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van Zieks hadn't prosecuted for five years before McGilded, I don't think he's really that shackled to Stronghart. We don't even know why he was prosecuting the McGilded case; remember that Ryunosuke defending McGilded was literally a last minute decision. Also if Sholmes suspected Ryunosuke of being the Reaper, he wouldn't have suggested he take up the lawyer spot at the end of the case. As far as the game lets us know, Sholmes didn't really suspect Ryunosuke of actual murder, especially since he'd figured out right away that Kazuma was still 'alive' and the whole thing was an accident. Anything beyond that is speculation. It's been a while since I've played the game, but I think the no foreign killing policy was a rumour that Ryunosuke and co. hear about during 1-3. Natsume was already on the verge of leaving due to hating England, the Reaper rumour and being the suspect in two cases just gave him the push. Again, my memory is a little fuzzy, but I think the rumour actually came about because Jigoku (who was acquitted in a van Zieks case) was the only one who hadn't been killed. And again, Natsume wouldn't even have made any connections with Wilson; remember that to the general public, Wilson had nothing to do with the Professor case, and he wasn't even a Reaper killing, he was a 'tying up loose ends' assassination. The only people who knew about Wilson's connection to Genshin in Japan were Mikotoba and Jigoku. To Natsume, he would just have been a random murder victim in the news. Even then, Mikotoba had no idea Wilson's death was connected to Genshin; only Jigoku and Stronghart knew the extent of the truth, even Sholmes could only speculate via correspondence with Mikotoba. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Sep 18, 2021 |
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Sep 18, 2021 15:47
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ApplesandOranges posted:van Zieks hadn't prosecuted for five years before McGilded, I don't think he's really that shackled to Stronghart. We don't even know why he was prosecuting the McGilded case; remember that Ryunosuke defending McGilded was literally a last minute decision. Also if Sholmes suspected Ryunosuke of being the Reaper, he wouldn't have suggested he take up the lawyer spot at the end of the case. As far as the game lets us know, Sholmes didn't really suspect Ryunosuke of actual murder, especially since he'd figured out right away that Kazuma was still 'alive' and the whole thing was an accident. Anything beyond that is speculation. It's true that we do not know exactly what prompted Zieks to come out of retirement. It seems pretty likely that Stronghart did have something to do with it though, given the exact contents of the secrets McGilded was peddling. It would be a pretty big coincidence otherwise. Without Ryunosuke, McGilded would have no representation due to the fear of the Reaper. When I said Sholmes suspected Ryunosuke in 1-2, I meant at the start of the case, as he came out of the wardrobe. Obviously he no longer suspected him after the culprit was discovered. I don't recall what you say about Jigoku. I don't think it would really even make any sense since everything about the professor case is Closed Court stuff. No one amongst the general public knows that the professor was (supposedly) Japanese and thus no one would know that one of the professor's colleagues got in a contempt of court charge during that trial. I don't think the point that Jigoku was a Zieks defendant was even raised until 2-5. I don't know why you are arguing about Natsume making a connection with Wilson? My theory is entirely about what Sholmes might have known or suspected at the very start of the game. We are told in 2-5 that Sholmes had a copy of the four names - Wilson, Asogi, Gregson and Shinn, assumed they were to be killed, and got on the boat sometimes before it arrived in Hong Kong from Japan to stop this. It seems highly likely that Sholmes made the connection - especially since we also know he is in contact with Mikotoba (he sent him Iris's manuscript). Else you would have to explain why Sholmes would go from "these four names were sent" to "K Asogi will die if he arrives in Britain". I'd also argue that Sholmes and Mikotoba at least strongly suspected the true identity of the Professor, since they went to the Baskerville home and found the Hound. Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Sep 18, 2021 |
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Sep 18, 2021 17:31
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Fangz posted:My theory is entirely about what Sholmes might have known or suspected at the very start of the game. We are told in 2-5 that Sholmes had a copy of the four names - Wilson, Asogi, Gregson and Shinn, assumed they were to be killed, and got on the boat sometimes before it arrived in Hong Kong from Japan to stop this. It seems highly likely that Sholmes made the connection - especially since we also know he is in contact with Mikotoba (he sent him Iris's manuscript). Else you would have to explain why Sholmes would go from "these four names were sent" to "K Asogi will die if he arrives in Britain". That part is at least spelled out in game, no arguments. The main argument against is Sholmes assuming that Ryunosuke is the Reaper, when it's pretty much spelt out in-game that Sholmes first thinks Ryunosuke is the Russian revolutionary. There's nothing that suggests Sholmes thought Ryunosuke was the Reaper, especially since he figured out almost immediately that Kazuma was alive and the whole thing was an accident, which would make Ryu a pretty terrible assassin. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Sep 19, 2021 |
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Sep 18, 2021 18:10
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ApplesandOranges posted:That part is at least spelled out in game, no arguments. The main argument against is Sholmes assuming that Ryunosuke is the Reaper, when it's pretty much spelt out in-game that Sholmes first thinks Ryunosuke is the Russian revolutionary. There's nothing that suggests Sholmes thought Ryunosuke was the Reaper, especially since he figured out almost immediately that Kazuma was alive and the whole thing was an accident, which would make Ryu a pretty terrible assassin. Please fix the spoiler tag in your quote?
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Sep 18, 2021 18:23
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It's clear that Van Zieks knew the true nature of McGilded and wouldn't lose sleep if the Reaper curse kicked in. Moreover, it seems McGilded has pulled similar stunts like this before. Surely Van Zieks would like to deliver real justice in the courtroom, but if he was declared not guilty, well, let the curse clean it up. In this case it wasn't even the "curse" that led to McGilded's demise! Not a coincidence that Van Zieks would find it appropriate to step in here; no, the coincidence was him being matched up against a Japanese lawyer who he took an interest in.
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Sep 18, 2021 18:24
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ApplesandOranges posted:That part is at least spelled out in game, no arguments. The main argument against is Sholmes assuming that Ryunosuke is the Reaper, when it's pretty much spelt out in-game that Sholmes first thinks Ryunosuke is the Russian revolutionary. There's nothing that suggests Sholmes thought Ryunosuke was the Reaper, especially since he figured out almost immediately that Kazuma was alive and the whole thing was an accident, which would make Ryu a pretty terrible assassin. Please fix the spoiler tags Sholmes lies a lot and probably knows a lot more than he lets on. The fact that he accused Ryunosuke of being the revolutionary does not mean that he actually suspects him of that. If you look at the way Sholmes' deductions go, it is usually a mix of truths and untruths, designed to provoke the subject into giving something away through their reaction. What I am suggesting is that this case is no different - Sholmes is looking for the big cartoon exclamation mark to appear over Ryunosuke's head when he called him an assassin with 16 victims. At the point where Sholmes had Ryunosuke arrested he had not investigated the second room yet and it was not clear if Kazuma would survive or not. If you are following a possible victim of the Reaper and this victim is attacked by someone present during the death of another possible victim of the Reaper (acquitted in a closed secret court by Jigoku, no less), the suspicion that this person is involved in the incident is extremely obvious. A lot of Sholmes' actions make more sense or are a lot less of a coincidence if he suspects the general outline of case 2-5 from the very start. One would not otherwise expect him to leave his ten year old step daughter at home for over three months for any random person he never met. Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Sep 18, 2021 |
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Sep 18, 2021 19:32
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Some open questions after the entire game is over What exactly did Sholmes and Mikotoba know or suspect prior to 1-1? Was it indeed a coincidence that he was present, with that chocolate bar, when Gina went to collect the disk in 1-5? What about ordering all the music boxes to play the disk? Why exactly did Sholmes, who had spent the day as a temporary waxwork, warn Ryunosuke that the stolen waxwork relates to case 2-3? Is there a particular reason why Sholmes pressed Gregson to take Gina under his wing? Was Gregson a suspect at that time? Why did van Zieks have a sudden breakthrough linking Gregson to the Reaper?
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Sep 18, 2021 19:57
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One thing I can recommend w/r/t case 1-2, is to have a look at the Escapades when you're deep enough to start pondering Sholmes' actions. He knew all along that Ryunosuke and Kazuma were in cahoots on the stowaway plan. His accusation of being a Russian revolutionary are either him getting his wires crossed by the Cyrillic message or him just fuckin with you, depending on how much of a mastermind you read him as.Fangz posted:Some open questions after the entire game is over Some thoughts on these three: 1) They suspected the identity of the Professor, for sure, but I sincerely doubt they had gotten anywhere in particular with the identity of the Reaper. Sholmes unravels the whole assassin exchange program when he learns that Jezaille Brett killed John Wilson and spends the rest of the game hustling to get everything in place. I genuinely doubt he had any suspicion of Kazuma's involvement as anything but a potential victim before then; he has no reason to lie at this point. 2) He probably saw her potential and Gregson was both someone he could lean on and someone with the authority to look out for her. I also think he considers it reparations for ratfucking her in 1-5, but the game doesn't want to bring that up once the case is over. 3) He makes a point of mentioning he was given permission to search Gregson's office, and there's really only one person who could have given that permission. I assume van Zieks had suspected him for some time, but wasn't going to act on it without concrete proof, and Stronghart had decided to permit him to gather said proof right as all his other game pieces were slotting into place.
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Sep 18, 2021 20:42
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G2-3 late trial HES USING A SWORD ÀAAAAAAÃAAAAAH HOW HOW HOW????? My heart was pounding when I accused Courtney Sithe MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 02:59
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MorningMoon posted:G2-3 late trial HES USING A SWORD ÀAAAAAAÃAAAAAH HOW HOW HOW????? The best third chapter in the entire series, hands down.
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Sep 20, 2021 05:00
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TheLoser posted:The best third chapter in the entire series, hands down. To be fair, there's... really not a lot of competition. What is it with AA games and the third case being okay to bad?
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Sep 20, 2021 07:19
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It tends to be the least important case. Cases 2 introduce the main prosecutor and all the main plot hooks, which then get resolved in the last case. In games with 5 cases, cases 4 usually serve as a direct lead-in chapter. All of these cases get several passes to make sure all these steps link cohesively together. DLC cases (counting case 1-5) are presumably written after the rest of the game is wrapped up, and so have the entire staff on hand. Cases 3 are the most disconnected from the main plot, at most containing the prosecutor’s face turn if they have one. They’re definitely the lowest priority. Some games deviate slightly from this structure, but none to the extent that GAA does.
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Sep 20, 2021 07:32
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some people seem to confuse "least important to the Main Plot" with "bad" i've never subscribed to this case 3s suck theory people are just traumatised by the circus and the concert video (you know the one (maybe we should play it again?))
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Sep 20, 2021 08:09
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I try my best to not remember Aristotle Means
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Sep 20, 2021 08:43
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If anyone thinks original trilogy 1-3 sucks, they're wrong  I kinda like 3-3 too, but Furio Tigre does a lot to carry it in places. AAI2-3 is just straight up amazing.
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Sep 20, 2021 09:21
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Nyoro posted:I try my best to not remember Aristotle Means (i may be athena biased but my mind will not be changed)
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Sep 20, 2021 09:34
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I'm not really sure where the concept of the "case 3 curse" came from as well. Like some of the worst cases in the series were usually slotted in there, but outside of the games where the cases didn't have strong interconnectivity, it's not like slotting those in a different place would have made them better. Otherwise they're inoffensive or really great.
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Sep 20, 2021 09:34
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I mean, yes gently caress that circus, but 1-3 had the steel samurai and OG Oldbag and I want nobody saying bad things* about Colgate Zeus in my presence. *man's a scumbag but man was it satisfying to take him down. It's just that the circus and the video drag the average underground, but that's two massive outliers. It's like saying there's a last case villain curse because of Diplomatic Immunity getting tag teamed by flanderized Oldbag and Larry.
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Sep 20, 2021 10:44
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I think it's mostly the taint from 2-3 as well. 1-3 drags somewhat as well plus you have to deal with Sal Manella. 3-3 is the worst case in 3 because every other case in 3 is really god drat strong and it ends up looking weak by comparison. 4-3 is apparently bad but I remember nothing about it. Then you start getting further into the series and no, case 3's are good now. 5-3 is good, probably my favorite case in the game (but it is a weak game), I don't remember 6-3, PL vs AA had a pretty good case 3 imo and for GAA GAA 1-3 is an incredibly good case and 2-3 is well, I guess it's okay. I don't know whether I'd pick 2-2 or 2-3 as the worst case in GAA2.
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Sep 20, 2021 11:34
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WHOA really burying the lede there with "GAA 2-3... i guess it's ok" i didn't know it was possible to be so wrong
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Sep 20, 2021 11:36
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2-2 is the best case in both GAA games
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Sep 20, 2021 12:05
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GAA 2-3 has the best character in the game, a man who got so scared by a corpse crawling out a grave he turned into a robot, how can it be just "ok"?
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Sep 20, 2021 12:22
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a weird thing about 1-3 is that it's the only case in the series with the "classic" lineup of Phoenix as attorney, Maya as assistant and Edgeworth as prosecution which is kind of neat
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Sep 20, 2021 14:51
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Lotus Aura posted:If anyone thinks original trilogy 1-3 sucks, they're wrong Eh, 3-3 doesn't really work so well for me. It has no connection at all to... just about any other case and mostly just serves as 'more Godot'. At least 3-2 brought back a character from the previous game. Even as a standalone case it's not really fun? I'm fine with 1-3 though. Also yes 4-3 wouldn't be nearly so bad if you didn't have to watch the video like fifty times, but also it's way too convoluted without any real meaning to dragging it out.
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Sep 20, 2021 14:56
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Cases don't need to be "connected" to be good. 3-2 and 3-3 are the best cases in that game.
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Sep 20, 2021 14:58
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3-3 is a really good case.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:00
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I kind of hate 3-3 most of the time, especially for the first day. Armstrong is just... well, he actually beats out Dr. Hotti for character I feel most uncomfortable when they're talking/on screen, though for entirely different reasons. (Viola and Tigre are great, though, and definitely do a lot to redeem the case.) 1-3, 5-3, and 6-3 are fine to great. Both GAA Case 3s are absolutely fantastic. GAA2-3 is probably my favorite case in any Ace Attorney game.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:02
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2-3 and 4-3 are both bottom tier cases, and I'm personally not a fan of 5-3 or 6-3, either. That's not a good sampling, even when 1-3 is good and 3-3 is fantastic, and I wouldn't count either third GAA case as a case 3.ApplesandOranges posted:Eh, 3-3 [..] mostly just serves as 'more Godot'. I agree, it rules.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:08
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TheLoser posted:The best third chapter in the entire series, hands down. I'm almost done and this could easily be a Case 5 in most other AA games. Holy poo poo. As I break down Drebber I just remembered that I haven't seen Ziek's buddy in hours lol god, what an amazing case, what thrilling revelations, and somehow there's still two cases?? However, I keep nervously looking at the clock lol  Why does Kazuma have to be so pretty?? and wearing such an amazing white suit?! dual-swords... that rad sleeve design... god, he's so loving pretty i can't i want him and then the japanese judge's suit and gloves!!! These men are too pretty i can't focus MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Sep 20, 2021 |
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Sep 20, 2021 16:24
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Regy Rusty posted:2-2 is the worst case in both GAA games
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Sep 20, 2021 20:09
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Amppelix posted:WHOA really burying the lede there with "GAA 2-3... i guess it's ok" Hyper Crab Tank posted:GAA 2-3 has the best character in the game, a man who got so scared by a corpse crawling out a grave he turned into a robot, how can it be just "ok"? Honestly GAA 2-3 stuck with me the most out of the entire sub series, just total Ace Attorney Gold from beginning to end.
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Sep 21, 2021 01:58
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3-3 actually does have a lot of foreshadowing about Godot, but it's stuff you wouldn't pick up on a first playthrough.
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Sep 21, 2021 04:30
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GAA 2-3 I don't know how I forgot Drebber. Never mind, 2-3 owned. I was just thinking of Harebrayne, I really did not like him.
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Sep 21, 2021 06:23
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You know, with the recurring and/or important jurors I was expecting (2-3?) corn juror to be important somehow but she just kinda... existed. To shuck corn and to aw shucks.
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Sep 21, 2021 06:52
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G2-4 I love that Kazuma's biceps are so thicc they clip into his chest
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Sep 21, 2021 15:00
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fractalairduct posted:3-3 actually does have a lot of foreshadowing about Godot, but it's stuff you wouldn't pick up on a first playthrough. I love Godot's utter insistence that the bloodstain doesn't exist, even though he's fully aware of his disability on that front Nonsense! It's clean as a whistle! e: Omobono posted:I mean, yes gently caress that circus, but 1-3 had the steel samurai and OG Oldbag and I want nobody saying bad things* about Colgate Zeus in my presence. You're forgetting about the insanely bullshit testimony in 1-3 where the solution is "just try random crap until it arbitrarily stops" Yinlock fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 23:06
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G2-5 We just tapdanced our way to that bullethole! Jigoku how could you?!
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Sep 22, 2021 02:54
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Yinlock posted:I love Godot's utter insistence that the bloodstain doesn't exist, even though he's fully aware of his disability on that front It's not just that, some of his lines about the poisoned coffee are pretty telling once you know about what happened to Diego.
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Sep 22, 2021 05:17
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As I approach the end of G2-5, which I'm guessing has like 2 hours left, I must say This is the best Kamen Rider show i've ever seen. just kinda basking in the afterglow. Together, these two games are the peak of the series. Ever since T&T, I've felt that the series has been missing something in gameplay escalation and continuity, GAAC delivers it in spades. My deepest wish for the series is that the AA7 that was leaked a year ago ends up being the end of Phoenix Wright (and frankly mostly be an Athena game) and for the series to then do wholly different settings every two or three games. Or, hell, dare I imagine, gargantuan games with 10 cases or more (obvs with like case #6 in lieu of a tutorial, just being about the same as 6-4, to catch your breath) I really, really want a sci-fi game. MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 16:29
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fractalairduct posted:It's not just that, some of his lines about the poisoned coffee are pretty telling once you know about what happened to Diego. True, I just found that moment in particular really funny for some reason. I think the reason I ended up liking Godot despite his somewhat Problematic nature is that he's kind of a dumbass
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Sep 22, 2021 21:32
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