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Electric Phantasm posted:How much damage can Kris even do alone? Cause that sounds tedious. You get access to an X-Slash TP skill at 25% which does about 400-500 damage (your single strike does around 200); and I believe a full heal at 50%; however, each bullet does 50 damage in the stream I saw (Kris had 160 HP so three hits then death). They provide a vending machine selling the bagels at the save point near the boss at least
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Sep 19, 2021 03:50
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One thing that feels a bit clever about all this is that the reason why there's no No Mercy route in Chapter 1 is because it's literally impossible to kill enemies, and the same applies to the part of chapter 2 before you team up with Noelle. But then with Noelle, you finally have the ability to actually kill enemies with her ice magic; once you get to the castle the unique enemies are the only ones there, and since you can't Kill them anymore you can spare them and thus recruit them. I actually have a possible theory on how this can keep from overscoping things that ties into the previous observation: It's possible that not every chapter has a No Mercy route, with some chapters being like chapter 1 where you literally can't kill enemies so there's no need to implement one
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Sep 19, 2021 03:53
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You have to act with the robot DJs, they just heal if attacked, which I hope doesn't derail what we're talking about
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Sep 19, 2021 03:55
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Spoilers for recent discoveries: Just did this uh, new route. Toby Fox is one stone cold lovely dog 
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Sep 19, 2021 04:03
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huh there is a variant of the last dialogue you can have on the genocide route with Noelle. If you have one of her items equipped, she gets scared at the end of her conversation saying why "you are wearing my watch"; however, it you don't have anything of hers equipped, she mentions "Why do they have such a terrifying voice". Since the conversation is only in text with no images, it implies that the two choices you can make within the conversation (they have the same dialogue with both options though) is something she heard from the player themselves, not Kris. God I love Toby Fox for this creepy-pasta masterpiece 
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Sep 19, 2021 04:04
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the new findings own and make the game cooler for existing imo.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:06
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This route, dear god this route. You're using violence and death to help your friends. You fight people in chapter 1 and still become friends with Susie. You try to force Noelle to be more assertive by making her destroy the things she's afraid of (for example puzzles involving mice). You're a loving violent murderous friend helper and by working together you and Kris are with them in the dark This is extra hosed up because Kris can remove the soul at any time and stop your from telling people to do things in battle but that never happens in the dark world. They're okay with this and god, there isn't even a possible split like in Undertale, you order them and they order their friends and it keeps going as long as Kris can make new dark worlds. That scene after you talk to Rudy where Noelle asks you a question and the screen goes black except for the text box was loving creepy. It reminded me of Undertale's genocide run ending and I don't know if you're seeing the world from Kris's perspective or your own. Considering what Noelle says about the voice she's hearing I think that might be the first time you really fully take over Kris's body
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Sep 19, 2021 04:12
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zetamind2000 posted:This route, dear god this route. You're using violence and death to help your friends. You fight people in chapter 1 and still become friends with Susie. You try to force Noelle to be more assertive by making her destroy the things she's afraid of (for example puzzles involving mice). You're a loving violent murderous friend helper and by working together you and Kris are with them in the dark I don't think Kris/"Chara"/whoever is actually capable of removing the SOUL when other people might be watching, either due to some as yet unknown rule, or simply because they don't want anyone to know about that whole thing (the zombie shuffling they do when overriding the SOUL makes it pretty tough to hide what's going on).
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Sep 19, 2021 04:16
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zetamind2000 posted:This route, dear god this route. You're using violence and death to help your friends. You fight people in chapter 1 and still become friends with Susie. You try to force Noelle to be more assertive by making her destroy the things she's afraid of (for example puzzles involving mice). You're a loving violent murderous friend helper and by working together you and Kris are with them in the dark I want to say Noelle says she's been noticing it for a bit / why doesn't anyone else see it, which makes me think Kris has been off since we took control, but I don't think it's the first time "we fully take over" - I think it's just more that our goals are most out of align with these sorts of things. Though I do wonder if there's limits as to when Kris can remove the soul, but that all goes back to the question of how much of our presence is desired.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:17
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This kicks rear end. toby fox ftw.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:21
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Oxyclean posted:
Keep in mind, the presence of the birdcage (which, given all available context, serves literally no other purpose than to imprison the SOUL) is clear evidence that Kris' SOUL has been getting removed on a regular basis even before the player started interfering. So this is more like whatever entity (Kris or otherwise) keeps taking over Kris' body is used to whichever entity (Kris or otherwise) normally resides in the SOUL being more of a pushover, and the player is at once both an unwelcome interloper and a significant new obstacle, as the player is likely much harder to override. My guess is that Kris is possessed by a Flowey-like being, specifically in that it, prior to the player's arrival, had the power of Saving The Game, which has now been usurped.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:26
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Good news everyone Berdly isn't dead after Noelle freezes him, she just took his soul 
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Sep 19, 2021 04:28
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zetamind2000 posted:Good news everyone oh well that's... something
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Sep 19, 2021 04:31
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Luceid posted:This kicks rear end. toby fox ftw.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:31
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I think it says that before you kill Berdley. No, she took the SHOPKEEPER'S soul.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:32
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zetamind2000 posted:Good news everyone Does the description change before/after the killing blow?
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Sep 19, 2021 04:32
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zetamind2000 posted:Good news everyone It has that description even before the Berdly fight
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Sep 19, 2021 04:33
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Well gently caress RIP Nerd Bird Unless it collects more souls
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Sep 19, 2021 04:33
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I have a genuine need for the sprites of Queen vamoosing when Berdly gets free and pulls the ole 'whats the behind you'
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Sep 19, 2021 04:37
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I actually pretty surprised at some of the negative reaction to this new discovery. Like this exact kind of thing is what I feel is one of the two things that DEFINES a Toby Fox game compared to like, a call of duty or some random itch.io indie game with cute gay monsters on it. The doing some specific things that leads to whole new events that sound like you are lying if you just told someone about it. That and having to literally dig through the game files and some other places to piece together the story hidden within the story. The constant implications and hints to some spooky bullshit. The fourth wall breaking. It's basically the entirety of what makes these games interesting beyond the cheap sugar rush of silly characters saying funny things.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:38
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zetamind2000 posted:Well gently caress There's plenty of room for him to not be dead. When you exit the Dark World, he's described as "not awake" ... it's better then him being a block of ice, or totally gone. Though, it does seem to be clear there is real danger in the Dark World, but it plays into my speculation that the opposite might be true as well. Might not be able to use healing magic in the real world, but if you get someone into the Dark World and heal them....?
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Sep 19, 2021 04:39
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zetamind2000 posted:Well gently caress Possible explanation for the description  This starts happening at the end of every battle after you get the ring Electric Phantasm fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Sep 19, 2021 |
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Sep 19, 2021 04:39
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I have mixed feelings.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:40
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Scarodactyl posted:I have mixed feelings. I don't know, I honestly think that the fact that Toby went for a genuinely novel approach to a genocide route is actually pretty cool. The fact that the main route is also very, very good, is just icing.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:42
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Oxyclean posted:
Monsters turn to dust when they die in Undertale and it's likely that's the same in Deltarune despite being a different timeline/reality, so it's possible he's just in a 'fallen down' state then. Or the freeze had some other effect like putting him in a coma.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:42
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Whitenoise Poster posted:I actually pretty surprised at some of the negative reaction to this new discovery. I think some people are just a lot less comfortable with the route basically being you emotionally abusing one of the game's sweetest characters into being a stone-cold killer, even if its only in the "pretend" world. That said, I think a little bit of discomfort's a good thing. As desensitized as people are by cool fights with Sans, the Genocide routes are supposed to be deeply uncomfortable experiences. I think this reframes it in a fascinating way that just being another kill-them-all wouldn't properly do, and fits Deltarune and Chapter 2's narratives worryingly well.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:43
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more revelations from the Bad Time route spamton's rambling plus bratty's comments in hometown strongly suggest that kris was literally living in the trash before the dreemurrs adopted them. also, [[Hyperlink Blocked]] almost definitely translates to LOVE
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Sep 19, 2021 04:44
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I'm extremely sick at the moment but i'm just laughing at the fact that i cant even get to the extra boss at the moment god drat tea cups Also I'm glad Toby learned an incredibly important lesson from Hussie. Puppets are creepy as hell.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:44
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Oxxidation posted:more revelations from the Bad Time route Given its mention in both secret boss fights, [[Hyperlink Blocked]] is more likely to be "Freedom". By the way, are there any repercussions for swiping the five bucks from Asriel's nightstand at the start of the chapter?
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Sep 19, 2021 04:49
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EclecticTastes posted:Given its mention in both secret boss fights, [[Hyperlink Blocked]] is more likely to be "Freedom". Yes, you're a monster and a thief. But realtalk, it doesn't seem like it?
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Sep 19, 2021 04:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeZ43t01Pz8 does not have the snowgrave route
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Sep 19, 2021 04:53
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EclecticTastes posted:Given its mention in both secret boss fights, [[Hyperlink Blocked]] is more likely to be "Freedom". no, i'm standing firm on this one "NO. I GET IT. IT'S YOU AND THAT [Hochi Mama]. YOU'VE BEEN [Making], HAVEN'T YOU! YOU'VE BEEN MAKING [Hyperlink Blocked]! AND NOW THAT YOU HAVE YOUR OWN SUPPLY, YOU DON'T NEED ME!!!"
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Sep 19, 2021 04:53
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I think the most fascinating, tiny piece of information we learned from this though is That Ralsei very very intentionally sends us away in those specific scenes and is surprised when we don't leave the one time. We, the players controlling the soul, are 100% a third party and Kriss and Ralsei are in cahoots on SOMETHING. And play dumb when we are looking. Like there was always an implication. But a hard confirm feels good. Also, lol 
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Sep 19, 2021 04:55
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Undertale's murder route does several things to make sure you know you're being a monster, and then even adds in a "hey, at least you aren't one of the people who just watches it" sting at the end. In a way, this fits that same narrative. You could just ignore it -- plenty of people in this thread felt it had to be a fake/hoax. Nobody has to play it. Nobody has to look at it. But we want to. At any point, we can just leave it well enough alone, but because we want to see what happens... Even Flowey nails you for this if you pull it in the Ruins: quote:Wow, you're utterly repulsive. I guess what I'm saying is that this is pretty much on-brand for Toby.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:57
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Whitenoise Poster posted:I think the most fascinating, tiny piece of information we learned from this though is That Ralsei very very intentionally sends us away in those specific scenes and is surprised when we don't leave the one time. We, the players controlling the soul, are 100% a third party and Kriss and Ralsei are in cahoots on SOMETHING. And play dumb when we are looking. Like there was always an implication. But a hard confirm feels good. that and the fact that Noelle straight up says that the voice commanding her is not Kris' but someone else (i.e. the player). The player is the one doing this.
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Sep 19, 2021 04:58
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The reason why Toby said there's only going to be one ending is if you follow the Evil route Chapter 3 begins with an unavoidable gameover when Kris decides that after sleeping on it the whole thing with Noelle was way messed up and decides to toss away the Soul permanently. And the only way to continue is to restart and not be a bad friend.
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Sep 19, 2021 05:02
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zetamind2000 posted:This route, dear god this route. You're using violence and death to help your friends. You fight people in chapter 1 and still become friends with Susie. You try to force Noelle to be more assertive by making her destroy the things she's afraid of (for example puzzles involving mice). You're a loving violent murderous friend helper and by working together you and Kris are with them in the dark Note how it's your name on the save files, the Rudinn suggests naming the castle town <name>TOWN, and the save location is listed as "My" Castle Town. The player has always been the master of these worlds, and it all comes down to if you want to let yourself become immersed in them or cynically play around with the lives of their inhabitants. Considering the choice of words used at certain points, I can only imagine the Red SOUL is meant to reflect "Freedom" and all the far-reaching implications of what that could mean 
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Sep 19, 2021 05:07
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Couple neat things about this big new discovery If you select Lancer he's sleeping and you get the message "Innocent boys are fast asleep" Noelle's Coldness and Boldness stats going way up, and she gets a couple new titles, as does Kris.
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Sep 19, 2021 05:09
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Oh yeah, it's 100% real. Goddamn lol Wonder if it still works with a transferred save. Might need to do a fighting-only run across both chapters.
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Sep 19, 2021 05:10
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SyntheticPolygon posted:The reason why Toby said there's only going to be one ending is if you follow the Evil route Chapter 3 begins with an unavoidable gameover when Kris decides that after sleeping on it the whole thing with Noelle was way messed up and decides to toss away the Soul permanently. And the only way to continue is to restart and not be a bad friend. other way around, you can't continue the game unless you follow that specific hidden route 
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Sep 19, 2021 05:10
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