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Ultima66 posted:On Daybound being the keyword that also starts tracking Day/Night: The keyword implies that the card only stays in that form during the day. This is why they could have also had another keyword, like "Temporal" (this has different connotations but I'm sure they could come up with a word with better connotations) that starts tracking Day/Night, and have the werewolves have Temporal + Daybound on front side and Nightbound on back side. The design complication is it's another keyword to make players learn, but I don't personally see this as being a huge problem because of the clunkiness of writing out the mechanic already. WotC's solution seems significantly less complicated tbh. Obviously they have the advantage of being able to test and use all their resources to make it as communicable as possible so it's not a fair comparison, but I don't think your method streamlines things as much as you think.
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Sep 3, 2021 22:41
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AngryBooch posted:https://twitter.com/MagicEsports/status/1433903828366028801 needles always been on the edge of maindeckable, and with angel book coming back in two weeks I would highly recommend you elevate where on that line you put needle
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Sep 3, 2021 22:42
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Ultima66 posted:On Daybound being the keyword that also starts tracking Day/Night: The keyword implies that the card only stays in that form during the day. This is why they could have also had another keyword, like "Temporal" (this has different connotations but I'm sure they could come up with a word with better connotations) that starts tracking Day/Night, and have the werewolves have Temporal + Daybound on front side and Nightbound on back side. The design complication is it's another keyword to make players learn, but I don't personally see this as being a huge problem because of the clunkiness of writing out the mechanic already. Turning it from a status to a permanent means each player could have one. Is it night on my side of the field but day on yours? What happens when a permanent changes control? What happens in a three player game if the controller of the Day leaves the game? It's owner? This is why using a status to track the time makes more sense than an actual object with properties. Well it's still transform, it's just daybound bakes it into the rules of the game instead of printing the text on the card.
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Sep 3, 2021 22:45
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Shrecknet posted:so I guess no colorless LD like field of ruin then. So not faithless looting? 
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Sep 3, 2021 22:46
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Despite the wordiness of its mechanics, I think daybound/nightbound is actually very grokable.
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Sep 3, 2021 22:47
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There's a lot of stuff that would be cool to see in Magic, but Magic "can't" do under the rules, at least not without awkward wording. Day/Night is one of them. Whenever I see something like this I imagine it's down to a clash in ways of thinking at R&D; there's the people that want to do this cool mechanic and want to see the rules change to allow it, and there's people that are rules purists and want the mechanic to bend to fit the rules of the game instead. Maybe the idea of an outside-the-game double-sided Day/Night game object that no player controls was too far out there, I don't know.
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Sep 3, 2021 22:51
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Standard was the most boring format possible for the longest time because it was nothing but Yorion piles or Embercleave decks
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Sep 3, 2021 23:01
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Ultima66 posted:On Daybound being the keyword that also starts tracking Day/Night: The keyword implies that the card only stays in that form during the day. This is why they could have also had another keyword, like "Temporal" (this has different connotations but I'm sure they could come up with a word with better connotations) that starts tracking Day/Night, and have the werewolves have Temporal + Daybound on front side and Nightbound on back side. The design complication is it's another keyword to make players learn, but I don't personally see this as being a huge problem because of the clunkiness of writing out the mechanic already. I don't think "This mechanic is too complicated, let's make three (??) more keywords and an entirely new object to simplify it." is as elegant as you think. Day/Night mechanic is incredibly simple in execution (we handled it fine a decade ago) and the only difference is now a few more things care about it. Much like Mutate, once people actually play with it, it'll be fine. Don't be scared of all the words.
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Sep 3, 2021 23:02
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LifeLynx posted:There's a lot of stuff that would be cool to see in Magic, but Magic "can't" do under the rules, at least not without awkward wording. Day/Night is one of them. Whenever I see something like this I imagine it's down to a clash in ways of thinking at R&D; there's the people that want to do this cool mechanic and want to see the rules change to allow it, and there's people that are rules purists and want the mechanic to bend to fit the rules of the game instead. Maybe the idea of an outside-the-game double-sided Day/Night game object that no player controls was too far out there, I don't know. Yeah but why does it have to be an object? What functional difference is there if day night is an object vs a status? Other than you can't print a card called "Seize the Day!" with the text "Gain control of the day"
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Sep 3, 2021 23:20
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That Pithing Needle is the most squicked I’ve been at a card art in this game since Thought Lash when I was 10 years old
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Sep 3, 2021 23:26
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HootTheOwl posted:Compare: The Zombie lord always gets an immediate effect before the attack step and is a tribe that naturally gets wider. I don't think it's a useful comparison or that we have any idea which will see more play.
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Sep 3, 2021 23:37
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HootTheOwl posted:Yeah but why does it have to be an object? What functional difference is there if day night is an object vs a status? Because the game is played with objects? Card shaped ones. Players have a hard time remembering all aspects of the game state so we use cards.
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Sep 3, 2021 23:38
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In a set where there’s a mechanic involving making loads of zombie tokens I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt that a small buff to them all is still quite good, in limited at least
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Sep 3, 2021 23:47
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I know peoples' eyeballs are kinda sliding right past this one because of the wall of text but this is an extremely solid 3mv mana rock. Possibly the best one they've printed since Coalition Relic.
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Sep 3, 2021 23:48
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I think card text bloat is obviously real, and you'll see even streamers who play every day make mistakes because they forget or don't read all of it, but the day/night thing seems like it'll probably be fine to me.
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Sep 3, 2021 23:50
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The Shortest Path posted:I know peoples' eyeballs are kinda sliding right past this one because of the wall of text but this is an extremely solid 3mv mana rock. Possibly the best one they've printed since Coalition Relic. You might be right, but who plays 3CMC rocks? Not good enough for 60 card formats, and basically anyone can run any number of good 0-2 CMC rocks in EDH. I don't know why they keep making them tbh. I'd rather them just make slightly less good 2CMC rocks.
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Sep 3, 2021 23:55
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fadam posted:I'd rather them just make slightly less good 2CMC rocks. by increasing the cmc by 1
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Sep 3, 2021 23:58
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HootTheOwl posted:Compare: that's power, not toughness. Also there seems to be many ways to go wide with zombies. That's not awful for an immediate effect for 2 mana. The vampire has a higher ceiling, but it's also conditional.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:03
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fadam posted:You might be right, but who plays 3CMC rocks? Not good enough for 60 card formats, and basically anyone can run any number of good 0-2 CMC rocks in EDH. I don't know why they keep making them tbh. I'd rather them just make slightly less good 2CMC rocks. Coalition relic floats in and out of modern. Currently out but it saw play in titan builds pre field/Druid printings and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it again in the future This is obviously different because you can’t go straight to 6 the turn after you play it. Just don’t besmirch coalition relic
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Sep 4, 2021 00:12
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I think “whenever day becomes night or night becomes day” is hard to parse because it’s supposed to be read: “Whenever day becomes night or night becomes day” But it’s easy to misread as the headache inducing: “Whenever day becomes night or night becomes day” It is not clear the word “or” starts a new condition – rather than modifying the one you’re reading – until you have read the whole phrase, and if you don’t realise that then “day becomes night or night” is a headfuck. I’ve no idea if that’s a resolvable issue in templating but that’s where I think the issue lies
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Sep 4, 2021 00:12
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Framboise posted:that's power, not toughness. Also there seems to be many ways to go wide with zombies. That's not awful for an immediate effect for 2 mana. The vampire has a higher ceiling, but it's also conditional. It's a 2/3. They're both incomplete as lords.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:13
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fadam posted:You might be right, but who plays 3CMC rocks? Not good enough for 60 card formats, and basically anyone can run any number of good 0-2 CMC rocks in EDH. I don't know why they keep making them tbh. I'd rather them just make slightly less good 2CMC rocks. True, sadly.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:16
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Time posted:Coalition relic floats in and out of modern. Currently out but it saw play in titan builds pre field/Druid printings and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it again in the future Okay fair enough if they ever ban the dryad I'll amend my post.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:23
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HootTheOwl posted:It's a 2/3. They're both incomplete as lords. why are you completely ignoring the 1 point of immediate power the zombie lord has vs the conditional counter of the vampire lord
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Sep 4, 2021 00:26
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like in a lot of situations the vampire is just a 2/2 menace with no effect bc your opponent has mulltiple blockers, while the zombie is always on and always effecting any present or future zombies
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Sep 4, 2021 00:27
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vegetables posted:I think “whenever day becomes night or night becomes day” is hard to parse because it’s supposed to be read: 🎵You know the day becomes the night Night becomes the day Tried to run Tried to hide Flip on through to the other side Flip on through to the other side Flip on through to the other side, yeah🎵
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Sep 4, 2021 00:28
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HootTheOwl posted:Compare: You can have a lot more zombies than you can have vampires
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Sep 4, 2021 00:41
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mandatory lesbian posted:why are you completely ignoring the 1 point of immediate power the zombie lord has vs the conditional counter of the vampire lord mandatory lesbian posted:like in a lot of situations the vampire is just a 2/2 menace with no effect bc your opponent has mulltiple blockers, while the zombie is always on and always effecting any present or future zombies Just so we're clear, is it your opinion that the zombie is better than the vampire?
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Sep 4, 2021 00:42
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HootTheOwl posted:Just so we're clear, is it your opinion that the zombie is better than the vampire? Honestly, maybe. Vampire when it goes off is obviously a lot stronger, but even a bad lord effect on a 2CMC body in a tribe that has a ton of token support could be a lot better if the support is there. Getting something worse for free is sometimes better than getting something better that you have to work for. fadam fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 00:44
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This seems hot, and for Historic/Pioneer/Modern this would get me brewing vampires in RB instead of monoB or WB. Seems to have a lot of potential for explosive plays, which is probably the deck's main strength, and I was already considering it for the Vampire Dragon from Kaldheim. I already play Viscous Conquistador in historic and play it T1, attack into nothing or a 1/x blockerT2 and it becomes a 2/3 when this comes down. There is the issue of allied mana support in Historic and Pioneer mind.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:52
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HootTheOwl posted:Just so we're clear, is it your opinion that the zombie is better than the vampire? not at all, i havent seen enough of the set to say which is better. but i am criticizing your evaluation method, which i believe is limited and incomplete
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Sep 4, 2021 01:02
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altho, in a vaccuum yeah id much rather have the zombie lord. if we assume the lord is the only card in hand, and my field is a few relevant creatures, i can play zombie lord pre-combat and attack for big damage while in the same situation id have to play the vamp lord post-combat to get any benefit
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Sep 4, 2021 01:05
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mandatory lesbian posted:like in a lot of situations the vampire is just a 2/2 menace with no effect bc your opponent has mulltiple blockers, while the zombie is always on and always effecting any present or future zombies Theyre also signpost cards, they're supposed to tell newer players how to build for the color. It's telling you to go wide and aggressive, no point putting an evasion on it unless they're going to be more enablers.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:06
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 Weird tax effect. Very narrow, but ultimately puts them down a mana while you stay even on cards if they do have to cast the named card.   This feels like a pretty good utility/glue creature.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:14
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i really like curse of silence if for nothing but it just being super wierd
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Sep 4, 2021 01:16
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curse of silence, naming your commander
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Sep 4, 2021 01:19
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It's notable that the zombie lord is solid on defense and the vampire lord does fuckall on defense. Though +1/+0 is kind of meh for a lord buff so I don't think either of them are great lords or anything. It is nice that vampire lord won't get you hosed on combat math when the opponent removes it mid combat.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:21
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Surprised not to see talk of how good this seems with Lurrus? Definitely seems worth a shot in BW auras which run Claim/Fame now.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:30
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flatluigi posted:curse of silence, naming your commander You could do that, or just cast Drannith Magistrate.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:43
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flatluigi posted:curse of silence, naming your commander So I spend a mana in order to make one opponent spend 2 mana at their convenience, and until they do, I'm down a card. Sounds sweet!
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Sep 4, 2021 01:46
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