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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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The FDA just voted NO on boosters.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:30
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| # ? May 24, 2024 22:07 |
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mod sassinator posted:Yes, why should the FDA amplify antivaxxers under any circumstances? Then they just say "Look the FDA censored us from presenting the truth!" The solution here is kicking people who deliberately spread misinformation off these platforms, not attacking a government agency for their public comment policy. Could the FDA splash a "PUBLIC COMMENT DOES NOT REPRESENT FDA VIEWS" box on there in bright red letters? Probably, but anti-vaxxers are going to spread misinformation using their platforms regardless.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:30
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It cannot be emphasized enough how much the FDA has failed the American people. Israel's warning is DIRE and that severe illness and death is coming for vaccinated people in a few months Folks, use this knowledge however you please. Remember every single pharmacy in this country is currently handing out vaccine boosters to immoncompromised people. It might be time to discuss with your doctor concerns you have about being immunocompromised in the face of waning immunity and the delta variant.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:32
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mod sassinator posted:It cannot be emphasized enough how much the FDA has failed the American people. Israel's warning is DIRE and that severe illness and death is coming for vaccinated people in a few months Being immunocompromised is not remotely the same thing as having waning vaccine immunity. This was discussed earlier in the thread with the difference between "additional" shots (which immuno-suppressed or immunocompromised people need) and "booster" shots for the general population. You're essentially suggesting posters lie to pharmacies and doctors to get boosters.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:37
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My sister's coworker who works as an X-ray tech in an ER got his Pfizer booster last night and got fuckin rekd apparently, worse than the first dose. Fun. Think my sister is going to wait and see based on that; she got her flu shot last night instead.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:37
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If anyone wants some positive news: https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-epi-confirmed-cases-post-vaccination.pdf Recent public health study (as of September 4th) on breakthrough cases here in Ontario. Notably for the fully vaccinated, there hasn't been a single breakthrough death in under 50s, and only one ICU admission in the same age group since the vaccination campaign began (although there have been a handful of hospitalizations but still, quite minimal). What breakthrough deaths there have been are massively concentrated in the 80+ demographic.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:38
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Fritz the Horse posted:You're essentially suggesting posters lie to pharmacies and doctors to get boosters. Absolutely not. Do not put words in my mouth. I specifically said talk to your doctor about your concerns.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:39
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https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/1438949152222760966
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Sep 17, 2021 20:40
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mod sassinator posted:It cannot be emphasized enough how much the FDA has failed the American people. Israel's warning is DIRE and that severe illness and death is coming for vaccinated people in a few months This is ridiculous fearmongering as well as advocating for people to essentially try to manipulate doctors into giving them a booster and you should be ashamed of posting it.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:41
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FDA IS IN THE PARKETS OF BIG....chiro I guess?
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Sep 17, 2021 20:42
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NYT confirmation on the vote, if anyone wants itquote:The committee voted 16 to 3 after holding an intense daylong public discussion on whether booster shots are necessary and if so, for whom. The Biden administration has been hoping the F.D.A. would approve a third shot of the Pfizer vaccine in time to begin rolling out boosters for Pfizer recipients next week. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/09/17/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine The article goes on to summarize some of the testimony.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:42
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mod sassinator posted:Absolutely not. Do not put words in my mouth. I specifically said talk to your doctor about your concerns. You specifically said "It might be time to discuss with your doctor concerns you have about being immunocompromised" If you meant that people who ARE immunocompromised should talk to their doctor, absolutely 100% agreed. If you mean that people who are not on immunosuppressive drugs or going through a small list of procedures (basically cancer treatments) that cause them to be immune compromised should be saying that they're immune compromised, that is lying to get a booster, and specifically lying to get a booster for a reason that is completely unrelated to waning vaccine effectiveness. Edit: I realize you may have meant that otherwise healthy people should be expressing concerns that they may become immunocompromised down the road, in which case your doctor is likely going to laugh you out of the room unless they are a complete quack, as the whole point of the boosters is to make up for reduced effectiveness of the 1st and 2nd shots. enki42 fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 20:43
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enki42 posted:If you meant that people who ARE immunocompromised should talk to their doctor, absolutely 100% agreed. This is exactly what I said. Only your doctor can declare you immunocompromised and everyone should discuss the matter with them to find their opinion and recommendation. At no point have I said you should lie to anyone, including your doctor. It would be lunacy to try lying to your doctor as they can directly evaluate and see your condition.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:49
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Tayter Swift posted:My sister's coworker who works as an X-ray tech in an ER got his Pfizer booster last night and got fuckin rekd apparently, worse than the first dose. Fun. My booster (Moderna 4 months after my Pfizer shots) was roughly the same or slightly worse than my 2nd Pfizer shot. Chills, some overall body aches, and my injection arm was more sore. The worst of the effects were cleared up by the time I woke up the next day, but I was still feeling a little under the weather the next day. About as bad a mild hang over on the 2nd day. Felt fine after that. My mom got wrecked by the 2nd shot for a few days, but the booster was only one day of feeling bad, so she got it easier. The cspam thread's anecdotal reports mostly agree that the 3 shot is about the same as the 2nd.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:49
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Given the Israeli data presented directly to the committee by top Israeli scientists regarding breakthrough severe and fatal cases after the 6 month mark, this is a bitter disappointment.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:53
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poll plane variant posted:Given the Israeli data presented directly to the committee by top Israeli scientists regarding breakthrough severe and fatal cases after the 6 month mark, this is a bitter disappointment. Personally I won't be convinced until I personally see some more death. It really is a wait and see situation
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Sep 17, 2021 20:54
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Discendo Vox posted:You do not know anything about how public comment works, and you are looking for and recirculating things you can abuse to reinforce your prior beliefs. ...so no direct rebuttal to his points, I take it
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Sep 17, 2021 20:56
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mod sassinator posted:This is exactly what I said. Only your doctor can declare you immunocompromised and everyone should discuss the matter with them to find their opinion and recommendation. Being immunocompromised to the degree where a 3rd dose is recommend isn't really a diagnosis requiring investigation. Unless you're on a specific set of drugs (which you'll be well aware compromise your immune system), cancer treatments (ditto), or have diseases you're almost certainly going to be aware of (late stage HIV, some genetic disorders) a 3rd dose is not generally recommended.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:57
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Rosalind posted:Then they just say "Look the FDA censored us from presenting the truth!" This is largely the right of it I think. Public comment is public comment, where anti-vaxxers should banned from is places like twitter and facebook where there misinfo is deliberately being signal boosted by zuck and twitter jack. If you had to watch cspam and not rely on a twitter feed of bloviating dunning kruger cases hysterically pushing garbage at gullible laypeople, there would be far fewer people exposed to this poo poo. Facebook and twiiter should be dismantled and the internet needs to be a regulated public utility. That said unless you go full China on the internet I'm not sure this is a genie that can be put back in the bottle and it certainly contributes to my general cynicism regarding the effectiveness of our institutions to solve the problem. Our government moves at 5 mph cautiously watching for speedbumps while half of the occupants are gremlins stripping parts out of the engine as fast as they can, and somehow we can manage a deadly pandemic and the control the constant cascade of misinformation? Thanks for the good news posts too, folks. I have noticed things heat up when people start forgetting to pay their taxes, pls comply, and also try to take it down a notch: 
Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 20:57
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It’s good to see the FDA is ignoring the science. At least they are now consistent with the CDC and the rest of America.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:57
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lil poopendorfer posted:...so no direct rebuttal to his points, I take it It's a public comment meeting. it's for comment from the public. The government straight up cannot do the things you are demanding, and you are demanding them, in bad faith, on the basis of their bad faith abuse by others.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:01
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lil poopendorfer posted:...so no direct rebuttal to his points, I take it It's like trying to explain the sum total of infectious disease knowledge, disease outbreak scenarios, etc., to someone who doesn't even have a biology background (let alone a research/medicine background) and who decided they read some tweets from people who got some letters after their Twitter handle and have an opinion which should be discussed completely and fully. "No, go back and make sure you actually understand the things you're talking about" is about people (and maybe not even people in this thread!) having exhausted the patience of those who actually do know what they're talking about after 1.5 years of dealing with, "baby's first exposure to research and medical therapy development."
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Sep 17, 2021 21:05
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Discendo Vox posted:It's a public comment meeting. it's for comment from the public. The government straight up cannot do the things you are demanding, and you are demanding them, in bad faith, on the basis of their bad faith abuse by others. Maybe not have the big “FDA” logo next to it at the very least. There are at least steps the FDA can take other than allowing full PowerPoint presentations from Anti-vaxxors and then go on to ignoring data from scientists. That’s just me though.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:05
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Maybe not have the big “FDA” logo next to it at the very least. There are at least steps the FDA can take other than allowing full PowerPoint presentations and then ignoring data from scientists to allow more people to get sick and die. That’s just me though. Every part of this was already addressed, multiple times. You've not responded to any of the effort or knowledge of the people in this thread with expertise who have explained how these things actually work.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:07
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Discendo Vox posted:It's a public comment meeting. it's for comment from the public. The government straight up cannot do the things you are demanding, and you are demanding them, in bad faith, on the basis of their bad faith abuse by others. the government can do whatever they want, they set and enforce the rules. What does "bad faith" mean?
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Sep 17, 2021 21:08
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Fritz the Horse posted:What is supposed to be "garbage" about those stats? I'm missing something here. Unfortunately, 90-day risk is useless without context in an epidemic that comes and goes in waves that infect double-digit proportions of the population. The important missing bit is which 90 days are being used as baseline risk of infection. Since pre-Delta hospitalization risk after infection for a healthy 30-year-old woman is ~1.6% (from multiple hospitalization risk models), I'm guessing that they're using pre-Delta conditional risk values and assuming 1% of healthy 30-yo women will be infected over 90 days. Given that we infected somewhere around 7% of the US population in the last two months and that Delta doubles hospitalization (and maybe death) rates, those assumptions seem pretty untenable. Plus, 90 days is a weirdly short time period to use when the real questions are "how often will I contract COVID under current trends and various mitigation strategies?" and "How serious will it be when I contract it?" Those are tougher questions to answer because there are a lot of unknowns, but the answers are almost certainly less rosy than the slide's overly-optimistic estimation of "90-day risk". I don't know the context of that slide, but I don't see how it's useful for anything except what it's being used for now - dumbass anti-vax propaganda. E: Spent too long typing and missed that the slide was from a dumbass anti-vaxxer too, lol. Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 21:09
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that Dr. Eli David twitter account appears to be an anti-vaxxer or vaccine skeptic so be careful with your sources?
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Maybe not have the big “FDA” logo next to it at the very least. There are at least steps the FDA can take other than allowing full PowerPoint presentations from Anti-vaxxors and then go on to ignoring data from scientists. That’s just me though. "Did not reach the conclusion I think they should have" is not the same as "ignoring data" or "ignoring science." The evaluation of actual scientists and experts in the FDA does not match yours. They may certainly be wrong, but consider we're basically at https://twitter.com/dril/status/650184561045995520?lang=en edit: Stickman posted:Unfortunately, 90-day risk is useless without context in an epidemic that comes and goes in waves that infect double-digit proportions of the population. The important missing bit is which 90 days are being used as baseline risk of infection. Since pre-Delta hospitalization risk after infection for a healthy 30-year-old woman is ~1.6% (from multiple hospitalization risk models), I'm guessing that they're using pre-Delta conditional risk values and assuming 1% of healthy 30-yo women will be infected over 90 days. Given that we infected somewhere around 7% of the US population in the last two months and that Delta doubles hospitalization (and maybe death) rates, those assumptions seem pretty untenable. Yeah I wasn't watching the meeting so wasn't sure what the objection was when I posted what you quote. The antivaxxers were misrepresenting that 90-day statistic to claim vaccines are more dangerous than COVID or something, and because it's public comment they're allowed to display their own slides. The tweet omitted the 90-day bit entirely because the twitter account is an Israeli vaccine skeptic. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 21:09
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Discendo Vox posted:It's a public comment meeting. it's for comment from the public. The government straight up cannot do the things you are demanding, and you are demanding them, in bad faith, on the basis of their bad faith abuse by others. virtualboyCOLOR posted:Maybe not have the big “FDA” logo next to it at the very least. There are at least steps the FDA can take other than allowing full PowerPoint presentations from Anti-vaxxors and then go on to ignoring data from scientists. That’s just me though. I hate to do this but since things are getting a little bit spicy why don't put a pin in this for now? I think most folks can agree with the sentiment behind these two posts. The government has to allow for public comments, this is a part of having a representative democracy. The FDA could have taken steps to make it clear to people that those were slides from a person presenting a slideshow as part of their public comment, in order to provide fodder for anti-vax hustlers. Both of those takes seem reasonable enough that I think we can put a pin in it for now. If that's off base, let me know.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:10
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I have to say that this thread is a bit exhausting. It feels like any rational discourse is drowned out by people with extreme views. I totally get that this is an emotionally charged and scary topic, but it's tough to engage with this thread from a scientific background. I'm going to step back again. If anyone has any specific and earnest epi questions, please feel free to PM me.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:11
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Hell yeah, got that Moderna coursing through my veins, baby!
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Sep 17, 2021 21:11
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Israel presented some very compelling data.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:11
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mod sassinator posted:This is exactly what I said. Only your doctor can declare you immunocompromised and everyone should discuss the matter with them to find their opinion and recommendation. Being immunocompromised is not like bankruptcy. You don't get to just declare it. You either are for a series of specific reasons, or you are not. Being anxious about covid is not one of those conditions, but you could and should talk to a professional about anxiety because there are treatments for it.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:14
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Professor Beetus posted:
Broadly, I kinda wonder about that. Most cases involving public comments actually seem to turn out to be undemocratic, since they give advantage to people with lots of time on their hands (see e.g. all the "grassroots anti-CRT protests").... and, frankly, the point of the FDA is to make professional decisions, so what you and me think isn't likely to be very material?
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Sep 17, 2021 21:16
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Professor Beetus posted:I hate to do this but since things are getting a little bit spicy why don't put a pin in this for now? Fair enough. Next topic on the colossal gently caress up the FDA just did is this: https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1438956151593443336?s=20 To assume this wouldn’t be the case would be a gently caress up on the level of the CDC dropping the mask mandate. It will only worsen if the FDA approves it for folks 60+ because it will appear that the folks voting down boosters care more about themselves than average Americans. It already appears that way with congress since they already got their third shot (see Greg Abbott).
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Sep 17, 2021 21:16
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Are there really no centralized records in the U.S. of who's gotten what vaccine? You have to be looked up in a system here before you get any dose here. I suppose you could probably try to sneak into one of the clinics for undocumented people, but those are pretty sparse and you'd have to go out of your way to make that happen.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:19
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enki42 posted:Are there really no centralized records in the U.S. of who's gotten what vaccine? You have to be looked up in a system here before you get any dose here. I suppose you could probably try to sneak into one of the clinics for undocumented people, but those are pretty sparse and you'd have to go out of your way to make that happen. We have them on a state level but they're like a joke and for instance they spelled my name so wrong the records are for a person that doesn't exist
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Sep 17, 2021 21:20
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The only federal vaccine record that I'm aware of is the yellow card and that's just a piece of paper I don't think you're in any system for it
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Sep 17, 2021 21:21
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Yeah, ours are provincial as well, but sounds like they're definitely adhered to more for administering vaccines (it's probably helpful that everyone has an id number for health insurance)
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Sep 17, 2021 21:22
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Fair enough. To be fair there is more compelling evidence that much older folks didn't get the same level of protection from the first two shots as people and may need a booster. An 80 year old's immune system doesn't respond the same way as a 35 year old. Like the Ontario data I posted before, there have been a number if breakthrough deaths in the 80+ range up here but not a single one under 50. Maybe that will change over time but as of now that evidence points more heavily towards "Give people over 80 another shot" than "Give people under 50 another shot". It's like with the immunocompromised or transplant patients, it's not a one size fits all strategy.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:23
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So many Americans just don't exist on paper or at least can't prove they do. Millions probably.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:23
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