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Perpetual emotion machine.
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Sep 21, 2021 23:41
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OwlFancier posted:Perpetual emotion machine. This is too good not to steal
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Sep 22, 2021 17:05
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If there's one thing the Internet has taught me, it's that "it takes two to make an argument" is complete nonsense. There are plenty of people who can rant at a strawman/voice in their head/empty chair from now until kingdom come without missing a breath.
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Sep 23, 2021 01:44
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nonathlon posted:Someone noted this upthread and I think there's a lot of truth to it. I've known people that just always seemed to be finding things wrong, finding things to be angry about, people at work are plotting against them, why are you worrying about X you should be worrying about Y, you can't tell me what to do ... They're just exhausting to be around and you can't talk them out of it, but you also can't talk them into any action ... because then they would have nothing to be angry about. Mooseontheloose posted:The thing is there is a kernel of truth in that in that personal growth or societal growth or business growth, whatever your growth can't occur without conflict and honest disagreement and reflection. I think it's along the lines of them thinking that if anyone gets offended, they must have struck a nerve/hit on some sort of truth. Like, "if I'm so wrong, why are you getting so upset, huh?" sort of thing. People taking offense or being rubbed wrong validates them somehow. Does that make sense? E: ALso, to contribute, The In Laws: my former mother in law opined that Obama was not born in the United States and was "probably a terrorist". My father in law sad that "democrats hate it when people make money", said the 2008 crash was "entirely the fault of democrats" and his home page was Drudge. My brother in law, who my ex wife begged me not to engage, was actually the most reasonable, funny and well informed of the bunch. We got along great and at least had a mutual respect each other's information, sense of humor and intellect. He also thought his parents were idiots. Thanksgiving and Christmas were a bit of a minefield. Where we eventually instituted a "no politics" law, probably for the better, even though every morning I woke up to FOX News blaring since the dad was hard of hearing. I would flip it to CNN or MSNBC when he left the room just to gently caress with him. One time me and the old man were bullshitting about something and he said made some sort of political statement. I jokingly went into the kitchen and said "Ann! Charles is talking about politics!" She took him into another room and really bitched him the gently caress out. I felt kind of bad since I really was kidding and totally didn't care. Another time they were staying with us and dad apologized for having FOX News on my TV. I told him I didn't mind, that I love FOX and find it hilarious. One of my favorite comedy channels. He looked pissed off and wounded. No sense of humor. Apparently now they're "done with Trump". Not sure what pushed them over the edge but they still don't vote for democrats. Sorry for all the 
BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Sep 23, 2021 |
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Sep 23, 2021 14:40
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BiggerBoat posted:I think it's along the lines of them thinking that if anyone gets offended, they must have struck a nerve/hit on some sort of truth. Like, "if I'm so wrong, why are you getting so upset, huh?" sort of thing. People taking offense or being rubbed wrong validates them somehow. For some reason "truth hurts" has been taken as unchangeable fact. Truth must be painful. Truth isn't nice. Truth isn't courteus. Truth isn't funny. It is hard and hurtful. So corollary, if my saying hurt you, it must be true. It is more true to say that you have a fat rear end and ugly face than that is to you have a nice shirt. Simply because latter won't hurt you.
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Sep 23, 2021 16:20
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They're insecure bullies. Hurting people makes them feel powerful and good about themselves. It's even better when they can justify inflicting pain as a moral good however absurd the logic. That's also why the gently caress your feelings crowd has huge meltdowns when some one hurts their feelings.
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Sep 23, 2021 16:51
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People confuse heat with light.
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Sep 23, 2021 22:09
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Soylent Pudding posted:They're insecure bullies. Hurting people makes them feel powerful and good about themselves. It's even better when they can justify inflicting pain as a moral good however absurd the logic. That's also why the gently caress your feelings crowd has huge meltdowns when some one hurts their feelings. It's this. All the people described in this thread just aren't good people. I mean seriously, anyone subjecting their family to this definitely isn't better to random people, especially if that random person is part of the sub-group they hate (and whoo-boy are there many). It is okay to hypothesize why they became like this I suppose, but the end result is a bad person. The reasons they do this are because they like a negative reaction.
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Sep 24, 2021 06:10
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Either way, it seems like the answer (or AN answer) is just the same as it was when dealing with bullies on the playground: don't give them the satisfaction. Just ignore them and don't engage, and it won't escalate. It mightily sucks that, just like we told our parents at the time, 40 years later they still never seem to get bored and give up, they just keep getting worse.
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Sep 24, 2021 11:55
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Data Graham posted:Either way, it seems like the answer (or AN answer) is just the same as it was when dealing with bullies on the playground: don't give them the satisfaction. Just ignore them and don't engage, and it won't escalate. I've always found it's better to go straight at them. Reactionaries are all cowards.
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Sep 24, 2021 13:30
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Data Graham posted:Either way, it seems like the answer (or AN answer) is just the same as it was when dealing with bullies on the playground: don't give them the satisfaction. Just ignore them and don't engage, and it won't escalate. I have never found this to be at all accurate at any stage of life. And it requires massively disproportionate effort on the part of the target compared to the instigator. In reality, what you need is overwhelming force, the reason bullying is so effective is because people usually cannot fight back, because beating people to a bloody pulp is difficult and illegal, and hurting them emotionally requires a lot of knowledge and skill that you probably don't possess, so normally the application of force is achieved by rallying enough other people to attack them institutionally, with celebrities and online this can take the form of ruining their public reputation, if you are lucky with employment you might also be able to achieve this through disciplinary procedures, and on a personal level you might be able to get enough of your shared peer group to cut them off that it causes them significant harm, but in every case the nature of the solution is the same: they must be attacked with so much force that they cannot fight back and that it severely hurts them in some way or another. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 13:36
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Zerg rush your racist uncle
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Sep 24, 2021 18:31
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Ignoring bullies, trolls, or conservatives doesn't work. Standing up to them does.
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Sep 24, 2021 18:34
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Fighting only works if you can define a win condition or you enjoy the fighting as much as they do. You can't convince anyone who doesn't share the same priors (or the same reality) as you; the closest you can get is wearing them out, and that takes some rhetorical skill and verbal jujitsu. Or arrange an environment sympathetic to you and hostile to them, so they're stuck going off to whine about their perceived martyrdom.
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Sep 24, 2021 19:15
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Yeah, I've always been kind of meek and skinny so I learned the hard way that ignoring the bully just gets you picked on and hosed up even more. You have to put up some sort of fight in some way even if you get the poo poo beat out of you. What I learned to do, since I couldn't fight for poo poo, was to go all Bobby Hill with it with some "that's my purse I don't know you" to at least make it hard on them. I also made friends with a pretty big dude who stuck up for me on occasion. Problem was, if I got in ANY fight at all when I was a kid, my Mom would punish me even if I was just fighting back or defending myself. Made things difficult since no matter what I did I was getting wrecked somewhere. Either gettin my rear end kicked on the regular or grounded for fighting back. Thanks, mom. RIP. Having said all of that dumb poo poo, and since this thread is more about Thanksgiving tables, FW>FW>FW emails and idiotic FB posts, when it comes to standing up to that sort of poo poo...ignoring those seems to do the most good and I rarely engage with it unless I have a cool one liner locked and loaded. These motherfuckers are dug in very DEEP and I can't recall the last time I changed anyone's mind. It's basically a religion for them (conservatism) and good luck changing anyone's religious beliefs.
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Sep 24, 2021 20:49
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In family gathering situations I think it's better to call out the lovely behavior rather than debate the content of what's said. "What kind of broke-brained rear end in a top hat thinks it's appropriate to bring that up during Christmas dinner." "Not now honey the adults are talking." "You're an adult, I shouldn't have to tell you to not interrupt." "I see someone got their marching orders from the TV today." poo poo like that.
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Sep 25, 2021 02:30
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I've tried everything. The only thing that really worked was cutting contact permanently.
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Sep 25, 2021 02:42
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Trivia posted:In family gathering situations I think it's better to call out the lovely behavior rather than debate the content of what's said. This has been the most effective approach for me, personally. You’ve already lost the battle if you’re engaging with someone like that issue for issue on their batshit politics imo. Maybe some here do, but I don’t have the patience for that. I’ll just end up going off. However, categorically dismissing their politics as “conspiracy theory nonsense” has proven to be surprisingly effective at keeping certain family members from bringing up their batshit views. Like, I’ve made it clear I wont engage, and just take a “who broke you, I’m so sorry you genuinely feel that way” vibe and there’s no real counter they have for that. So they just don’t bother most of the time. Which I suppose reinforces what other posters have said, that at least part of it for these people is getting a rise out of you.
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Sep 26, 2021 05:47
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I'm pretty lucky in that I'm sure my folks are soft-left - dad worked for a union for a long stint of my childhood and mum, while critical of people like Corbyn, is only critical if you prod her about it while she is openly critical of the likes of Starmer, Conservatives et al. We don't talk politics and they play their cards close to their chest but I think I have a good read of them. I can't really speak to my sister's politics but since she's everyones' friend within ten minutes of meeting them I can't imagine her holding any right wing beliefs. She has some whacky theories though about chem trails, and the Illuminati cloning Beyonce. I don't speak to my brother enough to know his politics but he had some troubling views on transgender people when the topic came up about ten years ago. I like to imagine he's moved on since then. About the only living relative I can think of is my grandma, who again doesn't really talk politics but you pick it up in some of the vernacular she uses. Also the copy of the Daily Mail on her coffee table 
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Sep 28, 2021 16:22
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BiggerBoat posted:Yeah, I've always been kind of meek and skinny so I learned the hard way that ignoring the bully just gets you picked on and hosed up even more. You have to put up some sort of fight in some way even if you get the poo poo beat out of you. What I learned to do, since I couldn't fight for poo poo, was to go all Bobby Hill with it with some "that's my purse I don't know you" to at least make it hard on them. I also made friends with a pretty big dude who stuck up for me on occasion. I have no problem doing this when they're saying poo poo about me. The problem is, they're usually smart enough to say poo poo about other people who aren't around. Say, for instance, my racist aunt says that black people are lazy. I can tell her that she's a racist fucknut, but unless I have "proof," my opinion is invalid in her mind. (Her proof is, of course, "You're not black, so how would you know/I know more black people than you do/Even my black friends agree.") They purposely pick on people who aren't there because they're terrified of actually saying it to their faces. My MIL jokes that she can tell when white people become comfortable around her because they start saying more and more racist poo poo openly.
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Sep 28, 2021 20:37
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hyperhazard posted:My MIL jokes that she can tell when white people become comfortable around her because they start saying more and more racist poo poo openly. By far, one of the weirdest things I periodically experience as a brown. Makes me feel like my veins are pumping ice and then you never not think about “when so and so said the thing about the Irish, the gently caress” at random moments.
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Sep 28, 2021 20:44
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Things believed by a particular segment of my extended family: The EMP will happen any day now It's imperative to build a compound out in the wilderness The moon is not real Covid is just the flu Masks do not work The messiah has been reborn (I asked if they mean JFK Jr., I haven't heard back yet) Everyone who was vaccinated will be dead in exactly two years Joe Biden is a socialist Joe Biden rapes babies There are more, I'll keep you updated.
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Nov 29, 2021 01:33
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Animal-Mother posted:Things believed by a particular segment of my extended family: 2023 oh sorry a zero was missing we meant 20 years
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Nov 29, 2021 01:37
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Animal-Mother posted:The moon is not real Ok, I'll bite, how does this one work, what's that big ol white disc thing hanging up in the sky at night
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Nov 29, 2021 02:16
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Conspiracy by big government to make you think the world isn't flat.
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Nov 29, 2021 02:18
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Haystack posted:As I see it, the special sauce that leads to fascists is a powerful, unjustified sense of wound pride. The more unearned and tenuous the better. If you feel like pride is wounded, you get to feel like a victim even when you retain all the power. A victim complex like that lets you turn the slightest thing going against you into an epic struggle. It makes you easy to manipulate, and snowballs as you drive away anyone around you who has even the slightest bit more perspective than you. It lets you use your unacknowledged power without ever having to examine its use. If you face a consequence then, well, that's just more fuel for the fire. This is a localized compaction cycle narrative.
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Nov 29, 2021 02:25
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Blotto_Otter posted:Ok, I'll bite, how does this one work, what's that big ol white disc thing hanging up in the sky at night The moon doesn't exist and sun doesn't exist are the same flat earth shard. They think the moon and sun are a projector basically. It's more intricate but I don't care
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Nov 29, 2021 02:36
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My mom has only become a more extreme Reagan conservative since my dad died. Her partner is this gross Trumper who thinks "more money = better than" because he's very talented at investing in the stock market. Her belief in conservative fiscal policy has become a religious dogma, complete with a sermon that she gives almost monthly. Just imagine an overly-religious mother worried about their child's immortal soul, but instead is worried about their inheritance and tax burden. She thinks the bill just passed by the House is going to put me on the hook for $15000 in taxes because the value of my home went up by $60000 over the last 20 years. Because I can't afford that, the government is taxing me into poverty and making me dependent on them. According to her, they're trying to do the same to her and everybody else in the country and that's "SOCIALISM"!!! Later in the day, she told me that she tells me this so she can "educate" on matters of finance and taxes. Ok. Let's say I do an about face and become the biggest loving Reaganite supply-sider of the 21st century. What in the gently caress am I going to do about? What power do I have? I legit think she believes that, since I'm to the left of her, I'm going to give all of my wealth and inheritance to George Soros in the name of communism. I'm so worried she's going to get so crazy and worked up that she'll sell everything and write me out of her will. It's sad to say, but I planned on retiring on that inheritance. She's not Jeff Bezos, but it's a comfortable amount. I'll be up poo poo creek, otherwise. Happy loving Thanksgiving!!!
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Nov 29, 2021 03:36
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An acquaintance of mine (worked together usefully on some things, some friendly chat and socializing) always had some contrarian ideas. Vaguely libertarian, slight attitude that everyone can just lift themselves up by their bootstraps, the engineers arrogance that by reading a few webpages they can critique professionals, dismissive of the arts and humanities. On a level that you could forgive or ignore over infrequent correspondence. But over the years, I've seen him lean further and further into this, with Austrian school economics, climate change scepticism, borderline racism and sexism, being dismissive of conservation and biodiversity, claims of how he'd converted efforts with his arguments, etc. So when he recently came out as an anti-vaxxer, I was unsurprised. Of course he'd be into that. It's totally on brand. Like so many of those people who pride themselves as "independent thinkers", but overvalue the independence over thinking.
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Nov 29, 2021 16:14
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Blotto_Otter posted:Ok, I'll bite, how does this one work, what's that big ol white disc thing hanging up in the sky at night I think it's a Truman Show situation for her. When the director thinks the shot would look good with a moon, it's lowered onto the set.
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Nov 29, 2021 16:50
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Animal-Mother posted:I think it's a Truman Show situation for her. When the director thinks the shot would look good with a moon, it's lowered onto the set. Also, duh, why do you think you always ever see one side of it? Moon spins, earth spins, moon spins around the earth. Some coincidence that it always looks exactly the same, isn't it, solar system believers? Check mate. So...how do the flat earthers and moon projector conspiracy types explain all the ancient cultures that worshiped sun and moon gods and poo poo and all the drawings, art and writing they created about it? Or is all that stuff in museums fake too? Cause this would take some serious loving planning and I need to think here.
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Nov 29, 2021 21:58
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volts5000 posted:I legit think she believes that, since I'm to the left of her, I'm going to give all of my wealth and inheritance to George Soros in the name of communism. I'm so worried she's going to get so crazy and worked up that she'll sell everything and write me out of her will. It's sad to say, but I planned on retiring on that inheritance. She's not Jeff Bezos, but it's a comfortable amount. I'll be up poo poo creek, otherwise. Politics isn't as local as people like to think. You don't need to change her mind, in fact, you need her money. Change other people's minds and make these waning years of sanity tolerable for both of you and reach for things you want (other than money) from that relationship.
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Nov 29, 2021 23:35
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Glory to Italia!
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BiggerBoat posted:Also, duh, why do you think you always ever see one side of it? Moon spins, earth spins, moon spins around the earth. If they don't believe in the moon they definitely don't believe in ancient cultures.
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Nov 30, 2021 06:05
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So I knew my family weren't really speaking to my uncle due to antivax stuff but I didn't really realise how far gone he was until I looked at his Twitter yesterday: https://twitter.com/HowardSteen4 One of his daughters is a GP in the UK and has been working on Covid wards recently, not sure if she'll be speaking to him too much. Very minor, but he was a pretty good artist, used to do very technical landscapes, bit anemic but very good technically. But that picture he's done that's pinned to the top of the feed looks like it was done by a mental patient, the quality of his work seems to have dropped proportionally in relation to his posting.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:25
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ILL Machina posted:Politics isn't as local as people like to think. You don't need to change her mind, in fact, you need her money. Change other people's minds and make these waning years of sanity tolerable for both of you and reach for things you want (other than money) from that relationship. The problem is that, ever since my dad died, she's been running away from me, not the other way around. She barely knows her own grandchildren. I've spent years chasing her to no avail, so I gave up. It still hurts. She's going into phased retirement, so she'll only become more isolated. I feel like I'm simply a means to carry her legacy instead of her actual son. The last time I engaged with her with discussing politics was several years ago. The topic was Israel/Palestine and she misheard something I said. To her, it sounded like I said "the jews had it coming". Instead of asking for clarification, she internalized it and started asking my extended family what my deal was. When she finally confronted me, she said she was concerned about leaving me in her will because I was a "socialist" and would give all of her wealth away to "radical left wing groups". That's when I realized that I was no longer her son, just a prop for her politics. She has no idea who I am, just this version in her head of who she thinks I am. Every conversation I have with her is a minefield. I'm afraid I'll say something banal like "eggs" and it will pivot into a political rant. Sometimes, I don't even need to say anything. I was at her beach house and, out of the blue, she started talking about having another child so she can have it taken away at the border and earn a cool $450,000. I tried to become closer to her after losing my dad, but she's made it crystal clear that wants nothing to do with me except when she needs me to do something for her (because I'm a loving chump). All I need to do is just keep this smile on my face a little longer.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:53
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volts5000 posted:The problem is that, ever since my dad died, she's been running away from me, not the other way around. She barely knows her own grandchildren. I've spent years chasing her to no avail, so I gave up. It still hurts. She's going into phased retirement, so she'll only become more isolated. I feel like I'm simply a means to carry her legacy instead of her actual son. You could try literally telling her this. But you know, it might blow up in a big way. Alternatively, try to bear it a little longer to get that cash. My ex had a very similar situation with her mother. I saw how much it hosed up my ex and that hosed me up and this all together also put some (more) strain on our relationship. At the time she kept choosing for maintaining a chance at getting that money (and it was a hell of a lot of money), understandably because she also acutely needed it to fund her studies and (very modest) life. From what I understand she finally got herself cut off when her mother rejected her new partner after we broke up and she stood up to her mother over it in a big way. All I can think about that is "good for her" with a tiny little bit of "wish she would've done that for me". I can't judge your life situation and you might be dependent on this money, but if you aren't like really absolutely dependent on it, it's probably not worth it to put up with this poo poo. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 16:52
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If she is extremely old and/or extremely wealthy, then I'd urge you to just do whatever it takes to eat the bowl of poo poo. Admit it to yourself you're enduring this for the cash for your kids, and do what you need to do. If she's not that old and/or it's not that much money, then why do it at all?
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Dec 2, 2021 20:38
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If you aren't good at Excel I can help you prepare some tables calculating the hourly wage you get eating this poo poo from most rich people compared to the time you're putting in and how much she might leave you. The part where there's a chance she might leave you nothing is a bit concerning imo
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Dec 3, 2021 04:41
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Cobalt-60 posted:Fighting only works if you can define a win condition or you enjoy the fighting as much as they do. My way in was "You never act like this." That was my chance to shine a really bright light on some very ugly poo poo. Like how for twenty years I had to drink shots of hard liquor all day to tolerate being home for Thanksgiving or Christmas, and why I don't come around otherwise: Because this family made it clear it was aligned with Trump and denied me any chance to be myself for the last six years. This is why you don't loving know how I sound. Around you, I sound like the sun shines out of your loving rear end because I'm afraid of being left to die alone. In my case, that was enough to prove my point. Yes, it was dirty of me to use my alcoholism as a weapon. I feel a little ashamed about that. But you something? Not much. No one who continues to vote with the "we're going to do all this out in the open because we know you are that stupid" caucus will ever be seen, in my eyes, as anyone but the suckers who let their loving anti-christ in. Yes, if they are this wrong about vaccine science, and willing to knowingly kill you to keep you loyal, what else have they convinced you of that is completely fabricated bullshit? Let me know when you are ready to find out because I already have a long list I could cover off the top of my loving head. And you know what? I can demonstrate that the violent obstruction of the peaceful transfer of power actually affected me, since you all noticed it. Where the gently caress were you? Too busy complaining about loving Dr. Suess and getting into multiple fights with MUPPETS. Let's just say it has been cathartic. Dr. Faustus fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 01:54
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My father increasingly seems to think it’s funny to say all the right things about topics like gender identity, but to do so in an exaggerated faux-uncertain tone - just innocent enough for those who don’t know him to assume good faith, but just mocking enough to everyone else to show how he really feels. I chewed him out about it via text after a couple such comments on our weekly phone call, and he left me on read, which is a first for him. So he’s either embarrassed or indignant - there’s still some scrap of me hoping for the former, but after the last five years, I think I know deep down it’s the latter. Guess I’ll find out soon enough.
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Dec 17, 2021 04:20
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