|
Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Black Beauty |
|
2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
|
4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
|
117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
|
11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
|
54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
|
virtualboyCOLOR posted:The US should govern the people they have not the people they want. Yeah, fair enough, I don't disagree with that. The last statement of my post, while I think true, wasn't the main point - I'm simply saying that just because the U.S. government (and most governments really) deserves criticism, that doesn't mean that individuals don't deserve criticism. Both things can definitely be true - the government can fail to everything they can to get people vaccinated, and individual people who don't get vaccinated can be criticized for being selfish assholes who are contributing to prolonging the pandemic.
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 10:14 |
|
|
Vasukhani posted:If you have a doctor you're rich. Hope this helps. Did you go to a non-emergent doctor's appointment at some point after your discharge? Did you get annual/semi-regular check-ups? If so, you're in the elite. I have had a doctor while on Medicaid, a Federal healthcare program that you can only qualify for if you fall within a certain degree of the poverty line. e: link for further reading if you are interested https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 16:53
|
|
|
Gio posted:The vaccines, at this present time, still greatly lower individuals’ risk for severe disease and death, but the Biden Administration deliberately ignored warning signs of the threat Delta posed because they had told people to take off their masks, it’s perfectly safe, and because it ran in the way of plans to fully reopen schools. Vaccines also greatly lower your risk for being infected in the first place for most people in the U.S., particularly if you were vaccinated recently. There's a very persistent talking point that vaccines do absolutely nothing to prevent infection, and it's 100% false, even in the most pessimistic data coming out of Israel.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 16:53
|
|
|
enki42 posted:Yeah, fair enough, I don't disagree with that. The last statement of my post, while I think true, wasn't the main point - I'm simply saying that just because the U.S. government (and most governments really) deserves criticism, that doesn't mean that individuals don't deserve criticism. There is not difference between the state and the individual. Individual actions are literally irrelevant, its like painting your car a different color to make it go faster.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 16:54
|
|
|
How are u posted:I have had a doctor while on Medicaid, a Federal healthcare program that you can only qualify for if you fall within a certain degree of the poverty line. Doesn't change the fact that something like 40% of Americans don't regularly go to the doctor.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 16:56
|
|
|
Vasukhani posted:Doesn't change the fact that something like 40% of Americans don't regularly go to the doctor. I agree that that's concerning, I wish people would go to the doctor more often. I was, however, merely responding to your false assertion that the only people who have doctors are rich.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 16:58
|
|
|
Vasukhani posted:There is not difference between the state and the individual. Individual actions are literally irrelevant, its like painting your car a different color to make it go faster. I don't agree. At a minimum, people actively spreading disinformation about vaccines have an observable, material impact that contributes to the pandemic continuing. No state actor is sending the message that vaccines potentially have long-term side effects, or affect fertility, or that spike protein shedding is a risk, so the fact that these memes exist in society and people choose to not get vaccinated based on them is evidence that non-state actors have an impact on vaccine uptake. That doesn't absolve the state by any means, but people failing to take a free treatment that has a very significant impact on their survival if they were to catch COVID, a significant effect on their ability to catch it in the first place, and a significant effect on their ability to spread it to others are worthy of criticism.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 16:59
|
|
|
Vasukhani posted:Doesn't change the fact that something like 40% of Americans don't regularly go to the doctor. Your claim was that going to the doctor makes you an "elite". 60% of Americans are not in the elite. (while it still being absolutely concerning and a problem that 40% don't).
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:00
|
|
|
enki42 posted:Vaccines also greatly lower your risk for being infected in the first place for most people in the U.S., particularly if you were vaccinated recently. There's a very persistent talking point that vaccines do absolutely nothing to prevent infection, and it's 100% false, even in the most pessimistic data coming out of Israel. Let’s assume vaccine efficacy against symptomatic infection is something like 40-60% after only four months, which aligns with the data out of Israel and corroborated by others. https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1439295345914114049?s=21 I would go with the lower bound based on personal experience of multiple friends and family that have had breakthrough infections, including an uncle who was hospitalized with pneumonia. I’m not going to quibble over semantics because it’s all relative, but I, personally, do not consider that “greatly lowering your risk,” certainly not enough to warrant taking off my mask in public places or at work. e: I’d also like to kindly point out that I did not say they do nothing to prevent infection, only that breakthroughs were common (true) and that vaccinated people are spreading Covid (also true). Gio fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:09
|
|
|
Gio posted:I would go with the lower bound based on personal experience of multiple friends and family that have had breakthrough infections, including an uncle who was hospitalized with pneumonia. I’m not going to quibble over semantics because it’s all relative, but I, personally, do not consider that “greatly lowering your risk,” certainly not enough to warrant taking off my mask in public places or at work. Oh, absolutely you shouldn't be taking your mask off in an indoor area, even when vaccinated. 40% isn't amazing, but it's about as good as any other intervention save full on lockdowns. I will agree "greatly reduces" is too strong (I meant to say that the current state of the US is that vaccines haven't waned much, but I forget how early the U.S. was vaccinated), but there is too much misinformation about there that vaccines are totally useless against infection (it's a common talking point against vaccine passports). enki42 fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:12
|
|
|
enki42 posted:I don't agree. At a minimum, people actively spreading disinformation about vaccines have an observable, material impact that contributes to the pandemic continuing. No state actor is sending the message that vaccines potentially have long-term side effects, or affect fertility, or that spike protein shedding is a risk, so the fact that these memes exist in society and people choose to not get vaccinated based on them is evidence that non-state actors have an impact on vaccine uptake. People are a product of the state though. Free will is very bounded.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
Vasukhani posted:People are a product of the state though. Free will is very bounded. Well then my criticism of unvaccinated people isn't my fault anyway and cannot be criticized since the state conditioned me to do it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:18
|
|
|
I’m personally fine with criticizing individuals but only as individuals. When it becomes a group or collective then it’s a problem of the government. What is the purpose of government other than to protect its citizens in exchange for taxes / freedoms? Again. I’m fully aware that the Biden administration, Democrats, and Republicans do not have my family’s best interest at heart and therefor I will look towards experts that do. Right now the experts have been incredibly critical of the CDC and FDA. Simultaneously other countries (New Zealand and China) have been enacting policies that actually curb the threat of covid. Israel is also doing prolly the best “open everything” option using masks and boosters so I’ll look towards their outcome and adjust as well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:26
|
|
|
How are u posted:I'm not wishing death on anybody. At this point in the pandemic in the United States if somebody has not taken the vaccine (outside of an extremely small group of immunocompromised folks + kids young enough to not be eligible) then it is absolutely entirely your own choice. That's the facts, as far as I see them. I wish people would make better choices to save their own lives, and I'm glad that mandates and an increasing amount of 'sticks' present in society are slowly making a difference in the overall vaccine rate. I'm going to quote a post I made in the c-spam thread a while back because I think it might help you understand where I am coming from about this. empty whippet box posted:A good friend of mine in mississippi, who is black, is still not vaccinated. He is living/working in Florida at the moment. I have spoken to him about it and urged him to get it and told him I am afraid for him and his family. He has had many run-ins with the law, one of which(over a gram of weed he had on him going through a roadblock in 2019) caused him and his family(3 kids!) to go homeless and live in a hotel for the entirety of 2020. He doesn't want to go give his name anywhere, and even telling him he doesn't need to give his name didn't do it. I've told him that while these are reasonable reasons to be nervous about it, that covid is loving terrifying and I worry for him. He says he doesn't go anywhere but work and just stays inside mostly so he thinks he'll be fine. Of course I know this is not true - I'm sure he's still hustling on the side(I know him from my days years ago doing the same) and last I saw him he was still doing stuff like passing blunts around with people who were also one step away from homelessness in the hotel he was living in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:33
|
|
). I laughed at their self inflicted suffering before this and I'll laugh at it afterwards. If I have any energy or mental space to have sympathy for those people or try to reach out to those people it'd be 10 trillion times better to use that energy having sympathy or reaching out to people like my friend who I described here.
|
Vasukhani posted:Doesn't change the fact that something like 40% of Americans don't regularly go to the doctor. This is not the same as 40% of Americans do not have a doctor. I have been insured by private companies; I have been on medicaid. I have purchased cheap, lovely, obsolete insulin at Wal-Mart because even with insurance my insulin was too expensive, as a means to survive. I have never made more than around 23,000 dollars a year. If you want to make the global argument that simply living in the United States makes one "rich" in relative terms, I certainly wouldn't dispute that, but to claim that everyone in the US that has a doctor in the US is rich is absurd. I worked in healthcare that was precisely targeted at helping people get the health care they need even if they don't have the money to pay. Just some perspective for you, I'm not going to tell you that you have a dumb opinion or anything, I'm sure your assessment is based on your personal experiences and observations same as mine. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:34
|
|
|
empty whippet box posted:I'm going to quote a post I made in the c-spam thread a while back because I think it might help you understand where I am coming from about this. These people absolutely deserve compassion and patience as we attempt to reach them for sure. But you know that people in here frustrated with anti-vaxxers (or you should know) aren't speaking of them when they are complaining about anti-vaxxers. People are gonna vent, and the fact is most of the anti-vax movement is extremely privileged, and extremely white. I'm not a fan of the sweeping generalizations that How are u is making but I also don't assume the worst of their argument. e: Thanks for sharing your perspective though, I have some friends that fall into the same category, but they have all gotten vaxxed at this point. Hope your friend gets there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covi...100000068415488 Fauci predicts boosters will be required. Are we not supposed to listen to Fauci now? quote:
I know I’m being facetious but that is what makes listening to liberals a bit frustrating. There aren’t any consistencies. It’s why it was easy for anti-vaxxors and Republicans (same thing at this point) to point out the CDC doesn’t know what they are doing. You can’t tell people: Masks don’t work… Well they actually do but we lied about it… But don’t wear N95 masks… While it’s an airborne disease, just wash your hands and you’ll be fine… You can’t spread the virus if you are fully vaccinated so drop the mask… Well actually you can spread the virus but we won’t track breakthrough cases unless you end up on the vent or die… Well actually you may need a booster but the fda says you don’t… Well I think you’ll need a booster…. That doesn’t sound like a government institution that is dealing with science as it becomes available. That sounds like an institution that, at best, has poo poo messaging, or, at worst, is incompetent. Be consistent. Say what the facts are and adjust. Right now, the message should be: 1) get vaccinated 2) don’t go out unless you need to 3) wear a respirator, N95 mask, or KN94 mask. Cloth masks are a last resort and should only be considered a minor protection 4) no large indoor gatherings of any kind 5) remote schooling is the only way to protect unvaccinated children That is what the science actually says, and has said since early 2020. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:45
|
|
|
There is a difference between "boosters will be required" (no poo poo we get annual flu shots) and "vaccine boosters are needed by everyone right now and should be given to anyone who wants one no questions asked." There is nuance to this discussion that's being lost by people shouting past each other in a race to be the most morally superior. No one here is on Covid's side. e: I wanted to call out Fritz the Horse and Stickman for bringing up the quality of discussion over (my) night and making the thread a pleasure to catch up on this morning. Thanks to VBC and empty whippet box for sharing their perspectives as well. If any of you want a new av let me know.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:51
|
|
|
Professor Beetus posted:These people absolutely deserve compassion and patience as we attempt to reach them for sure. But you know that people in here frustrated with anti-vaxxers (or you should know) aren't speaking of them when they are complaining about anti-vaxxers. People are gonna vent, and the fact is most of the anti-vax movement is extremely privileged, and extremely white. I'm not a fan of the sweeping generalizations that How are u is making but I also don't assume the worst of their argument. I think that people such as how are u may really not realize that people such as this exist. I don't think he's just venting with an understood asterisk next to what he's saying that considers people like my friend, I think he genuinely doesn't realize they exist and doesn't realize that he is including them in his callousness.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:54
|
|
|
enki42 posted:Well then my criticism of unvaccinated people isn't my fault anyway and cannot be criticized since the state conditioned me to do it. Yes. Now you're getting it. Americans are individual-centric due to their protestant ideology which sees humans as beings with souls and god-given rights, which it is the state's job to protect. Humans don't exist as individuals though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
The issue is that this is coming from an individual who already admitted to lying about masks that would have protected my family. It is also coming from an institution that ignores the science and still recommends unvaccinated kids go to cramped schools. It’s not a hard leap to go “man the CDC doesn’t sound like they have their poo poo together” to “I should see what other countries that have controlled the spread of a deadly / debilitating novel virus are doing”.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
empty whippet box posted:I think that people such as how are u may really not realize that people such as this exist. I don't think he's just venting with an understood asterisk next to what he's saying that considers people like my friend, I think he genuinely doesn't realize they exist and doesn't realize that he is including them in his callousness. That's fair, and maybe I have an overly optimistic view of posters here, but I do know that assuming the worst is rarely conducive to the thread remaining readable. I don't think you were crossing any lines or being abusive or anything like that, I'm just trying to help guide people to a little more compassion for their fellow posters. Sorry if it's coming across as overbearing, mea culpa.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:02
|
|
|
enki42 posted:Well then my criticism of unvaccinated people isn't my fault anyway and cannot be criticized since the state conditioned me to do it. I mean you joke but yeah you've been conditioned to think republicans are just dumb or whatever instead of looking at what might make them that way, or how the system benefits from both your and their attitudes towards things.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:13
|
|
|
Professor Beetus posted:That's fair, and maybe I have an overly optimistic view of posters here, but I do know that assuming the worst is rarely conducive to the thread remaining readable. I don't think you were crossing any lines or being abusive or anything like that, I'm just trying to help guide people to a little more compassion for their fellow posters. Sorry if it's coming across as overbearing, mea culpa. Nah, I didn't think anything like that and I don't mean to attack how are u over this knowledge gap. Not everyone has experienced poverty or been close to people who have or are. At the same time, it's easy for those of us who have to assume that people have. People frequently seem astounded at the callousness of the rich towards the poor and say things like "don't they know how horrible they're being?" - no. They don't. They actually really very likely do not have any idea what the lives of people who live on minimum wage or less are like. It's not because they went out of their way to avoid it, it's because their lives were insulated from that experience and knowledge, for whatever reason. But you don't even have to be rich to be insulated in this way - even being raised in a family with even $60k combined income between the parents is more than enough for this because the well that is poverty is deep and dark and nearly bottomless. Peering in from the top is not the same as falling down the well and you simply cannot gain the same knowledge from it. There is a real lived experience that cannot be effectively explained or taught to someone that has not lived it and their lack of understanding is not an intentional thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:14
|
|
|
In my country I'll gladly call you a moron if you're anti-vaxx. But isn't it entirely possible in the US for a person to only be exposed to far right news? If so, are you really a moron for distrusting a vaccine if every news source you have is telling you that it's bad? On your commute you hear on the radio about how the liberals are trying to kill you with vaccines, your coworkers agree, then you turn on the news when you get home and they're telling you the same poo poo. And then your facebook is full of friends and family afraid of the vaccine. Etc. Don't get me wrong there are morons out there not getting the jab even though they have all the info they need. But it looks like you've got a significant population that are just so deep in the propaganda hole they have no chance. It feels like being mad at a North Korean for thinking Kim Jong-Un is a the greatest man alive. America has failed those people hard.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:27
|
|
|
I think that most of the people who are so far down the rightwing propaganda hole that they literally do not get news from anywhere else are pretty bad loving people. Those are the worst of the chuds, the fascists who want people like me dead and want authoritarian fascism rather than democracy. I don't really have a lot of sympathy for those specific people, at all. I would still hope that they get vaccinated and save their lives, but I'm also not losing any sleep whatsoever when it comes to those people.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:30
|
|
|
Phigs posted:In my country I'll gladly call you a moron if you're anti-vaxx. But isn't it entirely possible in the US for a person to only be exposed to far right news? If so, are you really a moron for distrusting a vaccine if every news source you have is telling you that it's bad? On your commute you hear on the radio about how the liberals are trying to kill you with vaccines, your coworkers agree, then you turn on the news when you get home and they're telling you the same poo poo. And then your facebook is full of friends and family afraid of the vaccine. Etc. yes, still a moron then
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:31
|
|
|
empty whippet box posted:I think that people such as how are u may really not realize that people such as this exist. I don't think he's just venting with an understood asterisk next to what he's saying that considers people like my friend, I think he genuinely doesn't realize they exist and doesn't realize that he is including them in his callousness. I think they probably have some degree of emotional investment in a worldview that won’t allow them to comfortably believe that people in that situation exist, so they’ll continue to ignore those situations and prioritize the worldview that lets them keep living in a horrible, intolerable world that they couldn’t continue to live in otherwise. It’s not really a personal failing, but it’s a problem.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:44
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:I missed the discussion of state level actions earlier but wanted to mention that Maryland has already taken such actions that effectively expand the FDA's authorization beyond what was originally intended: Since it was brought up: I didn't find the discussion on marijuana vs covid vaccines and regulation very satisfying. The question was essentially "if states can legalize marijuana, why can't they legalize covid boosters?" The answers were repeated references to the Civil War and nullification, and the 10th amendment, which I think missed the intent of the question. The question is how specifically the two are different, after all both are 'drugs'. The short answer is that at the federal level the two are not different. The difference is one of enforcement. I looked at the legal mechanisms, not whether a state has the right people in the right place to make a medical determination that boosters are needed or marijuana is cool and good. Marijuana States are essentially saying "you made the law, you enforce it". States only get away with legalizing medical and recreational use of marijuana because the federal government allows it. The Feds supposed, and won, in Gonzales v Raich the authority to stop someone producing marijuana for personal, medical reasons. This authority is based on the Commerce Clause of the Constitution as defined in Wickard v Filburn. As recently as 2018 the Justice Department issued a memo that ask the Feds to again start applying/enforcing rules against marijuana. Feds could enforce federal laws on marijuana if they wanted, the difficulty is one of resources. Obama said "don't waste your time", Trump (through Sessions) said "get em". Lack of federal resources meant that it was left to states to enforce laws prohibiting marijuana, state or federal. But that was when state and federal law were aligned. However, New York v United States says the Feds can't make State officials adopt or enforce federal laws. This is the origin of 10th amendment protections mentioned previously. It turns out that NY v US comes up a lot! Including enforcing federal hand gun bans in Montana and trying to get sanctuary cities to turn over immigrants. This discrepancy between federal and state laws results in weird things like marijuana business not being able to get bank accounts. This is because banks are weary of federal laws! This is important to remember for the discussion of COVID vaccines. There are attempts to remove the conflict between federal and state governments through the STATES act. COVID Boosters As was mentioned, there is a lot still up in the air about COVID boosters and mandates. I think the way to look at this when comparing to marijuana is to remember that the producers of vaccines really do not want to get on the bad side of the US federal government. Much like banks and marijuana businesses. For the sake of argument, say that Washington state did authorize boosters for everyone. The federal government could try to enforce its authority granted to the FDA/Feds by the Commerce Clause against the state of Washington and the companies making the vaccine, the people transporting from where it is made to Washington and so on. This is the origin of other posters pointing to Nullification. I emphasize try, they may not succeed. Companies hate this kind of uncertainty though, so I suspect that should Washington state demand boosters that there wouldn't be any vaccines to give anyway. For the moment the federal government isn't challenging Washington state's legalization of marijuana directly, as far as I know. Whether they would do so for boosters is, I suspect, irrelevant. In Washington, marijuana legalization was passed by statewide vote. That is very different from a Governor taking sole responsibility for vaccine side effects from boosters. Once more this is a political consideration. I am sure the previous statement will cause a great deal of consternation among those who have seen enough to think boosters are good. One could also argue that the federal government would not dare stop a state from vaccinating its people if the state so chose. Or maybe companies would ship vaccines anyway and claim the same protection gun manufacturers get. The Governors in states that ignore mask and vaccine mandates think (know?) they have the populace behind them. It is easier to do this because these states don't need additional resources (except hospital beds) to ignore a rule. Places like Florida are doing with mask and vaccine mandates what Washington is doing with marijuana. "It is your rule, you enforce it." Boot and Rally fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:47
|
|
|
Professor Beetus posted:These people absolutely deserve compassion and patience as we attempt to reach them for sure. But you know that people in here frustrated with anti-vaxxers (or you should know) aren't speaking of them when they are complaining about anti-vaxxers. People are gonna vent, and the fact is most of the anti-vax movement is extremely privileged, and extremely white. I'm not a fan of the sweeping generalizations that How are u is making but I also don't assume the worst of their argument. You say potato I say collateral https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/issue-brief/racial-disparities-in-covid-19-impacts-and-vaccinations-for-children/ The vocal anti vaxers, who make up well under 20% of the population, are generally not those impacted by covid. kff posted:Black people have received smaller shares of vaccinations compared to their shares of cases and the total population in more than half of states reporting data. In the remaining reporting states, the share of vaccinations they have received is similar to their shares of cases and the total population. In most reporting states, the share of vaccinations received by Black people is smaller than their share of deaths. For example, in the District of Columbia, Black people have received 44% of vaccinations, while they make up 56% of cases, 71% of deaths, and 46% of the total population But hey d and d needs to pander just like our gvt does. As for boosters they are shown to provide better immune response and will reduce spread. Given the above disparities any reduction of spread is needed, especially when throwing out 15+ mil vaccines and a lack of NPIs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:49
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:yes, still a moron then TBF the same can be said of liberals. They may do a bit more reconnaissance on conservatives voices and themes but they do their own bit of naval gazing (which becomes a point of contention in this thread). Liberals will utilize tactics that, to a lot of the left, seem indistinguishable from conservatives except maybe liberals didn’t say the N or F word. But that is a topic for another thread 
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:51
|
|
|
I’m getting a booster because the doctors I know who are working with COVID cases are telling me to get a booster as soon as I can. A local health clinic is on the low happy to give the boosters to those of us who call in, and I’m scheduled out for next week. I mean look, I’m in pretty good shape. I’m 20 pounds heavier than I want to be, but have started bike at least 40 miles a week in spin class, (peloton app on a cheap bike at home) take 2-5 mile walks a day and eating very healthy to lose that weight and am in my early 30’s. I’m not worried about COVID, but I sure as hell going to do everything I can to not get it. Getting a booster is because by and large the systems we have in place are truly failing and Biden is doing a terrible loving job. Climate change will take everything down sooner rather than later, but COVID sort of was a booster shot of a system break down. A bunch of privileged posters in here will continue to say things are not great but could be a lot worse. And that’s true. But they will say that for the next 20 years until things truly have just collapsed. If we’re really lucky, will probably get 5 to 15 years of wealthier individuals pretending that things are still good and that we can go to brunch before things look really special. Like there’s another classic blonde white chick that’s gone missing from van life, and people on social media are still trying to act like that matters. Who gives a poo poo when we’re at two thousand + a day dying from something because assholes demand to return to normal? Not to mention all the brown and black woman/non binary going missing and nobody gives a poo poo. LionArcher fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 18:58
|
|
|
LionArcher posted:
we're at over 2 thousand a day, 7 day moving average and had a 2700 death day just a couple days ago and a 3500 death day a couple days before that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 19:00
|
|
|
empty whippet box posted:we're at over 2 thousand a day, 7 day moving average and had a 2700 death day just a couple days ago and a 3500 death day a couple days before that. Right. That’s my point and I thought I put two thousand. I’ll go edit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 19:02
|
|
|
empty whippet box posted:we're at over 2 thousand a day, 7 day moving average and had a 2700 death day just a couple days ago and a 3500 death day a couple days before that. Out of interest, where are you seeing this? Worldometers has everything in this wave for the US under 2.5k - I'm interested to see other sources.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 19:21
|
|
|
G1mby posted:Out of interest, where are you seeing this? Worldometers has everything in this wave for the US under 2.5k - I'm interested to see other sources. https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1439622291294466051?s=21 https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1438499684394307593?s=21 https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1439113427021180933?s=21
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 19:36
|
|
|
Gio posted:Thanks - that's very useful
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 19:41
|
|
|
empty whippet box posted:What has [Eric Feigl-Ding] been wrong about? Plenty. To start with, his entire philosophy is that during fast-moving events such as pandemics, being quick with information dissemination can be more important than being 100% accurate. This philosophy has served him extremely well personally, as he has gone from 2k followers to almost 600k within the span of less than two years, which is an incredibly stunning performance that influencers and similar online personalities can only dream of. He has been frequently misleading, if not flat out wrong, from the very beginning. The most notable instance of this happened at the start of his Twitter fame. In January 2020, a paper about the novel coronavirus spreading out of Wuhan was published on MedRxiv. It estimated the R0 of the virus to be a whopping 3.8. Despite the fact that it was pre-print, Feigl-Ding tweeted it out. The tweet has since been deleted (as it has earned him a ton of criticism and notoriety since then), but it read: quote:HOLY MOTHER OF GOD—the new coronavirus is a 3.8!!! How bad is that reproductive R0 value? It is thermonuclear pandemic level bad—never seen an actual virality coefficient outside of Twitter in my entire career. I’m not exaggerating. Then he kept tweeting quotes out of the pre-print paper and concluded that we were "faced with the most virulent virus epidemic the world has ever seen." He gained a TON of followers that week, who kept retweeting him purely on the basis that he was a Harvard epidemiologist (despite the fact that, as noted a few pages back, his specialty is how nutrition can cause diseases such as obesity and diabetes). Meanwhile, scientists who actually do have the relevant specialty (e.g. virology, infectious diseases, etc.) were pointing out glaring errors with the methodology of papers he cites, but you'll note that such tweets have nowhere as wide of a reach. Another notable instance happened couple of weeks later, when a group of scientists out of New Delhi uploaded to BioRxiv their preprint suggesting that the coronavirus was linked to HIV. Feigl-Ding once again tweeted this out and quoted many sections from the study. He did note that it was not peer reviewed yet, but called the findings "very intriguing" and "bold". That tweet thread, too, has since been deleted, but not before it was shared thousands of times across Twitter. And similarly, it was critiqued, but those critiques had a relatively small amount of engagement: https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1223337991168380928 There are many, many other examples where Feigl-Ding has spread misinformation. He doesn't care too much about this outside of extreme cases, where he notices that his tweets are being linked to in online articles where he is criticized — in which case he goes back and deletes those tweets in an attempt to obfuscate his grossly irresponsible behavior. The media as a whole loves him though because he gets them viewers and clicks. He has gone on CNN, where he was identified as "Public Health Expert, Harvard University". He has gone on CGTN, where he was introduced as a "scientist" at Harvard. He was breathlessly quoted and signal-boosted by tons of online media outlets, not to mention various discussion spaces... such as these very forums. The reason for that is simple: his brand of sensationalism and alarmism gets people to engage. It also validates certain pessimistic worldviews. All that is to say: slamming Feigl-Ding tweets in this thread will simply increase the signal-to-noise ratio. And if you see one posted, you're much better off ignoring it completely. Taking a case-by-case approach will not scale, since we have so few actual experts here as it is. edit: fixed paragraph order Slow News Day fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 20:04
|
|
|
Deltas is 6, so to be even more padantic with even more hindsight, he was wrong for not being more alarmist. Genuine question, do you find governments who acted under the assumption of his hysteria (mid February data) are doing better or worse in the pandemic?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 20:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 10:14 |
|
|
You can take a precautionary approach without spreading misinformation. An R0 of 2-3 still justifies swift action if it's spreading and has severe enough outcomes. Using sketchy data to justify harsh actions is super risky, once they're proven to be false your justification is gone. As far as I know no country said "we need to lock down because this has a R0 of nearly 4 and also might be the AIDS of Coronaviruses". If a country did, I would bet that they would have faced challenges maintaining their lockdowns once that was shown to be an exaggeration at best. enki42 fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Sep 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2021 20:27
|
|