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Which should I play as for the Generals Challenge? [Pick 3] This poll is closed. |
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| Laser |
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60 | 14.74% |
| Air Power |
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34 | 8.35% |
| Super Weapons |
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49 | 12.04% |
| Tanks |
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26 | 6.39% |
| Infantry |
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39 | 9.58% |
| Nuclear Power |
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68 | 16.71% |
| Toxin |
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48 | 11.79% |
| Stealth |
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42 | 10.32% |
| Explosives |
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41 | 10.07% |
| Total: | 189 votes | ||
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"Final Justice" isn't really all that more ridiculous than "Enduring Freedom", an actual name used around then. To be honest, I think the question of whether the game is attempting to satirize the Americans as well runs up against Poe's Law.
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Sep 3, 2021 19:00
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I just finished GLA7 and I vote the neutral train as MVP for every map it shows up on, that thing just eats unitsFangz posted:I thought air power was kinda bad in this game though, since AA is basically everywhere. In RA2 rocketeers had some effectiveness since you had to build specific AA units that were pretty bad at everything else. In Generals stuff like Gatling tanks are just standard units you'd build lots of anyway. there's definitely ways to mitigate this (and the US faction pretty much holds every way to do it) but you bring up a good point that not only is there a lot of AA, there's a lot of gun-based AA which, because this is a videogame, means strong and powerful, especially compared to missile-based. Really one of the most clear-cut examples of how games have to balance gameplay first and just hope the player never thinks about "does this make sense?"
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Sep 3, 2021 19:25
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Psion posted:I just finished GLA7 and I vote the neutral train as MVP for every map it shows up on, that thing just eats units I swear I was incapable of not parking my mass of units right on the tracks and then going elsewhere on the map just long enough to have them run down. That train gives no fucks.
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Sep 3, 2021 19:51
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This LP is convincing me to play this game again, because in spite of all of its problems (the cringeworthy and dated tone, the obviously rushed aspects of it, the at times uninspired level design, the complete lack of story, and the fact that EA had to go and EA the poo poo out of Command & Conquer), the mechanics under the hood are definitely S-tier, and China as the lumbering brute faction and GLA as the hit-and-run tricksy faction are among the best of those two RTS archetypes ever done. USA seems kinda boring on the surface, but if you dig a little deeper they end up being the funkiest of the factions in this game, and as was already mentioned it’s the first RTS faction I can think of with an honest-to-god Air Force that actually behaves like an Air Force with an actual unique purpose rather than a combination of nearly-useless novelty units and units that are effectively ground units that just happen to float and can only be damaged by attacks that happen to be labeled “anti-air”
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Sep 4, 2021 02:34
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Sylphid posted:Redeye gave a nice rundown of why the USA actually works as a pretty cool, versatile faction, but another understated advantage they have is their dozer moves differently than China's. Because it's wheeled instead of moving around via treads, it's a lot more useful in crushing infantry that are trying to pester it. China's dozer has to stop, ponderously turn and drive in a direction to get to a new place. USA's dozer can just keep going. This is something that took me way to long to notice back in the day. Also allows the US Dozer to make easier turns and is just a tad more responsive to movement in general. Redeye Flight posted:Other C&C games will get more wacky, or wilder, or more off the rails. I am using delusional very specifically here. Man, this campaign is gonna go places. I'll go more into detail when we hit mission 4. Had to double check which mission that is and ohhh yeah... The US campaign is a wild, wild ride...
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Sep 4, 2021 04:57
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UED Special Ops posted:This is something that took me way to long to notice back in the day. Also allows the US Dozer to make easier turns and is just a tad more responsive to movement in general. There are three missions in the USA campaign that really just emphasize what you're getting here, and fortuitously enough, they're all perfectly spaced as 1, 4, and 7. I can't wait.
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Sep 4, 2021 10:59
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Working through some audio recording for the LP, came across this in the credits. What the gently caress is crunch and why do people put up with it?
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Sep 4, 2021 16:55
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Jobbo_Fett posted:
I always thought it looked like these guys were wearing a little crown in the picture.
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Sep 4, 2021 17:01
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Working through some audio recording for the LP, came across this in the credits. Go watch some Jim Sterling videos, prepare to get mad.
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Sep 4, 2021 17:47
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By popular demand posted:Go watch some Jim Sterling videos, prepare to get mad. Pass 
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Sep 4, 2021 18:07
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Ralepozozaxe posted:I always thought it looked like these guys were wearing a little crown in the picture. i'm gonna choose to see it this way forever now, thank you for this gift
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Sep 4, 2021 18:43
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Ralepozozaxe posted:I always thought it looked like these guys were wearing a little crown in the picture. You're not alone. What is that supposed to even be? A propeller?
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Sep 4, 2021 18:52
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USA 02: Treasure Hunt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZCoVXXgYEc USA 02: Treasure Hunt  Now that the US has committed its forces in the fight against the GLA in the Middle East, massive numbers of our air forces has been conducting strikes against any and all enemy targets in our area of operation. This has also led to increased losses from enemy fire and maintenance. Press on, we cannot allow the GLA any breathing room!   Apparently a tiny place on the map of Yemen, there's nothing about the map that would indicate its near water.  Location: Al Hanad, Yemen Objective: Rescue the downed American Pilots Author's note: Another example of an expanding map, this mission hints at an unused feature in the game. Oh, and we get one of the best units in the game, Col Burton!   Col. Burton RANGE: Medium ARMOR: Human WEAPON: OICW COST: 1500 An expert in covert operations, Colonel Burton can wreak havoc against enemy infantry of all types. Armed with a sniper rifle*, knife, and remote or timed demo charges, Colonel Burton's stealth training allows him to move invisibly across almost any terrain. Author's Note: Best DPS, best anti-building ability, stealthed, can cross almost any terrain. Burton is OP.  Paladin Tank RANGE: Medium ARMOR: Tank WEAPON: 120mm Ramjet-assisted Cannon COST: 1100 An advanced prototype, the Paladin tank fires a jet-assisted shell and automatically targets enemy missiles with its small, powerful laser. Still in development, the laser has a slow rate of fire, so the Paladin should be used with other anti-air defensive systems. Author's Note: In sufficient numbers, you can be immune to certain base defenses. They don't feel super durable, and their high cost can be prohibitive when adding in drones.  Pathfinder RANGE: Long-Extreme ARMOR: Human WEAPON: H&K MSG90 COST: 600 These advance scout for the USA infantry are lethal to enemy infantry. With a long-range sniper rifle, a Pathfinder can take out an enemy soldier before he is even seen. When stationary, Pathfinders enter stealth mode. Author's Note: If only they didn't cost a General point to get. Powerful under the right circumstances, just make sure you don't get run over by vehicles!  Cold Fusion Reactor ARMOR: Structure COST: 800 POWER USAGE: +5 PURPOSE: Provides power. The power plant of the USA side, a Cold Fusion Reactor produces five units of power. Author's Note: Not much to say about this. It's safer than the Chinese Nuclear Reactor.  Command Center ARMOR: Tough Structure COST: 2000 POWER USAGE: 0 PURPOSE: Allows for base building, produces Construction Dozers The entire base of operations for the USA side grows from the Command Center. From the Command Center comes your fleet of Construction Dozers, which you use to build and repair. Additionally, the Command Center controls the USA radar systems and Spy Satellite. Author's Note: Needed for General powers, it is similar to the Chinese version in almost all respects.  Supply Center ARMOR: Structure COST: 2000 POWER USAGE: 1 PURPOSE: Drop-off point for Supplies. The Supply Center dispenses Chinook helicopters to retrieve supplies from the nearest depot. While Chinooks are vulnerably to anti-air fire, they can cross any terrain, including mountains, to keep your Supply Center full of resources and money. Author's Note: Not sure why the manual states "resources and money". Oh well...  Barracks ARMOR: Structure COST: 600 POWER USAGE: 0 PURPOSE: Trains infantry units. All infantry personnel are created in the Barracks. Injured Rangers, Missile Defenders, and even Colonel Burton can return to their Barracks to get healed. Author's Note: Similar in almost all respects to the Chinese/GLA versions.  War Factory ARMOR: Structure COST: 2000 POWER USAGE: 1 PURPOSE: Produces vehicular units. In addition to building all USA vehicles, the War Factory can repair vehicles, too. Damaged vehicles can enter the repair bay one-by-one for repairs. Author's Note: Similar in almost all respects to the Chinese/GLA versions.   Pathfinder FACTION: USA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Unlocks ability to train Pathfinders Ability to produce the Pathfinder at the Barracks Author's Note: See above notes on the Pathfinder. Useful if you ever find yourself against a heavy infantry-focused opponent.  Paladin Tank FACTION: USA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 1 PURPOSE: Unlocks the ability to produce Paladin Tanks Ability to build the Paladin Tank at the War Factory. Author's Note: See remarks on the Paladin Tank above. At least its just a Rank 1 commitment.  Control Rods FACTION: USA COST: 500 PREREQUISITE: Cold Fusion Reactor PURPOSE: Increase power output. Control Rods applied to any Cold Fusion Reactor increase its output by 100% Author's Note: You'll need these sooner or later, so keep them protected!  Flashbang Grenades FACTION: USA COST: 800 PREREQUISITE: Barracks PURPOSE: Allows Rangers to use the Flashbang Grenade ability. Developed at the Barracks, the Flash Bang grenade is an effective weapon of the Rangers against enemy infantry. It's not effective against vehicles. Author's Note: Effective is an understatement! It does require the Ranger to switch from his Assault Rifle, but the AoE effect of the Flashbang is worthwhile to use, just tough to micromanage. Aftermath: The pilots have been rescued and are looking forward to some well-earned R&R. Good work, General! Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 19:05
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Pathfinder is basically always worth burning a Generals Point on. One of the only real counters to masses of Humvees / Missile Defenders is massing rocket infantry, and the Pathfinder completely shuts that plan down. Not to mention you can shut down Workers by planting them near unclaimed supplies, detecting stealth units (and killing them instantly if they're infantry), and being fairly cheap for how much utility they offer. Easily the best Generals Point-exclusive unit in the game and one of the best in the game, period. One of China's biggest weaknesses is Jarmen Kell, and, in general, quickly killing infantry at range. Jarmen can easily pop from a Tunnel, take out an Overlord, then duck back in. US doesn't have that weakness with Pathfinders; soon as Jarmen uncloaks and Pathfinders are around, he's meat.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:12
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Oh man, Burton. Not only does he counter the majority of any faction's roster in a 1v1, I remember when he could stab planes when they weren't in the air, but that got fixed.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:21
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THE BAR posted:Oh man, Burton. Not only does he counter the majority of any faction's roster in a 1v1, I remember when he could stab planes when they weren't in the air, but that got fixed. Yeah, instead he just shoots them 
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Sep 4, 2021 19:30
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Posted on youtube but also realised you probably had a thread here, the comments about capturing units really makes me think of Act Of War/Aggression, which itself feels a huge amount like a Generals sequel despite being made by a different studio. Have you ever played them? Capturing enemies is a central mechanic in that.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:34
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Yeah, instead he just shoots them A tool for every situation, and every situation the same tool.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:36
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Also, it's funny you talk about the whole scrapped POW mechanic in the update where you formally introduce Flash Bangs, because the Ranger gets a lot of different voice lines for when he's using Flash Bangs to attack versus when he uses the machine gun. One of the original functions of the Flash Bang was to cause enemy infantry to surrender, which is why he says stuff like "Put your arms in the air" when ordered to attack with them. Based on things we'll see later in the LP of this game and Zero Hour, it seems the POW mechanic was one of the last things cut and EA either didn't care enough to remove the references that are left in the game or didn't remember they were there. But yeah, this whole system is one thing that clearly a lot of work went into, based on the amount of recorded lines related to it. If I remember right, Burton was the only infantry unit you couldn't take prisoner.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:39
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I guess you could call a minigun a sniper rifle since it throws out enough bullets that one of them is bound to hit your target from far away.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:43
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FoolyCharged posted:I guess you could call a minigun a sniper rifle since it throws out enough bullets that one of them is bound to hit your target from far away. Yeah, I gave up trying to figure out why the manual and wiki differ on that one. Icon is clearly a minigun, sounds that way when he shoots, but instead they'll call it a sniper rifle and claim its an experimental weapon. 
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Sep 4, 2021 19:53
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Yeah, I gave up trying to figure out why the manual and wiki differ on that one. Icon is clearly a minigun, sounds that way when he shoots, but instead they'll call it a sniper rifle and claim its an experimental weapon. Sniper in the manual, minigun in the portrait, meanwhile ingame I think it's supposed to be an OICW. 
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Sep 4, 2021 20:20
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It wasn't until later when it was forced upon me when I realized just how powerful Burton really is. With his explosives I figured he was another Tanya who was incredibly useful against infantry and buildings but could still go down against anti-infantry weapons just as easily and was useful against vehicles. Not so much.
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Sep 4, 2021 20:35
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I'm a bit hesitant to talk about the cut "capture" mechanic because it had a pretty revolting aspect to it that we haven't seen yet. I'm astonished it was left in the game - it caused a lot of comment on the original release, and was removed rapidly. But suffice it to say we can reconstruct what Generals was planning to do with the POW mechanic from units left in the files and at least one unit still in the original game, and Jesus Christ... On a nicer note, the Paladin is a pretty interesting sidegrade to the Crusader. You pay more, the gun is more powerful, and a formation of them is mostly immune to rocket attacks. It is actually remarkably harder for rocket-based attacks to kill. You won't take it every game, but picking one makes for a different playstyle and can wrong-foot a human opponent.
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Sep 4, 2021 20:48
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Jobbo_Fett posted:
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Sep 4, 2021 20:49
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It was a false flag all along!
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Sep 4, 2021 20:53
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poo poo, someone found the WMDs!
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Sep 4, 2021 20:55
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How susceptible is burton to fire and anthrax? Is it his one true bane?
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Sep 4, 2021 21:12
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PurpleXVI posted:How susceptible is burton to fire and anthrax? Is it his one true bane? Yeah he's a pushover to fire/toxin
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Sep 4, 2021 21:19
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While the map itself is pretty simple, having it be mostly one big urban center is a nice change of pace, and really shows off how incredibly powerful Burton is when there is no fire/toxin around. While I never really made to much use of his knife ability, one neat thing about it is that it doesn't alert the other commander that they have lost a unit, and Burton doesn't break stealth when using it. As for the whole manual claiming he has a sniper rifle, that is another of the many, many things that was changed during devolvement. Originally he was going to be similar to the old Tiberium Dawn(C&C1) commando, but at some very late point his weapon was switched to the OICW, as in the game files it is even called 'BurtonSniperRifle'. The map itself really doesn't have to much going on, just a large set of patrolling or stationary GLA units, and timed off screen attack waves that beeline for your base. The map design at least looks pretty neat, although capturing the hospital does kind of force you to then leave a decent-sized garrison around it as the spawned GLA units to the south often notice it. Outside of the spawns though you have plenty of time to do whatever you want. I was surprised that you could actually lose a Pilot and not fail the mission though, always thought you had to keep all three of them alive, but I guess just gaining control of them is enough. Fun thing, if you do put them into a vehicle, it also changes the color of it to red to show where the pilot is. The Paladin Tank has slightly more HP then a Crusader, and a much more powerful main cannon. One extra neat thing with its point defense laser is that it can target close-by enemy infantry, although it still takes 2-3 shots from it to down them. Worth spending a point on if there is a lot of rockets around, double so vs the GLA has it counters the Scorpion Rocket first strike, but still a tad situational, especially so when more General abilities/units unlock. The Pathfinder though, as Sylphid stated, are amazing. Just their detection alone are incredible, as if the US needed yet another detection source, and keeping a few around is always worthwhile.
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Sep 4, 2021 23:30
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The Pathfinder is the thing that turns the Humvee into a death machine. Rangers in a Humvee will take a while to down infantry. Pathfinders will just mow through them, especially as they level up and shoot ever faster. It gives the US a frankly terrifying counter to any infantry short of the Angry Mob. I've personally never gotten much use out of Burton, but I also know exactly why -- I'm that guy, the guy who loves capturing things and playing around with as many of the toys as I can get my hands on. The USA is the faction that actually has the hardest time with that, as they can only get other peoples' toys via Ranger capture. The Chinese can use Black Lotus for easy-mode building capturing and the GLA can snipe dozers and other vehicles with Jarmen Kell. Burton can't do any of that. He can, however, REALLY murder things. Like, incredibly. The demo charges have limited use in taking down, say, base defenses, since you lose the cloak while planting them, but they're perfect for hitting isolated structures -- in particular, say, Oil Rigs and other neutral tech buildings, which are usually way out of the way by design. If you can get Burton into an area with no stealth detectors, as well, he can wreak absolute havoc. The distinction between the Cold Fusion and Nuclear Power Plants is fairly extensive, and interesting. Both plants can produce ten resting power -- however, the Nuke Plant starts at that, and the Cold Fusion Plant needs the fuel rod upgrade for it. Thus while the CF Plant has a lower initial placement cost, to get to 10 power each it needs 1300 total compared to the Nuke Plant's 1000. On the flipside, though, the CF Plant doesn't explode when destroyed, and it also has a MUCH smaller footprint -- even smaller than it initially looks, since the Nuclear Plant's footprint goes a little bit beyond the pavement on its model whereas the CF Plant's is pretty much exactly aligned with it. Packing buildings together is generally not a great idea, because superweapons exist, but sometimes you GOTTA, and the CF plant will get you more power for space in that regard. It can also be placed in tighter spaces otherwise. (And finally, it's great for OCD base builders like yours truly). The main distinction of the USA Barracks is also its size -- it's quite long. This can also make it a bit difficult to work with. The War Factories also differ in where their repair docks are -- the US' is on the same direction as the gate units come out from, whereas the Chinese one's is on the side. This can both affect where you place them, and also pathfinding when you have groups of units around them waiting in line to get into the repair dock or out of the building. The Paladin never feels quite worth it, but at the same time I never hate seeing one. It definitely feels kind of like a unit that exists for the campaign to reward you with handing some now and then, and I will say that it works well as that. That little PD laser is surprisingly useful. I just wish that you got two General Points at rank 4 instead of just 1, because that would make the Paladin much more palatable. Redeye Flight fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Sep 5, 2021 |
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Sep 5, 2021 03:10
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When I was at military school a couple years after this game came out, our Commandant was literally named Burton, and he retired from the US Army a Colonel. Definitely not as cool as this Colonel Burton though, he was an ornery guy who only really called you over if he wanted you to push the earth because you did something wrong. The other Colonel on campus who headed the JROTC training program was cooler but also a disciplinary rear end in a top hat who nevertheless gave respect when he felt it was earned, what with him having a Special Forces patch and having had served in Vietnam. I remember a later mission where I took advantage of Burton’s stealth and his knife not revealing him to straight up stab an Angry Mob to death faster than they could regenerate members. That was a fun time.
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Sep 5, 2021 03:48
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Also I'd like to note that Generals was almost certainly designed to have a bit of lag to it, which has not existed on any system it's been on since about 2010. This is based on my experience with it when the Decade collection came out compared to how it is now -- the pacing of the cutscenes and voice lines is a little off in terms of being too fast, and you can tell that the loading screens are deliberately self-throttling to make sure they don't load faster than the mission briefings. This can be a problem! This game moves too fast sometimes. This will be most especially evident in the next mission.
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Sep 5, 2021 04:39
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Redeye Flight posted:Also I'd like to note that Generals was almost certainly designed to have a bit of lag to it, which has not existed on any system it's been on since about 2010. This is based on my experience with it when the Decade collection came out compared to how it is now -- the pacing of the cutscenes and voice lines is a little off in terms of being too fast, and you can tell that the loading screens are deliberately self-throttling to make sure they don't load faster than the mission briefings. Probably not as much lag as I had when it came out. Wooh boy did I get a good look at every frame of the Beijing getting nuked cutscene. My computer couldn't exactly handle the game
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Sep 5, 2021 04:50
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FoolyCharged posted:Probably not as much lag as I had when it came out. Wooh boy did I get a good look at every frame of the Beijing getting nuked cutscene. My computer couldn't exactly handle the game Same. Think it played for me at like 1/3 speed at best, and STILL managed to play through both it and Zero Hour like that. Needless to say, when I finally got a better computer, it was a very different experience seeing everything move at normal speed.
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Sep 5, 2021 05:04
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FoolyCharged posted:Probably not as much lag as I had when it came out. Wooh boy did I get a good look at every frame of the Beijing getting nuked cutscene. My computer couldn't exactly handle the game Same. I remember that I couldn't look at nuclear explosions because my computer would lag so hard.
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Sep 5, 2021 05:23
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So this thread got me to play through the game again, just finished doing scud storm counter battery with China and started the gla campaign. Fun facts about gla1: 1) those random technicals you can find across the river? A bunch of them are highly leveled veterans. 2) Your forces will happily cheer the destruction of the dam even when the rampaging waters only have your own forces to destroy. 3) If you were for some odd reason rallying a poo poo ton of scorpion tanks into the river and there's a big enough queue at the arms dealer, they will happily pull a valkyria chronicles on you and drive their tanks under the water after the wave passes. This does not destroy them.
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Sep 5, 2021 06:18
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FoolyCharged posted:3) If you were for some odd reason rallying a poo poo ton of scorpion tanks into the river and there's a big enough queue at the arms dealer, they will happily pull a valkyria chronicles on you and drive their tanks under the water after the wave passes. This does not destroy them. C&C Generals 2, now with the Global Liberation Aquatics. Angry Fish Mobs to replace Angry Mobs.
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Sep 5, 2021 08:21
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FoolyCharged posted:Probably not as much lag as I had when it came out. Wooh boy did I get a good look at every frame of the Beijing getting nuked cutscene. My computer couldn't exactly handle the game There's a unit we haven't gotten to yet, that has a certain upgrade. My game would simply crash back then, without fail, if that unit fired its weapon with that upgrade active. I think turning the graphical fidelity all the way down would remedy this, but then you couldn't see anthrax or radiation splotches anymore.
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Sep 5, 2021 09:49
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 15:11 |
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Generals had cutting-edge graphics when it come out but was less than stable. I remember my teenage fury when I carefully checked the list of compatible graphics cards before I first installed it...only to discover the first patch quietly removed that entry from the Readme and the game refused to even start!
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Sep 5, 2021 18:03
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