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OwlFancier posted:Other than politics I don't actually think I have anything I would consider to be a strong component of "my identity" actually Politics is important because it's a subset of ethics and having the wrong kind makes you an arsehole. That isn't true about other aspects of identity, which ideally shouldn't matter at all.
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Sep 4, 2021 17:26
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i base my identity mostly on my taste in real ale and preferences re: peanuts
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Sep 4, 2021 17:30
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Oh dear me posted:Politics is important because it's a subset of ethics and having the wrong kind makes you an arsehole. That isn't true about other aspects of identity, which ideally shouldn't matter at all. Yeah I think that is about what I was arriving at. Like politics is just the practical application of the things I think are really important, like the whole way I understand the world and as you say, ethics and poo poo. Almost the definition of things I think really matter. It's integral to how I understand and treat other people, my job, my tastes, everything really. I assume that necessarily "britishness" must also inform some of that and so must "european-ness" because both of those things decribe the environment in which I live and have lived, but to the extent that is true I don't think it is the sort of thing that law changes can alter? And it's definitely not the sort of thing that I would go around thinking about.
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Sep 4, 2021 17:33
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And also gently caress the 2014 no voters, stupid cunts. https://twitter.com/UK_Together/status/506899714923843584
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Sep 4, 2021 17:34
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OwlFancier posted:I don't know that I would count being british as part of my identity. I mean yes obviously it is a valid descriptor of where I was born and where I live but I don't think of it the way I think about my political positions, or even things like sexuality, which I think is mostly an identity because everyone else makes it one and because it ties in with my political positions. I think being British is part of my identity. Not the flag-shagging, spite-ridden, xenophobic Britishness more evident in the last decade in particular, but the irreverant, cynical, certain sense of humour not understood by many, and the requirement that respect should be earned not be an automatic right aspects of Britishness. And yes adaptibility, surprisingly, the way British are able to adapt to different situations. These are more noticeable if you live abroad for sometime in a country where they are not the norm. If you live in a country where the President or other 'top' person is respected purely because of their position rather than any innate deservingness, where people brown nose those in high positions (ok this does happen a certain amount in this country, moreso in the last few years), but generally until recently the British were quite irreverant about authority. Re the adaptation - knowing 'expats' from various countries living in Egypt, the British - other than those who insisted on living in the ex-pat ghettos - adapted much better than the Americans for example in coping with the huge differences in life there than in the home country.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:12
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That... does seem kind of like a process of deselecting all the people who do not conform to that concept though? Like, we live in a literal monarchy, we literally killed tens of thousands of people because people could not adapt to the idea that diseases are dangerous and we might have to not go to the horse races. What you describe does not appear to be "britishness" but rather a set of traits that are present to a greater or lesser degree across some people in many countries, but if a huge section of the population manifestly cannot demonstrate them it seems difficult to view them as some sort of "national character"
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Sep 4, 2021 18:26
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Not that this applies to any poster here - A huge problem I’ve always had with the respect is earned mentality is that right wingers use it as an excuse to be absolutely horrible to kids. “I’ll trust you if you prove you can be trusted” and all that poo poo.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:33
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I think being British is part of my identity.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:38
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learnincurve posted:Not that this applies to any poster here - A huge problem I’ve always had with the respect is earned mentality is that right wingers use it as an excuse to be absolutely horrible to kids. “I’ll trust you if you prove you can be trusted” and all that poo poo. And right wingers love muddying those to say things like "if you respect me, I'll respect you" when they mean "for me to respect you as a human being, you need to first respect me as an authority."
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Sep 4, 2021 18:50
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learnincurve posted:Not that this applies to any poster here - A huge problem I’ve always had with the respect is earned mentality is that right wingers use it as an excuse to be absolutely horrible to kids. “I’ll trust you if you prove you can be trusted” and all that poo poo. I guess I should caveat or clarify what I mean: everyone deserves respect as an individual but being respectful of someone purely because they are in a position of authority when eg the current government have definitely proven that they are not worthy of respect as the holders of those positions. (And I confess I would have great trouble respecting them as individuals too.)
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Sep 4, 2021 18:52
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I guess I should caveat or clarify what I mean: everyone deserves respect as an individual but being respectful of someone purely because they are in a position of authority when eg the current government have definitely proven that they are not worthy of respect as the holders of those positions. (And I confess I would have great trouble respecting them as individuals too.) Counter point to the british not respecting on the basis of authority: This loving island loves the monarchy.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:59
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Miftan posted:Counter point to the british not respecting on the basis of authority: This loving island loves the monarchy. I don't know how deep that goes. When Lady Di died, the monarchy came pretty close to being despised until they turned their response around.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:09
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How is Britane formed. How country get Brexit
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Sep 4, 2021 19:10
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Arrested. these days
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Sep 4, 2021 19:10
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The monarch is very carefully presented as having no temporal power, regardless of reality, so it's all just flag waving and cheers. I suspect that'll change rapidly if Charles takes a more active role. People love the appearance of anti-authority, Boris Johnson, the language of brexit, having enough of experts, but any genuine threat to authority gets snubbed out.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:11
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Guavanaut posted:The monarch is very carefully presented as having no temporal power, regardless of reality, so it's all just flag waving and cheers. I suspect that'll change rapidly if Charles is seen to take a more active role. Fixed that for you, the royals already take a pretty active role with "advising", and especially when it comes to their own business/property.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:12
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Active as in public, rather than meeting with advisers who meet with advisers and things get done that only ever get reported in dry legal journals that nobody reads. If he starts addressing the nation with his own brain thoughts directly that's different.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:15
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If charles starts psychically projecting then yes we have problems.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:16
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Guavanaut posted:The monarch is very carefully presented as having no temporal power, regardless of reality, so it's all just flag waving and cheers. I suspect that'll change rapidly if Charles takes a more active role. People love the facade of anti-authority in the "doesn't care about bureaucratic red tape or those little Hitlers in the Town Hall" sort of way, while being absolutely in the thrall of people who speak with the right accent and and spout the right rhetoric. That's why you see people going on about being against EU bureaucracy while salivating over the idea of the police being able to beat the crap out of whoever they feel like.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:24
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Yeah the British public are pretty good/rude about it, it's the media and government figures who make a virtue of obsequiousness But the media has an enormous impact on the way people think so it ends up bleeding through
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Sep 4, 2021 19:56
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i don't like the queen, i think she is a mad old bag
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Sep 4, 2021 20:12
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I don't know how deep that goes. Also the whole thing is the monarchy don't actually rule. They don't have authority (influence is not actually the same thing). It would be very different if they did.
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Sep 4, 2021 20:54
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I mean they have the authority to nonce as much as they like without repercussions.
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Sep 4, 2021 20:57
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crispix posted:i don't like the queen, i think she is a mad old bag i didn’t mind her because i thought she was just a figure head, then it turns out at the very least she’s the head of a huge tax dodging landlord empire
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Sep 4, 2021 21:15
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For anyone asking, here's the good two candidates for the Green leadership election (it's a two-person role, so they run in pairs): https://twitter.com/amelia_womack/status/1434232780918042628?s=21
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Sep 4, 2021 21:55
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feedmegin posted:Also the whole thing is the monarchy don't actually rule. They don't have authority (influence is not actually the same thing). It would be very different if they did. You would be horribly surprised if you lived near or on any land they control. Where I am is in the middle of a trifecta of aristocracy owned land and they control everything, Renishaw refused to have the supertram or HS2 near their land so the plan is to divert it through pretty much the only decent council flats left for single people in the country, so people playing golf don’t have to hear trains going slowly along a maintenance line. Chatsworth are bastards who want to build 10k houses on working farmland near a council estate without any roads, schools, dentists or doctors and the Dukeries just owns your soul along with the entirety of northern Nottinghamshire. Including, land, housing, all local businesses and Worksop.
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Sep 4, 2021 22:10
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The monarchy not having authority is one of those national myths that is obviously false on the face of it unless you've been brought up here
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Sep 4, 2021 22:19
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The monarchy have no authority, but do get to veto legislation that they don't like and lobby for legislation that they do like. And also be literally above the law. And also be the biggest landlord that owns basically everything. And not pay tax (well pay a bit, but the rest goes to the caymans). keep punching joe fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 22:40
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Also the Prime Minister regularly reports to them and apparently these conversations have no bearing whatsoever on administration!
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Sep 4, 2021 22:41
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The podcast did a really good episode on this particular aspect of the royals, if you want something to listen to.
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Sep 4, 2021 22:45
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Even if you were to take the position that they have no institutional power (which I don't) you still have the problem that they are absolutely loving loaded and people still defer to them because they're royal. Like even if on paper they are not actually henry the 8th, they still have a tremendous amount of power and evoke a nauseating amount of deference from brits when the correct attitude should be to spit every time you see one.
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Sep 4, 2021 22:48
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The monarchy are big ticket social influencers with contacts in high places, vast amounts of private property, and a deal with the UK government worth millions to them each year. If, rather than comparing that with the rulers of literal autocracies, they were compared with literally anyone else the madness of it all would be transparent.
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Sep 4, 2021 23:18
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keep punching joe posted:And also gently caress the 2014 no voters, stupid cunts. The SNP white paper worked on the presumption that oil prices would rise and maintain at $100/barrel, and they still spent the money several times while also putting it in a sovereign wealth fund. Not to mention that the rUK could at the time have vetoed Scotland's EU membership - it would have been horrific optics, but we're talking about Tories here so it can't be ruled out. More likely Cameron would have used it to wring a few concessions out of the EU, but that's moot because he was still going to lose the Brexit referendum. Voting No in 2014 can only be considered stupid if you knew then that Brexit was going to happen. I don't think at that point Cameron had even formally promised to hold an EU referendum, and even if he had you'd also have to assume that he would win an absolute majority in 2015 (which even he didn't expect).
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Sep 5, 2021 00:47
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quote:
Source: Heil/money/markets/article-9957527/Retail-giant-Marks-Spencer-warns-suppliers-EU-border-chaos.html Can the UK can just nix the import controls if it wants (obviously not the export ones into the EU)?
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Sep 5, 2021 00:49
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Yeah like you wouldn't argue that some prick like Alan Sugar doesn't hold any power or authority, he's minted and he's a massive landlord. Owns tons of property. It's the same for the royal family even if you stripped away all of their titles and political influence even if they officially "have no power". The queen alone is worth something like £300m and that's just her personal "private" wealth.
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Sep 5, 2021 00:52
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Jedit posted:I don't think at that point Cameron had even formally promised to hold an EU referendum, and even if he had you'd also have to assume that he would win an absolute majority in 2015 (which even he didn't expect). If people had voted on Maastricht, Amsterdam, Nice, and Lisbon then it would have either brought things to a head sooner or changed the perception of the UK's place in Europe or at least allowed some kind of renegotiation of the the framing in the popular discourse as happened in Ireland. Instead there was 24 years of the EU being this kind of foreign thing that just came and stole Grate Britane, which attracted endless promises without delivery that there'd be some grand referendum on it (hi Tony). As you say even Cameron was hoping for another coalition that he could bargain away the 2016 one on, but that was just the last of several being floated. So gently caress the government in Whitehall and Westminster, they were the thing that came and stole the attachment to a functioning society.
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Sep 5, 2021 00:58
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I'm pretty sad about losing Europe because the UK games industry (and most creative industries) is insanely inhospitable to those with less experience. There is a near insurmountable wall where you can spend upwards of 10 years never seeing an opportunity for promotion or change as it always goes to the mates group. My company back then went as far as to block promotions out of QA as they were "losing the good people." you get one guess who did the most overtime for the least pay. When you're 25 and a free dominos pizza is equivalent to half a days wages it seems like a good deal! I saw the way this was going and after trying the indie startup route for a bit and literally living in a basement part time helping my bosses dad write adverts for Italian shoes I took my gcse German and just hosed off to Hamburg. I had an interview lined up and just never left. I didn't have to. Just went to the town hall with my job offer, various bits of paperwork and registered. I spent 6 years swanning around Europe working for a host of companies that nobody has ever heard of. I made a host of games that never saw the light of day and worked on other people's live games trying to fix their vanity projects. I was promoted for good work, made lots of contacts, and came back honestly a good bit better at my job, but it was nothing I couldn't have learnt here. I was just given the time of day and had a huge amount of access to other job opportunities so when one ended I could move into the next, each time in a different country. It's like a different industry coming back to the UK 6 years later with the amount of offers and helpful folks, people who seemingly deserve it getting promoted, way better sense of belonging and teamwork. Except its not. Its always been terrible and still is. Just from a perspective of privilege it feels fine. Spending time to sit down with younger juniors in the cafe or go and talk to QA, they're just as hosed over as I felt a decade ago. Except they don't have any way out anymore. There are 27 viable countries with an absolute shitload of job opportunities for younger and less experienced people that have just loving gone. Now it's be in the mates group or get hosed again unless you already have the experience and can get a company to sponsor a visa. The route I took to get where I am has vanished and it loving sucks because I really think exposure to other cultures like that makes you a better person in a multitude of ways. There is a disturbing overlap here between the people who have never left Yorkshire and the people who decry all salad as rabbit food, or who engage in casual misogyny/racism/transphobia, or who are absolutely enraged at the thought of any change as it might "rock the boat" of their comfortable middle management career. It feels like that's the root of the Liberal. Don't change or challenge anything because it might rock the boat. And rocking the boat and getting noticed might reduce the gravy train. gently caress them all.
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Sep 5, 2021 03:32
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Announce a policy that may slightly favour the less well off rather than wealthy pensioners? Can’t see it myself from Keith 
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Sep 5, 2021 03:54
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OwlFancier posted:If charles starts psychically projecting then yes we have problems. GET OUT OF MY HEAD, CHARLES
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Sep 5, 2021 06:02
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Ghost Leviathan posted:GET OUT OF MY HEAD, CHARLES what, you’re not into overhearing his dirty thoughts about camilla?
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Sep 5, 2021 06:14
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