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Gruff old-man tough guy named Gran Torino? I wonder if there's a reference in there somewhere?  Ida who was very early with the hero and justice stuff is kind of failing at it at the moment of truth. Pursuing vengeance instead of saving people. https://i.imgur.com/68yM8RC.mp4 https://i.imgur.com/74ktQ33.mp4 Endeavor has no patience for heroic grandstanding does he? This Stain guy is kind of crazy and insane yes? Episode Climax was amazing. Minetas mental image when he sees a woman: https://i.imgur.com/X208i7e.mp4
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Sep 18, 2021 09:36
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finally a good chapter after a month of standing in the rain
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Sep 18, 2021 10:56
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Stain killed 40 heroes. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s terrible.
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Sep 18, 2021 12:27
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Vengarr posted:Stain killed 40 heroes. Didn't they state during the Stain arc that his kill count was 17? Either that's a lot of bodies the cops never found or he's been busy since escaping.
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Sep 18, 2021 13:24
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Rhonne posted:Didn't they state during the Stain arc that his kill count was 17? Either that's a lot of bodies the cops never found or he's been busy since escaping. 23 more were left like Ida's brother. So maybe he means more metaphorically since they're forced to retire
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Sep 18, 2021 13:38
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Feliday Melody posted:That videogame hand villain at the end of season 1 pointed out how heroes get to use absurd amounts of violence against people once they were flagged as criminals and that all this violence was then seen as heroic even though in the long run it just leads to more violence. That heroes were basically just another violent arm of the government. You should check out Psycho-Pass after you're done with this show. One of the main themes of that show is about addressing exactly what's in your post.
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Sep 18, 2021 14:41
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Stain saying that All Mights power didn't have anything to do with his devotion is a big  . Would he be a very dedicated person without OfA? Sure. Would it matter when he gets murdered by any of the more dangerous villains or even AfO 2 years into his career? Nope.There's the argument that putting an entire society on the shoulders of one powerful yet mortal person is inherently flawed but Stain isn't really making that point. Brandfarlig fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Sep 18, 2021 |
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Sep 18, 2021 15:07
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Stain's point begins and ends with what he perceives to be the sanctity of the title of "hero". He would have found what Deku did against the sludge villain at the beginning of the story to be perfectly heroic even if it wound up with a quirkless Deku splattered on the sidewalk. To him, the selfless act of altruism is the point of it all. His point is that a lot of the people doing it as a job, like the heroes that sensibly held the perimeter while a middle school kid was suffocated in front of them, wouldn't behave like Deku or All Might because they aren't actually "heroes". You're supposed to regard him as a psychopath because he is one. Even if he has a point - that letting anyone call themselves a hero and do it as a job cheapens the very concept of heroism - there's no reality where society is better off with Ingenium paralyzed. And as you've noted there's not a whole lot of point to throwing your life away recklessly.
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Sep 18, 2021 15:27
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Yeah, Stain might not have ever killed anyone if the job title for heroes was "supercop" or something. He's just being a huge pedant about language.
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Sep 18, 2021 15:44
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Shere posted:Stain's point begins and ends with what he perceives to be the sanctity of the title of "hero". He would have found what Deku did against the sludge villain at the beginning of the story to be perfectly heroic even if it wound up with a quirkless Deku splattered on the sidewalk. To him, the selfless act of altruism is the point of it all. His point is that a lot of the people doing it as a job, like the heroes that sensibly held the perimeter while a middle school kid was suffocated in front of them, wouldn't behave like Deku or All Might because they aren't actually "heroes". Stain: the ultimate semantics nazi. There's also the point that while All Might did accomplish a lot of good he could've possibly done even more if he didn't try to do everything alone, much like Deku was. Or even took a drat break and got some sleep. Stain is like the Punisher if he mostly went after cops that are just guilty of being cops. There's the semblance of a point but as you've said there's no way to spin losing Ingenium into anything positive. Even demanding perfect heroism is insane. Is the person who doesn't back down against AfO a better hero than the person who flees? Sure, but the people saved by the "coward" before AfO showed up may think otherwise. Being decent and present can be enough.
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Sep 18, 2021 15:46
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CuwiKhons posted:Yeah, Stain might not have ever killed anyone if the job title for heroes was "supercop" or something. He's just being a huge pedant about language. If they were called supercops you know the media would always be saying, "The Supercops are the real superheroes."
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Sep 18, 2021 15:47
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Stain could just never get over Knuckleduster beating him with a technicality with the rules
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Sep 18, 2021 15:56
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Stained thinks heroes are poseurs and firefighters are the only real heroes left these days.
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Sep 18, 2021 16:08
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Stain only cares about the moral purity of heroes as symbols and inspirations. He's indifferent to the goals heroes want to accomplish, such as "rescuing people in danger". This is insane because a hero who actually has the qualities Stain values would obviously consider the end goals to be more important than their own moral purity. Ironically, this means that Stain is in a good position to give All Might a pep talk on this one very specific issue.
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Sep 18, 2021 17:07
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Stain is a loving idiot
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Sep 18, 2021 17:47
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a man who literally cut off his nose to spite his face
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Sep 18, 2021 18:08
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All Might didn't even recognize the woman he saved in Kamino. IMO Stain should kill him
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Sep 18, 2021 18:09
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Stain was right and is right.
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Sep 18, 2021 19:53
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christmas boots posted:All Might didn't even recognize the woman he saved in Kamino. IMO Stain should kill him The opposite! If you're saving so few people that you have time to remember them all then clearly you're not saving enough people.
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Sep 18, 2021 20:39
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I really have to wonder what the reason is to cut so much characterization of the villains in the anime. Is really just some sort of editorial decision to not humanize them, or some braindead "ehhh we can cut this it doesn't matter" thing? Like one of the main things MVA does is characterize most of the league. It flat out explains why a schlub like Spinner joined, and the end is when it seems clear to be he goes from just being a Stain fanboy to being solid on Shigaraki's "vision".
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Sep 18, 2021 20:52
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christmas boots posted:All Might didn't even recognize the woman he saved in Kamino. IMO Stain should kill him She was directly behind him, some ways away, buried under rubble, while the most powerful supervillain in the setting was trying to punch his head off. I doubt he got a good look at her!
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Sep 18, 2021 21:36
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Fabricated posted:I really have to wonder what the reason is to cut so much characterization of the villains in the anime. Is really just some sort of editorial decision to not humanize them, or some braindead "ehhh we can cut this it doesn't matter" thing? My thoughts on all of this are that it would be weird to arbitrarily draw the line around the villain characterization simply because they're villains and I think COVID or movie production adjacent constraints are more likely to blame. The series has been almost too dedicated to the source material up until this point. Even things like the Mirio slideshow in the previous season were consistent with the source material. Something changed this season where they seem to be stretching less material to cover more time. You could look at the filler episode and say its existence means they had no real excuse for the pacing and cut content, but I think it's really the opposite. So much of the filler episode was just static panning shots or just full on stills, and could easily have been farmed out to some lower priority team (or outsourced entirely) because it's such a safe concept. I think they probably looked at the overhead of having all of these extra establishing scenes featuring not-too-popular characters, having a bunch of talent come in to record extra lines, and probably just cut it all from the production out of concern for getting through the major plot on time. This is also all consistent with things like the animator responsible for Toga's low-gravity attack cut coming out with their actual base animation on twitter, most of which wasn't used - they seem to just be strapped for resources. Whether or not they should have prioritized A vs B and Endeavor Agency over MVA comes down to whether or not you think the portions featuring the main protagonists are more important to the production and brand as a whole. It's certainly a question that answers itself from a merchandise perspective. It's a shame how things went down but I doubt they did anything as a strictly editorial "don't humanize villains" decision, especially because that would be inconsistent with the things we did get, and I think Occam's Razor would lead me to just calling it production issues. The real question comes down to whether the issues are temporary or not. They also might have been self-inflicted with them yet again committing to a movie that we didn't need. Solanumai fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Sep 19, 2021 |
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Sep 19, 2021 02:47
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does anyone know how the reception has been in japan? I feel like no matter how much people in the english community complains they won't really care.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:22
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CuwiKhons posted:Yeah, Stain might not have ever killed anyone if the job title for heroes was "supercop" or something. He's just being a huge pedant about language. I don't think it's really pedantic. Like imagine if the real life job of cop was rebranded to be called hero with all the attendant advantages of having that word linked with your job as law enforcement. You would have a ton of people pissed at how "heroes" treat them and a pile of people rushing to defend them because they are by definition heroic.
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Sep 19, 2021 06:00
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Eej posted:I don't think it's really pedantic. Like imagine if the real life job of cop was rebranded to be called hero with all the attendant advantages of having that word linked with your job as law enforcement. You would have a ton of people pissed at how "heroes" treat them and a pile of people rushing to defend them because they are by definition heroic. This is not something anyone needs to imagine. People who defend cops already think of them as heroic by definition. This is more an issue with the common perception of law enforcement as a whole than it is with job titles. The heroes are called "heroes" because, based on what Midoriya explains about the world at the beginning of the series, some people who had powers did start behaving like vigilantes and superheroes from old comics and were treated as such. It's just that powers became so ubiquitous that the government had to start regulating them long after the name had stuck. Now that being said, I do agree that "Hero" is a pretty bad job title, especially because it's so vague and heroes already have to be sorted into subcategories like "Rescue" or "Underground". But it's still pedantic for Stain to be hung up on the name. He can have legitimate criticism of the hero industry but he doesn't talk about that much. He mostly focuses on how people don't deserve the title of hero.
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Sep 19, 2021 08:06
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CuwiKhons posted:But it's still pedantic for Stain to be hung up on the name. He can have legitimate criticism of the hero industry but he doesn't talk about that much. He mostly focuses on how people don't deserve the title of hero. It’s not pedantry, they’re claiming a title that (in his mind) they have zero right to, and staining that title in the process. Sorta like if some church was being run by “saints” instead of ministers. That name has meaning to some people, you can bet they’d be pissed off. Especially if those saints were corrupt or just in it for the money.
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Sep 19, 2021 14:53
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Yeah, Stain's point isn't rote pedantry, it's that "hero" is a status you earn through your selfless (and often, in turn, reckless) actions. When you treat it like a job you ultimately wind up with people who do sensible things and give sensible advice (and, in turn, retire when the job itself is no longer appealing). It's a dichotomy the story has presented since chapter 1 with the sludge villain. Deku rushing in - an action that defies the better judgement of literally any sane person and realistically would not have helped at all - was heroic. All Might directly calls it out as heroic, like innately and unmistakably heroic. The "heroes" that held the perimeter berate him for doing it - it was reckless and dumb. Both perspectives are true at the same time. This is repeated multiple times throughout the story from multiple perspectives. The sensible people all give sensible advice like "don't blow up your limbs", which is fine personal self care advice but the entire concept of heroism is selfless. It's not really a mistake or coincidence that the person advocating for reckless heroism is also a psychopathic murderer. Solanumai fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Sep 19, 2021 |
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Sep 19, 2021 16:01
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Okay, but like... what is that actually saying? Are we supposed to condemn Uraraka now for wanting to be a hero for the paycheck? This Stain stuff is really confused and it's not helped by his philosophy being hot nonsense.
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Sep 19, 2021 17:01
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Arist posted:Okay, but like... what is that actually saying? Are we supposed to condemn Uraraka now for wanting to be a hero for the paycheck? Of course not, Stain is an insane zealot. There probably should be less commercialism in Heros, but compensating them for risking their lives is not a bad thing.
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Sep 19, 2021 17:41
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Arist posted:Okay, but like... what is that actually saying? Are we supposed to condemn Uraraka now for wanting to be a hero for the paycheck? Stain is insane but hes part of the ongoing discussion that heroism and Heros The Job are not the same thing. Vigilantes does this a bit better because The Cruller is bluntly a hero but not a Licensed Hero and everyone recognizes that.=
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Sep 19, 2021 17:53
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I realize that, but it feels like people are arguing about eight things that all contradict each other re: Stain in here
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Sep 19, 2021 18:12
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Arist posted:Okay, but like... what is that actually saying? Are we supposed to condemn Uraraka now for wanting to be a hero for the paycheck? Yes, I hope he gets her like he got the False Hero Ingenium.
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Sep 19, 2021 18:19
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Self preservation is a good idea until you end up in a situation where you have the option to lose a limb or your life. Due to OfA being so insanely strong Deku basically needs to blow himself up. Not as often as he has, but if he always refused he'd be dead long ago.
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Sep 19, 2021 18:28
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From an outside perspective, Iida Tensei is a hero because his parents and grandparents were heroes and because it made his family rich. That's a terrible reason to be a hero and someone with that reasoning shouldn't get to run around calling themselves a hero. But Stain is a crazy person who doesn't actually know Tensei's reasons for being a hero. He is making an assumption based on his outside superficial glance. Moreover, he takes this even further (and crazier) by disabling or murdering people he thinks are undeserving of that title. At its root, Stain's notions are reasonable. But they get all tangled up with extremes, with a lack of deeper understanding, and with his own psychoses, leading to unreasonable expectations and a batshit response to people failing to live up to those expectations. Meeting Stain's expectations means that you are unquestionably a heroic person, but not in any way that is healthy.
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Sep 19, 2021 19:19
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It is a terrible reason to be a hero. But does that matter to the people he saves? Unless that lack of conviction turns to dangerous cowardice the results don't change. If you have accept people who are in it for the money to fill gaps in the hero roster is that not acceptable to save more lives? The problem is obviously more fundamental than that but Stain isn't exactly getting into national politics.
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Sep 19, 2021 19:28
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Brandfarlig posted:It is a terrible reason to be a hero. But does that matter to the people he saves? Again: Stain is a crazy person.
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Sep 19, 2021 19:31
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Adder Moray posted:From an outside perspective, Iida Tensei is a hero because his parents and grandparents were heroes and because it made his family rich. That's a terrible reason to be a hero and someone with that reasoning shouldn't get to run around calling themselves a hero. On the third hand. When Ida shows up and finds Stain in the process of doing another hero murder. His main priority was not to snatch the victim and get them safe. What he instead did was ignore the victim and try to get revenge on Stain. So in this situation Stain was right.
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Sep 19, 2021 19:54
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Arist posted:Okay, but like... what is that actually saying? Are we supposed to condemn Uraraka now for wanting to be a hero for the paycheck? It's "confused" on purpose because the entire thesis of the story is what makes a hero, and it's a tough and interesting topic to chew on. Everything from the kids going to rescue Bakugo against everyone's better judgement to Deku letting Eri go against his own predilection to do anything in his power (or beyond it) to help someone, it all revolves around this dichotomy and informs it. Ultimately the truth is somewhere in the middle. Uraraka wants to be a hero for the money, but we've already seen multiple times that she has the same impulse as Deku to jump in harm's way or stick her neck out for no personal gain. Ida gets rightfully condemned for seeking revenge over saving another, but has since turned the corner and become a better hero. His philosophy isn't hot nonsense, it makes plenty of sense at face value and falls apart immediately thereafter when you realize he's murdered dozens of people who were guilty of being quirk cops. He's literally one extreme end of a spectrum of opinion on the topic.
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Sep 19, 2021 19:57
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Shere posted:His philosophy isn't hot nonsense, it makes plenty of sense at face value and falls apart immediately thereafter when you realize he's murdered dozens of people who were guilty of being quirk cops. So yes, his philosophy is hot nonsense.
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Sep 19, 2021 19:58
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Feliday Melody posted:On the third hand. When Ida shows up and finds Stain in the process of doing another hero murder. His main priority was not to snatch the victim and get them safe. What he instead did was ignore the victim and try to get revenge on Stain. So in this situation Stain was right. You're talking about Tenya. I'm referring to his older brother Tensei.
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Sep 19, 2021 20:02
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