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Malcolm Turnbeug posted:*banging on the pod door* let me gently caress and suck the machines!!!
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Sep 14, 2021 21:28
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cowboy
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bag em and tag em posted:This guy gets it. We don't want the Matrix, we want The Culture. we should replace the executive branch of government with AI algorithms that impartially allocate resources and provide services as needed. The legislative branch can still be elected representatives - they pass laws that become new algorithms for the executive bots. The Judiciary is responsible for auditing the algorithms for bias. Police should be replaced with robocops, until they are no longer required because everyone's needs are met. but yeah, human societies and ecosystems are far too complicated for humans to manage. Let the AI do it.
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Sep 14, 2021 22:56
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raspurtin posted:impartially allocate resources no
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Sep 14, 2021 22:58
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To be honest, random allocation would be both impartial and actually preferable to the current system
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Sep 14, 2021 23:02
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raspurtin posted:we should replace the executive branch of government with AI algorithms that impartially allocate resources and provide services as needed. The legislative branch can still be elected representatives - they pass laws that become new algorithms for the executive bots. The Judiciary is responsible for auditing the algorithms for bias. Police should be replaced with robocops, until they are no longer required because everyone's needs are met. word i'm sure that the algorithms won't ever do a racism based on the laws passed by the legislature
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Sep 14, 2021 23:02
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Can't violate the three laws of robotics baked in to your positronic brain if you don't consider any non-white people to be humans because you were trained using a biased dataset!
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Sep 14, 2021 23:09
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i am pretty sure you can whack alienation w puter touchin to the extent i have a dealio for it but im p sure you cant whack bad faith w puter touchin
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Sep 14, 2021 23:10
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The Bloop posted:To be honest, random allocation would be both impartial and actually preferable to the current system It would also be pretty fun on average. Like each week you'd just get a shipment of completely random amounts and types of food, taken from the pool of all foods in the world. Sure, occasionally you would starve to death that week because you got real unlucky, but at least who starves to death each week would be distributed across the entire human population instead of conspicuously concentrated in a few poor areas.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:13
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DACK FAYDEN posted:gonna stand by the microwave and just go "My God!" over and over for the first decade I'll just walk around saying "Greetings!"
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Sep 14, 2021 23:19
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Sep 14, 2021 23:28
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Jazerus posted:word i'm sure that the algorithms won't ever do a racism based on the laws passed by the legislature or just entirely accidentally for reasons we can't even determine because being racist is just what AI does
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Sep 15, 2021 00:12
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I mean pattern recognition and category formation is the whole point It happens with human intelligence too, all the time, we just learned to work against it for abstract reasons like justice, fairness, and equity which seem like literally the hardest thing too ever get an AI to "understand"
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Sep 15, 2021 00:38
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Loling at the idea of President John Henry Eden but unironicly said by a filthy computer toucher who wants the Tesla bots to control the nukes
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Sep 15, 2021 00:56
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if it ever gets to that, we better follow it up with a butlerian jihad
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Sep 15, 2021 01:53
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The Bloop posted:I mean pattern recognition and category formation is the whole point yeah but the problem is we can’t figure out why or how the AI becomes racist even when examining the raw data so it’s not even an issue of changing the algorithm or training datasets, it does it anyway
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Sep 15, 2021 06:31
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Sep 15, 2021 06:50
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We replaced a business rule that says "if demo_race=african_american, then mortgage_approval=0" with a collection of linear algebra that returns the same result but sufficiently obfuscates it behind input data sets that correlate with being black like a combination of zip code, name, and credit history such that we can say we're not racist because look, if you give a white guy the exact personal history and cv of a black guy, the system would deny him a home loan too! And then we can say bullshit like this and get away with it:indigi posted:yeah but the problem is we can’t figure out why or how the AI becomes racist even when examining the raw data so it’s not even an issue of changing the algorithm or training datasets, it does it anyway The system works
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Sep 15, 2021 07:02
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Yospos calls it "bias laundering" and I really like that term
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Sep 15, 2021 07:04
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Shame Boy posted:Yospos calls it "bias laundering" and I really like that term The fundamental problem with expecting machine learning that predicts any economic outcome or behavior to not be racist-by-default is that unless you put your thumb on the scale affirmative action style, it's just going to print out ream after ream of paper that says "our society is racist and black/brown/indigenous people individually suffer predictably and consistently worse outcomes as a result." You can't ~the data~ your way out of living in a demon cracker nation. But critically, it's entirely possible to defend yourself legally while you continue to discriminate if you launder it behind math that carefully avoids race but does the exact same poo poo by proxy.
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Sep 15, 2021 07:09
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The Oldest Man posted:We replaced a business rule that says "if demo_race=african_american, then mortgage_approval=0" with a collection of linear algebra that returns the same result but sufficiently obfuscates it behind input data sets that correlate with being black like a combination of zip code, name, and credit history such that we can say we're not racist because look, if you give a white guy the exact personal history and cv of a black guy, the system would deny him a home loan too! And then we can say bullshit like this and get away with it: ty for typing what I wanted to say better than I was about to say it computers are racist because we made them that way
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Sep 15, 2021 07:37
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Well I'm also giving machine learning and hardware development the absolute full benefit of the doubt here They also just do poo poo like training data sets with one black guy out of fifty thousand records because racism, never test the IR scanners to see if they can differentiate a black guy from background noise because racism, and get ground truth data annotation done by a team of racists because of racism. A lot of racism is just being white and lazy and having no reason to be otherwise.
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Sep 15, 2021 07:40
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Shame Boy posted:Yospos calls it "bias laundering" and I really like that term Yeah that pretty well nails it.
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Sep 15, 2021 08:00
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The Oldest Man posted:The fundamental problem with expecting machine learning that predicts any economic outcome or behavior to not be racist-by-default is that unless you put your thumb on the scale affirmative action style, it's just going to print out ream after ream of paper that says "our society is racist and black/brown/indigenous people individually suffer predictably and consistently worse outcomes as a result." You can't ~the data~ your way out of living in a demon cracker nation. The radiology AI example is phenomenal precisely because it manages to be racist without predicting any economic outcome or behavior. It perfectly manages to align its racism with self assessed ethnicity rather than genetic markers and do so even when provided intentionally junk data from which it should not be able to make any conclusions AI is absolutely used to launder racism directly over and over again in other cases but even when it isn't or is being deliberately controlled for it ends up being racist anyway
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Sep 15, 2021 08:16
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On reflection publishing racism.exe was not in line with our company values and we here at united fruit...
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Sep 15, 2021 08:52
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Sep 15, 2021 09:43
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atelier morgan posted:The radiology AI example is phenomenal precisely because it manages to be racist without predicting any economic outcome or behavior. It perfectly manages to align its racism with self assessed ethnicity rather than genetic markers and do so even when provided intentionally junk data from which it should not be able to make any conclusions astonishing, it can actually tell race by tiddy images alone
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Sep 15, 2021 11:36
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FFT posted:buddy,  https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3872665
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Sep 15, 2021 11:58
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Cash value what now?
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Sep 15, 2021 12:02
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Premium entree fee lmao
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Sep 15, 2021 12:09
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Cash value what now? that’s an relic of various old state laws that regulated a kind of customer loyalty program called “trading stamp books”, where you’d get strips of paper stamps of various denominations based on how much money you spent, and you could paste them into notebooks and redeem them for rewards once you filled a book, the precursor to credit card reward points or airline miles many states required that the stamps have a nominal cash value so that someone could exchange them for money instead of a new cooking pot or a transistor radio or whatever, and most of those states’ laws have a broad enough definition of trading stamp that regular coupons are included too
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Sep 15, 2021 13:47
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The Chairman posted:that’s an relic of various old state laws that regulated a kind of customer loyalty program called “trading stamp books”, where you’d get strips of paper stamps of various denominations based on how much money you spent, and you could paste them into notebooks and redeem them for rewards once you filled a book, the precursor to credit card reward points or airline miles Yeah literally every coupon I've seen for any grocery or restaurant or store has said cash value 1/100c It's like a pointless joke now but if they leave it off you end up with a Pepsi caps harrier jet situation
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Sep 15, 2021 14:12
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Just mail your creditors your Arby's coupons. Only 10k coupons to the dollar.
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Sep 15, 2021 14:18
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DarkEuphoria posted:ty for typing what I wanted to say better than I was about to say it did you read the article? we can’t reverse engineer the racism out of AI that looks exclusively at MRIs, obviously we made them that way but the problem is we don’t even understand how when actively trying to make a not racist AI that looks at medical scans, we can’t that’s a much bigger issue
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Sep 15, 2021 14:20
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I think we can't engineer it out without people of color being devs. And cs ain't great at doing that
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Sep 15, 2021 14:25
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The Chairman posted:that’s an relic of various old state laws that regulated a kind of customer loyalty program called “trading stamp books”, where you’d get strips of paper stamps of various denominations based on how much money you spent, and you could paste them into notebooks and redeem them for rewards once you filled a book, the precursor to credit card reward points or airline miles Lol America. (My grandma used to shop at a chain that had trading stamps and she'd let me affix them to the booklet, which I thought was a fun activity because I was like four and kids are stupid.)
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Sep 15, 2021 14:30
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indigi posted:did you read the article? we can’t reverse engineer the racism out of AI that looks exclusively at MRIs, obviously we made them that way but the problem is we don’t even understand how I don't think anyone here believes the solution is "just engineer the racism out", it's obviously "don't put a computer in charge of anything ever"
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Sep 15, 2021 15:07
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No but you see, I am very smart, so my algorithm won't have this problem
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Sep 15, 2021 15:14
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Shame Boy posted:Can't violate the three laws of robotics baked in to your positronic brain if you don't consider any non-white people to be humans because you were trained using a biased dataset! Important to note that the event that triggered the Machine War, (B166-ER going rogue and killing its owner to prevent itself from being deactivated) didn't happen to a random person. It happened to a billionaire.
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Sep 15, 2021 15:18
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Panfilo posted:Important to note that the event that triggered the Machine War, (B166-ER going rogue and killing its owner to prevent itself from being deactivated) didn't happen to a random person. It happened to a billionaire. Beerer did nothing wrong
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Sep 15, 2021 15:28
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indigi posted:did you read the article? we can’t reverse engineer the racism out of AI that looks exclusively at MRIs, obviously we made them that way but the problem is we don’t even understand how
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Sep 15, 2021 15:35
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