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Rand makes out with Elayne for like a week and everyone treats it like she climbed Dragonmount and planted a flag in him. Rand thinks she hates him until like half the series later, when he finally meets her again. It isn't a hot take to say that the girls are kinda treating him as property and discussing who he belongs to, that's text. But Rand is a willing participant and is totally able to exert his own will on the situation. You could say it's not a healthy relationship and I'd ask you if there's anything healthy about Rand between books like, 2 and 13? Rand is desperately clinging to whatever comfort he can find, when its available, and trying not to think to hard about what comes after, because what comes after is death. Aviendha believes she betrayed Elayne because she broke the spirit of her promise. If Elayne had told her she could get it, Aviendha wouldn't have spent all that time sharpening a knife. Once it's all out on the table, Rand, Elayne and Aviendha all hop aboard pretty quickly. The only one with any misgivings seems to be Min, who feels trapped by the situation (but she felt trapped just falling in love with Rand). The fact that they eventually do try to communicate makes it healthier than almost anything else Rand does during those books lol.
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Sep 8, 2021 01:12
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Jaxyon posted:So what you're saying here is that Rand is the one pushed into a poly relationship with questionable consent. Sure I mean you can say that, and it's probably true in a manner of speaking, because it was literally decreed by fate. But at that point you're probably going into philosophical concepts of free will, more than any practical real world concerns about consent. I think a rough timeline of how this all happened, if memory serves, was: - Min foresees that Rand is the man she's going to marry, and that she's going to have to share him with two other women. - Rand meets Min and makes friends with her. - Rand meets Elayne and they both independently fall in love with each other without acknowledging it. - Min at some point tells Elayne about her prophecy and that they're going to end up in a relationship with Rand and another woman. - Elayne meets Aviendha and makes friends with her. - Rand meets Elayne again later and they have a cute minor relationship in which they play stupid-children-in-love mind games with each other and then Elyane dumps him. - Elayne tells Avidendha that she and Rand are together and makes Aviendha promise to guard him for her. - Aviendha falls in love with Rand at some point during all this bullshit. - Rand and Aviendha sleep together. Aviendha feels bad about it because of her promise to Elayne and because of Aiel cultural rules is now both obligated to kill Rand, and to let Elayne kill her. - Aviendha confesses to Elayne. Elayne tells her about the prophecy. They agree to share Rand with Min. - The three of them confront Rand with this, who this whole time has been beating himself up over being a sexual deviant in love with three women. - Through the power of ~true love~ he rejects his cultural upbringing and they all agree to get married. Really the whole time the only issue any of them had with this was that it was a cultural taboo for most of them. You could probably criticize the author for setting the situation up in the first place if you wanted to, and there's certainly a lot of places in these books that give reason to think he's a dirty old man, but it seems to be justified in the fiction.
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Sep 8, 2021 01:14
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also a lot of this is going way beyond the initial comment that started all of this which was basically 'rand is a sleazy fuckboy who pressures women into relationships with him' which is pretty easily disproven and probably why so many posters took the time to respond and are still responding
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Sep 8, 2021 01:17
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Bongo Bill posted:Determinism doesn't have much to do with consent in any ethically meaningful sense, one way or the other. A prophecy is a prediction, not an intention.
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Sep 8, 2021 01:27
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Johnny Joestar posted:also a lot of this is going way beyond the initial comment that started all of this which was basically 'rand is a sleazy fuckboy who pressures women into relationships with him' which is pretty easily disproven and probably why so many posters took the time to respond and are still responding I'm not exactly backing down off of that. Given his status as a ta'veren, that's certainly a possible reading that isn't disproven. We're not even talking about the initial scene where he and Aviendha have sex where he uses magic for basically everything but somehow the only possible way to warm her body is to share body heat naked, cause I guess magic can't do that? I believe Asmodean comments that almost nobody can do that thing where he blocks another person's gateway from closing.
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Sep 8, 2021 01:30
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The real question is do they leave Rand after he gets another guys dick?
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Sep 8, 2021 01:30
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https://dragonmount.com/forums/topic/75056-what-are-mythological-parallels-for-rand-having-3-wives/quote:Question
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Sep 8, 2021 01:38
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Invalid Validation posted:The real question is do they leave Rand after he gets another guys dick? Hopefully the TV show goes deep into dicks and their associated questions.
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Sep 8, 2021 01:43
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How are u posted:Hopefully the TV show goes deep into dicks and their associated questions. the taint, at least. cheapest joke in the WoT universe, but a Very Goodie
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Sep 8, 2021 01:44
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Barreft posted:https://dragonmount.com/forums/topic/75056-what-are-mythological-parallels-for-rand-having-3-wives/ God bless that old pervert
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Sep 8, 2021 01:46
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Jaxyon posted:I'm not exactly backing down off of that. Given his status as a ta'veren, that's certainly a possible reading that isn't disproven. That, at least, is explicitly explained. quote:Fumbling for the bundle he had left, he swathed Aviendha from head to foot in all of it, the blankets, the rugs of her pallet, her clothes. Every bit of protection was vital. Her eyes were closed, and she did not move. He parted the blankets enough to put an ear to her chest. Her heart beat so slowly that he was not sure he was really hearing it. Even four blankets and half a dozen rugs were not enough, and he could not channel heat into her as he had the ground; even fining the flow as much as possible, he was more likely to kill than warm. He could feel the weave he had used to block open her gateway, a mile or perhaps two away through the storm. If he tried to carry her that far, neither of them would survive. They needed shelter, and they needed it here. Trying to warm her with magic would risk killing her, and even trying to keep the air warm risks killing them both.
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Sep 8, 2021 01:47
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Can't wait for when people realize Tar Valon is a literal vagina design
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Sep 8, 2021 01:47
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Gnoman posted:That, at least, is explicitly explained. Eh, yeah sure the author felt he needed to give a full paragraph explanation to why this was the only way when Rand regularly does poo poo that isn't even remotely explained. Barreft posted:Can't wait for when people realize Tar Valon is a literal vagina design Male captains constantly unable to find the Northharbor and pressuring the guard to let them into the Southharbor
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Sep 8, 2021 01:50
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Jaxyon posted:Male captains constantly unable to find the Northharbor and pressuring the guard to let them into the Southharbor
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Sep 8, 2021 01:51
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I gotta hand it to this thread, I've seen a lot of people spend a lot of time discussing the intricacies of fictional worlds but I've never encountered a debate over whether prophesied sex is unethical
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Sep 8, 2021 02:03
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Gnoman posted:If you aren't going to bother fact-checking your half-assed take, have you considered listening to the people telling you that you're full of poo poo? Nope. This isn't even the first time they've done this as I already had them on ignore.
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Sep 8, 2021 02:20
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Barreft posted:Can't wait for when people realize Tar Valon is a literal vagina design I showed the map to my husband a while ago and he thought that I was just being a big ol' pervert when I said it was a vagina. He was all "sure, it's an oval with tapered ends, but you're reading way too much into it." Then I pointed out all the "anatomical" bits and he about died laughing.
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Sep 8, 2021 03:20
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If you think this discourse is fun just wait until they do the Perrin spanks Faile scene
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Sep 8, 2021 07:06
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Yeah, I don't know if that's going to be in the show.
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Sep 8, 2021 07:51
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i feel pretty confident they're not going to have that stuff in the show
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Sep 8, 2021 07:55
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Barreft posted:https://dragonmount.com/forums/topic/75056-what-are-mythological-parallels-for-rand-having-3-wives/ Given how goony older RJ appears to have looked, I can only imagine young RJ as basically Adonis.
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Sep 8, 2021 09:20
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Jaxyon posted:Male captains constantly unable to find the Northharbor and pressuring the guard to let them into the Southharbor 
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Sep 8, 2021 09:22
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Jaxyon posted:I'm not exactly backing down off of that. Given his status as a ta'veren, that's certainly a possible reading that isn't disproven. Ta'averen are not able to shape the pattern to give them what they want, rather, the pattern uses them as loci to get the outcome it desires ("desires" might be the wrong word but it will do). It's stated in the text that they actually have less freedom to decide their fate while they are fulfilling that role - only by leaning into what the pattern wants do they regain some agency. Rand explicitly does not have control over this ability and if it worked for him he would have had it work out differently. Aviendha has sex with him first, after Elayne has broken up with him (even though she tells Aviendha she hasn't). After that, she tells him they will never do that again. Min, in text, explicitly consents to sex and a relationship. At this point, Rand thinks that neither of the other girls he loves want that, and he loves Min, so he is into it. The three girls get together in Caemlyn and decide they are willing to share him if he loves them all. He meets the three and they agree that they all love him and he loves them so they want to bond him. He agrees to that. Then Elayne tells him she wants to have sex with him before he leaves and they do. What are the specific steps along the way that you find problematic?
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Sep 8, 2021 11:56
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I just doubt the show will include an anime harem ending considering what else it seems to shift or condense, both for mainstreaming and expediency. One thing to keep in mind is the number of steps involved in justifying it in the narrative. If many other minor plot points, characters etc. are getting cut, would this subplot be one of the ones they keep?
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Sep 8, 2021 13:07
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Rand's anime harem is one of the least complicated things to adapt tbh
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Sep 8, 2021 13:21
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Is it unethical to have sex with someone you're in love with? All those brain chemicals are messing with your ability to think clearly after all
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Sep 8, 2021 13:23
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How are u posted:I believe Rand had many women that he found attractive throw themselves at him over the course of the books, and he refused their advances. Cairheinen nobles, the darkfriend lady in Rhuidean, etc. Berelain, Selene (and again and again once she revealed herself), the dozens of women he thumbs his earlobe at... As for the Prologue, I've come around to not including it at the start. I think it will help avoid the Male Chosen One aspect and emphasize the world run by powerful women, and also avoid what (male) channeling looks like so viewers won't know if talking to wolves, or unnatural luck and speaking the Old Tongue, or other stuff is a sign of being the Dragon Reborn. Once the world is established it can have several neat plot twists come out of that reveal
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Sep 8, 2021 13:58
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I never understood how that was ambiguous in the first book. Like Rand is the main character, of course he was gonna be the dragon. What else would he do if he wasn’t? Stumble around following everyone while they yell at him for being a dumb hick?
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Sep 8, 2021 14:15
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silvergoose posted:Interesting. Does YA tend towards first person perspectives, few if any different POV switches, that sort of thing? Thanks for answering! Id say so, yeah. Its why Id consider something like The Hazelwood YA instead of straight fantasy.
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Sep 8, 2021 14:20
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silvergoose posted:Interesting. Does YA tend towards first person perspectives, few if any different POV switches, that sort of thing? Thanks for answering! In reality, there's no actual hard line dividing 'adult' and 'young adult' and even 'children' fiction. It's just who they decide to market the book to. Which, generally, is based on the age of the protagonist. It frankly seems like a weird requirement to force multiple POVs to not be YA. And hell, there's the Animorphs where the entire selling point is that it switches perspective every single book, and has strongly differentiated characters that are clearly more than just self-inserts for the reader and that's considered YA/Children. And it's a gory, horrifying war story.
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Sep 8, 2021 15:17
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There's no hard and fast rule, fantasy and young adult and half a dozen other genres bleed into each other. Like how old is Pug in Rift Wars in the first book? Tropes are a good sign post, and a narrowing of perspective, love interest, staying in the head of the protagonist versus lore...I dunno, its why I tended to read fantasy rather than YA as a kid. Maybe I'm not the best judge of it then.
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Sep 8, 2021 16:13
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Jaxyon posted:I am but a lot of it seems like people disagreeing with interpretation not on facts. Please stop using the internet. Entirely. Do something else. Your online persona is atrocious and this is actively bad for you. The books go on and on about consent. It’s literally hundreds of pages.
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Sep 8, 2021 16:45
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I was hoping 75 new posts in the thread meant a surprise second trailer or cast announcement.
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Sep 8, 2021 17:20
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Democratic Pirate posted:I was hoping 75 new posts in the thread meant a surprise second trailer or cast announcement. We did get a leak of one of those! Lews Therin was cast and is supposedly in S1.
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Sep 8, 2021 17:25
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We better get Demandred in coin armor by the end Amazon, I swear to god!
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Sep 8, 2021 17:31
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Invalid Validation posted:I never understood how that was ambiguous in the first book. Like Rand is the main character, of course he was gonna be the dragon. What else would he do if he wasn’t? Stumble around following everyone while they yell at him for being a dumb hick? It's for sure not ambiguous in the book, but it could be in the series since the main character will be Morraine. Since that's the main thing she's trying to find out, it would be better if you don't spend the whole season following someone trying to figure out something that's dead obvious. That said, I think it'll be more of a pilot question than a season question if anything. It seems like it probably won't be a question at least after the episode called The Dragon Reborn, aka #4.
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Sep 8, 2021 17:51
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Gambor posted:It's for sure not ambiguous in the book, but it could be in the series since the main character will be Morraine. Since that's the main thing she's trying to find out, it would be better if you don't spend the whole season following someone trying to figure out something that's dead obvious. That said, I think it'll be more of a pilot question than a season question if anything. It seems like it probably won't be a question at least after the episode called The Dragon Reborn, aka #4. #4 is probably more to do with Logain and a discussion on what the Dragon Reborn is, rather than revealing the answer, which probably comes at the end of the season.
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Sep 8, 2021 18:36
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:#4 is probably more to do with Logain and a discussion on what the Dragon Reborn is, rather than revealing the answer, which probably comes at the end of the season. I'm going to spoiler this as it's based mostly on the trailers, but it's just a theory. Based on the trailers we've seen so far, I think that episode is going to show the actual capture of Logain. We see a bunch of Red and Green Ajah people fighting someone, and they wouldn't normally work together. So, I think it's going to show off them working to actually capture a dangerous male channeler. It would be a cool scene, and would really show what a male channeler can do.
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Sep 8, 2021 19:21
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seaborgium posted:I'm going to spoiler this as it's based mostly on the trailers, but it's just a theory. Based on some other stuff in the trailer and those promo photos, I'm thinking Moiraine gets injured in Shadar Logoth and Lan and Nynaeve take her to get healed. The closest Aes Sedai are those transporting a captured Logain. While they're there Logain's dudes attack and Logain breaks containment. I'm thinking they're setting him up as more of an early antagonist, both to show off how dangerous male channelers are and also to maybe set up that he might actually be the Dragon. I'm thinking they're going to make that a much muddier issue than it was in the book. Probably not worth spoiling wild speculation but eh CainsDescendant fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Sep 8, 2021 |
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Sep 8, 2021 20:09
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Anias posted:Please stop using the internet. Entirely. Do something else. Your online persona is atrocious and this is actively bad for you. Its some of the worse tendencies found in the politics forums bleeding in.
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Sep 8, 2021 20:15
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