(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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BrianWilly posted:The point being it's really nice, for instance, as a Chinese-American to see Shang-Chi being good and cool without ten thousand white people telling me that it's actually secretly bad somehow because, gasp, a corporation decided to make this movie. As opposed to...I dunno, movies that aren't made by corporations. My personal amusing story along that vein was when I was lectured by a non-Asian goon about the sins of Crazy Rich Asians when I said that I enjoyed it. For the record, I am Malaysian Chinese. I was told that a) the movie didn't show any super-rich ethnically Indian/Malay people (Singapore is like 80% ethnically Chinese so it's not really weird that the ultra-rich ghoul community there is 99% Chinese) and b) that the movie should show more "real Singaporeans". Implying that ethnically Chinese people aren't local/real citizens is like, the biggest local right-wing talking point and ignores the fact that Singapore has been majority Chinese since the 1700s, and this guy was trying to outlefty me with this point? I get that the movie is downplaying how bad the ultra-rich really act and upselling their lifestyle. It's still a fun romcom to watch.
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Sep 10, 2021 06:53
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BrianWilly posted:I’m assuming whiteness and straightness on your part which I apologize if I’m wrong about, though the general sentiment applies nonetheless. Matt Baume talks about the larger than life character Hollywood Montrose from the Movie Mannequin. "Hollywood Montrose: Mannequin’s Gay Hero" https://youtu.be/sWC8r5v1i-w
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Sep 10, 2021 09:14
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Sounds like the RLM problem is that their casual chatter and shorthanding amongst friends makes them look like douches when a longer explanation might not.
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Sep 10, 2021 10:04
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To use a recent example Psychonauts 2 has a group of character that I've seen refered to by multiple people online as 'the burgerking kids club'. They don t get much time in the story which is a shame. However the game also just straight up has a gay relationship which is just treated as normal. These two characters are in love and got married, you visit their brains and discover their histories and zero of their personal trauma has anything to do with their sexuality. There wasn't any marketing bollocks about 'the first gay couple in a double fine game' or anything like that either. I'm not quite sure how to square that really good wholesome representation with the black intern who shows up to use his yoyo powers like twice or the kid in a wheelchair who literally turns up and gets thanked in the final boss battle despite not actually doing anything at all. It feels like a waste for those characters. I think a reason 'tokenism' as a critism tends to get my back up is I'm used to seeing it used by people who's answer to the problem is 'don't ever put minorities in media' rather than from the perspective of 'give minority characters an actual character and role in the story'.
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Sep 10, 2021 12:09
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While I get what you mean, Psychonauts 2 use of the Interns reads more like an unfortunate accident of script changes rather than on purpose. The game's second and act have a very different tone to the first act and finale, and it comes across like they had more planned, or multiple disparate script drafts, and had to consolidate that down to get the game done. The Interns just noticeably disappear into the background as a result for most of the game past the first act of the story, just to reappear acting like they've always been present helping/hindering Raz throughout the game.
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Sep 10, 2021 12:28
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fun hater posted:i find it hard to imagine anyone normal feeling anything toward a character that was a total non-entity in the script and as a person. I loved Rose  fun hater posted:anyone normal oh
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Sep 10, 2021 12:55
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Nuns with Guns posted:Anyway, Zullie the Witch is doing God's work breaking the Dark Souls games over her knee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjgCoBgF1hA that detail about the color of Isshin's fingernails is crazy lol. sekiro kicks rear end
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Sep 10, 2021 14:03
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Neddy Seagoon posted:While I get what you mean, Psychonauts 2 use of the Interns reads more like an unfortunate accident of script changes rather than on purpose. The game's second and act have a very different tone to the first act and finale, and it comes across like they had more planned, or multiple disparate script drafts, and had to consolidate that down to get the game done.
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Sep 10, 2021 14:12
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What do you mean shoehorned in? I do not feel that is the case at all. They are a central part of the plot of the game.
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Sep 10, 2021 14:26
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Jamie Faith posted:I loved Rose I also really liked Rose and the entire really good film. Was gutted she was pretty much excised from the next one.
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Sep 10, 2021 14:35
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that is fascinating to me because she could have been replaced with a spunky dog in the script and i dont think anything would have changed. they wrote a total non-character for an actress who deserved better or not to be dragged into that poo poo movie trilogy at all
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Sep 10, 2021 15:26
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I fundamentally disagree that her character - who out of everyone in the film most clearly elucidates the idealism and moral framework at the core of the film's point of view, doing so in both dialogue and action - could be replaced by a dog.
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Sep 10, 2021 15:43
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She was clearly partially there to avoid having Finn and Poe interact too much with their obvious chemistry. Same with the bounty hunter and other ex stormtrooper in ROS.
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Sep 10, 2021 15:55
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They should have replaced every character with a dog
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Sep 10, 2021 16:05
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Dogs are too good to start a star war so there wouldn't be a movie.
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Sep 10, 2021 16:11
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Zedd posted:She was clearly partially there to avoid having Finn and Poe interact too much with their obvious chemistry. Same with the bounty hunter and other ex stormtrooper in ROS. Partially. Her main role was still showing Finn that people in the rebellion were driven by more than survival; they -cared- about what they fought for, enough to live for it and fight another day. Now, helmet-girl from the next movie was 100% "Poe is all about the ladies, folks". And the renega stormtrooper lass Finn meets later is 90% that, and 10% "Ehh not all troopers are bad, some feel the Force and it's a moral power we guess, whatever."
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Sep 10, 2021 16:12
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Sephyr posted:Now, helmet-girl from the next movie was 100% "Poe is all about the ladies, folks". Also about Abrams giving Keri Russell a paycheck.
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Sep 10, 2021 16:20
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Sephyr posted:Partially. Her main role was still showing Finn that people in the rebellion were driven by more than survival; they -cared- about what they fought for, enough to live for it and fight another day. it's incredible that I can't tell if you are inventing characters or if they actually were in the movies
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Sep 10, 2021 16:24
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Sephyr posted:Partially. Her main role was still showing Finn that people in the rebellion were driven by more than survival; they -cared- about what they fought for, enough to live for it and fight another day. Although it still is very weird that Rose needed to show Finn The Child Soldier that the New Order is bad, actually, although that's more on Johnson and the script than anything to do with Tran.
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Sep 10, 2021 16:39
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nine-gear crow posted:Jack is unironically the best (and only good) member of RLM now.
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Sep 10, 2021 16:39
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Karloff posted:I fundamentally disagree that her character - who out of everyone in the film most clearly elucidates the idealism and moral framework at the core of the film's point of view, doing so in both dialogue and action - could be replaced by a dog. Yeah, I thought Rose herself was a pretty good character: She had a solid motivation, an interesting implied backstory and a pretty decent niche within the main cast. It was more the plot thread that she was most heavily involved in in that movie (The casino planet) felt largely extraneous to the main thrust of the film, which I think a lot of people conflated with the character herself being bad for some reason?
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Sep 10, 2021 16:41
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Andrast posted:They should have replaced every character with a dog I mean the next movie did add a Droid who was analogous to an abused dog.
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Sep 10, 2021 16:44
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Dawgstar posted:Although it still is very weird that Rose needed to show Finn The Child Soldier that the New Order is bad, actually, although that's more on Johnson and the script than anything to do with Tran. ? finn knows the first order is bad, that’s why at the start of the movie he tries to get as far away from them as humanly possible. rose convinces him to stand and fight instead of ditching everyone Augus fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 16:46
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star war
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Sep 10, 2021 17:00
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stars war
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Sep 10, 2021 17:17
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Ariong posted:What do you mean shoehorned in? I do not feel that is the case at all. They are a central part of the plot of the game. I also acknowledge that I'm being harsher on them than the camper characters from Psychonauts 1 who also don't really have a role in the second half of the game. It also sucks that Its way too easy to see a character in a wheelchair or whatever and write the group off as 'token' inclusions. Like why do we only seem to care about 'pandering' when minorities are the target? I dunno I have mixed feelings on it, but i don't think the game would have been better if the interns didn't exist or were more abstract like the campers largely were. The burger king kids club comparasons hit home a little but ultimately isn't a kids game an appropriate place for that kind of shallow inclusiveness anyway?
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Sep 10, 2021 17:24
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I literally did not care when I saw the kid in a wheelchair, it didn't even register to me that people would be bothered by it, or that I'm supposed to be concerned about tokenism I just thought it was cool how they fashioned a chair around their orb. it's really more of a trackball with armrests and backing the only weird thing about Psychonauts 2 was the timing of having "Chinese wet markets sure are sleazy!" jokes in the year 2021 but gently caress the game is so good otherwise
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Sep 10, 2021 17:27
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Dawgstar posted:Although it still is very weird that Rose needed to show Finn The Child Soldier that the New Order is bad, actually, although that's more on Johnson and the script than anything to do with Tran. I don't think the point was that the Order was bad; he knew that bone-deep. It was that they had to do -more- about it than just gathering their loved ones and running away.
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Sep 10, 2021 17:46
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The rules can't say a Dog can't fight a star war
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Sep 10, 2021 17:55
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hbomberguy you loving coward unprivate star tre
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Sep 10, 2021 18:07
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Sudden Loud Noise posted:Speaking of Marvel, Lindsey Ellis's latest video on narcissism and Loki is a nice look into where Loki failed in it's characterization and narrative, and a pretty abysmal and factually inaccurate explanation and examination of narcissistic personality disorder. Am I reading this right; she tried to explain narcissistic personality disorder and just failed miserably?
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Sep 10, 2021 18:37
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Argas posted:stars war Mandalore already released this cut and completely broke Shammy's brain.
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Sep 10, 2021 18:43
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Mandalore is a criminal for not releasing his star wars 3 cut.
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Sep 10, 2021 18:49
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Sydin posted:Mandalore already released this cut and completely broke Shammy's brain. arthur fleck is not on the jedi council!
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Sep 10, 2021 18:58
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thetoughestbean posted:Am I reading this right; she tried to explain narcissistic personality disorder and just failed miserably? Kinda yeah. One of her main messages is that he's poorly written because (according to her) someone with NPD can't acknowledge that they have NPD, and the moment that they acknowledge it, and want to be better they no longer qualify as having NPD. Which is just....false. Overall, her point suffers because Loki is an archetype, and not a real person with an actual disorder. So examining him through the lens of the real disorder unravels pretty quickly. Also, a huge amount of personality disorder research and understanding is Western White Male biased to the extent that applying it to other cultures (real or imagined) starts to unravel pretty quickly. The basic ideas of narcissism and selfish motivation are universal, but that's not really what her essay was on, it was on the clinical idea of NPD.
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Sep 10, 2021 19:15
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Sudden Loud Noise posted:Kinda yeah. One of her main messages is that he's poorly written because (according to her) someone with NPD can't acknowledge that they have NPD, and the moment that they acknowledge it, and want to be better they no longer qualify as having NPD. Which is just....false. did she write that after reading a NPD subreddit or something because lol
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Sep 10, 2021 19:22
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is that ellis video.... like, good? 
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Sep 10, 2021 19:29
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Sudden Loud Noise posted:Kinda yeah. One of her main messages is that he's poorly written because (according to her) someone with NPD can't acknowledge that they have NPD, and the moment that they acknowledge it, and want to be better they no longer qualify as having NPD. Which is just....false. That's not what I got outta that point. I thought it was "we don't like narcissists in real life, so as soon as a character acknowledges it by name, they can no longer act that way because they can't be likable after they identify their behavior as narcissistic."
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Sep 10, 2021 19:40
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Sudden Loud Noise posted:Kinda yeah. One of her main messages is that he's poorly written because (according to her) someone with NPD can't acknowledge that they have NPD, and the moment that they acknowledge it, and want to be better they no longer qualify as having NPD. Which is just....false. I thought the point was more along the lines of "Sufferers of NPD require some form of outside intervention to trigger the type of introspection required to properly contextualize and confront their disorder" and "NPD, like other personality disorders, are not ones that can be 'cured' in the way we traditionally think and the tendency of media to treat narcissism as a character flaw to be overcome through PLOT stigmatizes the conditions and its sufferers in the public consciousness" There's definitely room to discuss and disagree with these points, but your original presentation seems like a gross oversimplification of the points actually brought up in the video at best?
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Sep 10, 2021 19:45
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 12:48 |
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KingKalamari posted:There's definitely room to discuss and disagree with these points, but your original presentation seems like a gross oversimplification of the points actually brought up in the video at best? That’s fair. I don’t think her points were entirely invalid, but I think her focus on NPD took away from her more valid takes on the character.
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Sep 10, 2021 20:09
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