means that we either have to pretend the X-Men have been around all along and nobody noticed, or write a way to bring them onto the screen that's consistent with the rules we've established. e: it's almost the inverse problem that Star Trek has, in that the the IP holders and fandom desperately want everything to fit together into one big continuity, but the reality is that each show can just be watched as an entirely independent take on the star trek concept (and I think it's actually better to watch them that way). Alchenar fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Sep 3, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 15:47
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:Whatever the Borg’s origin, I’d just want it to be completely independent of Starfleet or any character or concept we know. It doesn’t have to be some completely stupid “the Borg were started accidentally by Picard, who is also Michael Burnham!!!!” nonsense. For a while in Picard season 1, it sure looked like the big reveal was going to be that the Romulans had created the Borg umpteen thousand years ago which is why they hate robots now. Which would have been dumb, but at least it would have brought story elements together instead of just dropping them and hoping we don't notice.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 16:01
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Yeah they've gained a lot of value out of establishing 'Marvel Cinematic Universe' as a grand overarching continuity of stories but now we want to bring in more of our IP and the continuity element of what we've built means that we either have to pretend the X-Men have been around all along and nobody noticed, or write a way to bring them onto the screen that's consistent with the rules we've established. I wouldn't be surprised if the X-Men get a similar treatment; "Yes, the X-Men films have existed in their own little continuity for the past twenty-odd years....AND WE JUST PUNCHED A HOLE RIGHT INTO IT FROM THE MCU WITH SCIENCE!]"  Powered Descent posted:For a while in Picard season 1, it sure looked like the big reveal was going to be that the Romulans had created the Borg umpteen thousand years ago which is why they hate robots now. Which would have been dumb, but at least it would have brought story elements together instead of just dropping them and hoping we don't notice. Nah, I think the better angle would be that the feared robots were The Borg. Or at least a forerunner to them at the time the warning was made. Just have that portal open and a goddamn Borg Cube come through would just be terrifying in its own way and utterly drop all self-righteous pretenses the androids had because oh gently caress, we all hosed up bad, fuckfuckfuck. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Sep 3, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 16:02
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:3 armed guy species was captain of the Farm ship in season one. Ah I forgot the spooky ship captain was a three armed alien, and missed the other one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 16:06
|
|
|
With the origins of the Borg, I prefer the idea that it wasn't some kind of accident, it was just... people, trying to make life better and improve themselves, giving themselves some minor artificial upgrades, low level technotelepathy, and over time everything just very gradually got more and more extreme until at some point their civilisation and individuality was entirely lost.Neddy Seagoon posted:Nah, I think the better angle would be that the feared robots were The Borg. Or at least a forerunner to them at the time the warning was made. Just have that portal open and a goddamn Borg Cube come through would just be terrifying in its own way and utterly drop all self-righteous pretenses the androids had because oh gently caress, we all hosed up bad, fuckfuckfuck. One of the funner bits of imagery of the season was when the two tiny little ships are having a swoopy dogfight and then the cube just plows out a conduit right on top of them out of nowhere and practically runs them over. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Sep 3, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 16:22
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:Okay I laughed at every single time they said Mugato/Gumato/Magoto/Gamutu differently I hope they reference the hilarious spread of ways they pronounced "Terran" in the first dark-side DS9 episode. Tehran, Terron, Tea-Ron, Tear-in, Tare-en etc
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 16:55
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:With the origins of the Borg, I prefer the idea that it wasn't some kind of accident, it was just... people, trying to make life better and improve themselves, giving themselves some minor artificial upgrades, low level technotelepathy, and over time everything just very gradually got more and more extreme until at some point their civilisation and individuality was entirely lost. Trek is a bit inconsistent on whether drones that are separated from the collective become robots following their last directive, individuals desperate to return to the warm embrace of the hive mind, or terrorised trauma victims. I definitely prefer the version of the borg where being assimilated is simultaneously a horrifying suppression of individual consciousness and a blissful euphoric togetherness (the cult analogy is often lost) and that survivors struggle with reconciling those two elements of the experience.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 17:00
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:I hope they reference the hilarious spread of ways they pronounced "Terran" in the first dark-side DS9 episode. Tehran, Terron, Tea-Ron, Tear-in, Tare-en etc It always bugs me that they can't get everyone on the same dang page with how to pronounce Bajor and Bajoran
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 17:02
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:With the origins of the Borg, I prefer the idea that it wasn't some kind of accident, it was just... people, trying to make life better and improve themselves, giving themselves some minor artificial upgrades, low level technotelepathy, and over time everything just very gradually got more and more extreme until at some point their civilisation and individuality was entirely lost. This is the canonical origin of the Cybermen from Doctor Who
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 17:04
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:It always bugs me that they can't get everyone on the same dang page with how to pronounce Bajor and Bajoran It bugs me that when I actually see that word it sounds more like "mejor," a soft mexican j sound. Actually Mejor would be a good name for a race of aliens.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 17:21
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:It bugs me that when I actually see that word it sounds more like "mejor," a soft mexican j sound. Actually Mejor would be a good name for a race of aliens.  Mayor Major Major of Bajor
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 17:25
|
|
|
It's only in TNG that they say Bajor differently. It's Bah-johr there. I think on DS9 it's consistently Bay-jor. Bajoran always sounds the same. There's a little variation on how soft the J sound is but that's acceptable.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 18:07
|
|
|
Let me tell you a little story about the goa’uld…
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 18:11
|
|
|
roomtone posted:It's only in TNG that they say Bajor differently. It's Bah-johr there. I think on DS9 it's consistently Bay-jor. Bajoran always sounds the same. I promise you that both Sisko and Dukat and at least one guest actor say it the TNG way at least once poo poo, Dukat does it in the final couple episodes after being on the show for 7 years
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 18:19
|
|
|
Phylodox posted:Let me tell you a little story about the goold…
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 18:51
|
|
|
rear end in a top hat, I was just gonna do that. RIP Don S. Davis. Anyway, back to the Borg Queen I try to view her as a gestalt consciousness for the Borg instead of a singular leader, the entire Collective expressed in one being—and it turns out that when you wind every thread of thought in the Collective into a single twine the consciousness you get a really petty and incompetent vamp. Who knew?
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 18:55
|
|
|
roomtone posted:Bajoran always sounds the same. Anyone else find it a little weird how close "Bajoran" sounds to "pejorative"? Mostly what bothers me about it is that after all these years I have yet to make a decent pun out of that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 19:41
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:rear end in a top hat, I was just gonna do that. RIP Don S. Davis.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 19:50
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Turns out that the Collective Fucks The Borg were always horny, they just needed to assimilate a few humans first in order to properly express it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 19:54
|
|
|
TNG also called them "the Bajora" several times, I think they even do it in DS9 a couple of times?
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 19:56
|
|
|
Snow Cone Capone posted:TNG also called them "the Bajora" several times, I think they even do it in DS9 a couple of times?
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 20:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 18:13 |
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I think it’s only during their first appearance Yeah, the only time I recall hearing it was in "Ensign Ro". Though to be fair they say "Bajora" like once every 3 milliseconds in that episode, so it really sticks in the mind.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 20:18
|
|