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jivjov posted:There was a big ol huge schism at the Wook regarding listing gender identity for characters, and the head guy in charge was a big chud and fought it so hard that the greater Fandom hosting network got involved and kicked a couple people out. The official Twitter account for wookiepedia was compromised for a bit when one of the ousted mods changed the password, but they got that back too I used to be heavily involved in Wookieepedia back in its early years, and left because it started being taken over by some extremely toxic people, so it was one of the least surprising things to learn that the admin mainly behind the deadnaming business was one of the same ones from back then. I don't think TFN quite deserves that rep, though, although again I'm not exactly unbiased as I used to be a mod there as well. It had its circle of lovely right wing people, but they weren't really dominant and often got called out. One in particular ended up leaving because he was really into Mandalorians and got mad when Traviss made some of them gay. e:fb on Wookieepedia.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:30
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i'm shocked that the author who loves writing about Hard Men making Hard Choices is right-wing
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Sep 4, 2021 00:31
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Am I correct in assuming there was a push to clean up people’s dumb theory crafting at some point? I remember way back when people were just throwing their personal theories about canon inconsistencies into articles like it was going out of style.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:34
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Arquinsiel posted:
 Casimir Radon posted:At this point in time I don’t know that there’s any characters with ‘non-standard’ gender identities. Could be wrong though. It does smack a little bit of that BioWare guy getting in trouble for saying there were no gay people in Star Wars. Taka from Last Shot is non-binary, as are Terec and Ceret from the High Republic comics. (I lowkey don't like them being held up as super awesome representation and getting the Pride Month comic cover though, since their pair-bond is presented as a species thing, and I get a little antsy when queer folks identity is tied in to alien-ness) Edit: I forgot I got in a fight with a podcaster about Taka once. They spent a big chunk of a review of Last Shot going on about how they were just so confused about Taka using a singular they pronoun, and they they just didn't like how a new character was introduced as being non-binary without taking the time to explain to the audience what that meant and how he had to go look it up on his own. I think he even went so far as to suggest that Taka should have been an alien instead of a human so their non-binary-ness "made sense" jivjov fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 00:41
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Casimir Radon posted:Am I correct in assuming there was a push to clean up people’s dumb theory crafting at some point? I remember way back when people were just throwing their personal theories about canon inconsistencies into articles like it was going out of style.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:46
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Lord Hydronium posted:Yeah, it was pretty freeform at the start, and in the first few years a lot of rules started being formalized like "no fan theories". Unfortunately I think that kind of set it on the road to what it became, as rules started piling up and the admins started become extreme sticklers about them, even when it didn't make sense by the spirit of them. Ostensibly, that's what the deadnaming incident was about - the rules said authors had to be listed by the name they were credited as, and by gum, they had to stick to them, because that's The Rules. Obviously that was just an excuse, but I think that the previous codifying of so many rules and procedures helped make excuses like that possible. Credited works to someone who's changed their name is always a rough situation. I'm kinda curious now what the official scholarly standard is. I'm hopeful it's to just reference the author's current name and let people figure it out, but knowing academia, it probably isn't that nice.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:49
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jivjov posted:Taka from Last Shot is non-binary, as are Terec and Ceret from the High Republic comics. (I lowkey don't like them being held up as super awesome representation and getting the Pride Month comic cover though, since their pair-bond is presented as a species thing, and I get a little antsy when queer folks identity is tied in to alien-ness) I didn’t care for a lot of the dialogue Wendig wrote for Sinjir. It just smacked too much of “HEY GUYS CHECK OUT MY GAY CHARACTER!” There was some overly crass thing he wrote about sucking the armor off a hull that I couldn’t believe made it past an editor.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:50
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jivjov posted:Credited works to someone who's changed their name is always a rough situation. I'm kinda curious now what the official scholarly standard is. I'm hopeful it's to just reference the author's current name and let people figure it out, but knowing academia, it probably isn't that nice.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:52
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can't believe chuck wendig is a lovely writer
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Sep 4, 2021 00:52
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Casimir Radon posted:Ok, I haven’t read any of those. Which author transitioned? https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Robin_Pronovost
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Sep 4, 2021 00:52
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I thought I recognized your username, Hydronium. I used to be on TFN as well. Place turned into a shitshow around the time season 2 of The Clone Wars started airing and I ended up blowing off from the TV forum with a few others thanks to the flame wars between EU readers and show watchers. But even then I'd say the Lit forum was the worst spot. Felt like there was a lot of bad blood already there from the fights Traviss would get into with members that was still festering pretty hard when I signed up so the forum always felt tense and waiting to explode.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:52
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Casimir Radon posted:What I’ve seen Wikipedia do is “Elliot Page (Credited as Ellen Page)” or something of that nature. And of course chuds like to latch on to any "plausible" "just trying to be accurate" excuse to deadname. So something that's just factual like that turns into a big debate and boy howdy being queer sucks sometimes and I'm glad the only thing I'm credited in under my own deadname is a poetry book from 3rd grade
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Sep 4, 2021 00:54
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jivjov posted:Oh poo poo, thats even worse There's also Keo in Squadrons. I never realized their helmet colors also match that of the NB flag  
Cross-Section fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 01:02
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Arc Hammer posted:I thought I recognized your username, Hydronium. I used to be on TFN as well. Place turned into a shitshow around the time season 2 of The Clone Wars started airing and I ended up blowing off from the TV forum with a few others thanks to the flame wars between EU readers and show watchers. But even then I'd say the Lit forum was the worst spot. Felt like there was a lot of bad blood already there from the fights Traviss would get into with members that was still festering pretty hard when I signed up so the forum always felt tense and waiting to explode.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:05
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Cross-Section posted:There's also Keo in Squadrons. I never realized their helmet colors also match that of the NB flag gently caress 1) how did I forget Keo and 2) their helmet loving RULES! I feel like I made the wrong choice in character names when I was renaming myself
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Sep 4, 2021 01:08
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Lord Hydronium posted:Yeah, never really ventured into the TV forums so I can't speak much for them; I was in the movie forums a lot while the prequels were going on and then mostly switched to Lit after they ended, and I wouldn't say it was all that bad. There were certainly a lot of hot button topics (Traviss, LOTF, Vergere, Jacen, the size of Super Star Destroyers...you know, important stuff), and the era when Traviss was posting on there was probably one of the more contentious ones, but I had a lot of good conversations on there too, talking about the newest Legacy or KOTOR issue or speculating on who was going to die in the books or whatever. Around the middle of Fate of the Jedi was when I kind of dropped off both there and Star Wars in general, until mostly Rogue One brought me back. I'm surprised you even made it into Fate of the Jedi. I was so disgusted by Invincible and after Imperial Commando 501st was a resounding "meh" I dropped the EU entirely. I read a review of one of the FOTJ books where a jedi did a Kano heart rip fatality with the Force, saw it was a Troy Denning novel and concluded I'd made the right decision. The EU between 2008 and 2012 was such a wounded beast of bad novels, mediocre LucasArts games and way, way too much cynicism. For every Shadows of Mindor you had nine miserable Crucibles.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:15
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Lord Hydronium posted:Yeah, it was pretty freeform at the start, and in the first few years a lot of rules started being formalized like "no fan theories". Unfortunately I think that kind of set it on the road to what it became, as rules started piling up and the admins started become extreme sticklers about them, even when it didn't make sense by the spirit of them. Ostensibly, that's what the deadnaming incident was about - the rules said authors had to be listed by the name they were credited as, and by gum, they had to stick to them, because that's The Rules. Obviously that was just an excuse, but I think that the previous codifying of so many rules and procedures helped make excuses like that possible.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:21
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Arc Hammer posted:I'm surprised you even made it into Fate of the Jedi. I was so disgusted by Invincible and after Imperial Commando 501st was a resounding "meh" I dropped the EU entirely. I read a review of one of the FOTJ books where a jedi did a Kano heart rip fatality with the Force, saw it was a Troy Denning novel and concluded I'd made the right decision.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:33
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Arc Hammer posted:I'm surprised you even made it into Fate of the Jedi. I was so disgusted by Invincible and after Imperial Commando 501st was a resounding "meh" I dropped the EU entirely. I read a review of one of the FOTJ books where a jedi did a Kano heart rip fatality with the Force, saw it was a Troy Denning novel and concluded I'd made the right decision. The latter has a scene I think is actually really good. Shortly before Heir to the Empire the Falcon encounters the Chimera over Tatooine. Han attempts to show off how he’ll just dump some cargo as a bribe and they’ll be on their way. Assuming it’s just another warlord in command. The bribe is immediately blown up, and they end up in a tense situation because of Han’s ego. I’ll give him credit for that one, but I hate just about everything else he’s written.
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Sep 4, 2021 03:07
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tatooine ghost is pretty good. it's unusual for an EU book in that it's set in the bantam era but written to link to the prequels, and also unusual in that han and leia's relationship is front and center without being dysfunctional, weird, or rapey
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Sep 4, 2021 03:18
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Lord Hydronium posted:I used to be heavily involved in Wookieepedia back in its early years, and left because it started being taken over by some extremely toxic people, so it was one of the least surprising things to learn that the admin mainly behind the deadnaming business was one of the same ones from back then. Haha, same here. I think I left in 2008 or so. When I saw what happened with the admin earlier this year, I was not surprised in the least. I think TFN has a lot of similar problems with its administration, maybe not politically (though I think a lot of them were basically performatively liberal just because you're "supposed" to be a liberal if you like Disney Star Wars) but at least when I used to post there, it definitely felt like there was an old boys club who followed a lot of unwritten rules that they wielded with very arbitrary power. I remember the one guy, Admiral Nick I think, who was creepily into Ackbar, had a habit of shutting down threads he thought were rival to his pet threads, and also had really thin skin. Great combination! Lord Hydronium posted:I don't think TFN quite deserves that rep, though, although again I'm not exactly unbiased as I used to be a mod there as well. It had its circle of lovely right wing people, but they weren't really dominant and often got called out. One in particular ended up leaving because he was really into Mandalorians and got mad when Traviss made some of them gay. Hahahaha, I remember that guy. As I recall he was a hard core Catholic fascist. Jazerus posted:tatooine ghost is pretty good. it's unusual for an EU book in that it's set in the bantam era but written to link to the prequels, and also unusual in that han and leia's relationship is front and center without being dysfunctional, weird, or rapey Agree, it's not only the best Denning book but actually a good book overall. Also interesting in that it's a Del Rey book that was also a link between two Bantam books (Courtship and the Thrawn Trilogy).
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Sep 4, 2021 05:15
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A while back I went and read Spore, one of two Galaxy of Fear books I missed as a kid. It wasn’t great but it was a kids book and I probably would have enjoyed it at the time. One of the issues was that unlike the earlier books which had Palpatine’s secret Projec Starscream to bind them together, the later books just have the Arrandas bumbling into Goosebumps scenarios for no particular reason. Immediately after finishing Spore I ordered The Hunger, the other book I had never read, and also the last book in the series. I was amused by the first book and pretty eager to see what the end of the series was like. Well it was terrible, and not in a fun way. Which kind of killed the urge to write up my experience. So, because the Arranda kids destroyed Project Starscream and keep wrecking Imperial ambitions everywhere they turn up Vader decides to put a price on their head. Going so far as to bring Boba Fett in for an in-person meeting to make sure he knows how important it is that he catch a couple of preteens and their uncle. Fett catches up with them on Nar Shaddaa, but Tash manages to clown on him hard with her developing force powers, allowing them to escape, but their ship is destroyed in the process. They manage to land an escape pod on Koaan which houses an Imperial research academy. Where they attempt to search the records for a surveyed but uninhabited world to hide on. The one they choose happens to be Dagobah. While they’re pulling the record the academy is raided by a team of smugglers lead by Platt Okeefe, who I guess was created by WEG, but I’d never heard of her before. Both groups need a place to lie low, and the Arrandas lack a ship, so they decide to team up and head for Dagobah. On landing they accidentally partially sink the ship, and get attacked by local wildlife. Then one of the smugglers accidentally kill one of the descendants of a lost survey party when he greets them by jumping out of the swamp at them. His companion understands that it was an accident and carries the body back to their village. After being stranded on a hostile swamp planet for roughly 40 years after all their parents died the survivors are all skeletally thin, but seem nice enough. There are several misadventures where more of the smugglers die to the wildlife or go missing. The survivors explain about “The Imp”, a small green creature that they’re frightened of. It’s Yoda by the way, but Zak is a dumbass and thinks Imp is short for Imperial. All the while the survivors keep trying to feed Zak some stew, and he almost does several times but things keep happening. It is plainly obvious from the first time this happens that they are cannibals, and the stew is made of the dead and missing. But the author continues to basically scream it at you for most of the book. The survivor’s village is within walking distance of Yoda’s hut. So apparently he just stood by for 20 years and watched these guys eat each other from his porch. Zak later discovers that Boba Fett tracked them to Dagobah, but has vanished. Actually he’s tied up in the village. It seems force sensitive preteens aren’t the only people who can get the drop on Fett. Malnourished idiots with no combat training can do it too. Also he finds one of the smugglers gagged and missing limbs, so I’ll give it some credit for really committing to concept. Yoda eventually decides they’ve done enough cannibalism, and uses the force to teach them that their way of life is wrong. Yoda then informs Zak that he is Force sensitive like Tash, and can stop being jealous of her. Platt transports the survivors off-world with some vague idea that the Rebellion might take them in, which seems incredibly naive. Fett manages to escape and Vader reassigns him to hunt for the Millennium Falcon instead, setting up events proceeding The Empire Strikes Back. It’s implied that Yoda mind tricked him into forgetting about him. The Arrandas make some noise about potentially joining the Rebellion themselves so they’re not just aimlessly running from the Empire, but the series abruptly ends right there. Excepting the Jedi Prince books this is probably the worst YA SW book I’ve ever read. There was never any really mystery about what the survivors were doing. Even a 10 year old is going to figure it out right away. But the author continues to hit you over the head with it several more times, long after it’s lost any effectiveness. Then there’s Yoda happily ignoring all of this until the Arrandas show up. They could have set it 100 miles from where he set up shop so he had to make an actual trip to do something about it, but no. Platt lands within walking distance of the village, which is within walking distance of Yoda’s hut. Three separate groups had an entire planet to land on and all came to relatively the same place. On a side note I checked to see if this was one of those instances that Lucasfilm later retconned to have been one of Fett’s imposters, and didn’t see anything to suggest that. At some point they decided that he showed up in too many stories, so certain appearances were retconned into being one of a few different guys who went around impersonating Fett. This one might have slipped their mind, and canon Fett got beat by children and dumb cannibals.
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Sep 4, 2021 05:47
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Lord Hydronium posted:One in particular ended up leaving because he was really into Mandalorians and got mad when Traviss made some of them gay. Lmao
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Sep 4, 2021 06:18
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Casimir Radon posted:TFN seemed like it had a lot of hyper-religious dorks who saw the world through a pretty whacky lens. I don't know about hyper-religious, but one of the TFN weirdoes I knew from back then suddenly dropped off the face of the earth one day, only to reappear 7 years later after spending time in jail for crossing state lines and sneaking into a 14 year old girl's house to gently caress her.
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Sep 4, 2021 06:49
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Chuck Berry posted on TFN?
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Sep 4, 2021 08:52
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Arc Hammer posted:A 30 year old woman grabbing a 14 year old boy's penis while he's strapped down to a torture rack absolutely is rape. Robot Style posted:I don't know about hyper-religious, but one of the TFN weirdoes I knew from back then suddenly dropped off the face of the earth one day, only to reappear 7 years later after spending time in jail for crossing state lines and sneaking into a 14 year old girl's house to gently caress her. I'm tired of these Star Wars
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Sep 4, 2021 09:10
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Rebel Stand was pretty good! Han and Leia kinda didn't have much to do in this book but at least their relationship seems to be in a good spot again? So there is that at least! I'm a sucker for any scene with Wedge in it so reading the ending got me super pumped to see X-Wing Jesus himself just go HAM and do his thing was great  With the way the book and the characters kept describing Lord Nyax I was picturing more of a Dark Jedi Mr.X or Nemesis in my head but once the fighting actually started i went "OH IT"S LIGHTSABER KNEEPAD MAN!" and i kinda couldn't take him very seriously after that revelation hit me. Doesn't help he's yet another character from yet another book that i've not read before so all i could was just enjoy the image of Jedi throwing chunks of buildings at each other and getting flashbacks to Yoda v Palpatine in the senate chambers throwing the hover podiums at each other. Could you read Dark Journey on it's own without having read Traitor? I kinda want to wait and continue reading in order but sadly the order got delayed until the 15th so i will have wait a bit longer before getting all the juicy plot revelations
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Sep 7, 2021 00:20
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I kind of wish they’d put out Children of the Jedi on unabridged audiobook. It’s not a good book but I’d like to revisit the insanity without putting any effort into it.
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Sep 7, 2021 00:29
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The Shame Boy posted:Rebel Stand was pretty good! Han and Leia kinda didn't have much to do in this book but at least their relationship seems to be in a good spot again? So there is that at least! I'm a sucker for any scene with Wedge in it so reading the ending got me super pumped to see X-Wing Jesus himself just go HAM and do his thing was great Dark Journey and Traitor are two sides of the same coin. They both follow a Solo child following the Voxyn Mission, and end roughly around Destiny’s Way beginning.
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Sep 7, 2021 00:45
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Er, i mean't Destinys Way, i already read Dark Journey! me dumb  But knowing that info then, i think i will just wait. Gotta get the full picture before moving on!
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Sep 7, 2021 03:08
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Speaking of the solo kids. I feel the need to share the story here. I'm trans and my new name is Jaina. Sourced very specifically from the Young Jedi Knights books I loved so much as a kid, side benefit of her being the only solo kid to live to the end of the Legends EU. I had a bad dysphoria day today and pulled up Heirs to the Force on my kindle for some low effort comfort food reading and uhhh wow that's kinda weird having my own chosen name being a protagonist. Fun though
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Sep 7, 2021 04:08
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Rogue Squadron is out on Audible now.
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Sep 7, 2021 15:54
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I met someone named Jaina once, I never asked but I feel like she had to have been named after the EU character. She was just the right age to have been born a few years into the Bantam era. I also know there are a few people who run Star Wars fan sites who named their sons Anakin, and, uh.....
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Sep 7, 2021 19:01
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It’s not like they didn’t know how he was going to turn out. The first mention of the name is in ROTJ, and in reference to him having become Darth Vader. I remember in the late 90s my mom pointing out a baby announcement in the local paper with the name Anakin. Somebody wanted their nerd cred.
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Sep 7, 2021 19:12
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Chairman Capone posted:I met someone named Jaina once, I never asked but I feel like she had to have been named after the EU character. She was just the right age to have been born a few years into the Bantam era. i always feel bad for kids named obvious popular fantasy Sci-Fi names or naming them after your waifu or whatever. "meet your new classmate, khaleesi'Zorah vas Hufflpuff"
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Sep 8, 2021 12:28
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i always feel bad for kids named obvious popular fantasy Sci-Fi names or naming them after your waifu or whatever. "meet your new classmate, khaleesi'Zorah vas Hufflpuff" I picked my own name, and I'm a whole rear end adult, so my opinion maybe doesn't count for a whole lot, but at least some people can exercise restraint and make their pop culture references subtle. Like, I see the dentist for the first time since starting my transition today, and unless the receptionist is also a big nerd, "Jaina" isn't going to set off alarm bells as NERD NAME! Keep it subtle, or confined to a middle name, and it's much less obnoxious than most.
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Sep 8, 2021 13:55
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Jaina is a rad name on it's own, normal sounding yet unique to anybody who isn't a huge dork who read too much star wars in the 90s. And those people would just get it, I think. She's a badass throughout the books.
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Sep 8, 2021 14:25
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Animal Friend posted:Jaina is a rad name on it's own, normal sounding yet unique to anybody who isn't a huge dork who read too much star wars in the 90s. And those people would just get it, I think. She's a badass throughout the books. Most of my friend group asked if it was a Warcraft reference :V I learned there's a character named Jaina in that property too
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Sep 8, 2021 14:48
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jivjov posted:I picked my own name, and I'm a whole rear end adult, so my opinion maybe doesn't count for a whole lot, but at least some people can exercise restraint and make their pop culture references subtle. Like, I see the dentist for the first time since starting my transition today, and unless the receptionist is also a big nerd, "Jaina" isn't going to set off alarm bells as NERD NAME! Anyone who gets it will love it, honestly. Also, congrats on your transition! (Is that the right thing to say? Sorry if it's not. Coming from a place of well intentioned ignorance here.)
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Sep 8, 2021 14:49
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jivjov posted:Most of my friend group asked if it was a Warcraft reference :V I learned there's a character named Jaina in that property too I always assumed that the Jaina Proudmoore character in Warcraft was named after Jaina Solo. There are so many references to other franchises in Blizzard games, it just made sense.
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Sep 8, 2021 15:47
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