|
Amppelix posted:well i just played it and i didn't see that anywhere! and i didn't skip dialogue either! IIRC Raisei at least implies it after the first C.Round encounter. Anyway, about Ralsei, I've had a pet theory since Chapter 1, but some things in Chapter 2 have reinforced that to the point where I think I'm justified in calling it more than just wild speculation. So we know that Darkners are given form by the Dark Fountains, and as such their natural state is largely undefined. I believe that Ralsei really is a Darkner, and as such it's obvious that he isn't really a nice fluffy goat monster boy but rather he's been shaped into that for some reason. The question is why? Personally I think that Raisei isn't actually a version of Asriel or a sidekick that Kris created to make them a better hero but rather, at least in a very large part, an idealized version of the person that Kris wants and/or thinks they should be. Instead of a weird loner who doesn't even look like the rest of their family you have this good-natured and righteous perfect little sibling. This is speculative, but I get the feeling that Kris blames themselves for a lot of bad things that were outside their control, like say Toriel and Asgore divorcing, and maybe if he was like Ralsei then all of those problems could have been avoided. This would actually explain a lot all at once. Why does Ralsei know things about the Light World? It's because he's a reflection of Kris and Kris knows these things. Why can he appear in other Dark Worlds? It's because Kris is there. Why doesn't Ralsei really know what being "Ralsei-like" is? It's because his form and personality is largely a projection of somebody else's hopes and dreams. Why is Ralsei outspoken and assertive against the bad guys but a complete submissive doormat when it comes to Kris? It's because he was made that way by Kris somehow and can't go against his creator. Why does it seem like Ralsei and Kris are conspiring when the player isn't watching? Again it's because Kris shaped him and they're working together. After all, as we know, Kris has been to the Dark World before the player and could have created him either consciously or by accident. So in essence Raisei could also be a puppet tied to strings, a being who has been remade in a specific image to reflect somebody else's desires. Maybe he also wants to break free but can't do that on his own because he's been shackled into a specific role that prevents it. Could be an explanation for him breaking and turning against Kris at some point down the line.
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:02 |
|
|
Your Computer posted:i will say, the snow imagery and christmas circled on the calendar and all that is kinda on the nose for a family of red-nosed reindeer (noelle's father literally being named rudolph) isn't it? it's very clearly a gag, but of course it wouldn't be the first time toby fox does a gag that is also something depressing For sure, and that's sort of the split Deltarune seems to be purposefully creating. One side is almost sickly sweet and silly, the other side equally as disturbing. A cute Christmas reindeer family complete with, to use your words, on-the-nose snow/winter/Xmas references on one hand, and a grief-stricken, deeply fractured family with catastrophically grim outlets for said grief on the other.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:12
|
|
|
Mr. Maggy posted:now tell them about the 1997 character sprite lol it actually grew by one pixel between chapters, toby you card the sound effect that is played when you continue on the side b route is called "snd_ominous", the 4 tone jingle that plays after certain scenes; presumably doing something to get off of that route plays "snd_ominous_cancel" instead
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:13
|
|
|
What is the '1997 character sprite'?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:15
|
|
|
toby knows exactly what he's doing https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1439488348800753665
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:16
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:17
|
|
|
Swilo posted:toby knows exactly what he's doing You won't believe how brutally I murder Jockington! - Toby Fox on Chapter 3 probably
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:18
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:18
|
|
|
this route is the only way to ensure that berdly never gets nipples
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:18
|
|
|
Lunatic Sledge posted:I'm just spoiling this because you spoiled yours but Mike is also the name of the kid who gets sucked into the TV in Willy Wonka's factory At this point, I feel like we need to accept that Toby Fox doesn't do coincidences. Everything is important. I might have dismissed the mention of "Mike" as just crazy rambling, but then Spamton went into "black eyes mode" just to repeat the guy's name. That's a solid indicator that it's important, and given what chapter 3 is going to be, the likelihood of it being a coincidence is somewhere around zero. As for 1997, it might just be used as a nineties internet reference, but the fact that the year lines up with a likely birth year for Asriel and is mentioned by more than just Spamton means I'll at least be keeping an eye out for mentions of it whenever the next chapter drops. By the by, based on the story told by the Addisons, it may be that Gaster was the one helping Spamson become a [[Big Shot]] prior to his fall from grace. He may also be who gave Jevil the revelations that drove him mad. In fact, it occurs to me that Gaster, fractured across time and space, may be the one actually responsible for everything that's happening, on a basic level. As in, he's been using his extradimensional existence to manipulate events, resulting in the drastically different alternate universe of Deltarune. His end goal would likely be to set up an event that will allow him to reconstitute himself. I wouldn't say this is especially likely, but there's definitely something interfering from outside the universe we're playing in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:19
|
|
|
hopefully i'm wrong but i don't know if the online response to the snowgrave route will cause a bunch of backlash against toby fox & co, because it requires you actively emotionally manipulating a vulnerable character resulting in her actually
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:23
|
|
|
Swilo posted:toby knows exactly what he's doing This dude, this dude gets spooky. This is a dude who understands spooky and creepy and I respect him for that. He also understands silly and funny and cute! Great storyteller, looking forward to playing the rest of the game he's making. Hey, so you know how Noelle has a lot of angelic imagery associated with her? And you know how the opening cutscene talks about how the three heroes are destined to fight an angel who wants to destroy the world? Do you think those two things could possibly be related in some way? ....Nah, probably not.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:24
|
|
|
Oh my GOD. 10/10, no notes. Your Computer posted:this route is the only way to ensure that berdly never gets nipples It had to be done, he would have been too powerful otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:27
|
|
|
The 1997 sprite is the dude keeping pancakes in his hat in QC's diner. it looks like his hat is a pixel larger in chapter 2.EclecticTastes posted:At this point, I feel like we need to accept that Toby Fox doesn't do coincidences. Everything is important. I might have dismissed the mention of "Mike" as just crazy rambling, but then Spamton went into "black eyes mode" just to repeat the guy's name. ...[/spoiler] Agreed, though the intro seems be implying that we're helping or working with Gaster in some way, and not necessarily what his goals or motivations might be... and that's of course before considering the interruption between when we've made our vessel and when we're made to control Kris.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:27
|
|
|
The Saddest Rhino posted:hopefully i'm wrong but i don't know if the online response to the snowgrave route will cause a bunch of backlash against toby fox & co, because it requires you actively emotionally manipulating a vulnerable character resulting in her actually in one the content in question is (as far as I've heard, I haven't played BD) kind of unavoidable while in the other it's very, very optional so... here's hoping but also, the internet, so lol who knows
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:28
|
|
|
I think backlash is inevitable whenever a subject that sensitive gets brought up. Sometimes for the right reasons, sometimes certainly not. You're gonna have a handful of folks clamoring for their pitchforks, but I think the general consensus is going to be a positive reception because the intent from Toby isn't sinister, despite the uh, actual content being what it is. I could also be giving way too much credit to people lmao
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:32
|
|
|
I honestly wonder if maybe what hosed Kris up at the bunker was a run in with Gaster themselves, where he taught them the trick of fountain-opening and told them that it could help those around them and maybe even free them. The super-bosses are linked to the Knight, to Kris, because they were all fed world-shattering information from the same source. Spamton doesn't have much to say about the Knight, but he opens with "Speaking of [communion]", which for me at least has implications of maybe the Knight being in touch with a higher power. Part of Kris' post-battle panic might be them starting to figure out from Jevil and Spamton that they've been sold a raw deal, that there's no actual freedom available, that the SOUL is staying right where it is and is still capable of hurting everyone around them at any time. Also goddamn Snowgrave is hosed up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:35
|
|
|
Personally I don't think you can blame a game for offering you the option to be a complete piece of poo poo if you have to literally go out of your way to do it. But I guess it's inevitable that someone, somewhere gets real mad over it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:35
|
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:This dude, this dude gets spooky. This is a dude who understands spooky and creepy and I respect him for that. He also understands silly and funny and cute! Great storyteller, looking forward to playing the rest of the game he's making. Toby Fox is one of the best drat gamecrafters alive today. Not only is he masterful in the worlds/characters/stories he creates, he is amazing at making interesting game mechanics and making it all come together How he sets up expectations and defies them using the story and how we interact with what he's made. The Papryus boss fight in Undertale is a great example of this. -You are lead to believe that Papyrus is kind of a joke, possibly comic relief. -The fight starts, his attacks are a joke. These credits transfer, you think. -Oops, you are Blue now. Your heart falls down and a little bone comes from the left to damage you and make you start paying attention. As if to say: "Hey! Wake up! You thought this was going to be easy, you were wrong." If you were paying attention you don't get hit by it. If you were underestimating Paparyus, you get hit by that bone every time. It makes everyone be on the same page when the fight starts. Everything about the setup and execution is great. After all these years Toby still delivers. --Also I saw this can CANNOT unsee it: -- 
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:41
|
|
|
Before the route was discovered, someone discovered the Snowgrave spell and thought it was unused. The effects when used on other enemies is uh, something.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrRA64zwJmo Seeing enemies actually dissolve is kind of unsettling given that even in the Snowgrave route, they just get frozen over.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:48
|
|
|
this is from many pages back but going back over dialogue I gained some insight re: [hyperlink blocked] quote from the regular Spamton fight, "I WAS ONLY EVER IN IT FOR THE [Freedom]. TO MAKE YOUR OWN [Deals] TO CALL YOUR OWN [Shots] AND SOMETIMES IN THE MORNING, A LITTLE [Hyperlink Blocked]" I'm leaning toward it meaning love, or at least the sloppy kind Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:50
|
|
|
Lunatic Sledge posted:this is from many pages back but going back over dialogue I gained some insight re: [hyperlink blocked] Well, that and this: quote:
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:57
|
|
|
A Gamer's Hell
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:58
|
|
|
Zamujasa posted:Well, that and this: YEAH that was the other dialogue brought up last time I think, but I wanted to help
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 09:59
|
|
|
Going back to Noelle's sister possibly being killed in a snowstorm, Chapter 2 gives some more context to the lyrics to Don't Forget: When the light is running low And the shadows start to grow And the places that you know Seem like fantasy There's a light inside your soul That's still shining in the cold With the truth The promise in our hearts Don't forget I'm with you in the dark
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:06
|
|
|
Reminds me, the honk_song that plays with the mess of a traffic jam plays flowey's theme, (something), the dog song/battle music, (likely nothing), and then granpdasemi / grandpatemi at the end. Can't figure out what the second one is.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:09
|
|
|
I am going to play every chapter like 10 times to get everything  . Luckily Toby Fox and co kick rear end at their job. poo poo, I haven't even beat Jeevil.I changed computers between 1 and 2 so I replayed 1 the day before and I've already missed some minor stuff that carries into 2. Queen owns, Gamer Berdly is fun to hate and Noelle and Susie are cute as hell. Susies fantastic sprites always get me. I never did a genocide run of UT because it's not like I would've had the patience to beat Sans but this time I'm going to have to do it. At least when 3-5 are released. Berdly just being injured can be played off but you can only put so many kids in a coma for so long until people notice. Also, I doubt "Cop-Asgore murdered 7 kids" is going to be true but those loving flowers mean *something* And the second I read communion I went "Tonight, Spamton joins the hunt" I can't read bloodborne-related words properly anymore. Also, Susie explaining that GIASFELFEBREHBER is Ice-Es catchphrase is really funny. Sounds less like a catchphrase and more like neurological damage or rabies but 
Brandfarlig fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:15
|
|
|
Zamujasa posted:Reminds me, the honk_song that plays with the mess of a traffic jam plays flowey's theme, (something), the dog song/battle music, (likely nothing), and then granpdasemi / grandpatemi at the end. Can't figure out what the second one is. Sounds like Spear of Justice to me
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:15
|
|
|
Aisu posted:I honestly wonder if maybe what hosed Kris up at the bunker was a run in with Gaster themselves, where he taught them the trick of fountain-opening and told them that it could help those around them and maybe even free them. The super-bosses are linked to the Knight, to Kris, because they were all fed world-shattering information from the same source. Spamton doesn't have much to say about the Knight, but he opens with "Speaking of [communion]", which for me at least has implications of maybe the Knight being in touch with a higher power. Part of Kris' post-battle panic might be them starting to figure out from Jevil and Spamton that they've been sold a raw deal, that there's no actual freedom available, that the SOUL is staying right where it is and is still capable of hurting everyone around them at any time. Kris ran into Gaster working on his game in the bunker and it really spooked them by showing just how rough game dev could be even for indie developers. But remembering that Asriel was always into making games they got to talking and eventually Gaster decided to make Kris the main character of Deltarune, though he couldn't decide whether they should be the hero or villain. Hence this whole Knight thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:17
|
|
|
Your Computer posted:i will say, the snow imagery and christmas circled on the calendar and all that is kinda on the nose for a family of red-nosed reindeer (noelle's father literally being named rudolph) isn't it? it's very clearly a gag, but of course it wouldn't be the first time toby fox does a gag that is also something depressing How much you wanna bet her mom's name is Carol?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:17
|
|
|
Solitair posted:How much you wanna bet her mom's name is Carol? .....Yup, that's gonna be it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:20
|
|
|
Solitair posted:How much you wanna bet her mom's name is Carol? That's so obviously it, I'm smackin myself on the forehead for not realizing it sooner lmao
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:21
|
|
|
Solitair posted:How much you wanna bet her mom's name is Carol? Anything else would be a dereliction of duty.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:21
|
|
|
It just occurred to me that, for everyone wondering how Ralsei was able to even show up in the second dark world, he probably just used the big gold doors near his castle. That's how everyone got into the first dark world in Chapter 1, it may be that they open up whenever there are other dark worlds it can connect to, at a narratively appropriate moment, i.e. whenever Ralsei needs to show up (which is why it will never open for Kris again, because the castle town will likely only be accessible before and after any given dark world). That's also likely how Ralsei got back to the castle town, is, when the fountain is closed, he's dropped off back at the doors, while everyone else gets dumped back into the real world. Also, everyone's been theorizing that Ralsei, like other darkners, is a transformed item, but just as the castle town's dark fountain is more "natural", it could be that Ralsei is, like, a native darkner, that is, one that occurs naturally rather than being an object. While I'm theorizing about the nature of darkners, it seems like the darkners exist even when there's no open dark fountain, based on how Seam, Jevil, Spamson, and others seem to have histories stretching back decades. I'm not even sure what to make of that, honestly. Does that mean there's like a parallel world at all times, where all inanimate objects are people, and dark fountains just make them manifest and accessible to lightners? Feel like this is something that'll get a little more detail later.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:21
|
|
|
Solitair posted:How much you wanna bet her mom's name is Carol? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:22
|
|
|
EclecticTastes posted:It just occurred to me that, for everyone wondering how Ralsei was able to even show up in the second dark world, he probably just used the big gold doors near his castle. That's how everyone got into the first dark world in Chapter 1, it may be that they open up whenever there are other dark worlds it can connect to, at a narratively appropriate moment, i.e. whenever Ralsei needs to show up (which is why it will never open for Kris again, because the castle town will likely only be accessible before and after any given dark world). That's also likely how Ralsei got back to the castle town, is, when the fountain is closed, he's dropped off back at the doors, while everyone else gets dumped back into the real world. Also, everyone's been theorizing that Ralsei, like other darkners, is a transformed item, but just as the castle town's dark fountain is more "natural", it could be that Ralsei is, like, a native darkner, that is, one that occurs naturally rather than being an object. While I'm theorizing about the nature of darkners, it seems like the darkners exist even when there's no open dark fountain, based on how Seam, Jevil, Spamson, and others seem to have histories stretching back decades. I'm not even sure what to make of that, honestly. Does that mean there's like a parallel world at all times, where all inanimate objects are people, and dark fountains just make them manifest and accessible to lightners? Feel like this is something that'll get a little more detail later. If Ralsei can be taken at his word, it sounds a lot like the Dark World is just a physical manifestation of the concepts of imagination and creativity within people living in the "real world".
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:24
|
|
|
EclecticTastes posted:It just occurred to me that, for everyone wondering how Ralsei was able to even show up in the second dark world, he probably just used the big gold doors near his castle. That's how everyone got into the first dark world in Chapter 1, it may be that they open up whenever there are other dark worlds it can connect to, at a narratively appropriate moment you enter Ralsei's kingdom through the closet and go through the door to the old classroom. The two rooms are next to each other with a door between them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:24
|
|
|
Solitair posted:How much you wanna bet her mom's name is Carol? 100% chance (or some variation thereof)
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:25
|
|
|
EclecticTastes posted:It just occurred to me that, for everyone wondering how Ralsei was able to even show up in the second dark world, he probably just used the big gold doors near his castle. That's how everyone got into the first dark world in Chapter 1, it may be that they open up whenever there are other dark worlds it can connect to, at a narratively appropriate moment, i.e. whenever Ralsei needs to show up (which is why it will never open for Kris again, because the castle town will likely only be accessible before and after any given dark world). That's also likely how Ralsei got back to the castle town, is, when the fountain is closed, he's dropped off back at the doors, while everyone else gets dumped back into the real world. Also, everyone's been theorizing that Ralsei, like other darkners, is a transformed item, but just as the castle town's dark fountain is more "natural", it could be that Ralsei is, like, a native darkner, that is, one that occurs naturally rather than being an object. While I'm theorizing about the nature of darkners, it seems like the darkners exist even when there's no open dark fountain, based on how Seam, Jevil, Spamson, and others seem to have histories stretching back decades. I'm not even sure what to make of that, honestly. Does that mean there's like a parallel world at all times, where all inanimate objects are people, and dark fountains just make them manifest and accessible to lightners? Feel like this is something that'll get a little more detail later. Something that could probably address that was that the dark world was used as a form of escapism before, long before the current events that made it relevant again. Alternatively the Darkners were "programmed" with histories when Kris created them. The Saddest Rhino posted:hopefully i'm wrong but i don't know if the online response to the snowgrave route will cause a bunch of backlash against toby fox & co, because it requires you actively emotionally manipulating a vulnerable character resulting in her actually The most I saw of it so far was just people being horrified at that route and finding it darker than the bad times route in Undertale. Of course right now it was like just discovered and maybe like 1% of the playerbase or so even knows it exists at the moment. Who knows how people will react when it gets more public knowledge. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:02 |
|
|
Pastel Candy Snake posted:Sounds like Spear of Justice to me Yup! I dunno why I have so much trouble recognizing that song. Anyway, given recent events quote:obj_caradventure_car_slash_Step_0_gml_80_0_b Given how some searches get misinterpreted this gives me some bad vibes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 10:28
|
|