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Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
I feel like Thresh would be a good hook support for learning the game.

Nautilus if you want a hook support that is the easiest possible hook support and hard to mess up (while most still only hit walls with the hook 50% of the time)

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Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

Learn how to play support solely by playing 1000 games as Janna, and you will become the best league of legends player in this thread.

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

Hellioning posted:

I can't imagine why someone would discourage someone from learning Ezreal because it teaches bad habits and then encourage people to learn the champion that teaches the worst habits in the game.

you can learn more playing yuumi than by playing ezreal. hot take. nobody is allowed to disagree with me and i will not explain this position

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

I feel like Thresh would be a good hook support for learning the game.

Nautilus if you want a hook support that is the easiest possible hook support and hard to mess up (while most still only hit walls with the hook 50% of the time)

i think thresh is a great champion if you have fundamentals and macro skill already but if you dont hes rough, and while i love nautilus, nautilus is a dirty champion in a way that blitz isnt. you can deconstruct hook with walk up uppercut and hold the hook to catch flash, but primarily blitz is just you press w to run fast, hook, e to knock up, and ult. its clean, and it teaches the fundamentals of how to play a hook champion

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

pog boyfriend posted:

you can learn more playing yuumi than by playing ezreal. hot take. nobody is allowed to disagree with me and i will not explain this position

You can also throw Yuumi directly into the dumpster along with Zoe and Seraphine, and your life will be substantially improved.

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

The Shortest Path posted:

You can also throw Yuumi directly into the dumpster along with Zoe and Seraphine, and your life will be substantially improved.

tsp im going to write you an official warning, i specifically said you arent allowed to disagree with me. either type "so true pog" or move on.

Monicro
Oct 21, 2010

And you could feel his features in the air
A wide smile and perfect hair
He had complete control of the rising tides
And a medicine bag hanging at his side

In the flowing blue world of the death-dealing physician

pog boyfriend posted:

i think thresh is a great champion if you have fundamentals and macro skill already but if you dont hes rough, and while i love nautilus, nautilus is a dirty champion in a way that blitz isnt. you can deconstruct hook with walk up uppercut and hold the hook to catch flash, but primarily blitz is just you press w to run fast, hook, e to knock up, and ult. its clean, and it teaches the fundamentals of how to play a hook champion

While we're all nitpicking I think cait is to thresh what ashe is to blitz here for adc; caitlyn is indeed incredibly good for learning ADC skills but ashe is way more forgiving if you're still developing fundamentals. nautilus is uhhh *rifling through list of adcs* tristana

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

pog boyfriend posted:

tsp im going to write you an official warning, i specifically said you arent allowed to disagree with me. either type "so true pog" or move on.

I'm sorry my friend, you're right about most things but I have to take a stand here. You can't keep getting away with this.

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

Monicro posted:

While we're all nitpicking I think cait is to thresh what ashe is to blitz here for adc; caitlyn is indeed incredibly good for learning ADC skills but ashe is way more forgiving if you're still developing fundamentals. nautilus is uhhh *rifling through list of adcs* tristana

while this is true i think for adc in particular its extremely important to learn fundamental skills because thats really all you have, in a way that isnt true of other lanes. you have to have extremely sharp positioning. ashe has a powerful teamfight ult and caitlyn doesnt so i think caitlyn is better for learning what adc has to do in order to be effective. in time you prospective adc players may be as confident as me, pog boyfriend, the person who slam picks no flash kogmaw

Archenteron
Nov 3, 2006

:marc:

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

I feel like Thresh would be a good hook support for learning the game.

Thresh's slight windup before his hook compared to Naut and Blitz might throw off people's timing/aiming

rabidsquid
Oct 11, 2004

LOVES THE KOG


pog boyfriend posted:

being an adc top feels great until your jungle kayn goes blue and your support lux has a mejais and you are forced to live in your zero peel/front line reality

so its the exact same as being a normal adc but you're higher level

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Archenteron posted:

Thresh's slight windup before his hook compared to Naut and Blitz might throw off people's timing/aiming

It is trickier to use, but it teaches you one of League's most important elements: the ability to hide your intent. The fact that Thresh doesn't snap to his hook direction until after his windup means that you can pretend to be going for one person while aiming your hook at another. That's a pretty specific example, admittedly, but this sort of thing shows up on almost every champion in League, and is critical for baiting out cooldowns, disguising incoming ganks, reducing the amount of time people have to react, and being able to otherwise bluff on an empty hand.

rabidsquid
Oct 11, 2004

LOVES THE KOG


90% of the player base is too bad to worry about using tricks on them when you can just aim skillshots at them and hit them almost all of the time

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



GreyPowerVan's Great Big Guide To Kayle, Abridged, First edition

Back up, this is my tower to siege
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLuAFqTwa7k

So do you like playing midlane, but you hate the assassin/bruiser meta? Tired of facing sett, yasuo, zed, akshan, and trist EVERY game? Do you have the hands (and brain) of a boomer, so you can't learn how to play character released after 2011? Want to play an ADC but you can't play an ADC because your team is 4 AD?

Congratulations,

Kayle,
The Righteous,
Bringer of Justice,
Winged Protector of Demacia


may be the right champion for you.

Here are some of the powers you can unlock if you play KAYLE well.



KAYLE isn't always the right pick-- she struggles mightily into mage characters, but since there are none of those in mid currently, you can blind pick her.

Reasoning

The current meta of everyone playing roaming assassins(talon, zed, leblanc) or scaling champions(trynd, nasus, kassadin) is a meta that is very favorable to Kayle. She has a fairly strong level 1 and 2, then a weak earlygame until level 6, where you can start playing the game again. When you hit 11, then 16, you become so powerful that the enemy team will have to send 2-3 people to deal with your splitpush, or will lose teamfights to your team.

I think she's actually a super strong pick right now, just underplayed.

She can play AP or AD, depending on enemy comp, your comp, how the games going, personal pref... pretty much everything scales on AP and AD, and your Q does mr/armor shred.

What lane to play KAYLE?
Kayle is a weak early, scaling late character. She has a higher carry capacity than most ADCs, and her most important thing to scale is levels. Thus, midlane, where the short lane allows you to get exp even when zoned off, is ideal. Also, its so short that you can't be chased down, and you might actually get kills from people trying to hit you under turret and tanking tower shots.

THE BUILD
There are three builds I go on Kayle, but only two I do often. AP is a better lategame build in most cases, but AD is good when you're being dove and killed a lot. It comes online earlier, does less AOE damage, and plays more like a normal ADC.

Summoner Spells - Just go Teleport/Flash

Starting Items - I go a somewhat unorthodox starting item of Doran's Blade in 90% of games. The AD helps you fight people early, the omnivamp is amazing as a stat for Kayle, and you normally don't want to be running out of mana in lane.
If you're against an ADC midlane, you start cloth and 4 potions and get an early Seeker's Armguard. Against someone like Sett who wants to run you down, Doran's Ring for more Q's is not bad. If you're against poison people, just go Corrupting or Doran's Shield.

Skill leveling order
R>E>Q>W - With some caveats. If you're laning vs a melee or someone who will try to super chase you down/engage in lane, or the jungler is hovering your lane a ton, you can go 3 points in Q before maxing E. The slow scales up very fast and the shred is great for ganks.

AP Build - The OG. This is the main Kayle build I go in 80% of games. It has a weak earlygame, an okay midgame, and an incredible lategame. Your main point to this build is the 3-hit burst off of auto auto e-auto. The AP scaling off of your W gives you insanely high movespeed to get in and out and pop someone for half their hp.

Runes


The standard. Swap your defensive shard depending on who you're fighting.

If you have a free lane and they have a lot of tanks, you can swap secondary to taste of blood/ravenous hunter. If you're against an AP who doesn't threaten you too hard, you can go nullifying orb/gathering storm. I recommend just sticking to standard build though.

Core items
Nashor's Tooth
Berzerker's Greaves
Riftmaker


After these three items, you can do useful stuff in teamfights. You're already a good execute bot on any one under 30% with just Nashors, but the damage buff from Riftmaker means you can start to win out longer teamfights. Your ultimate is a very potent threat with AP kayle, doing 500+ damage in an AOE at level 11. Just make sure you don't get caught without enough mana to use ult!

Options Afterwards
Deathcap- ahead, massive damage
Void Staff - Did they build a single MR item? void staff baby, also cheap item
Lichbane - Worse deathcap in most situations
Zhonya - assassins, 4 AD, etc.
Cosmic Drive - Gives movespeed and more w's, leading to more movespeed. Tanks trying to dive you? just cosmic drive yourself away from them while spamming taunts.


The best third item is Deathcap, it's just a loving MASSIVE pile of damage, scales your healing, your attack speed, your burst, your movespeed. All around a great item on kayle. I say I would go it third in like 75% of games.

AD Build - This is the one I don't do very often. It's a standard ADC but with an invincibility ult and an execute. Your ult isn't as much burst as the other build, so you use it more defensively. It's easier to play for most of the game, imo. You won't play it often since everyone is picking AD top jg and bottom.

Runes


Same as before, you can swap secondaries around if you need to. This build gives you massive lifestealing and shielding, but you can always go green secondary with bone plating and revitalize or something to survive laning easier. I do not recommend Gathering Storm on AD Kayle, ever.

Core items
Shieldbow
Berzerker's Greaves

That's it. Thats the core.

Options Afterwards
Phantom Dancer - Lots of attack speed, ghosting, damage, crit chance. This is my go-to second item.
Infinity Edge - If you have 40% crit, just go IE next most of the time. It's damage. You know ADC items.
Bloodthirster - A great last item to continue your drain tank dominance. When Shieldbow pops, it gives you more AD and you will heal to full instantly.
Lord Dominik's Regards - Does the enemy have ANY armor items? Go LDR
Wit's End - Good against AP mid/jg, or 3 AP overall. Not bad even against 2 AP. get this right after shieldbow if you're getting it.
Essence Reaver into Stormrazor - I've seen this build a few times, but haven't tried it myself. seems like less sustained damage for a big burst at start.

The Forbidden Technique - A build I haven't seen besides from me, but I love it. Actually so fun to play. Really good sustained damage, good burst, absurd objective clear. Only downside is less sustain.

I go this if we have heavy AP already and I want to play a lategame hypercarry.

Runes
Same as AP generally.

Core Items
MANAMUNE
Berzerker's Greaves
Wits End (vs 2 AP or more)/ Nashor's tooth otherwise (or you can skip and move on with the build, finishing with LDR/PD/Runaans)
Rageblade
Shieldbow/Kraken Slayer
Blade of the Ruined King


Manamune looks troll, but it gives you a decent amount of AD for earlygame, and the on-hit gets strong when its finished. You basically buy a tear on your first back and just work on stacking it with Q's and W's (onto your jungler). This helps you with early laning phase, because Kayle skills cost a TON of mana. You scale a little slower than the AD build, but probably similarly to AP.


How to play Kayle

Get EXP. Seriously, losing 6 minions and keeping full health is generally better than losing half your hp to get the 6 minions. Don't worry, they'll end up pushing it in, its a lot harder to set up a freeze midlane because you can poke and lasthit with Q and E. If they have a serious freeze setup, ask your jungle to gank. PTA + your E execute is a huge burst and will be unexpected.

At level 1 and 2, you are actually quite strong. If someone goes to lasthit and tries to slap you a few times, just q auto auto E. It will do about 30%, and if they try to fight you instead of backing off, hold your E to kill them. A lot of the time you will just straight up kill people who are weak early, like lux/kassadin/etc. If you do this, DON'T get cocky. you'll be up 400g and they'll still be stronger than you come level 3. Just get your items continue to be safe, and keep farming.

When your jungle wants to contest scuttle, ping them off and keep farming. Go to help if they insist on fighting it, but normally you'd rather be in lane. If your laner roams, congrats, you get a free lane. You take plates and beat their rear end when they come back to lane. At 6, you will win most fights with good use of your R. You can use all your abilities, then R, and q and e will be back up for the after R fight. It's very common for someone to be bullying you all lane, you come back with berzerkers and level 6, and then you just run them down with your w and autoattack them until they're dead.

If your laner roams to top, spam ping the dragon. Kayle has some great dps to objectives with autoattacks. Your main job is to farm until 11, at that point you can start farming your own lanes followed by jungle camps. the aoe attack is so powerful for power clearing. You're already a big threat in teamfights, just stay safe. When you hit about 14/15, stop fighting unless its for soul or something just as important. Ping your exp percent and ask team to wait for 16.

At 16, congratulations, you win the game. I hope you're ready to 3hit every ADC from outside their own range, melt tanks in mere seconds, and pop 3 enemy flashes by flashing forward.

I actually do win a lot of teamfights lategame by noticing their adc SLIGHTLY out of position, flashing forward to 3shot them, then ulting and spamming taunt.

Some videos

Kayle at 1 item can still delete people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcgKsYXjQKw

Here, I am level 5 vs a Talon who just hit 6. I know that I'll hit 6 off of the cannon, so I don't want to run away too quickly. A simple ult bait later and you've solo killed the assassin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQfPNSHsqZg

Yasuo roamed and they did get a successful dive kill on Gangplank. I got his tier 1 and tier 2 tower in the meantime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iyQhkXfnP8

Here, Yasuo thought he was safe to flash Q at me -- even if he missed, he just walks away, right? Not so much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt8lbplt8Ug

Here Kassadin is still not understanding the power of press the attack + kayle's E after i killed him at level 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNUMGj1Xx-c

This is why you go cloth+4 vs early AD powerhouses. His full combo does nothing to me, then me and my six very good friends (the minions) kill him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyl4hW-ItQ8

Your ult is great for dives, just make sure you dance around edge of tower (and get low enough to bait them)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrFSy_FugPI

I just died and tped back to lane. Earlygame yasuo doesnt have enough attack speed to get a second tornado built up if he doesn't ult off the first one, so you fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbmGq_P2m3g

And finally, a full game vod of Kayle vs Ryze. It's not her worst matchup but laning phase always feels miserable. I was pre-tilted from thinking of laning phase so i made some mistakes, but more importantly stayed safe and gave up CS until i was strong enough to beat him down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZs0jtn3to4

SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Sep 17, 2021

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
Support is a bit of a paradox in that it's one of the most influential roles in the game but also the role you stick your worst player in so they don't do too much damage to your chances of winning.

Torchlighter
Jan 15, 2012

I Got Kids. I need this.

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

Support is a bit of a paradox in that it's one of the most influential roles in the game but also the role you stick your worst player in so they don't do too much damage to your chances of winning.

I think it would be fairer to say that the impact of a good support is highly visible while the impact of a bad support is measured in missed opportunities, so people have this idea that playing support is 'easy' because the failures of a support are both spread out across the map and more importantly are not immediately connectible to clear loss. Somone not warding properly, failing to peel, and not biting on pick opportunities is going to be less visible than somone else getting picked, your damage dealers not getting damage done, and losing a close 4v5 teamfight, even if a good support would have both ensured that those things didn't happen but also turned it into a 5v4 in your favour.

Anyway, then most people say 'put the worst person on support' and the support player learns a set of skills that are role-specific while not learning how to CS.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

Support is a bit of a paradox in that it's one of the most influential roles in the game but also the role you stick your worst player in so they don't do too much damage to your chances of winning.

thats because its really not as influential as people think it is - at the end of the day the comparison has to be made against other roles and the other roles scale with gold which is the thing you get by being good at the game

people also just think of "impact" incorrectly. they are mentally trying to evaluate it by thinking about all the things people do and kinda weighing them against each other and coming to a holistic understanding of it which is a clearheaded, rational way to approach most things - but in this case you just wanna pretend you have a challenger player in a game with 9 golds and think "where do i want to put them" and rank it that way

edit: the obvious implication being that if you're dumb enough to put them in the support role then you are either a support main or a very disgruntled adc

Verviticus fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Sep 18, 2021

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
Supports are just CC slaves for your damage dealers :(

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



Verviticus posted:

thats because its really not as influential as people think it is - at the end of the day the comparison has to be made against other roles and the other roles scale with gold which is the thing you get by being good at the game

people also just think of "impact" incorrectly. they are mentally trying to evaluate it by thinking about all the things people do and kinda weighing them against each other and coming to a holistic understanding of it which is a clearheaded, rational way to approach most things - but in this case you just wanna pretend you have a challenger player in a game with 9 golds and think "where do i want to put them" and rank it that way

edit: the obvious implication being that if you're dumb enough to put them in the support role then you are either a support main or a very disgruntled adc

Supports not being shackled to CS means they can easily win other lanes. After trying out 4 roles as my "main" I've gotta say sup is either highest impact or right behind jungler

Maybe I'm just saying that a challenger support to a gold support is a bigger difference than the same difference for say adc.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

Support is a bit of a paradox in that it's one of the most influential roles in the game but also the role you stick your worst player in so they don't do too much damage to your chances of winning.

I'd put them top tbh

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.

SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

I'd put them top tbh

if you can get them to play malphite then yeah thats a safe place to put them as well. but if youd rather have a challenger bard or whatever instead of a camille/irelia autist then what i said before applies

SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

Supports not being shackled to CS means they can easily win other lanes. After trying out 4 roles as my "main" I've gotta say sup is either highest impact or right behind jungler

Maybe I'm just saying that a challenger support to a gold support is a bigger difference than the same difference for say adc.

perhaps youre just best at playing support, i dunno

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

Verviticus posted:

thats because its really not as influential as people think it is - at the end of the day the comparison has to be made against other roles and the other roles scale with gold which is the thing you get by being good at the game

people also just think of "impact" incorrectly. they are mentally trying to evaluate it by thinking about all the things people do and kinda weighing them against each other and coming to a holistic understanding of it which is a clearheaded, rational way to approach most things - but in this case you just wanna pretend you have a challenger player in a game with 9 golds and think "where do i want to put them" and rank it that way

edit: the obvious implication being that if you're dumb enough to put them in the support role then you are either a support main or a very disgruntled adc

i think i would put them jungle, then mid, then support. you are definitely undervaluing support here as support is the one with agency in early game to initiate and win fights bot, but then can also roam in the early game. while they do not scale off gold the playmaking ability is much greater. the reason why mid and jungle are above this role is they can both affect bot lane as well but do scale off gold.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


A lot of high level supports I've watched are basically playing like non-farming junglers these days. If you don't need to be bot lane you should be looking for a gank.

strong bird
May 12, 2009

The role I play sucks rear end and doesn't do anything valuable and is too hard. Every other role is way too easy and gets to do too much. And that's the bottom line.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
Top lane is absolutely the newbie lane and not supports, IMO; furthest from dragon fights, less likely to snowball the game one way or another, most picks are chunky jerks that can tolerate some degree of bad positioning without beefing it for their team.

As for the weird "where would you put the best player ever who can play every role & hero" question, I'd put him jungle, but if I had two of the Ultimate Player I might put them jungle + support. Junglers dictate the flow of the game & can carry hard just off of balancing every lane & securing free permanent buffs (let alone usually scaling fine themselves), while a great support can make a great player godlike.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
How do I learn what the roles are supposed to do oh loving god this game is so overwhelming for new players lmao

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

Good Will Hrunting posted:

How do I learn what the roles are supposed to do oh loving god this game is so overwhelming for new players lmao

its really not, the thing about league is that nobody knows all the stuff about league and everyone is wrong about things all the time. you can get by without knowing the games advanced theory pretty easily, and learn as you go

E: here is an old post of mine that details how all this works in greater detail, which should help give you a foundation for understanding all the roles

pog boyfriend posted:

i have been seeing a lot of confusion around unorthodox picks and how they work, and i think most people are not generally aware so i am going to make a writeup on the eurolane - how it came to be, and how you can use it to predict champion picks. the eurolane is the correct term for what people call "the meta". top laner, jungler, adc, support, mid - these are terms that come from the context of the eurolane. deviations from the formula are so common that you do not even think of them as deviations, but understanding why people started doing this will help tremendously in being able to comprehend unorthodox strategies(yasuo/vlad/whatever bot, duo ap bots, etc) that come up from time to time.

what is eurolane
the eurolane is a scheme where you have a support and adc bot. from there, the other roles are a jungler(of some variety), a mage in the mid lane, and a tough guy top lane. tough guy here meaning "bruiser or tank". the way it works is predicated on 3 things. first, there are 4 sources of income for five players. three lanes and a jungle. second, the middle lane levels faster than the side lanes as the minions have less distance to travel. i will not be providing trigonometry lessons but this should be trivial. third, the dragon is an easier objective to take than baron.

the reason we have a jungler is because the jungle is a source of money. that leaves us with 3 income sources for 4 players. one player(the adc) scales the most off gold. another player(the mage) scales off gold quite a bit, but also needs levels to cast their spells. pretend the support role does not exist. the adc is weak early, but very good at taking towers later - a thing we need to do in order to win. pretend the top laner does not exist. we know we want a mage because mages are great at dealing sustained damage and also diversify our damage types. we also want to get the dragon, so we will place two people bot lane to contest the dragon better.

supports are chosen for their ability to work on low income and protect their carry. they have utility abilities that do not require much financial support. since the jungler is expected to focus in the early game around bot lane, we want strong people that are capable of being on their own for extended periods of time. this is where bruisers and tanks come into play. this also provides a nice front line for your adc. note that whatever your jungler is does not matter to this.

it is important that you know why these things are being done, as it will help understand when people deviate from this strategy what they are trying to do.

variations of the eurolane

you are going to see a lot of variations in laning. if you run into something that seems strange, ask yourself what you think they are going to do. if people run something like duo top or whatever, refer to why people run the eurolane to begin with to learn how to exploit it. for instance, against duo top, hold your own and get a lot of dragons.

in top lane, people will run(these things will weaken their front line):
  • ranged bullies(to counter the melee top laners. they do not function as tanks so they will attempt to do skirmishes or split push as their team fight is weaker.)
  • melee adcs(fiora/tryndamere/sort of yasuo - they will use the isolated nature of top lane to farm up, maybe win some duels early, and then become a powerhouse lategame. )
  • ranged adcs(same as melee adcs except with a nasty ranged bully habit. very easily ganked, a high priority gank target.)


in mid lane, people will run:
  • assassins(to counter mid mages, they will try to get kills on the squishy mages there and use the levels from mid lane to roam around and get kills.)
  • ranged adcs(bot lane is highly pressured, and mid offers an opportunity to get away from that. they will likely not roam much, and their intention is to get a lot of gold and levels and become strong. camp these fuckers.)
  • bruisers(similarly to assassins they want to counter mid mages, but they also want to have some bulk. gives an opportunity to beef up their team, but reduces their damage output compared to mages/ranged adcs/assassins.)

in bottom lane, people will run(all of these weaken the ability to take towers in lategame, and can be "countered" by not falling too far behind):
  • oblique carries(anything that gets all the farm bot lane with a support that is not a regular adc. this is like a typical eurolane bot, but gets extra early laning power. they will likely try to win lane early and then take dragon.)
  • kill lanes(there is a wide spectrum, but basically two people that share farm and try to kill you early. their goal is to snowball bot as much as possible and get many dragons. your goal against them is to survive.)
  • double warriors(similar to kill lanes, but less sharp. think like, double ap, or double bruiser. usually one person will get lane priority but this is very flexible. they will try to win early game, but unlike kill lanes they are not unbeatable. use your superior allocation of funds to eventually outscale them in early-mid game, and try to mount a counterattack at the tail end of laning phase.)


whenever you see something that you do not understand as a pick, think about how the eurolane came to be, and what value a pick has. so if someone plays bot vladimir with a thresh, you know thresh is a typical support, thus making this an oblique carry situation - vladimir is looking to farm up and become strong. however if someone plays bot vladimir with a syndra, and syndra and vlad are sharing the money with vladimir soaking up damage and sustaining and syndra doing damage, you can probably bet they are going to start flashing onto people and killing you.

understanding what people are trying to accomplish with their lanes when you run into some of the more unorthodox stuff is going to help you immensely, because most players do not have the time to study things like "how does ezreal/sona fare against swain/taric", being able to guess what they are doing at a glance and adapt is a very useful skill. we keep seeing weird stuff move into botlane, and if the eurolane starts breaking down, the meta surrounding it will too - this will lead to seeing more adcs in mid, etc(since they are not going to be bot as much).

of course, if riot pumps the breaks to try to get support/adc down bot, these variations of the base strategy are going to be less common as well. even still, i think this is a very understated bit of game knowledge and if you ever want to theorycraft your own builds in summoners rift it is crucial that you understand these dynamics.

Cast_No_Shadow
Jun 8, 2010

The Republic of Luna Equestria is a huge, socially progressive nation, notable for its punitive income tax rates. Its compassionate, cynical population of 714m are ruled with an iron fist by the dictatorship government, which ensures that no-one outside the party gets too rich.

In soloq every one can potentially carry and everyone can be a free bag of gold for the opposing team.

Top lane is chad lane, big beefy boys and girls 1v1ing. If you gently caress up, you get dominated. Jungle camping you? No one is coming to help you have to sort it out yourself. But you can carry the game either through getting huge and just dominating or split pushing or both.

Mid is the short lane, you can always be a coward and run to tower. Best opportunity for a laner to affect the map cause you can roam anywhere. Beloved of power mages and assassins. Everyone will come visit you at some point and you can visit them. It's also quickest to get back too when you screw up. Best for people who don't really like to lane, cause the second a tower falls, everyone camps in yours for aram.

Jungle is the "I like to play a single player game most of the time" role that occasionally remembers other players are in the game and turns up to gank.

Bot is a cluster gently caress, who knows what's happening there. But whatever it is, you can rest assured it's 100% your fault regardless of what role your in or what you're doing.

Cast_No_Shadow fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Sep 18, 2021

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
That summary is p much exactly what I was looking for really, and things of that nature... I just don't know what type of champ to select from the very small pool I have with free selections and understanding fundamentals seems key to not crippling my team and tilting the children from the start.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



Good Will Hrunting posted:

That summary is p much exactly what I was looking for really, and things of that nature... I just don't know what type of champ to select from the very small pool I have with free selections and understanding fundamentals seems key to not crippling my team and tilting the children from the start.

Just go type the characters into a site like lolalytics and it'll tell you their typical lane

Cast_No_Shadow
Jun 8, 2010

The Republic of Luna Equestria is a huge, socially progressive nation, notable for its punitive income tax rates. Its compassionate, cynical population of 714m are ruled with an iron fist by the dictatorship government, which ensures that no-one outside the party gets too rich.

Good Will Hrunting posted:

That summary is p much exactly what I was looking for really, and things of that nature... I just don't know what type of champ to select from the very small pool I have with free selections and understanding fundamentals seems key to not crippling my team and tilting the children from the start.

To actually be serious, when you are new, pick a character with the combination of an ok win rate (anything around 50% is fine, just not really below that, too high and you'll get nerfed in a month or banned/outpicked every other game) and who is mechanically simple - no animation tricks, no or few skillshots, not reliant on landing a skillshot for 90% of damage.

I'd also look for champions that do well in early/mid game.

Try a few and see what you like and what roles you like to play, then go watch a few non-toxic ideally learning focused streamers to see how other people play those roles and champions and maybe pick up a few bits of info to bring into your own game.

Also use op.gg. It's a good site to look at champions, where people play them and how they are doing.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.

SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

Just go type the characters into a site like lolalytics and it'll tell you their typical lane

Oh yeah I get that but like, the nuances of what I'm supposed to be doing during the laning phase, how to poke/harass, and really what skills my opponents in lane have that I need to watch out for seems like an overwhelming thing to pick up.

Cast_No_Shadow posted:

To actually be serious, when you are new, pick a character with the combination of an ok win rate (anything around 50% is fine, just not really below that, too high and you'll get nerfed in a month or banned/outpicked every other game) and who is mechanically simple - no animation tricks, no or few skillshots, not reliant on landing a skillshot for 90% of damage.

I'd also look for champions that do well in early/mid game.

Try a few and see what you like and what roles you like to play, then go watch a few non-toxic ideally learning focused streamers to see how other people play those roles and champions and maybe pick up a few bits of info to bring into your own game.

Also use op.gg. It's a good site to look at champions, where people play them and how they are doing.

This is good poo poo - is there some sort of place to look for streamers that aren't insufferable fuckwads? Anyone have suggestions or should I just ask again after I find a few champs I like?

Early/Mid game is what I'm focused on now, I kinda get the "phases" and see them happening as they develop but I'm definitely not sure how to approach each based on champ pick, what items to make, when to rotate to help people, etc.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



Good Will Hrunting posted:

Oh yeah I get that but like, the nuances of what I'm supposed to be doing during the laning phase, how to poke/harass, and really what skills my opponents in lane have that I need to watch out for seems like an overwhelming thing to pick up.

This is good poo poo - is there some sort of place to look for streamers that aren't insufferable fuckwads? Anyone have suggestions or should I just ask again after I find a few champs I like?

Early/Mid game is what I'm focused on now, I kinda get the "phases" and see them happening as they develop but I'm definitely not sure how to approach each based on champ pick, what items to make, when to rotate to help people, etc.

An app like porofessor will generally have tips against characters, like it'll say 'their stun has a long cool down early on so if they miss it, go in for a fight' etc. It's helpful for new people. I'm sure there's 3 line character explanations elsewhere too tho

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
Porofessor looks really cool, thanks for all these resource suggestions. Feels good knowing there's enough resources and poo poo to get over the hump

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Honestly, don't be embarrassed to lose. Spend all your matches learning things and practicing them. Pick whatever random thing you want and just go all in on learning it. The fastest way to climb out to matches vaguely follow the shapes of professional matches tiers is by putting in the tiniest bit of effort to genuinely learn from mistakes and experiment.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Good Will Hrunting posted:

Oh yeah I get that but like, the nuances of what I'm supposed to be doing during the laning phase, how to poke/harass, and really what skills my opponents in lane have that I need to watch out for seems like an overwhelming thing to pick up.

Most of this will come with time and experience playing out the matchups. Learning what enemy champions do is gonna be the hardest part, just because there's a loving lot of them. You can use something like op.gg to get a brief overview of what each champion's abilities do, or look at the League wiki if you want a more detailed and in-depth overview.

Some broad principles apply for every champion during laning phase:
  • Minions hurt a lot early. Any action that directly targets and damages an enemy champion (such as Annie's Q or autoattacks) will cause minions to swap aggro to you. Fighting in the middle of an enemy minion wave is almost always a death sentence, and trying to harass in a way that makes it difficult to run back to deaggro minions can end up losing you the trade. Looking to harass when you have the minion wave advantage is usually your best option.
  • Champions are most vulnerable when they're going for CS, since their autoattacks will briefly animation lock them, meaning that they can't respond to attacks nor move out of the way of skillshots. This is an opportune time to harass, especially if you have a range advantage over them.
  • If you intend to push the wave, you need to be relatively certain that you can actually force the wave to go into your enemy's turret without it being stopped outside of its range, which is commonly known as a "freeze". Enemies can otherwise force the wave to hover dangerously close to their turret, putting them at maximum safety and you at maximum danger.
  • Most champions during the laning phase have an initial back timing, which is an amount of gold that they want to return to base with before coming back to lane. Champions will generally want to try and force their back timing when the lane is in a favorable state. Once you learn your own back timings, you'll start to figure out when you want to start forcing the lane down into the enemy turret. Once you learn the enemy's back timings, you'll know when they're likely to want to go back, and can either try to force the wave to freeze in front of your turret, or look to interrupt them when they're trying to go back with ranged abilities.

Vermain fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Sep 18, 2021

Barudak
May 7, 2007

When you start out I'd recommend very basic back timing during laning phase; if you kill your opponent clear the wave if its gonna hit your tower but then immediately back. Dying gives them a chance to shop and you should do the same.

Cast_No_Shadow
Jun 8, 2010

The Republic of Luna Equestria is a huge, socially progressive nation, notable for its punitive income tax rates. Its compassionate, cynical population of 714m are ruled with an iron fist by the dictatorship government, which ensures that no-one outside the party gets too rich.

Honestly even this advice might be a bit too much early on. gently caress back timings.

You got more minions than they have? Go wreck face. (Even if you get creamed, that's a point to learn on, either you pressed you buttons wrong or played into a champ that's exceptionally strong at that point - best way to learn is do it)

They got more than you? Play it safe.

The more the minion advantage the more you should take this into account, 1 minion means nothing, 6 more means everything. Also advice not valid if your 2 levels down on them or something else crazy.

When you get a kill or they vanish or you have 15000000 gold you want your minions under their tower getting shot, cause minions are where gold and XP come from, and both those things mean power (gold through items). Towers killing minions when they ain't there means your opponent loses out on both these things. Don't be afraid to use all you mana and abilities getting your minions under their tower when you want to go back to base.

Also minions under there tower means you have the most time avaliable to get back to base, buy some stuff and run back to lane before the situation is reversed and you start to lose stuff to your own tower killing their minions.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
I love you all for this. I've been thinking of getting into the game for a while cause my 33 year old rear end cannot out-aim children in other games but I want something to scratch the competitive itch. This insight is very helpful and gives me a ton of starting points and things to look at. Much appreciated for the text and resources.

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Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

For specific champion advice you can try the facecheck app. You jus download it and it shows you tips/builds for your champion that you can import with a click of a button into the client. That way you can focus on the actual game part of the game, though try not to neglect understanding why it gave you the runes it did, so you can understand your strengths.

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