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I think the part that stings about this chapter and the previous one to a degree too is that it really does feel like a story that's setting up for its finale. It would've taken a long time to get anywhere even close to an ending and probably still ended up unfinished, but it's just so obvious Miura really was going somewhere with the story. Such a crying shame he didn't get to at least have a fair attempt at getting there.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:09
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Archer666 posted:*cue griffith's vision of the future of living together like at the end of Golden Age, except he's in a high chair this time* I've always been of the opinion that that part was some serious foreshadowing intentionally obscured by the fact that it takes up like three panels in the middle of a bunch of way crazier poo poo, and this issue just confirms it, IMO. Griffith successfully achieved his dream and has everything he ever wanted, but the process left him permanently haunted by the one thing his ambition and power can't get him--the genuine love that Guts and Casca have for each other and their child. Meanwhile, Guts came to terms with literally letting go of his sword and looking after his child instead, and Casca finally woke up from her long nightmare to a reality that's painful but not completely hopeless. I would have liked to see what Miura had planned for the rest of the story, but as it stands, this ending is pretty much perfect for the story.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:33
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Nestharken posted:I've always been of the opinion that that part was some serious foreshadowing intentionally obscured by the fact that it takes up like three panels in the middle of a bunch of way crazier poo poo, and this issue just confirms it, IMO. The problem is that this isn't the ending This would never have been the ending. Follow the narrative thought through. Griffith seeks to make his kingdom the only kingdom. The only safehold. Even if its a kingdom of monsters like the Giants, he will wage total war and wipe them out. He is an intensely jealous prick. What happened last time he discovered that Casca and Guts grew beyond him? Beyond his dream, beyond what he could control? And I'm not referring to the Eclipse here. Even when he was regular ole human Griffith, albeit after a year of torture and emasculation, what did he do? He tried to force himself on Casca, tried to impotently take back some measure of control. And the minute he was given power, he did it by force. Griffith was content with letting Guts and Casca flit around while still clearly marked by what He did to them- but now they've grown beyond that again. They've reached a point where they did that? What happens now that Griffith has discovered a sanctuary that stands apart from His kingdom? He was never going to go home and cry to the princess about it. This is an affront to Griffith's dream, a slap in the face to his ambitions and ego. And we know how he reacts to getting slapped in the face.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:10
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Burkion posted:The problem is that this isn't the ending It is perhaps a testament to Miura's writing that he could just up and die and still leave us with an unintentional ending which, while very open, doesn't feel inappropriate. We can follow the narrative thought through because we're now past some final thematic turning point; maybe we'll never know the details of how it would play out, but it's not a massive reach to say that this is where the conflict ended and what would have lain before us was just follow-through. Femto's entire deal is to rise above; to take what he wants and be untouchable. This chapter puts the lie to that and makes his fall is inevitable.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:24
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I dunno he still has an invincible army of demons and a magic tree that makes nightmares real and his city the only save haven in the world from all of it, it's a good character moment but it's still a petty moral victory and that would have been an insanely bad way to deliberately end the story
No Dignity fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Sep 9, 2021 |
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Sep 9, 2021 23:28
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I don't think anyone would argue that an intentional and deliberate ending would not have been preferable. But the ending as it stands works shockingly well considering the circumstances. Miura could have died while they were all still on the boat or fighting undead pirates, imagine that.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:35
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Erm perhaps LordMune would know but is this the same "dream" from early chapters around which Griffith placed so much of his identify? IE, is this word "dream" or "vision"? I ask because Griffith never really talked about waking from his vision-dream before, so if this is truly the same wording as his vision-dream to pile up bodies to reach his kingdom, then there's something of substance here suggesting Griffith was truly lonely/empty in Falconia and may be "awakening" from the flaws of that vision-dream. That is, are we reading too little (vernacular "dream") into this or am I reading too much into this?
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Sep 9, 2021 23:39
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I feel like the people saying "well worst case scenario you can just ignore the continuation if it's bad!!" are completely missing the point about why some people don't want Berserk to continue. Sidenote: apparently the issue of Young Animal includes a comic by Kouji Mori, mangaka who wrote Holyland and apparently a close friend (former assistant?) of Miura, about his thoughts on Miura's death. Hope we get to see it eventually
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Sep 10, 2021 00:46
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There are some good posts here about how this ending, while unintentional, isn't entirely inappropriate, but I definitely have to disagree super hard on the idea of this being a "perfect" or even "good" ending on the chance that GAGA doesn't press on If it doesn't continue then so be it, but I just can't look at so many loose ends with one hell of an unexplained last twist and think "yeah this is a great way to end it, it's perfect"
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Sep 10, 2021 01:09
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It’s not really a twist is it? I thought we knew this stuff since Tower of Conviction
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Sep 10, 2021 01:14
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the Tower of Conviction was like 20 years ago
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Sep 10, 2021 01:20
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Yeah I wouldn't be like, the most upset ever if this is how Berserk ended, but this isn't a satisfying ending. It's honestly just playing catch-up on plot threads that frankly should have been caught up years ago.
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Sep 10, 2021 01:24
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Tosk posted:I feel like the people saying "well worst case scenario you can just ignore the continuation if it's bad!!" are completely missing the point about why some people don't want Berserk to continue. I must admit, I really don't get your point, since you don't elaborate on it. Nobody's forcing you to read the chapters that come out after Miura died.
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Sep 10, 2021 01:25
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Demon Fetus/Guilt Child is strong as gently caress, look at them carry the black armor around.
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Sep 10, 2021 01:33
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There's too much unfinished business. I'd be unsatisfied if this was it.
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Sep 10, 2021 01:43
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yeah, i agree, there are TONS of loose ends, and if they've got the outlines to continue it, i'd be interested in seeing how it plays out.
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Sep 10, 2021 01:45
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Slightly Absurd posted:I must admit, I really don't get your point, since you don't elaborate on it. Nobody's forcing you to read the chapters that come out after Miura died. I think the argument is they feel it's disrespectful to Miura and that Berserk should end with him. And assuming that's the argument I would say it depends on what his wishes were, which unfortunately none of us are in a position to divine. His assistants would have a better measure of that, I think.
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Sep 10, 2021 01:49
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Slightly Absurd posted:I must admit, I really don't get your point, since you don't elaborate on it. Nobody's forcing you to read the chapters that come out after Miura died. Sorry! I think that there's something to be said for the integrity of letting Miura's work die with him. It isn't all about the fans, in my opinion, and if he didn't leave anything that expressly conveyed that he wanted the manga to be carried on by his assistants, then it shouldn't be, and whether or not people want more Berserk shouldn't really have anything to do with that. Edit: but like the poster above me said, his assistants probably have a better grasp on that situation than anyone here. That said, from what I read on the skull knight forums where all the diehard Berserk fans dwell, the end of this chapter didn't have the "to be continued" but rather "おわり" which apparently is just "the end." Tosk fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 01:50
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Slightly Absurd posted:I must admit, I really don't get your point, since you don't elaborate on it. Nobody's forcing you to read the chapters that come out after Miura died. In Tosk's defense they have expressed this in greater detail earlier in the thread Tosk posted:I'll go ahead and slap the disclaimer on here: this is just my opinion.
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Sep 10, 2021 01:51
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That post is slightly embarrassing in hindsight and I probably shouldn't have gotten so emotional about a manga and posted about it on these forums, but oh well! I guess following Berserk for the better part of two decades was worth it anyway.
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Sep 10, 2021 01:53
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fair enough [and i did almost go back and edit my post after i went back and read Tosk's older posts to see what they meant, but the thread was already moving along by that point]
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Sep 10, 2021 01:55
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For me, personally, I can't imagine spending 30 years of my life on something and wanting it to stay unfinished. But I'm also obviously coming to that conclusion because I selfishly want to see the ending. E: I do understand where you're coming from though.
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Sep 10, 2021 02:02
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The only people who have any real say in whether Berserk should continue on are the people at Studio Gaga who worked side by side with the man and know him better than any fan could and have had their entire professional careers shaped by him.
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Sep 10, 2021 04:04
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Eej posted:The only people who have any real say in whether Berserk should continue on are the people at Studio Gaga who worked side by side with the man and know him better than any fan could and have had their entire professional careers shaped by him. ah but he died which means that his work should end right here and now regardless of what he would have wanted or what those closest to him feel
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Sep 10, 2021 04:24
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Eej posted:The only people who have any real say in whether Berserk should continue on are the people at Studio Gaga who worked side by side with the man and know him better than any fan could and have had their entire professional careers shaped by him.
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Sep 10, 2021 04:42
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Just let it die please I'm tired of living in a world where poo poo doesn't end anymore and now a literal death of the author is going to potentially be exploited for more money.
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Sep 10, 2021 06:01
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Seeing as how this chapter literally finishes with "THE END", I'm not expecting any releases beyond it.
ETURNA fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 08:27
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Otoh the magazine intro literally says "no decision has been made about the future of berserk" so we'll see. Also lol at nothing is allowed to end. People do want berserk to end. If it ends here, it'll be forever unfinished.
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Sep 10, 2021 09:25
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Warning to everyone, there link from earlier in the thread is 17 pages when there are supposed to be 28 pages with better translations. Go read those extra pages if you haven’t!!! Kart Barfunkel fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 09:53
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Nestharken posted:I've always been of the opinion that that part was some serious foreshadowing intentionally obscured by the fact that it takes up like three panels in the middle of a bunch of way crazier poo poo, and this issue just confirms it, IMO. LordMune posted:It is perhaps a testament to Miura's writing that he could just up and die and still leave us with an unintentional ending which, while very open, doesn't feel inappropriate. We can follow the narrative thought through because we're now past some final thematic turning point; maybe we'll never know the details of how it would play out, but it's not a massive reach to say that this is where the conflict ended and what would have lain before us was just follow-through. Femto's entire deal is to rise above; to take what he wants and be untouchable. This chapter puts the lie to that and makes his fall is inevitable. It feels to me that it'd probably have turned around to Griffith being seen/accepted as a victim of Femto and that Guts and Casca ultimately get to a point that they need to destroy Femto to save their child and Griffith from what he became. Obviously, Griffith is Femto but there's some deeper ideological and thoughtful interpretations to it that a better writer than me would explain more interestingly. And it's implied that Guts actually does have what he wanted all along, even if they're different people. The Hawks are gone but his new band love him, Casca is recovering and maybe she'd have gotten to a point where she and Guts could have been a couple again, there's a lot of hope there, and their child ultimately did make it and is alive, though the implication of what he is heavy and serious implications. This is a good place to end it. Sure, it's "unfinished" but it's the end of what Miura wrote so it is finished at the same time and in the end, Berserk's never really strayed from telling you that things won't always end the way you want them to and Griffith looking back and realising that is satisfying. I'd read a continuation but it'd not be the same.
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Sep 10, 2021 10:19
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While the audience knew about the rebirth, isn't this the first confirmation for everyone else about the connection of the moon child and Griffith? Little sad to see the final pages Miura worked on after following the comic for so long, but there they are. Farther along into the plot than I thought we'd get after the massive delays of the past several years.
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Sep 10, 2021 10:34
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Mirello posted:Otoh the magazine intro literally says "no decision has been made about the future of berserk" so we'll see. There is money to be made so nothing is allowed to end. More than likely they are gaging fan response. Unless it’s goes horribly which I haven’t seen, it will more than likely continue
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Sep 10, 2021 11:12
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Warning to everyone, there link from earlier in the thread is 17 pages when there are supposed to be 28 pages with better translations. goddamn, you weren't kidding. [not sure if this is "a better translation," but it's definitely got the rest of the pages] https://readberserk.com/chapter/berserk-chapter-364-2/ I don't think we have to worry too much about a possible continuation being just a heartless cash in. It seems like the studio is intensely aware of how beloved and influential Berserk is, and they seem to have just as much love and respect for the series as anyone here, if not more, since they personally knew Miura. And I'd say it's a safe bet that they're also painfully cognizant of the fact that if they do gently caress this up that it'd basically be career suicide.
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Sep 10, 2021 11:42
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Slightly Absurd posted:goddamn, you weren't kidding. It's the evil genius release, which is not only done (in part) by LordMune who posted here like 10 posts ago, they're the best fan group this series has, and I'd rank it above the official releases generally. It avoids awkward phrasing like KNIGHT OF SKELETON
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Sep 10, 2021 12:11
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The typesetting was really top notch. Great work from the Evil Genius team over all these years. I can't imagine what it must feel like to see the end of a project like scanlating Berserk, so congratulations to everyone there (especially if one of the team members might see this!) for a really incredible achievement! Your release is easily on par with the Dark Horse translations and possibly better. I hope you all feel good about the work you've done and the enjoyment you've brought to so many fans across the world. Just for the record, because at least one poster above seems to have misconstrued the argument as "Kentaro Miura is dead so Berserk must die," that at least wasn't the point I intended to make. I just meant that "what the fans want" should be completely immaterial next to the wishes of the people actually making the art (Miura and his team), for this or any other artistic undertaking. I agree that if a continuation does happen, it probably won't be a heartless cash grab, but I also agree with the points made by other posts that, as far as endings we could have gotten considering the sudden death of the author, this has to be one of the best imaginable. Sorry if I riled anyone up when I posted before! Heartbreaking to see the end of that journey after so long, but a really beautiful ending in my opinion!
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Sep 10, 2021 14:07
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Josuke Higashikata posted:It's the evil genius release, which is not only done (in part) by LordMune who posted here like 10 posts ago, they're the best fan group this series has, and I'd rank it above the official releases generally. It avoids awkward phrasing like KNIGHT OF SKELETON Is there a decent place to read about the Dark Horse translation and some of the inconsistencies or phrasing they might have, because the only place I can think of that might have them is the Skull Knight forums and it might be full of some of the most insufferable Berserk fans in existence
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Sep 10, 2021 14:31
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If that's all its a hell of a place to end. Count me among those that hope his assistants and his estate believe they can finish his work. We are finally at the climax of the story, I want to imagine he had more set out for folks to follow vs just having it in his head. I guess we will find out, I can accept this as the finish, but it wouldn't be as satisfying to me as if we can actually get one. I really do think as far as the art goes, his assistants would do it justice. They've helped him for years, the dialogue and plot I guess we can't say, but I have faith at least that part wouldn't really dip from Miura's work too much if it's continued.
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Sep 10, 2021 18:06
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Slightly Absurd posted:goddamn, you weren't kidding. Okay yeah wow that's a lot more complete.
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Sep 10, 2021 18:25
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The rest of Berserk will be done as according to Miura's notes, which is to say in puppet show form.
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Sep 10, 2021 18:26
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Claymation Berserk imo. His assistants write faster, but the production of each chapter still takes as long
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Sep 10, 2021 18:35
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