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FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually
Tired: Lottery pool with your coworkers

Wired: Tontine with your coworkers :getin:

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honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009

SettingSun posted:

Not even an ironclad contract signed collectively between the participants under the gaze of a lawyer will shield from litigation, but it will help.

Sirotan posted:

If you are in a lottery pool and haven't already gotten all members to sign contracts regulating how the pool is managed you are going to be in for a bad time once Judith in accounting says that actually the $378mil winning ticket is one she bought for herself while also buying tickets for the group.

https://www.twincities.com/2013/02/22/ind-hair-stylists-fight-over-9-5m-lottery-ticket/

If we ever win (lol) I expect lawsuits and hatred. Followed quickly by having to move out of state.

drk
Jan 16, 2005

FMguru posted:

Wired: Tontine with your coworkers :getin:

That's when you need to get reeeealll suspicious about the person who starts coming in earlier to make the morning coffee for the office

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

FMguru posted:

Tired: Lottery pool with your coworkers

Wired: Tontine with your coworkers :getin:

Inspired: A tournament to the death, winner takes all. Whether they know they're in it or not :murder:

mrmcd
Feb 22, 2003

Pictured: The only good cop (a fictional one).

https://twitter.com/yeehawllywood/status/1440094116524670979

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 10, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.


Well I just bought some lottery tickets so if I don't post after Friday it's because I got killed by a relative.

Assuming I survive though, I'll buy some terrible avatars with my new found riches.

Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

Powerful Two-Hander posted:

Well I just bought some lottery tickets so if I don't post after Friday it's because I got killed by a relative.

Assuming I survive though, I'll buy some terrible avatars with my new found riches.

Have you decided on a color for your Dodge Durango?

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Motronic posted:

Not sure there is a state where it isn't because otherwise this it would be easily used as a dodge from any creditors.
Plus legal name changes take months to do, cost money to do(varies by state but in IL it'll run you at least a couple hundred dollars - not a problem after you get lotto winnings but may be a problem before), and often you have to actually put a notice in a newspaper(no, really. and at least in Illinois it basically includes all the info needed to doxx you - full name before/after, address, email) for several weeks as well. It's also treated as an actual court thing, and you can see it on the daily court dockets(and presumably at least the names involved in the 'court case' are in public records somewhere). The assumption is that 99% of people have no desire or reason to change their name except for marriage, so the process for changing it outside of that is super slow and a huge pain in the rear end. And it's extremely public record exactly because they don't want people dodging creditors that way.

When you finally get your hearing the judge asks you if you're trying to avoid debts/parole restrictions/etc, but nothing about if you're trying to anonymize yourself for lottery winnings. :v:

Fame Douglas posted:

lmao, imagine getting this greedy about a small share of $500
There's no amount of money that's too small for people to turn into greed elementals over. See also: Inheritance disputes.

obi_ant
Apr 8, 2005

Krispy Wafer posted:

but some people are hopelessly addicted to the idea of property.


I've had people become *very* agitated and almost hostile when I told them I didn't think investing in property or buying a house was the right financial move for me. I told him my wife and I have thought about buying a house but it didn't make sense for us (Bay Area), if not fiscally impossible. Their suggestion was to start small and save. Coincidentally he forgot to mention that him and his wife combined make 4x what my wife and I make combined.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Sounds like a foal and his money are soon parted.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



obi_ant posted:

I've had people become *very* agitated and almost hostile when I told them I didn't think investing in property or buying a house was the right financial move for me. I told him my wife and I have thought about buying a house but it didn't make sense for us (Bay Area), if not fiscally impossible. Their suggestion was to start small and save. Coincidentally he forgot to mention that him and his wife combined make 4x what my wife and I make combined.

Bay Area housing market is this, except it's now 1989 and I'm starting to wonder when disco is gonna finally die:



Places over in Berkeley are listing for $1.2m and selling for $1.8+. We're talking modest 3 bed, 1 bath places with knob-and-tube wiring still in place.

olylifter
Sep 13, 2007

I'm bad with money and you have an avatar!

Proposition Castle posted:

That reddit lottery post is just a copy/paste of the old rotten.com library article about lottery winners. Great collection of stuff if you can still find it. I don't think the wayback link I used to have still works.

https://www.gwern.net/docs/rotten.com/library/index.html

Rotten library was great

Weatherman
Jul 30, 2003

WARBLEKLONK

Powerful Two-Hander posted:

Well I just bought some lottery tickets so if I don't post after Friday it's because I got killed by a relative.

Assuming I survive though, I'll buy some terrible avatars with my new found riches.

Maybe you'll finally be able to change your name to Tooter Skeleton!

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 10, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.


Weatherman posted:

Maybe you'll finally be able to change your name to Tooter Skeleton!

Oh great, now if I ever actually did it everyone's gonna think I won the lottery!!!

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003



obi_ant posted:

I've had people become *very* agitated and almost hostile when I told them I didn't think investing in property or buying a house was the right financial move for me. I told him my wife and I have thought about buying a house but it didn't make sense for us (Bay Area), if not fiscally impossible. Their suggestion was to start small and save. Coincidentally he forgot to mention that him and his wife combined make 4x what my wife and I make combined.

Mortgages in Switzerland are very different than anywhere else I've lived because there's a wealth tax here and so actually owning a huge asset would be a net negative. The solution is that you will eventually own 33% of the object and the bank will give you a 10 year mortgage on the other 67% and you just pay the interest (there's a separate mortgage to get you from the deposit to 33%). There are extremely strict rules about the minimum deposit (20%) and the ratio of earnings to loan repayment amounts. IMHO, that last bit is to keep riff-raff like lottery winners from being able to buy a chalet in Davos or something because sure they could technically buy it outright in cash but their income isn't enough to really afford it.

All of that to tell you about this American boomer who's in a club with me and just went off one night about how I'm throwing my money away on rent, you've got to buy a house etc, etc, etc... Later that same night he told me how he couldn't retire because the mortgage for the farm and house he'd inherited from his in-laws was too expensive for his retirement income! Guess if, as an independent contractor, he had done any retirement investing or planning at all. So he had to start his own English school in his house and get enough students in his small rear end village to make enough money to convince the bank that he could get a loan for the house he had been living in for 15 years.

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011

Running no point.

greazeball posted:

Mortgages in Switzerland are very different than anywhere else I've lived because there's a wealth tax here and so actually owning a huge asset would be a net negative. The solution is that you will eventually own 33% of the object and the bank will give you a 10 year mortgage on the other 67% and you just pay the interest (there's a separate mortgage to get you from the deposit to 33%). There are extremely strict rules about the minimum deposit (20%) and the ratio of earnings to loan repayment amounts. IMHO, that last bit is to keep riff-raff like lottery winners from being able to buy a chalet in Davos or something because sure they could technically buy it outright in cash but their income isn't enough to really afford it.

All of that to tell you about this American boomer who's in a club with me and just went off one night about how I'm throwing my money away on rent, you've got to buy a house etc, etc, etc... Later that same night he told me how he couldn't retire because the mortgage for the farm and house he'd inherited from his in-laws was too expensive for his retirement income! Guess if, as an independent contractor, he had done any retirement investing or planning at all. So he had to start his own English school in his house and get enough students in his small rear end village to make enough money to convince the bank that he could get a loan for the house he had been living in for 15 years.

a) lol

b) The extra fun part is that Swiss mortgages are incredibly low interest and mortgage repayments are tax-deductible. Capital investment aside, my chalet is unbelievably cheap to own.

:guillotine:

Orange DeviI
Nov 9, 2011

by Hand Knit
Mortgages in the Netherlands are great tax-wise, because our wealth-tax specifically exempts your primary (first/most expensive) residence. So you basically hide a big part of your net worth from the tax man, and it's designed that way! The interest on your mortgage is also tax-deductible, which is completely stupid but we did it anyway!

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

This must be a recent(-ish?) thing health insurance companies are doing whenever the codes come back indicating an injury that someone could be liable for.

Our daughter fell off her bike a few months ago and got a mild concussion, so we had an ER visit. 2 weeks ago we got a survey from our insurance company digging for info to see if it's possible we could sue the poo poo out of someone for it.

lmao just imagining one day this happens on our own property and our health insurance sues our homeowners insurance. I say lmao, but I'm not actually laughing because I feel like the day is coming where your insurance company forces you to sue yourself so that your OTHER insurance foots the bill...

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011

by the sex ghost

please knock Mom! posted:

Mortgages in the Netherlands are great tax-wise, because our wealth-tax specifically exempts your primary (first/most expensive) residence. So you basically hide a big part of your net worth from the tax man, and it's designed that way! The interest on your mortgage is also tax-deductible, which is completely stupid but we did it anyway!

I can see why countries would have this kind of tax deduction, and it kind of makes sense. Policies like this do inflate the cost of housing though, making it a little counter-productive.

For it to be more fair, maybe they could cap the exemption amount to the median cost home in the country. Of course, then you would get the weeping and gnashing of teeth from the people who live in the expensive big cities.

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi

DaveSauce posted:

This must be a recent(-ish?) thing health insurance companies are doing whenever the codes come back indicating an injury that someone could be liable for.

Our daughter fell off her bike a few months ago and got a mild concussion, so we had an ER visit. 2 weeks ago we got a survey from our insurance company digging for info to see if it's possible we could sue the poo poo out of someone for it.

lmao just imagining one day this happens on our own property and our health insurance sues our homeowners insurance. I say lmao, but I'm not actually laughing because I feel like the day is coming where your insurance company forces you to sue yourself so that your OTHER insurance foots the bill...

Didn’t this already happen with some aunt and her nephew or something?

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Krispy Wafer posted:

My brother is just sold his house and is now desperately trying to find another home to buy even though he's unemployed. Last week he's detailing his grand plan to buy a cheap home, fix it up, rent it out, buy another home, and become a land baron or some poo poo. And no, he has no way to pay for this except for a decent chunk of equity he's slowly exhausting. He really needs to just rent for a few years, but some people are hopelessly addicted to the idea of property.

When he eventually comes to me for money I'll have to get all his Local H merch appraised as collateral.

find him a wife

so she can split his Local H merch on the floor of a divorce court

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

Residency Evil posted:

Didn’t this already happen with some aunt and her nephew or something?

More or less. Her nephew greeted her too hard and she fell and broke her wrist. A quirk in local law meant to get a payout she HAD to sue the person liable despite how nonsensical that is. The media spun this in the worst way.

Proposition Castle
Aug 9, 2004
Witty message goes here.

DaveSauce posted:

This must be a recent(-ish?) thing health insurance companies are doing whenever the codes come back indicating an injury that someone could be liable for.

Our daughter fell off her bike a few months ago and got a mild concussion, so we had an ER visit. 2 weeks ago we got a survey from our insurance company digging for info to see if it's possible we could sue the poo poo out of someone for it.

lmao just imagining one day this happens on our own property and our health insurance sues our homeowners insurance. I say lmao, but I'm not actually laughing because I feel like the day is coming where your insurance company forces you to sue yourself so that your OTHER insurance foots the bill...

This is always fun between Medicare parts B and D. B covers some vaccines but not all. D covers a little of the what's left but gently caress preventative care in this country, make 'em pay. It gets even worse when it comes to anti-rejection drugs after transplants. If Medicare pays for the transplant all the drugs related to it have to go through part B which is a decent amount of extra paperwork because hey, potentially wasting an organ isn't a big deal. Anti-nausea drugs for chemo patients are similar. As much as I support a single payer system this split coverage bullshit has got to go. Also, obligatory gently caress Humana, CVS/Caremark, and Optim.

CellBlock
Oct 6, 2005

It just don't stop.



Residency Evil posted:

Didn’t this already happen with some aunt and her nephew or something?

I believe I also recall a case where a woman was at fault in a car accident where her husband died, and his estate, executed by her, sued her for negligence, and so she was both the plaintiff and defendant.

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


CellBlock posted:

I believe I also recall a case where a woman was at fault in a car accident where her husband died, and his estate, executed by her, sued her for negligence, and so she was both the plaintiff and defendant.

When I was a real estate attorney during the foreclosure crisis I was representing a property owner in a massive easement dispute affecting ~80 houses. As the crisis continued more and more of the parties were foreclosed on and we ended up with a couple banks owning properties on both the plaintiff and defendant sides.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
I'm pretty sure I witnessed a literal Farside or Dilbert comic come to life at work today.

- The end of the fiscal year is coming up.
- A bunch of people have left or transferred, so there are a lot of open positions.
- There have been a few incidents where someone called out sick and because the amount of staff is low, it has caused problems.
- Some of those people are new hires and still on their probationary period.

My boss wants to dump the people who are "taking advantage" of Covid and calling out sick too often/when not really sick while they are still on their probationary period. She has authorized overtime for certain admin/clerical positions to help HR do an audit and review of all the leave slips for the last year before the end of the fiscal year. They are going to us those as part of the annual review and let people who have been egregious with their sick leave in their first year go.

One of the criteria they are using is to flag everyone who used more than 33% of their sick days on a Monday or Friday. They are paying people 1.5x base salary for two weeks to make sure they get this analysis finished before the end of the fiscal year.

I'm 50/50 on whether she already knows what the outcome will be and wants to just use it as an excuse to get rid of mediocre, but not obviously terrible new hires, and doesn't think anyone will ask the obvious question vs. she thinks this is a good home-brew algorithm.

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost
But Mondays and Fridays are exactly 40% of the workdays...

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

Nocheez posted:

But Mondays and Fridays are exactly 40% of the workdays...

That's why I'm leaning towards this being an excuse find some kind of low performance measure for people who are under-performing, but not slam dunk cases to get rid of, and the overtime is just the "cost of doing business."

And she's hoping that if they confront anyone about it that those people won't do the math or will feel like they've been caught if they ever did take a sick day when they weren't really sick on a Monday or Friday.

The HR peeps are checking social media too and already caught someone having a "dirty 30 vacation" while they were supposed to be quarantined with covid.

So, maybe they do know what they're doing. I could legitimately see them thinking that people should be actively avoiding calling out on Monday or Friday and should have as close to 0% as possible.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Sep 22, 2021

Highbrow Slick
Jul 1, 2007

it is a fool who stays alive - but such fools are we.
That is 100% a dilbert strip nearly beat for beat

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

quote:

Considering not putting any more money into my 401k

I currently work a 9-5 at a company that has an insane 401k match. I have been maxing this out the last 3 years at this company. My current plan is to save as much money as possible over the next 8 months so that I can quit an live simply for a while. I need a break from this 9-5 life. I could save hundreds more dollars per paycheck by stopping my contributions to my 401k.

Lately I am feeling less and less confident that a 401k will ever be worth anything anyway. I wont be able to pull from it penalty-free until 2050 :/ And even if civilization is still around then, I have no hope that our current stock market system will be worth anything lol

Curious if anyone else has struggled with this? Curious other peoples thoughts

quote:

I quit a long time ago. I took the money (even with penalties) and I invested in land.

quote:

That was how I got the down payment on my house and car. Withdrawing your 401k is an investment you can use now.

quote:

quote:

And not every investment recovers because the market does, you could have invested in Enron, Lehman Bros, Pets.com, or other companies that folded in market debacles. And in prior market crashes, economic growth was still plausible. How is the stock market going to recover when oil prices are going through the roof, pandemics are shutting down whole economies, entire crops are failing and the mood of the people is trending towards "doomed"?

Seriously, "humanity is hosed, but the Stock Market is forever" is how we got hosed in the first place.

The stock market isn't coming back from this one. The smart money knows this. Bitcoin, force projection (firearms, martial arts training, exercise equipment, knives and longblades), gasoline and petroleum, water, and food are the only investments with a possibility of return today.

quote:

quote:

That's what index funds are for.

The S&P 500 is a sure bet because if somehow the top 500 companies in the country are worthless than were in hellhole landscape where money is worthless anyway.

Except instead of investing, he could by useful/barterable goods or land. Money isn't the only way to convey value.

quote:

At some point, in the next 1-30 years, the stock market and the dollar is going down for the count. Very soon, our economy will have to shrink, because we can't keep growing and preserve our civilization.

Investing in stonks puts you in team "gently caress The World". Even if common sense doesn't win out, diminishing energy returns and constant disaster and shortages are already here. You're telling this guy to buy at the absolute high and not worry that even mainstream economists are pointing out a massive stock bubble blown by the government printing up $15+ trillion dollars in the last few years.

"STOCKS GO BRRRRRRR"

Give me a break. Don't look at historical trends when we are already outside of any sane precedent.

quote:

The risk you run is that the system DOESN'T collapse in our lifetimes. You must plan for both futures, and that's the biggest "gently caress you" to our generation.

I earn a nice living at my job, while my money works for me in the market. Two forms of income occurring simultaneously. I'm preparing for a nice retirement if things don't collapse.

I also have a gun safe full of thousands of rounds of ammunition if things collapse. If collapse occurs, then money won't matter anyway. I continue to prepare for two very different possible future states.

quote:

Recover means that it suffers. Do you not realize this? If the stock market "always recovers" that means it will always crash and you will always get out less than you put in.

quote:

Most assets lose exponentially more value than cash in the face of high inflation. If inflation shot to ten percent the results would be the stock market getting cut in half, for instance.

So yeah, if you knew that high inflation was coming you'd do better with cash.

https://twitter.com/michael_saylor/status/1435618793036959748
https://twitter.com/nikunjmodi89/status/1435649031909396480

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...
Update the circles

People who don’t know anything about money/economics

People who don’t know anything about energy

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

DaveSauce posted:

This must be a recent(-ish?) thing health insurance companies are doing whenever the codes come back indicating an injury that someone could be liable for.

Our daughter fell off her bike a few months ago and got a mild concussion, so we had an ER visit. 2 weeks ago we got a survey from our insurance company digging for info to see if it's possible we could sue the poo poo out of someone for it.

lmao just imagining one day this happens on our own property and our health insurance sues our homeowners insurance. I say lmao, but I'm not actually laughing because I feel like the day is coming where your insurance company forces you to sue yourself so that your OTHER insurance foots the bill...

I got one of these loving things for a revision to a surgery I had 3 years ago, I just thought it was the Tricare contractor being cheap. It was really fun and not stressful at all considering it was a $33k+ surgery and they threatened to deny the claim outright if they didn't get my answer in 35 days from the date of the letter...that took 14 days to get to me because USPS is wrecked.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Bitcoin, water, martial arts: While you were “investing,” I studied THE BLADE

doingitwrong fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Sep 23, 2021

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom vroom, BEEP BEEP!
Nap Ghost

As someone with even a basic grasp of physics and thermodynamics this infuriates me

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi

doingitwrong posted:

Bitcoin, water, martial arts: While you were “investing,” I studied THE BLADE

:hmmyes:

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


doingitwrong posted:

Bitcoin, water, martial arts: While you were “investing,” I studied THE BLADE

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.
I think the funniest part is that they've convinced themselves that buying land would be meaningful in the event of total societal collapse.

Because even though government and the economy have completely collapsed, this piece of paper from the before-times means you and your well-armed gang are going to have to find shelter elsewhere!

jjack229
Feb 14, 2008
Articulate your needs. I'm here to listen.

DarkHorse posted:

As someone with even a basic grasp of physics and thermodynamics this infuriates me

As a power systems engineer, I am completely baffled by how they think energy and electricity work. Also infuriated that they are wasting large amounts of energy on something as useless as this.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

quote:

Most assets lose exponentially more value than cash in the face of high inflation. If inflation shot to ten percent the results would be the stock market getting cut in half, for instance.

So yeah, if you knew that high inflation was coming you'd do better with cash.

I . . . . what?

You heard it here, folks. The correct hedge to hyperinflation is holding cash, not going out and buying a car radio book apple or whatever your wheelbarrow full of Reichsmarks of Zimbabwean dollars will get you this hour.

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Atticus_1354
Dec 10, 2006

barkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbark

DarkHorse posted:

As someone with even a basic grasp of physics and thermodynamics this infuriates me

Why wouldn't you be on board with frictionless energy. Just think how efficient our systems would be.

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