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Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

MickeyFinn posted:

Do these buildings have a professional manager paid to be on site and keep track of this sort of stuff, or do the councils just wait until there are too many false fire alarms or something like that?

Yeah, varies by location. I only know BC has requirements on councils to get professional reports every X some time period. Doesn't mean that they'll actually do the maintenance though.
The report will say that to be confident they need to collect X dollars every year in strata fees, and to do that they need to raise the fees 45%.

Well, that's never going to happen so they defer everything as long as they can until the building is in terrible shape. This goes on across the sector until half the apartment building stock is in disrepair and insurance companies have to increase their rates because it's basically guaranteed that something extremely costly is going to happen.

You have to hope that your strata council has the foresight to actually keep the building in good financial shape as opposed to not wanting to upset the owners who don't want to pay for anything because they're putting 60% of their income into the mortgage.


A lot of buildings do have professional managers but they can't force the council to do anything unfortunately.

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MickeyFinn
May 8, 2007
Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

Mantle posted:

Pensioners are rich. I'd love to have a pension that covered my cost of owning property.

Spending too much of your income on the house you own is literally called "house poor." I get what you are saying here, because someone who spends the same amount on renting is just regular "poor," but not being able to maintain your buildings because the old people who live there can't afford it is a problem. Maybe stratas should have income requirements? If you aren't making 3x the monthly payment, you can't buy here. (For example.)

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
Had a bout of exasperation wrt one of my housemates being a disgusting slob so I had a looksie at other apartments, as a hypothetical.

At this point my options are to resign myself to his lovely mess in common areas, tell him to get the gently caress out and roll the dice on another rando housemate, ask my boss for a raise in the middle of a pandemic to cover extra expenses, or get married and hope two incomes is enough for one bedroom.

As things stand it's not physically possible to live alone with my current income and it's becoming harder and harder every passing day.

COPE 27
Sep 11, 2006

My household income is apparently 95%+ percentile and we can't afford to buy a house or have a family probably ever because both of our families are poor and didn't pay for college and downpayments like our more "successful" friends.

the talent deficit
Dec 20, 2003

self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture





you need an annual income of $230k to buy the median single family home in greater vancouver (~1.4 mil). that's assuming you have $240k lying around for a down payment

that's 97th percentile for the region

Slotducks
Oct 16, 2008

Nobody puts Phil in a corner.


evilpicard posted:

My household income is apparently 95%+ percentile and we can't afford to buy a house or have a family probably ever because both of our families are poor and didn't pay for college and downpayments like our more "successful" friends.

Same boat - all by ourselves we're in the 90th percentile in Ontario here and I'm looking to buy in places 100+ km away from Toronto and still can't afford it.

This poo poo's hosed

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/landlord-denied-tenant-tattoos-london-1.6178804

Goddamn I hope this person nails this idiot landlord to the wall in small claims court.

Slotducks posted:

Same boat - all by ourselves we're in the 90th percentile in Ontario here and I'm looking to buy in places 100+ km away from Toronto and still can't afford it.

This poo poo's hosed

Where did you calculate what percentile you're in?

Slotducks
Oct 16, 2008

Nobody puts Phil in a corner.


https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/household-income-percentile-calculator-for-canada/

it's probably garbage data - but still

kaom
Jan 20, 2007


Alternatively

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/dv-vd/inc-rev/index-eng.cfm

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice



Thanks!

According to this my income is in the "pretty loving high" percentile. Weird how I can't afford a house and can barely afford a condo now.

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."





"Enter Your Net Worth"




Yeah this is the one. Would be good to get household income too, but I don't see it in such a nice format.

It'd be good to plot that against housing affordability.

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Lead out in cuffs posted:

"Enter Your Net Worth"

Yeah this is the one. Would be good to get household income too, but I don't see it in such a nice format.

It'd be good to plot that against housing affordability.

Did you accidentally go to this one instead?

https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/income-percentile-calculator-by-province-for-canada/

I think that's a typo anyway.

half cocaine
Jul 22, 2019


I had no idea Ft St John is so rich.

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




So something else that isn't talked about much in terms of housing costs is how it affects child care. Vancouver has been in a child care crisis for at least 10 years (just going by news articles about it), and probably a lot longer. In terms of numbers, there is only one licensed daycare slot for every three children. So granted, there are stay-at-home parents and some people have live-in grandparents, so not all of those kids need child care, but it's still way fewer spots than the demand. So what a lot of people end up doing is using unlicensed daycares and nanny shares instead. (Or just up and leaving Vancouver).

When you talk to people who are nannying, many of them would love to instead open up a daycare and do things more legitimately, but with the cost of both rent and property, they just can't find suitable locations to operate out of. The City are pretty aware of this as a problem, but they don't have the funds, and it is not their jurisdiction to be fixing it. The Feds and the Province have finally started putting some money towards this, although it's way too little and way too late, and if the conservatives get in at the federal level, then RIP any more money being put into it. And things are just going to get worse if housing prices keep going up.

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




Cold on a Cob posted:

Did you accidentally go to this one instead?

https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/income-percentile-calculator-by-province-for-canada/

I think that's a typo anyway.

Also JFC that site. :psyduck:

"How To Buy An Apartment Building And Make A Whopping 110% In Three Years"
"How to Become a Decamillionaire, Grow your Net Worth to $10 Million, and Join the 1% Club"

Ten years ago, when the idea of the richest 1% as a group was being tossed around, it was in the sense of a section of the public baying for their blood, not as a prestige thing.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Looks like Taleeb Noormohamed is going to execute his best flip ever with NDP leading in Vancouver Granville

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

qhat posted:

Looks like Taleeb Noormohamed is going to execute his best flip ever with NDP leading in Vancouver Granville

Lol and there it goes. It's bouncing back and forth.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Arc Hammer posted:

Lol and there it goes. It's bouncing back and forth.

Yeah it's real tight. Might not even know tonight until they open the mail in ballots.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Fidelitious posted:

Have you taken a look at your strata's financial state recently? If you're lucky there might be a couple hundred thousand in the reserve. Condo building insurance rates skyrocketed over the last 5 years in BC, like often more than doubling.
In any case, any expenditure other than routine maintenance is going to lead to special assessments. The costs of big-ticket items at the scale of an apartment building (and regulatory requirements) are simply too big to be covered by strata fees. Those commercial-scale fire alarm panels that can pinpoint which alarm was the trigger? Hundreds of thousands to replace.

Reserve funds would have to be funded into the millions.

It's honestly one of the things that drove us away from Vancouver. We couldn't accept paying 600k+ for an 'ok' condo which will have an additional 4-500 in strata fees every month and then it's only a matter of time until the inevitable special assessment comes. People with the privilege to have access to enough capital to buy a non-apartment come out ahead here I think. The initial outlay is higher but I'm betting in a lot of cases the ongoing costs are actually lower as long as you do some maintenance.

The engineer's report saying that the work is needed seems legit I guess.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Now he's leading by 2 votes.

The hosed up thing for me is that my citizenship application is trapped in the immigration pandemic backlog. If I had my vote, it may have legitimately decided the MP.

Mantle
May 15, 2004

qhat posted:

Now he's leading by 2 votes.

The hosed up thing for me is that my citizenship application is trapped in the immigration pandemic backlog. If I had my vote, it may have legitimately decided the MP.

You and the 19,340 others you mean

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
evergrande's effects on NZ/AUS but it could possibly apply here too?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/chinese-housing-giant-unable-to-pay-debts-and-could-wreck-global-economy/5CFU72UJR7NZUSIMEYO6NT22UM/

In a scenario where a protracted crisis unfolds within the Chinese property sector, the Australian and New Zealand property market and economy could end up feeling the heat.

If Chinese investors who own Australian or Kiwi property are forced to liquidate their assets in order to cover bad debts, some suburbs with a high proportion of Chinese ownership could see a significant increase in the number of properties on the market.

There are also Chinese property developers who have large holdings of Australian real estate, who could be forced to liquidate their foreign asset holdings as they attempt to keep their businesses afloat.

[...]

if Xi is willing to roll the dice on truly reining in excess in the property sector and Chinese financial markets, Evergrande's woes could be just the beginning of a more protracted crisis with consequences that could echo throughout the world.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

How will the defaulting of Evergrande impact the Canadian housing market, considering how much Chinese investment is in the country?

tagesschau
Sep 1, 2006

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR


Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

evilpicard posted:

we can't afford to buy a house or have a family probably ever because both of our families are poor and didn't borrow against their home to give us money for college and downpayments like our more "successful" friends.

It remains frustrating that we make significantly more than the average household in our neighborhood (but aren't space rich), and home prices start at roughly "give me all the money you have."

Claes Oldenburger
Apr 23, 2010

Metal magician!
:black101:

Grouchio posted:

How will the defaulting of Evergrande impact the Canadian housing market, considering how much Chinese investment is in the country?

The reality is no one knows. Could be a blip, could be massive. If it's massive it's going to affect everything, not just houses.

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

Isn't RBC the second largest holder of Evergrande bonds?

Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Grouchio posted:

How will the defaulting of Evergrande impact the Canadian housing market, considering how much Chinese investment is in the country?

If you are (effectively) getting a huge margin call back home in China (in the form of one of your biggest investments suddenly going to zero), you are pretty much guaranteed to sell off assets elsewhere to cover those debts.

EngineerJoe
Aug 8, 2004
-=whore=-



How can we make money off this?

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Borrow a house, sell it, then repurchase it six months from now

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

A house on my street just sold for $1.65 million after 4 days on the market. Who the gently caress is buying these?

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



McGavin posted:

A house on my street just sold for $1.65 million after 4 days on the market. Who the gently caress is buying these?

Taleeb Noormohamed?

MickeyFinn
May 8, 2007
Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

McGavin posted:

A house on my street just sold for $1.65 million after 4 days on the market. Who the gently caress is buying these?

Greed and fear.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

What did rich people spend their money on in the 1990s when they could get a SFH in Vancouver for a few hundred thousand dollars instead of $1.65M?

Like is the modern art or boat industry suffering now as a result because all the money is going toward homes? lol.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Demand for boats is at an all time high right now.

All of this has nothing at all to do with how much liquid cash people have. It's all credit, the cheaper the credit, the higher asset prices will trend, and the more people will spend on these luxury items.

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
you still need a lot of cash to even mortgage $1.65 million. There's a lotta cash sloshin' around out there.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



leftist heap posted:

you still need a lot of cash to even mortgage $1.65 million. There's a lotta cash sloshin' around out there.

Cash, or illiquid assets? Because if I search for zero-down mortgages in Canada I get a non-zero number of results.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


leftist heap posted:

you still need a lot of cash to even mortgage $1.65 million. There's a lotta cash sloshin' around out there.
Not really. It all funnels up from the bottom, poor person gets a high ratio loan to buy a 400k condo from a person who uses the appreciation to upgrade to an 800k townhouse purchased from the guy buying the $1.65m SFH. The people buying the 1.65m homes are either extremely high percentile earners or people who are using their existing home appreciation as the down payment. It all stops when the credit taps turn off and there's no more first time buyers to sell the 400k condo to.

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe

eXXon posted:

Cash, or illiquid assets? Because if I search for zero-down mortgages in Canada I get a non-zero number of results.

We've been over this poo poo before in this thread. No matter how you slice it banks and monoline lenders make up the vast majority of residential mortgages and none of them are doing zero-down mortgages.


qhat posted:

Not really. It all funnels up from the bottom, poor person gets a high ratio loan to buy a 400k condo from a person who uses the appreciation to upgrade to an 800k townhouse purchased from the guy buying the $1.65m SFH. The people buying the 1.65m homes are either extremely high percentile earners or people who are using their existing home appreciation as the down payment. It all stops when the credit taps turn off and there's no more first time buyers to sell the 400k condo to.

Ok well if it doesn't take cash to get into the housing market then full your boots m8

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

qhat posted:

It all stops when the credit taps turn off and there's no more first time buyers to sell the 400k condo to.

I wouldn't say it stops so much as the lower assets start rolling into the portfolios of the people at the higher end and being turned into rentals

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Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
Vancouver renter questions landlord's 'duplicitous' new payment scheme

quote:

Vancouver renter questions landlord's 'duplicitous' new payment scheme

Tenant told he must pay utility fees to a new company owned by landlord

Karin Larsen - CBC News

Posted: September 22, 2021
Last Updated: September 22, 2021

A Vancouver man is worried that a new payment scheme introduced by his landlord means he'll soon be paying more for his two-bedroom apartment in the city's West End neighbourhood.

Wesley Harmer has rented at the 84-suite Holly Lodge building for five years and intended on renewing for a sixth when his lease expires at the end of the month.

But major changes in his new lease documents have raised red flags.

Instead of his current rent of $2,225 per month — utilities included except hydro — the new agreement quotes a lower rental rate but insists he open an account at APT Utility Corp. to start paying $530 per month in utility charges separate from his rent.

Harmer said he fears that once cleaved from his rental agreement, his utility costs will no longer be subject to provincial rent controls.


"It looks like they're just trying to make extra money because they weren't able to increase rent for two years," he said. "There is nothing protecting us from a sudden increase."

In 2018, the province tied the maximum annual allowable rent increase to the rate of inflation, and during the pandemic, rents were frozen altogether until Dec. 31, 2021. The maximum allowable rent increase for 2022 has been set at 1.5 per cent.

Harmer became concerned after looking into APT Utility Corp. and discovering a website that provided little information, together with an address tied to the basement of a house on Bute Street.

Most surprising, however, was learning that APT's domain was registered by Wolverton Securities Ltd., one of the many companies in the portfolio of his landlord, Brent Wolverton, who owns several Vancouver rental buildings.

"It looks rather duplicitous that the owner is strategically pretending like he doesn't own this [utility] company. One has to ask why,'' Harmer said. "It doesn't seem above board."

A lawyer with the Tenant Resource and Advisory Centre (TRAC) said the situation at Holly Lodge is something he's never seen before.

"Over the past two years with the rent freeze, if landlords are looking to try and get more income with the recent changes to the Residential Tenancy Act, the province has made it much harder," Rob Patterson said. "So we're seeing, I think, new tactics emerging from landlords who put profit above everything else."

A notice introducing APT Utility Corp. to Holly Lodge tenants reads, in part, "APT Utility Corp has been hired by a building owner to take over handling all the work involved in managing utilities for the building.

"This means that each tenant going forward will pay rent to us, as the building owner, exclusive of utilities. They will also pay APT for utilities including electricity, heat, water, sewer and garbage ... but other than paying two bills each month instead of one, your total bill after the change will be the same."

In an emailed statement, Brent Wolverton said the change at Holly Lodge "does not affect the limit on rent increases, which we will continue to comply with."

However, he states, "We think it is clear from the Residential Tenancy Act that the government meant the rental cap to limit increases in rents, not utilities and rents."

Wolverton said utility costs are increasing faster than the rate of inflation and have been "inadvertently" caught by the province's restrictions.

"With the provincial government capping rent, this has become a huge issue as subsidizing utility cost increases is unsustainable for landlords," he said.

In an email to Harmer, Wolverton wrote, "After we hand over your utilities to the utility company, if you did not wish to purchase utilities from APT they will simply be turned off and/or you may be evicted."

Harmer has taken his concerns to the province's Residential Tenancy Branch. A branch spokesperson told CBC News that it could not comment on the specifics of the case because the Compliance and Enforcement Unit (CEU) is assessing whether to open an investigation.

In a 2019 decision, the CEU levied a rare penalty of $1,000 against Huntley Investments Ltd. and Brent Wolverton for misrepresenting the company as a family corporation to justify evicting tenants from a Melville Street property.

A closer look
Harmer's existing tenancy agreement sets his total monthly rent at $2,225, of which $100 is earmarked for utilities. The entire amount is subject to provincial restrictions on rent increases. Harmer pays his hydro bill separately, which he estimates averages $15 a month.

In the new tenancy agreement, Harmer's monthly rent charge would drop to $1,640, with zero dollars earmarked for utilities. A separate form states that he will be charged separately for utilities, including hydro, an average of $530 per month after "mandatory" sign-up with APT Utility Corp.

The legislation says a landlord may terminate or restrict a service if rent is reduced in an equivalent amount to the value of the service.

Harmer disputes that his actual utility usage comes anywhere near $530 per month because he is often away for work. Wolverton said charges will be based on the square footage of each unit.

Patterson, the lawyer with TRAC, said the complexity of the situation may ultimately require an arbitrator to sort it out.

One point of contention could be whether APT Utility Corp. can be considered an alternative service provider to Holly Lodge tenants.

Under the Residential Tenancy Act, landlords cannot terminate a service that is deemed essential. However, the RTB withdrawal of service form states that a service is considered not essential "if the tenant can obtain it, or a reasonable substitute, from an alternative source."

"A tenant could argue that the landlord's utilities company is not an 'alternative source,' since it is still owned/operated by the landlord,: Patterson said.

His advice to renters is they should never feel pressured into signing anything they don't understand.


EDIT: This same loving landlord spent 6 years trying to evict tenants in bad faith.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-attempted-evictions-rejected-1.5083931

Take away all of his "investments" and add them to the public housing pool when the tenants voluntarily move on.

Cold on a Cob fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Sep 23, 2021

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