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LochNessMonster posted:I don’t mind giving exit interviews. They usually don’t mean much and I don’t expect anything to change. I mean yeah it feels good to do that but you'll never work for that company again. 15 years from now everyone that sucks today will be gone, but you'll still be marked Not Eligible For Rehire in their HR system and the HR Drones of Tomorrow will shrug and obey. Personally I prefer to keep my future options as open as possible. (Of course if you know you're already going to be marked NEFR then by all means let 'er rip,  )
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Sep 25, 2021 20:21
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I’m going to give my notice on Monday, going to try to give 2 weeks for a week off before next job but I like my soon to be ex manager and team and if they need more time I’m ok with that. I’m a bit torn up even still despite leaving for almost 3x the comp, work I am more interested in and other perks so it’s making my stomach all twisty and I hate it. Been there 8 years and it’s been stable with some cool projects but my mind realizes it is a good time to go, with my future tasks being a lot of debugging hell of problems of not of my own making. Ironically in my next position it’s very likely I’ll be the customer of the products I worked on before! So I can give the apps guys a hard time 
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Sep 25, 2021 20:32
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Just to offer a bit of a different perspective, I'm the HR drone that does exit interviews at my company, and I've never marked anyone as ineligible for rehire based on what they've said. If I get the same specific complaints from several people, I can use that as a justification to recommend action to the VP. In past orgs I had authority to take action myself, and certainly did if it was something I could change (base/unfair pay for entry level staff, repeated manager complaints, etc). I also give the employee the option to choose who they share their answers with. Without data from exiting employees to say why they are leaving, it's hard to convince higher ups which specific reason is driving turnover (and therefore costing them money). That being said, plenty of HR departments are lovely and filled with incompetents and bootlickers, so do one at your own risk.
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Sep 25, 2021 21:28
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I’m looking forward to my exit interview. I can tell them that I really wanted to stay with the company and applied to 15 internal positions, and I only got an interview for one on the same day I accepted an outside offer. Although they probably don’t care what I think since they didn’t seem to want to let me have a different position.
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Sep 25, 2021 22:51
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Thanks for your perspective Parallel, it definitely has value. That said--I can't speak to the particular orgs you've worked for, but I can only say with fervor that anyone who ever trusts an HR person saying "we'll never share what you say with anyone you don't approve of, I promise!" is an idiot. Like, you might be working for one of the rare companies where you can trust HR, but in the context of an exit interview you should probably pause to consider that if that were true, you probably wouldn't be leaving.
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Sep 25, 2021 22:52
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Interesting conversation, thank you! When I left my old company earlier this year, I don't recall doing an exit interview, nor do I recall one even being scheduled. It's possible that the chaos of changing jobs and getting prepped to move impacted this recollection, however. What is the best way to go about finding out if I'm eligible for rehire at my old company? I'm expecting I'll stay in this role I'm in for another 1.5 years or so, but I figured it'd be nice to know if have the option of going back (and/or if I'd want to let another employer reach out to my old one, I guess!) Which brings up another interesting question: am I correct large corporations typically only give out dates of employment and if the employee is eligible for rehire if another company calls to confirm employment?
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Sep 25, 2021 23:03
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Zarin posted:Which brings up another interesting question: am I correct large corporations typically only give out dates of employment and if the employee is eligible for rehire if another company calls to confirm employment? You are correct that that is what most companies do. In most US states they are not under any specific legal restriction, though; that's a common misunderstanding. If J. Random Applicant's boss thinks he sucked, his former company is allowed to say so. But most companies don't, just because a blanket "say nothing" policy is the lowest-effort way to protect against getting sued. As far as your specific job titles and salary, many/most large companies share that information with third party aggregators that any subscribing company has access to. So don't lie about that stuff.
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Sep 25, 2021 23:43
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Not a really helpful addition but the amount I trust HR is inversely proportional to the number of people in the department that aren't me. There's a reason my career trajectory has brought me from like $13 an hour to 85k salaried in 4 years and it's because there's so many lovely and incompetent people in HR that I win by default a lot of the time. That being said, if it's a smaller department and you have a good relationship with the HR manager or generalist, no reason to think they would share those results with people you don't approve. Most managers don't care, have an innate fear of HR anyway (so they won't demand seeing it), and so unless you're going out of your way to break trust with a former employee there really isn't any reason to share what someone has told about why they are leaving. Just to put it in perspective, if you come to me and say Jim Shithead is a terrible manager that broke several company policies during your exit interview, then it's certainly something I'd try to look into if it's possible to prove. If it's not, then I'd wait for other people working under JS to leave for the same reason, and I could take action on it being that it's now a reasonable assumption that multiple people aren't quitting and lying about why. Going to JS with that info in hopes the problem will go away on its own is certainly a track other people/departments could take though. For background checks, the likelihood that a company gives more info than dates, title, and eligible for rehire increases based on how small they are. My personal policy when doing one is to only tell the minimum amount of information and they can gently caress off if I'm asked about salary, but my ancient and somewhat stupid coworker will happily blab on about the individual at length. Once a company hits a certain size it's typically outsourced to handful of larger 3rd parties and they are notorious for giving bad info, to the point that if a person has any experience adjudicating backgrounds for hire eligibility, they should know to just take the fact that they were actually employed there as the only useful info and default to the employee's story for the rest. The massive healthcare company I worked for had a third party that would routinely gently caress up proper reporting for former employees that were reapplying, which always cracked me up.
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Sep 26, 2021 02:32
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Thanks for the effortpost, Parallel. It doesn't make me personally any less conservative on this subject, but it's useful info to have in the thread for sure.Parallelwoody posted:For background checks, the likelihood that a company gives more info than dates, title, and eligible for rehire increases based on how small they are. This is definitely true in my experience. The bigger the company the more likely there's a blanket HR policy of "never say anything about a former employee beyond dates of employment and rehire status".
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Sep 26, 2021 02:45
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Yeah I'm certainly not trying to change anyone's mind about doing an exit interview, I just wanted to offer the perspective that they aren't just traps and do actually have a legitimate purpose to make the environment better. That being said, it's easy to twist what you say and get listed as ineligible for rehire because some petty generalist or manager took offense, which does have an impact on your future ability to get hired. My personal and professional opinion is that you should skip them unless you have a really good reason not to and also don't mind the risk it could hurt your future employment status. At the end of the day it's only there to help the company you're leaving, not you, so gently caress it.
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Sep 26, 2021 03:11
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My last "exit interview" consisted of me turning in my badge and laptop and being escorted out 
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Sep 26, 2021 03:31
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Eric the Mauve posted:I mean yeah it feels good to do that but you'll never work for that company again. 15 years from now everyone that sucks today will be gone, but you'll still be marked Not Eligible For Rehire in their HR system and the HR Drones of Tomorrow will shrug and obey. I only do this for companies I’m not going to work for ever again. The market for what I do is big enough to be picky enough to burn bridges for all the shitshow clown companies I ended up with. Funnily enough the people who played a part in me leaving are still working there, respectively 13 and 8 years later. As are many of my coworkers (in the same role, likely still underpaid, undervalued and abused). But you’re right, don’t burn bridges if you have to.
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Sep 26, 2021 17:05
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When I handed my notice in, I went and saw the site Director first and told her, if she found out from anyone else, then that would have probably burned the bridge, at least a little bit, petty as that sounds, it's probably better to just pander to it. I think she considered me part of her management team (even though technically I'm matrix managed by someone central so not really) Overall, it was just courteous to go and stick my head in her office. My actual boss already knew as it was an internal move and then I told the HR lady just to belt and brace things. It was only at that point did I bother to put it in writing. I'm not expecting an exit interview but I will reiterate my opinion about a decision on a certain project that was terrible. (to retain a manual system instead of installing some software as it wasn't a perfect fit -never would be though, need to get on with it.) The only awkward bit that I could potentially be asked is that when my current place of work found out about my desire to progress into the other division, they offered a sort of opportunity to create an accelerated promotion scheme but into a field I'm not especially interested in, if I was cynical, I could say I humoured them a bit more than I should have but then just ran off anyway, they might want to go through that but I'm cool if that was the case, we are all chill about it. When it was discussed we both acknowledged I would be continuing my development as per the way events unfolded.
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Sep 27, 2021 16:03
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Not really an exit interview as such, but I had that meeting with my manager today, where I handed him my resignation and we talked about project handovers, knowledge transfer etc for a bit, as well as some (good-natured) griping on his part for our main customer "poaching" me. 10/10 would do it that way again. As an addendum - the notice period over here in  is generally 3 months, so it's not like I could have just walked out afterwards, even though I really want to get this poo poo over with so I can start at my new job 
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Sep 27, 2021 17:05
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My first job also had a three months notice period and I became a very bitter and negative employee at the end of it. It's just bad business practice to keep an unhappy employee around.
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Sep 27, 2021 17:14
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My plan is to give as few fucks as possible until December 17
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Sep 27, 2021 17:18
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Hadlock posted:My gut reaction would be to talk to people on the dev team, see what they think, maybe go to "virtual lunch" with some of them; see if someone there might vouch for you. Then talk with that person and the dev manager, maybe as a sidebar on a more project focused meeting. If you can get team buy in and the dev manager buy in, then approach your manager and take it from there. Get the group consensus first, make it easy/comfortable for your manager to stick their neck out for you This makes sense. I'll ask some people over there and feel it out.
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Sep 27, 2021 17:19
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angry armadillo posted:When I handed my notice in, I went and saw the site Director first and told her, if she found out from anyone else, then that would have probably burned the bridge, at least a little bit, petty as that sounds, it's probably better to just pander to it. I think she considered me part of her management team (even though technically I'm matrix managed by someone central so not really) Overall, it was just courteous to go and stick my head in her office. My actual boss already knew as it was an internal move and then I told the HR lady just to belt and brace things. I'm probably looking at a similar situation in the near future. My direct manager appears to be entirely disinterested in any kind of management or leadership, my skip level doesn't want to undermine her authority. I'm looking to jump ship to a higher title, which I know is going to take a few months to pull off. I wonder if I can get some kind of unconventional/accelerated review since at this point my reports have been in touch with my skip level and are definitely on board with me getting promoted. It helps that the company is having very noticeable retention issues with lots of big names leaving.
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Sep 27, 2021 17:59
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Ensign Expendable posted:
How does that help?
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Sep 27, 2021 18:27
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Just put in my notice (3 wks in this case), and don’t feel great about it. My manager and team were good just the new opportunity is really interesting and pays way way (almost 3x) more. I am constantly on the panic edge of trying to go back on everything because the status quo was boring but comfortable. But I gotta see this through!
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Sep 27, 2021 19:08
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priznat posted:Just put in my notice (3 wks in this case), and don’t feel great about it. My manager and team were good just the new opportunity is really interesting and pays way way (almost 3x) more. I am constantly on the panic edge of trying to go back on everything because the status quo was boring but comfortable. But I gotta see this through! God drat, 3x pay bump in one move while mid career? That's up there as far as thread records, I would guess. Can I ask your industry/niche?
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Sep 27, 2021 19:14
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Eric the Mauve posted:How does that help? Makes them more likely to negotiate, I guess?
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Sep 27, 2021 19:15
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Inner Light posted:God drat, 3x pay bump in one move while mid career? That's up there as far as thread records, I would guess. Can I ask your industry/niche? I’m in computer engineering and going from a mid tier semiconductor company in Canada to a FAANG. Specific niche is system design. It’s probably really closer to 2.6 or 2.7x, not really 3. Still a huge bump tho! Engineering pay in Canada is pretty poo poo compared to the states, makes a huge difference. Similar CoL locations too (Vancouver to Seattle).
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Sep 27, 2021 19:24
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Ensign Expendable posted:Makes them more likely to negotiate, I guess? Makes sense in theory, but in practice it's just evidence they don't care if you walk.
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Sep 27, 2021 19:26
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Eric the Mauve posted:Makes sense in theory, but in practice it's just evidence they don't care if you walk. Agreeing with this, I didn’t get any questions about what it would take to keep me. Even some critical designers who left a few months ago had the manager come back with a +15% increase at best which was laughable given how low our pay is by industry standards already.
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Sep 27, 2021 19:31
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I need advice about getting promoted. After I got my bachelor's I started working for a state government agency, and I spent about six years there. Promotions were pretty regular and strictly regimented in pay, so I just didn't have to think about advancement. But a couple months into the pandemic I wound up quitting suddenly, and soon ended up moving across the country. By the time I started job hunting properly I had been unemployed for 10 months, and was within a few months of facing severe financial and housing problems. Miraculously, I found the perfect job at the last minute: a big national privately-held company with an entire department dedicated to the same field I had worked in at my state agency, but nationwide. The position I applied for was entry-level but the hiring manager (now my boss) started me two levels higher, at the most senior position in the department that doesn't have supervisory or leadership responsibilities. It's been about four months and my responsibilities have continued to grow steadily. I've inherited some basic review tasks from the one other employee at my position, who just left after two years in the department. A couple of weeks ago my boss flat out asked whether I want any direct reports, and suggested they may be adding a third supervisor position to the department that would essentially be mine for the taking. I've clearly got a huge opportunity here and I want to capitalize on it as much as I can, within reason. However between being brand new to the private sector and being brand new to this particular company I have no idea what to expect as far as timing and internal salary negotiations are concerned. I'd like advice on: 1) how to try to maximize my raise if/when I get promoted, and 2) doing as much as I can to help my career without overdoing it / getting too stressed out / getting taken advantage of by my employer (by working too hard for too long with not enough pay) So far I'm really enjoying this job, there seems to be relatively little corporate bullshit going on, and I have every indication that my boss will continue to be straight with me. Most of my concerns are borne out of how fast this is all moving compared to the pace of my previous government job. I'm not a particularly ambitious person, and I'm not trying to climb the ladder all the way to the top, but I do recognize I'm in a very fortunate position and I've spent enough time now reading BFC to see that I can make a lot more money over the rest of my life if I jump on this now.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:14
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priznat posted:Just put in my notice (3 wks in this case), and don’t feel great about it. My manager and team were good just the new opportunity is really interesting and pays way way (almost 3x) more. I am constantly on the panic edge of trying to go back on everything because the status quo was boring but comfortable. But I gotta see this through! You'll entirely stop caring about 15 minutes into the new job. I'm not exaggerating
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Sep 27, 2021 20:46
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PIZZA.BAT posted:You'll entirely stop caring about 15 minutes into the new job. I'm not exaggerating Lol yeah I think you’re right. Been at this co for 8 years so it’s a bit change especially with the relocation etc. but being able to do it until at least January and possibly longer (hello 5th? Wave!) lets me ease into it.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:54
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You'll feel better halfway through your first day and you'll have aggravated amnesia of everything good about your last job when you see the first paycheck
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Sep 27, 2021 21:10
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That first paycheck will trigger a round of kicking yourself for not making the move a long time ago.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:12
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priznat posted:Just put in my notice (3 wks in this case), and don’t feel great about it. My manager and team were good just the new opportunity is really interesting and pays way way (almost 3x) more. I am constantly on the panic edge of trying to go back on everything because the status quo was boring but comfortable. But I gotta see this through! 17 years at my last company(ies). Change is super scary man, but I switched jobs earlier this year and it was 10,000% the right move.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:17
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FBS posted:However between being brand new to the private sector and being brand new to this particular company I have no idea what to expect as far as timing and internal salary negotiations are concerned. I'd like advice on: I fear that you're not going to like this answer and your first reaction to reading it will be "well poo poo that's unhelpful, thanks for nothing," but here it is: the best way, really the only reliable way, to get a real promotion (as opposed to a "promotion" to more work/more responsibilities for no meaningful increase in pay) is to take your newly enhanced resume and use it to go get a next-tier job at another company. If your current employer really wants to promote you, they will make it clear to you; information will reach you that such-and-such higher level job is available and you should apply for it. If that doesn't happen, you can safely interpret that to mean they're happy to keep stringing you along and making you do Tier X work for Tier X-1 or Tier X-2 pay. Update and polish your resume, get it out there, and get paid. And when it comes time to deal with other companies, remember to Never Say A Number.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:48
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TikTok has made me very thankful for this thread. Can't tell you how many HR people with huge accounts are making videos on why saying a number is the best possible practice. They get real salty about comments pushing back, too.
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Sep 27, 2021 22:09
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Got an offer to come up 50k + 30k sign bonus by acting slightly disinterested in the initial review chat. 
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Sep 27, 2021 22:10
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Don't just keep this thread's advice to yourself either. Me badgering my friend to negotiate helped her make one of the best financial decisions of her life and she still thanks me today for it.
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Sep 27, 2021 22:19
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ThePopeOfFun posted:TikTok has made me very thankful for this thread. Can't tell you how many HR people with huge accounts are making videos on why saying a number is the best possible practice. They get real salty about comments pushing back, too. What's their logic? Anchoring bias?
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Sep 27, 2021 22:34
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Xguard86 posted:What's their logic? Anchoring bias? Not sure. Here's one of the handles I'm thinking of. Someone pushes back in the comments, and he goes into more detail. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's giving me big HR red flags. 1) Making fun of applicants dodging the question & 2) Double standard that he expects applicants to disclose, but won't disclose his own numbers. Smells fishy. https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7003905845192838406 ThePopeOfFun fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 27, 2021 |
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Sep 27, 2021 22:38
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Lol yeah, this is poo poo. Mostly for what you said with the double standard. You don't want to waste time? Then put the salary in the req or name a number first. And idk is calling this dude a class traitor too much? Prob doesn't even realize it but this "just play nice, you're lucky to be here" stuff is very much perpetuating that crap.
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Sep 27, 2021 22:46
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ThePopeOfFun posted:Not sure. Here's one of the handles I'm thinking of. Someone pushes back in the comments, and he goes into more detail. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's giving me big HR red flags. 1) Making fun of applicants dodging the question & 2) Double standard that he expects applicants to disclose, but won't disclose his own numbers. Smells fishy. 'well then I don't see any point in us continuing this discussion so-' me: I understand. Have a nice day 
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Sep 27, 2021 22:48
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Ensign Expendable posted:I'm probably looking at a similar situation in the near future. My direct manager appears to be entirely disinterested in any kind of management or leadership, my skip level doesn't want to undermine her authority. I'm looking to jump ship to a higher title, which I know is going to take a few months to pull off. I wonder if I can get some kind of unconventional/accelerated review since at this point my reports have been in touch with my skip level and are definitely on board with me getting promoted. Anyway, I noted one of the longer time served middle managers used to get super super butt hurt that he wasn't being "invited" to act up but in my opinion, he wasn't saying he was ambitious and wanted promotions- compared to the younger people that got those roles. So I took this lesson and started saying "I've done x, I'm working on y with a plan to be doing job z next time it comes around" I then am in a meeting with the site director and at the end she says "by the way, are you leaving?" I laughed and said no not at all, I am guessing what I've said above has come back to you as gossip but actually I just feel ready to progress. That was when she said well leave IT and become operational - go write a training plan for yourself and we will do it. So my personal lesson is don't be scared to be open that you want to move on. That being said, I know I am well in favour with this particular manager - I might approach it differently with different managers
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Sep 27, 2021 23:01
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