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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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VitalSigns posted:The solution to this is the same solution Scandinavian countries have to the maternity leave problem: apply it to both parents and make it mandatory. Zero COVID is not possible with how our Federal, states, and local governments work, and arguably with the infectious capability of current strains, and wishing it were so does not change that fact. The Federal government does not have that power. Thinking that we can make a mandatory parental leave program is also similarly out of touch with reality - not only is that something that has a snowball's chance in Death Valley of being implemented, it would also put a lot of parents further behind in the ways our economy/businesses function.
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Sep 17, 2021 00:11
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Phigs posted:Did you N95s during flu season before COVID? Cause the breath of a vaccinated person who wears a respirator whenever they go outside their home has to be less of a risk to other people than the average person during flu season. Probably even outside of flu season. A half-mask respirator is source control through not becoming a source. They're cheaper, more comfortable (may vary person to person), better for the environment (probably), and provide more protection for the wearer. In the scenario you quoted I'd say the higher protection is more relevant than 1 person having their breath filtered. In that kind of environment it's like pissing in the ocean; might as well maximally protect yourself cause you aren't affecting the environment. That N95s filter your breath more is a benefit, but acting like that makes it strictly superior and implying that the half-mask is an immoral choice is wrong IMO. Like I could go through point by point if you want: covid isn't the flu; the idea that EHMRs provide better personal protection against covid than N95s is speculation (if you have any reliable data to support that conclusion by all means post it, but I believe it's an open question under active investigation at the moment); "source control through not being a source" is sophistry; arguing that protecting one person more is better than source control is a rationalisation that has it exactly backwards as far as controlling disease is concerned; and I'm not arguing that using an EHMR is an immoral choice--I'm arguing that practicing source control is good regardless of who you're protecting or how much you think they have it coming, or how much you think it doesn't really matter, or anything else. But seriously: practice source control. Don't try to come up with elaborate reasons why it's okay for you to not practice source control.
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Sep 17, 2021 00:16
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HonorableTB posted:I was talking to a friend of mine from my hometown, and found out she was unvaxxed. This girl took my virginity eons ago in 2005 and we've fallen in and out of touch several times over the years. Now we're back in touch and I was able to convince her to get vaccinated! She was surrounded by so much fear and disinformation that she was more scared of getting sick from the vaccine than she was of getting covid, and she doesn't have the science literacy to understand good information from bad information, not to mention being surrounded by chuds 24/7 being in West Georgia. hell yeah dude
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Sep 17, 2021 00:17
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HelloSailorSign posted:Zero COVID is not possible with how our Federal, states, and local governments work, and arguably with the infectious capability of current strains, and wishing it were so does not change that fact. The Federal government does not have that power. Also, even if you could somehow enforce a tight lockdown in the US, COVID is in wildlife now, there was that article from a short while ago how it was coming up in deer.
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Sep 17, 2021 00:18
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Well I found out that my wife is going on immune suppressors for a recently diagnosed issue. Be healthy USA has a sale going on right now, 200 for $160. https://behealthyusa.net/products/special-blue-kf94-3d-mask-large-white-adult-size-200pcs-special-free-shipping They also had 100 for 70 but it looks like that might be past.
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Sep 17, 2021 00:35
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Fritz the Horse posted:Also, even if you could somehow enforce a tight lockdown in the US, COVID is in wildlife now, there was that article from a short while ago how it was coming up in deer.
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Sep 17, 2021 00:41
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Tnega posted:If you missed it. I for one can't wait until I get to eat bacon from a pig that had the Coronavirus, packaged by an undocumented immigrant with Coronavirus, that I bought at the store filled with the unmaked who also have the coronavirus. Yeah I'm on a couple USDA mailing lists for work I'm pretty sure there have been announcements of it popping up in other animals. Mink definitely, that was last year. Let me go look in my email. edit: nah just deer recently and mink last year I believe. From USDA at least. But my point was that zero covid is a pipe dream in the US even if we could somehow enforce a strict national lockdown. You're still going to have potential for outbreaks from wildlife. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 00:43
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SubG posted:That's your prerogative, but I think source control is good, even when it's protecting people I disagree with. Yeah, and letting my car idle for any longer than strictly necessary makes me responsible for global warming.  If the relevant authorities utterly refuse to implement meaningful public-health measures, it's more important to look out for my own health. And for the record, I wasn't passing judgment on the people I was briefly sharing Walmart with.
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Sep 17, 2021 00:53
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HelloSailorSign posted:Zero COVID is not possible with how our Federal, states, and local governments work, and arguably with the infectious capability of current strains, and wishing it were so does not change that fact. The Federal government does not have that power. I don't really believe you because I was constantly assured the federal government couldn't mandate vaccines then Biden did it, so this seems like just excuses for inaction. But I do agree America is horribly broken and a million people just have to die of covid because of it.
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Sep 17, 2021 00:57
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tagesschau posted:Yeah, and letting my car idle for any longer than strictly necessary makes me responsible for global warming.
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Sep 17, 2021 01:15
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Relying on source control is awful as a matter of public health policy, particularly as the virus is increasingly prevalent in public spaces and new variants have greater R0. If there is an event with a hundred people and eighty of them are wearing effective gear effective at personal protection, great, at most twenty people will become infected. If insteadd eighty of them are wearing gear effective at source control, well you better hope that every infectious individual is happens to be in the eighty percent, because if you miss one, they could infect nearly everyone present. Public health authorities pushed the concept of source control hard because non‐rated cloth and disposable masks are even more awful at personal protection than they are at source control, but they really ought to have had a plan to transition to real PPE at some point in the last year and a half.
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Sep 17, 2021 01:21
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Platystemon posted:Relying on source control is awful as a matter of public health policy, particularly as the virus is increasingly prevalent in public spaces and new variants have greater R0.
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Sep 17, 2021 01:27
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https://twitter.com/studioincendo/status/1226540536984506369 She has it figured out.
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Sep 17, 2021 01:40
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SubG posted:Covid source control is good. You're tying yourself in knots trying to come up with rationales for not practicing source control. Don't do this. Practice source control in the middle of a pandemic, even if you don't like the people you're protecting, because the virus doesn't care. Hey, could you link the studies for your claims that elastomeric half face respirators are worse protection than disposable N95 masks? Or the ones that they're worse at source control than vented N95s? I would be interested in seeing what your statements are based on. Because as far I can tell, you're building your whole argument off some speculation that a nearest neighbor study means absolutely nothing, and nothing can be learned or inferred from it, or the guidance that was a result of that study. You're trying to apply an insane double standard to anyone who wants to put on a half mask. While the standard for everyone in the US is a optional cloth or surgical mask worn somewhere near the face, you want half mask wearers to filter their exhaled better than anyone outside clean rooms for some reason. Me wearing a mask protects exactly one person, me. No amount of extra poo poo can change that, I can only filter my own air. I toss some extra source control on myself, but I know it means nothing because less than 5% of the people I've seen in the wild are wearing masks that can filter aerosols. It's like we're in a prisoner's dilemma scenario, and everyone else has already slammed betray, are holding BETRAY rallies, wearing shirts that say "I <3 to betray" and you're telling me that it's super important that I personally choose to cooperate. Your advice leads to literally no good out comes for anyone, and potentially a very bad outcome for the health me my loved ones and me.
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Sep 17, 2021 01:52
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Platystemon posted:https://twitter.com/studioincendo/status/1226540536984506369 AND a mask, absolute GOAT
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Sep 17, 2021 01:57
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Meeting Americans where they are:
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Sep 17, 2021 02:00
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jetz0r posted:Hey, could you link the studies for your claims that elastomeric half face respirators are worse protection than disposable N95 masks? Or the ones that they're worse at source control than vented N95s? I would be interested in seeing what your statements are based on.
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Sep 17, 2021 02:01
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Complete shut-ins fully vaccinated and going no contact seem like pretty unlikely covid spreaders regardless of whether they are practicing source control or not, but all the same I think I'm going to restate that the thread standard is essentially N95s should be worn by most people and I'd like us to respect each other's risk assessment choices as much as possible. Thanks y'all!
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Sep 17, 2021 02:11
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The booster is officially delayed: https://abc7news.com/11025927/?ex_c..._source=twitterquote:SAN FRANCISCO (KGO) -- The Food and Drug Administration's advisory committee meeting, scheduled to discuss the future of Pfizer's COVID-19 booster shot, has been pushed back again to late September. This is an unbelievable failure of the Biden administration. How did the President of the United States come out and assure the American public that boosters were coming--even setting a date for their rollout--and then not have his ducks in a row with the CDC and FDA in agreement and working towards that goal. If this kind of failure happened in the corporate world it would be a harsh and fast correction, CEOs have stepped down over less spectacular failures. I really cannot believe how badly the Biden administration is failing the American people with its continued bungling of the virus response.
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Sep 17, 2021 02:59
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mod sassinator posted:The booster is officially delayed: https://abc7news.com/11025927/?ex_c..._source=twitter That's pretty dramatic yo
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Sep 17, 2021 03:14
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sexy tiger boobs posted:That's pretty dramatic yo 2300 Americans are dying a day right now, every mistake like this that happens will be measured with a body count in the thousands. Healthcare workers are now going on more than 8 months since their shots and from all of the Pfizer and Moderna data that's published in the last week, they are at very high risk of breakthrough infections. Both companies see about 6% drop in efficacy every month after the second dose--that's a 48% drop if efficacy. And right now we are forcing these poor folks to throw themselves into more packed and more dangerous hospitals every day. If any healthcare workers die from breakthrough cases it will just magnify the death that we all experience. It's a stunning failure that boosters have been delayed for them this long.
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Sep 17, 2021 03:21
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mod sassinator posted:2300 Americans are dying a day right now, every mistake like this that happens will be measured with a body count in the thousands. Most of those are unvaxxed. Boosters won't help them. mod sassinator posted:Healthcare workers are now going on more than 8 months since their shots and from all of the Pfizer and Moderna data that's published in the last week, they are at very high risk of breakthrough infections. Both companies see about 6% drop in efficacy every month after the second dose--that's a 48% drop if efficacy. And right now we are forcing these poor folks to throw themselves into more packed and more dangerous hospitals every day. If any healthcare workers die from breakthrough cases it will just magnify the death that we all experience. It's a stunning failure that boosters have been delayed for them this long. Have there been studies done specifically for health care worker immunity over time? I'm not an expert but I'd assume that regular exposure to the virus over the course of their work would allow them to maintain a high level of immunity even without boosters.
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Sep 17, 2021 03:36
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Most of those are unvaxxed. Boosters won't help them. I'd be curious to see more info as well. I have a friend who works directly in a covid research lab and she's pretty sure her regular microexposures have made her retain a high level of immunity. Now it's possible that she's a dumbass or doesn't do the kind of research that means anything, but I am definitely likely nowhere near as informed as she is, and she was one of the first people to show me raw delta data and recommend that I continue to mask up for my groceries and such 100% of the time.
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Sep 17, 2021 03:50
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Why again is an N95 with a valve better source control than a surgical mask but half mask isnt?
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Sep 17, 2021 03:58
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Most of those are unvaxxed. Boosters won't help them. Professor Beetus posted:I'd be curious to see more info as well. I have a friend who works directly in a covid research lab and she's pretty sure her regular microexposures have made her retain a high level of immunity. Now it's possible that she's a dumbass or doesn't do the kind of research that means anything, but I am definitely likely nowhere near as informed as she is, and she was one of the first people to show me raw delta data and recommend that I continue to mask up for my groceries and such 100% of the time. Not sure if there's been studies on healthcare workers specifically. The long-term ones I've seen consist of mainly older people who would've got their vaccine earlier. I think nearly all of them show some waning for infection but hardly any change for hospitalisation.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:00
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The Israeli data from Pfizer is healthcare workers, they were the first to get shots. They've been coming down with breakthrough cases with effectively a 6% drop in efficacy every month post 2nd shot. 'Microexposure' with viruses is something I have never heard of in my life. Think about how catastrophic it would be to the lab if what you are saying were true. So the lab is so sloppy with PPE, handling, protections, etc. that it's just exposing all the workers a little bit to dangerous pathogens? This isn't radiation--one viron has the potential to start a full infection.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:00
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There is also literally no way a surgical mask (which I can feel air escaping on the outside) is better source control than a pressure checked half mask with a piece of cloth over the exhale valve.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:01
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The vaccines are still fine at preventing severe disease there's very little loss there, it's the efficacy in completely stopping symptomatic infection that's waning some. Also, note that it's the pharma companies that are pushing booster shots the hardest, experts are mixed on whether it's all that beneficial right now. From the very article you link: quote:"It will cause a minor delay to our rollout," Desi Kotis, UCSF's Chief Pharmacy Executive. Same thing with the Pfizer vaccine, it's Pfizer itself that is pushing strongest for third shots for the general population.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:04
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Most of those are unvaxxed. Boosters won't help them. The exact issue is the American (and many decayed European) systems are hamstrung by a sort primative Christian republicanism, which sees humans as individual actors who must demonstrate their goodness via choice. The countries which will emerge on to the stage of the 21st century have already solved this.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:12
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"I agree for certain populations" is code for "boosters work and if you want to have the highest vaccine protection you get boosters". They're waffling over whether it should be public health policy for people to get them. Whether they're effective from a societal point. For the individual there is no waffling.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:14
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Vasukhani posted:The exact issue is the American (and many decayed European) systems are hamstrung by a sort primative Christian republicanism, which sees humans as individual actors who must demonstrate their goodness via choice. The countries which will emerge on to the stage of the 21st century have already solved this. What do you mean?
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Sep 17, 2021 04:15
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:What do you mean? They need to be forcing vaccination and removing anti-vax governments from power. If Al-Qaeda took over Florida and did daily 9/11s I think the US would probably nuke them. That's such a more important topic than boosters. It's like handing out one sandbag to each house in a town about to be flooded, and then telling them they can get more sand in the sandbag soon if it is approved, instead of organizing dam building. wisconsingreg fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 04:18
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Vasukhani posted:They need to be forcing vaccination and removing anti-vax governments from power. If Al-Qaeda took over Florida and did daily 9/11s I think the US would probably nuke them. That's such a more important topic than boosters. It's like handing out one sandbag to each house in a town about to be flooded, and then telling them they can get more sand in the sandbag soon if it is approved, instead of organizing dam building. How do you suggest removing the government of Florida from power? Other than suggesting that if DeSantis was Al-Qaeda the state would get nuked or something.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:22
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Besides the HCW studies that have already been discussed, there's this study showing declining antibody levels in HCWs. They seem to track with the similar antibody declines in the general population studies, suggesting that any HCW exposures aren't keeping antibodies up, at least. It does make sense because strict PPE use means they are likely aren't exposed more than say, your average service worker. The CDC also has VE estimates over time for HCWs, but the sample size is unfortunately pretty small, uses minimal covariate adjustments, and it's not possible to separate the effects of Delta from >5 month declines. There were moderate declines at 4 months, but the small sample size makes it impossible to say much. It also has this bit that I have no idea how it got past internal review: quote:...however the VE 95% CI were overlapping, indicating the difference was not statistically significant.  Charles 2 of Spain posted:Not sure if there's been studies on healthcare workers specifically. The long-term ones I've seen consist of mainly older people who would've got their vaccine earlier. I think nearly all of them show some waning for infection but hardly any change for hospitalisation. Most of what I've seen has shown waning VE vs infection, but have far too small of sample sizes to say anything definitive about hospitalization. So far I haven't seen any that offer good evidence that protection v severe disease doesn't decline either, just that it's probably not by as much as the more severe estimates of VE v infection decline (which would be consistent with the immunological results). I haven't had time to keep up with everything, though, so it's possible there's something I missed!
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Sep 17, 2021 04:27
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Ban all air travel to Florida at the federal level. They will fold within hours, maybe minutes. Florida is dead without tourism.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:27
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mod sassinator posted:The Israeli data from Pfizer is healthcare workers, they were the first to get shots. They've been coming down with breakthrough cases with effectively a 6% drop in efficacy every month post 2nd shot. I was skeptical as all hell but I am certainly not a subject matter expert by any means. The most critical I got to her face was that regardless of her confidence level, I recommend she still continue to use an appropriate level of caution. She's fairly low risk of covid, unfortunately she's a sport bike rider so uh covid might not necessarily be the worst risk assessment she currently has. Vasukhani posted:There is also literally no way a surgical mask (which I can feel air escaping on the outside) is better source control than a pressure checked half mask with a piece of cloth over the exhale valve. N95s and KN94s are not surgical masks and a properly fitted one will be a fine amount of protection for the vaccinated goon in most cases, and is currently the DND Covid-19 thread general recommendation.. Not everyone here lives in the same place however and some circumstances may dictate a different level of protection and risk assessment. It's fine to discuss all this but make sure you're listening to the points people are making instead of something no one is saying (that surgical masks offer satisfactory protection from covid). Thanks everyone. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 04:29
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mod sassinator posted:Ban all air travel to Florida at the federal level. They will fold within hours, maybe minutes. Florida is dead without tourism. Or just require proof of vaccination for flights, which actually is within the executive branch's authority.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:29
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Fritz the Horse posted:How do you suggest removing the government of Florida from power? Other than suggesting that if DeSantis was Al-Qaeda the state would get nuked or something. If the US federal government cannot impose an extremely simple public health measure on a subnational unit I think it's time to consider the country done. Not like it will Balkanize in 100 years, but like, already non existent. Image how such a consideration would look in any other country.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:30
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Vasukhani posted:If the US federal government cannot impose an extremely simple public health measure on a subnational unit I think it's time to consider the country done. Not like it will Balkanize in 100 years, but like, already non existent. Image how such a consideration would look in any other country. Federalism is nothing new.
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Sep 17, 2021 04:31
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Professor Beetus posted:I was skeptical as all hell but I am certainly not a subject matter expert by any means. The most critical I got to her face was that regardless of her confidence level, I recommend she still continue to use an appropriate level of caution. She's fairly low risk of covid, unfortunately she's a sport bike rider so uh covid might not necessarily be the worst risk assessment she currently has. Any parent can tell you that frequent exposure to disease just means you get sick more often 
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Sep 17, 2021 04:32
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