|
Oh sure, with you there. lovely writing is the overarching problem.
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 03:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:47 |
|
|
 Senor Tron posted:Also I might be cynical, but this seems like it must either be that he has a great idea, or that the BBC were close to putting it back on ice for a while without someone from the revivals most popular series involved. Betting the terms were: 1) a shitload of money 2) "If you don't come back and do this it's getting cancelled again" volts5000 posted:I always felt that RTD's stories were really lacking, but holy poo poo, he could knock it out of the park when it came to character interactions and character dynamics. That's why the best of RTD's tenure were the Moffat episodes. Moffat could write some drat good stories when he was properly restrained. RTD's character direction and Moffat's stories gave us "The Empty Child", "Blink", and "The Girl in the Fireplace". Moffat back as a writer?  I think I preferred the Moffat era over RTD, but that may be because Moffat's highs were so high--I can't imagine the 50th being more perfect, and even if he cheated a bit to ensure he did the New Regeneration Cycle story, it was drat good. But RTD brought the show back perfectly, teasing it as a reimagining, then slowly dropping the continuity in the backdoor. He made it an international mainstream sensation, validating what all us niche scifi nerds knew--that it was a great show that told compelling, imaginative stories. I think on the balance, his seasons were more even than Moffat's. The_Doctor posted:Hmmmm Remember how literally every bucket list item that RTD, Moffat, and Chibnall checked off was telegraphed by stuff they said or wrote about DW since they were kids? Now if RTD got his old ideas out of the way, I wonder if he's telegraphing his new ones? (I would be 100% down with all these) Overall I am happy. They had a choice here--roll the dice on another uberfan and hope they get a Moffat and not another Chibnall, or hire a non-fan pro and worry they might ruin it and reimagine it into something unrecognizable. Instead they went an unexpected third way nobody saw coming. Probably as big a shock and pleasant surprise as Star Trek getting Patrick Stewart back (here's hoping the result is...better).
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 03:47
|
|
|
Pastamania posted:I actually preferred Moffat's run on the whole, but he just dodged the impact of people running away with The Doctor entirely by making everyone orphans. Which in fairness, he was very overtly trying to make the show a fairytale, and the orphan who escapes to go on magical adventures is an archytype going back centuries specifically because it neatly dodges the 'but what about the parents!?' bit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 07:52
|
|
|
I mean, Amy didn’t know she was going to be a mother until LITERALLY the end of the Ganger two-parter. Plus, Let’s Kill Hitler takes place after a time-skip of a few months.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 07:57
|
|
|
Crazy news. It will be a huge breath of fresh air after Chibnall, but bringing RTD back does reek of JNT-ish desperation a little bit. I wouldn't be surprised if no one else wanted to run Who (it's obviously not an easy show to run) and he took the job to save it from cancellation. I wonder if he's genuinely going for a full years-long run or if he's supposed to just be a stable hand acting as caretaker over the 60th and the next doctor's first season or so. I kinda feel like the most important thing he has to do is find himself a successor and make sure the show stays afloat until the next showrunner is ready to take over.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 08:16
|
|
|
RTD's first run was always pretty clearly Doctor Who after the style of Dark Season, and if I'm to teach you anything it's this: all we've ever needed to go with that is Doctor Who after the style of Century Falls.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 08:24
|
|
|
Edward Mass posted:I mean, Amy didn’t know she was going to be a mother until LITERALLY the end of the Ganger two-parter. Plus, Let’s Kill Hitler takes place after a time-skip of a few months. If we accept Amy and Rory's death as a fixed point in time (and god knows the Doctors seem to) then they actually got to spend more time with their daughter than they would have if they died while she was an infant. What happened to Amy sucks from a real-world perspective, but the real world doesn't move at the pace of the most exposition-heavy episodes of Moff Who. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Sep 25, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 08:26
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I had such incredibly high hopes after The Woman Who Fell to Earth. It's a genuinely great episode and a really good "introduction" episode for new fans, but yeah they don't really play off on any of the initially introduced ideas.... which is crazy because Chibnall is the guy who wrote them in the first place! I will not stand for this Demons of The Punjab erasure. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 09:59
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I had such incredibly high hopes after The Woman Who Fell to Earth. It's a genuinely great episode and a really good "introduction" episode for new fans, but yeah they don't really play off on any of the initially introduced ideas.... which is crazy because Chibnall is the guy who wrote them in the first place! I completely agree about Jodie having a fantastic introduction story (she even looks great in Capaldi's costume!) and there being some really interesting stories dotted around Chibnall's tenure so far. I've even got quite a soft spot for some of the more formulaic stories (e.g. The Tsuranga Conundrum), in part because I think Segun Akinola's produced some of the best music of show's revival so far. It'd be great if he stays on board, though I'd understand if RTD wanted to start things off with a fresh team.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 10:25
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:I will not stand for this Demons of The Punjab erasure. I like that episode! It covers an absolutely fascinating part of history and you can tell the actors, particularly the guest cast, are really giving their all because they know it's a pretty big deal and they really, really want to make it work. It works really effectively in some parts, less so in others, but the effort is always there and I think it's one of those episodes that ends up being more than the sum of its parts. It also features an aspect of this Doctor I really liked and would have enjoyed seeing explored further, which is her immediately embracing customs that are - for want of a better word - alien to her. The girls' night in before the wedding is a nice touch, but what really stands out is her angrily accusing the "assassins" and then seconds later after being corrected spotting that they're engaging in some ritual activity of religious significance to their culture and immediately joining in without a second's hesitation because it's important to them and she respects that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 11:37
|
|
|
spyfall was fun, just gets retroactively ruined by the season finale.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 13:22
|
|
|
Mooseontheloose posted:spyfall was fun, just gets retroactively ruined by the season finale. Yeah, several other good episodes of the season do too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 14:08
|
|
|
I love the typically Whovian suspicions here that RTD got appointed out of BBC desperation and that we’re in another JNT “nobody else wants this” situation. Maybe nobody else the BBC wanted was lobbying for the position, but we know of at least one other person who was. Far more likely is that they talked to RTD and liked his pitch the best, and it sounds like RTD’s pitch was “I was trying to run a Doctor Who franchise before such things were cool, so let’s try it again”. My bet is that he wants to be Who’s Feige. That might mean refreshing Who for a few years first, then becoming franchise supervisor while another showrunner comes in. What’s less clear is precisely what kinds of spin-offs he has in mind, mainly because most of the obvious choices right now would have to be headlined by people who probably wouldn’t say yes. I don’t think we’re getting a Clara and Me spin-off, for instance. So over a few years, RTD may deliberately design spin-off worthy characters and concepts and get their actors signed to a MCU-style contract where they commit to play the character in multiple series if that gets approved by the BBC. That could turn out either amazing or cringeworthy. In particular, watch for more writers who are potential showrunners themselves in the anniversary year: if you want Gatiss to run a spin-off show, having him write the episode that could generate it makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 14:36
|
|
|
Narsham posted:I love the typically Whovian suspicions here that RTD got appointed out of BBC desperation and that we’re in another JNT “nobody else wants this” situation. Maybe nobody else the BBC wanted was lobbying for the position, but we know of at least one other person who was. Who was the other person that was actively seeking the job? I don't recall it coming up ITT. Every so often Gatiss comes up as a possible showrunner, but to the best of my knowledge he's never actively sought out the position. Also the last loving thing DW needs is to be turned into a MCU-style franchise. When RTD tried it the first time, it resulted in a somewhat okay kids show, a show that was absolute edgelord dreck, and the main show suffering as RTD started getting burned out; and he was still talking about maybe doing spinoff shows with Rose Tyler and/or Jenny the Doctor's "Daughter", and I think there was even speculation that he was mulling over a Sally Sparrow-focused show. The show needs someone that's going to make it a good show again, not trying to franchise the poo poo out of it to the point of overexposure. Nobody wants the Doctor Who channel with a zillion spinoffs that he described, because 99.9% of it would be absolute trash.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 14:54
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1441516491011100672?s=20
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 15:19
|
|
|
Sydney Bottocks posted:Who was the other person that was actively seeking the job? I don't recall it coming up ITT. Every so often Gatiss comes up as a possible showrunner, but to the best of my knowledge he's never actively sought out the position. The guy who tweeted in the reply following yours.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 15:28
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:The guy who tweeted in the reply following yours. I completely thought that was a joke, given that he's a Yank and I can't see the BBC being able to tell the government "we don't have anyone else in Britain that can do the job" in order to get around laws about giving non-citizens actual jobs. I could be wrong about that part though, I dunno if there's an exception for creative TV show types.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 15:37
|
|
|
Sydney Bottocks posted:I can't see the BBC being able to tell the government "we don't have anyone else in Britain that can do the job" in order to get around laws about giving non-citizens actual jobs. Speaking of which, didn't the Tories pass some crummy law recently forcing the BBC to shop jobs around to private companies before looking for somebody in-house? This is presumably why Bad Wolf Studies is co-producing the next series. I guess the no hiring foreigners things would cancel out that re: hiring someone like Stracynzski, though who knows if he made an actual pitch or just a tweet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 17:06
|
|
|
The Tories couldn't even complain about it going to Bad Wolf, because Piers Wenger shooting Gardner and Tranter an email saying "hey, we're having to tender this, but we'll give it to you in the end, wink wink" is exactly how the government give out contracts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 17:21
|
|
|
Rochallor posted:Speaking of which, didn't the Tories pass some crummy law recently forcing the BBC to shop jobs around to private companies before looking for somebody in-house? This is presumably why Bad Wolf Studies is co-producing the next series. I guess the no hiring foreigners things would cancel out that re: hiring someone like Stracynzski, though who knows if he made an actual pitch or just a tweet. JMS posted multiple tweets, asked who his agents needed to communicate with, and then passed along the response he got (which I believe was also posted here, prompting a mini-discussion about how if the British are polite to you you know you didn't get the job). Bad Wolf is Julie Gardner and Jane Trantor, who produced Who with Davies. Gardner did Torchwood and Sarah Jane, and she was working for BBC Worldwide before starting Bad Wolf with Trantor; their last series was a streaming show starring Billie Piper which streamed in the US on HBO Max. Trantor was Controller of BBC Drama and brought Who back, and she then took over at BBC Worldwide before leaving to found Bad Wolf with Gardner. These are two extremely "connected" women, both in terms of the BBC and of BBC Worldwide, and they're also hooked into the HBO organization (apart from Bad Wolf,Trantor is an exec producer on Succession). Couple that with RTD's "Who as streaming franchise" and this starts looking very much like a very savvy end-run around that law to create an independent production group affiliated with the BBC and run by BBC insiders to massively grow the franchise. I would expect to start hearing about partnerships between the BBC and HBO to produce spin-offs. Given that Billie Piper just worked with Bad Wolf, I would not be surprised to see them offer her a show centered around Rose at 40; that would also give her a chance to show off her acting chops, as I've always gotten the sense from her that she's a bit embarrassed by her early Who performances. Whether they can snag Tennant as the Hand Doctor is anybody's guess; maybe he'd appear infrequently? Camille Coduri and Shaun Dingwall as the Tyler parents are probably realistic gets, too. Given RTD's investment in the Tylers, and the advantages of running a spin-off in an alternate universe, that idea seems like it would have legs and it could benefit from the experience doing Torchwood and Sarah Jane while going in a slightly different direction. As there doesn't seem to be a Doctor in that universe, that would also neatly solve the "where's the Doctor" problem.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 18:10
|
|
|
It might just be me, but I don't think the answer to "how do we revive the sagging ratings of our once internationally-popular show, and turn it back into the pop culture touchstone it used to be" is "make more of it". Doctor Who doesn't need a dedicated channel, it doesn't need for us to revisit Rose and her family (which would be about the most creatively bankrupt thing I could think of), and it doesn't need a zillion goddamn spinoffs. What it needs is someone who gives a poo poo about making the show good again. Now, what our individual definition of what would make for "good" modern-day DW is entirely a matter of personal taste, but that's also a debate for another day. Focus on making a good show first, worry about milking the poo poo out of its franchise potential second.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 22:13
|
|
|
Big Finish can handle the weird spin-offs, not the show. Honestly I'm hoping that Davies is going to act more as a script editor than a showrunner this time. The issue with the Chibnall years is that he insisted on writing the majority of it himself. They had Malorie Blackman write an episode....and utterly wasted her talents. It'd be nice to see Paul Cornell write again, but I think he's only writing creator owned stuff now, iirc. I did prefer Moffat's run overall, especially when 12 rolled around, and he dropped the silence story arc, which had great bits and ideas, but felt messy in practice. The final series with 12 and Bill was wonderful.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 00:48
|
|
|
Here is my crazy, wild and out-there suggestion on how the BBC should handle the show. I know it sounds revolutionary but hey let's aim big: Every year (EVERY year) they make 12-13 new episodes of the show. It airs on the same day each week, at the same time each week. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go lie down, that took a lot out of me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 01:32
|
|
|
mmmm yes I see But what if we brought Rose back instead?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 02:37
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Here is my crazy, wild and out-there suggestion on how the BBC should handle the show. I know it sounds revolutionary but hey let's aim big: What we really need is Who+ at £9.95 a month
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 03:04
|
|
|
Payndz posted:Hindsight (and becoming a parent myself) has made Moffat's story choices about Amy and Roy's child utterly horrifying. "Your daughter was stolen from you, but it's okay! You already grew up with her as one of your school friends!" No, it's not okay, you loving robot-brained weirdo. Their child was taken from them, but the trauma of that was too big a bummer to deal with in a zappy Saturday-evening family adventure show, so quick, brush it off in one episode and distract from it by having Rory punch Comedy Hitler! Sometimes I still think about how between Day of the Moon and The Angels Take Manhattan, Melody, Amy and Rory were all left in basically the same place and time period.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 07:55
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Still can't believe the dreadful Planet of the Dead was followed up by something as loving incredible as Waters of Mars. That really was RTD in a nutshell, the best of times and the blurst of times. Tennant was my favorite Doctor for the longest time, and for some reason, Planet of the Dead was not on Netflix when I first watched the show. I decided to put that episode off for a while because at least I'd have another episode with Ten I could revisit sometime. I finally tried to watch it a few years later and gave up about 15 minutes in. It was easily the worst Doctor Who I'd ever seen at that point.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 17:39
|
|
|
If it makes you feel any better... it got WORSE as it went on 
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 17:52
|
|
|
'Planet of the Dead' was a masterpiece compared to part 1 of 'The End of Time', though. Every bad thing about RTD's (first, lol) era holding each other's beers. I was embarrassed to be watching it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 18:20
|
|
|
Say what you will about Rusty, when he got bonkers he never failed to be interesting...
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 03:09
|
|
|
TL posted:Tennant was my favorite Doctor for the longest time, and for some reason, Planet of the Dead was not on Netflix when I first watched the show. I decided to put that episode off for a while because at least I'd have another episode with Ten I could revisit sometime. I finally tried to watch it a few years later and gave up about 15 minutes in. It was easily the worst Doctor Who I'd ever seen at that point. Oh, you probably missed the treat of Lee Evans' comedy bumbling scientist, then. Easily the 'best' part
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 03:47
|
|
|
Wolfechu posted:Oh, you probably missed the treat of Lee Evans' comedy bumbling scientist, then. Easily the 'best' part Don't worry, I'm sure RTD will figure out a way to bring him, Lady Christina de Souza, Elton and the blowjob paving slab, and Rose (and her whole drat family) back. Probably in an episode that features the Absorbaloff fighting the Slitheen or something equally wonderful.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 05:59
|
|
|
OldMemes posted:Honestly I'm hoping that Davies is going to act more as a script editor than a showrunner this time. The issue with the Chibnall years is that he insisted on writing the majority of it himself. Remember when we were saying this about Chibnall and his supposed "Writer's Room?" I mean, I absolutely agree, Doctor Who is at its best when there's a wide variety of stories, and most* of the worst episodes of the revival have been written by showrunners who were stretched too thin or burnt out, so I would greatly love a return to the Classic Era "Script Editor/Producer/Episode Writer" structure... but it ain't gonna happen. But hey, the news got me back into the thread after giving up on the show towards the start of Jodie's second season. * This is not to let the writers of awful one-offs off the hook, of course.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 06:17
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROdUPDwOw8A
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 18:04
|
|
|
Well, for everyone who wanted JMS to take over Who, guess he was busy: https://twitter.com/Snoodit/status/1442534508474085379?s=20 ALSO, the trailer for THE EVIL OF THE DALEKS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROdUPDwOw8A Davros1 fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 27, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 18:25
|
|
|
Wait, they only just released the trailer? I literally just put the disc in my player!
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 21:15
|
|
|
Not all of us have a Time-Space Visualiser, Payndz.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 21:25
|
|
|
I think I'm here for RTD era 2.0. His seasons were enjoyable trainwrecks that whiplashed back and forth between maudlin and zany, and it feels like it might be a good time for that, when the season comes out in like 2025? And sure, he can hire Moffat back to write one episode per season in which it turns out it's a simulated world, some kind of childish rhyme repeats itself and gains new horrible meaning with each iteration, and in the end everybody dies, but also lives forever, etc. I don't think the timing is right for a Doctor Who multiverse, though. We're already so oversaturated with that kind of thing now every streaming service needs three inter-related shows to capitalize off of existing franchises, and the SJA/Torchwood success, if you can call it that, seems like it was probably just a fluke. I'd be down for one anthology show that revisits past companions, Doctors, or locations and employs a diverse array of writers. I'm still gonna fuckin' watch it if they just get Matt Smith back and do Eleventh Doctor Adventures or whatever, though, lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 21:57
|
|
|
I personally think that RTD coming back to the show is bad for several reasons: 1. It smacks of desperation on the BBC's part. Regardless of who approached who first, it looks for all the world like they desperately want to make the show the pop culture phenomenon it was during RTD's first run, which is going to be nigh-on impossible to do. 1a. It's also going to set some people's expectations to a very unreasonable level, when it comes to his casting the Doctor, particularly one of two groups people: those who hope he's going to cast [actor who was in one of his recent projects], or those who hope he brings David Tennant back (and I will lay money down that the BBC, if not actively suggesting the latter, is at least secretly hoping for it). It's not a huge deal to me, personally, but I think there's going to be a fair bit of backlash if he goes a different route than what people are hoping for/expecting (and bravo to him if he does, tbh). 2. RTD is capable of good episodes, or at least good moments, but he is also a very lazy writer (and I still lol at the defense he once mounted against that charge by saying "why, I'm up until the wee hours of the morning writing these scripts") who suffers from the same problems Stephen King does: a refusal to kill his darlings, and a tendency to start a story out strong only to rush towards an unsatisfying finish because he thought we needed to spend time on the characters' personal lives instead of advancing the plot. He also has a very irrritating tendency towards using Whedon-esque quippy dialogue in place of actual character building (at least in DW, anyways). 3. RTD also loved bringing back familiar faces during his run on the show, regardless of whether anyone actually wanted to see them or not. At best this will probably mean we get to see Rose and her family again; at worst, I have the feeling he's going to use the show as part of the "John Barrowman Image Rehabilitation Project" (granted, this is not anything he's spoken out about publicly, but the fact that he and Gardner and the rest of them turned a blind eye to it during their first run on the show doesn't make me feel confident that they won't at least try to push the "it was so long ago, he's changed now" narrative). 4. He clearly wants to franchise the poo poo out of the show, which is absolutely not what it needs right now. 5. Finally, and this is just a personal opinion, but I honestly don't think he's as great a writer as everyone seems to think. What bits of his non-DW stuff that I have seen, haven't exactly blown me away. But again, that's just a personal taste thing, nothing more.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 22:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:47 |
|
|
I’ve seen one particular take elsewhere that I at least hope is true: RTD coming back gets all the attention, but partnering with Bad Wolf is the real story. One area where Doctor Who has really struggled in the last decade is the nuts and bolts of just putting out episodes consistently, and partnering with another production company that is better at consistently producing episodes of tv should be helpful. Now I don’t know if that really true, but it’s an interpretation of the situation that makes me at least a little bit hopeful.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2021 22:59
|
|
