|
WrightOfWay posted:I think becoming a human has it's own set of problems in that you are an undocumented person with no family, friends or shelter in 1990's America. Definitely not insurmountable problems, but enough to influence your decision such that you might see becoming a whale as a better option. Whales also far less likely, generally speaking, to one day be infested by a Yeerk and blow the whole game up.
|
# ? Sep 24, 2021 20:23 |
|
|
# ? May 25, 2024 13:58 |
|
e X posted:Yeah, that comes up a couple of times, where somebody voluntary becomes a Nolith to escape the constrains of their body. But it's always non sapient morphs, which becomes a little weird when you consider that it is totally possible to combine the DNA of different creatures of the same species to create a new genetic being, like Ax did with his human morph. I.e. Aftran could have taken DNA from the Animorphs and lived out the remainder of her days as a human, which to me at least would have been preferable to becoming an animals. Well yes, but you're a human. Whale in the ocean is a downgrade for you. (Yes. Yes it is. You don't get to post and you can't watch The Sopranos) but for a blind slug swimming in a pool it's a big step up.
|
# ? Sep 24, 2021 20:23 |
|
In Animorphs world whales are sentient and telepathic so the choice between living as a human vs whale is just a choice between living with one of two different alien species. Not as a big a deal as turning into a regular animal and not having any companionship.
|
# ? Sep 24, 2021 21:34 |
|
freebooter posted:This is a really, really good book and I think easily the best Cassie book. The series does kind of deal with this though, Cassie tells the group that was part of her reason for giving the blue box to Tom when she does. And later there’s a morph-capable Yeerk who just abandons the fight and suggests he’s deserting. Ultimately though the Andalites and Animorphs win the war on Earth and at the very least all the Yeerks there deserve some punishment for the whole enslavement thing.
|
# ? Sep 24, 2021 22:02 |
|
Megamorphs 3-Elfangor's Secret Chapter 1 Prologue quote:Aristh Elfangor-Sirinial-Shamtul was done with war. Sick to death of it. So that's a good summary of the Andalite Chronicles there. Chapter 1 Tobias quote:My name is Tobias. See if you can spot some hints that something is different here. That's right! Tobias mentions thermals, while in the other books, he almost never talks about them. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Sep 25, 2021 |
# ? Sep 25, 2021 05:17 |
|
I vaguely remember this one. There's actually a couple more that I own from that period besides this one and Visser, so I guess I was just getting really spotty with keeping up with them. The main thing I remember from it is a solution to a milhist problem that felt a little too secondary-school history pedagogical to me, even then. Though reading ahead a bit, this one has a fun gimmick. Beyond the obvious topic of the story, I mean.
|
# ? Sep 25, 2021 07:27 |
|
This is the best Megamorphs book IMO. It's also probably the book that most turns up the insanity dial to 11. Just good, crazy fun. If you thought running from dinosaurs was insane then just wait until Tobias cuts Hitler's throat. It'd be great if this started almost exactly like the first David book, with Marco suddenly freaking out when a new kid at school shows up rolling around the gigantic metre-wide sphere of the Time Matrix that he just randomly found at a construction site and thought was cool.
|
# ? Sep 25, 2021 11:10 |
|
freebooter posted:This is the best Megamorphs book IMO. It's also probably the book that most turns up the insanity dial to 11. Yup. I love this book; I also think it's the best Megamorphs book and one of the best books in the series. It is also thoroughly and absurdly bonkers.
|
# ? Sep 25, 2021 11:18 |
|
They do a LOT of weird poo poo in their career as shapeshifting guerilla resistance fighters but I don't think any of it matches up to what goes down in this book. Except maybe discovering a weird dying undersea human offshoot civilisation just off the coast of California. But that book is just dumb whereas this one is great because as insane as it gets, this book's story still makes perfect sense within the established canon.
|
# ? Sep 25, 2021 14:58 |
|
I remember liking this book a lot. I think I continued to read the chronicles when I was done with the mainstream series. A couple things from this book in particular I just really remember going into it, in a way I don’t remember for other books.
|
# ? Sep 25, 2021 18:47 |
|
Haven't read this one, but guessing "Melissa" is Melissa Chapman? I vaguely recall her being friends with Rachel back before all this went down, so it's conceivable that some alternate history where different people happened to be hanging out at the mall together that night would involve her.
|
# ? Sep 25, 2021 22:03 |
|
Since they've both been exiled to sea I wonder if Aftran ever came across David's haunting cries.
|
# ? Sep 25, 2021 22:49 |
|
dungeon cousin posted:Since they've both been exiled to sea I wonder if Aftran ever came across David's haunting cries. "Lol eat poo poo. I'm off to Alaska, later"
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 00:23 |
|
Chapter 2 Jake quote:Tobias came swooping in through the open hayloft. It's everyone's old friend the Drode! Also, this is a disturbing world. and I'm trying to imagine what it must have been like reading this as a kid. Chapter 3 Jake quote:“I’ve never seen you before in my life,” I said. I mean, I have to think Crayak would love this world. Whether the Yeerks win, and expand their militaristic empire based on conquest, or humanity wins, and maintains a culture based on fascism, conquest, genocide, and slavery of people they consider physically or mentally inferior, then Crayak wins.
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 04:49 |
|
Epicurius posted:Chapter 2 Yeah, I wish I could remember reading more than that scene I mentioned yesterday.
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 06:05 |
I have a thought on why that's a negative for Crayak but I'm not sure if it's a spoiler. I'll hold my tongue for now.
|
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 06:12 |
|
I will point out some of the changes that are maybe less horrific than war and slavery. 1, Melissa, who's probably Melissa Chapman, is a member of the team rather than Rachel. 2. Pong has just come out, In real life, it was created in 1972 3. Marco's mom isn't Visser One, and she's still living with him and his dad (and is apparently pretty good at Pong), Also, while not a change, we find out Jake is Jewish, which we didn't know before. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Sep 26, 2021 |
# ? Sep 26, 2021 06:12 |
|
Epicurius posted:It's everyone's old friend the Drode! Also, this is a disturbing world. and I'm trying to imagine what it must have been like reading this as a kid. Really really freaky, but at the same time, not as bad as you'd think, for reasons that are now apparent to me as pretty horrifying. A lot of the undertones and attitudes expressed didn't seem that different to what the real world was like growing up. The idea that a band of kids could be the last defense against an alien invasion to defend a world that was barely any better and wouldn't be able to set aside their own differences and biases was disturbingly realistic. Like, take this: quote:Poverty is widespread, curable diseases run rampant, and realize that this is a problem today! (though sometimes with "treatable" instead of "curable" but at this point we've lived through the point here) or this: quote:What do they care whether we wipe out a bunch of Primitives? and realize you've heard people in positions of influence and power talk like this. It's entirely Applegate's style to present an oppressive fascist alternate reality and have bits that are similar to reality just to highlight the point of how our own society is incredibly flawed. This is a really good one, basically.
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 06:38 |
|
Epicurius posted:It's everyone's old friend the Drode! Also, this is a disturbing world. and I'm trying to imagine what it must have been like reading this as a kid. I would've read this in late primary school, around ten years old, and we'd learned about the Holocaust, Nazis, fascism etc in school but they were very much A Thing Of The Past, so it probably gave me the impression that something had dramatically changed in what I knew was going to be a time travel story for this alternate universe to have happened. I suspect the notion that fascism was a relic of history was, in the 1990s, not just limited to kids learning a basic school curriculum.
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 07:15 |
|
freebooter posted:I would've read this in late primary school, around ten years old, and we'd learned about the Holocaust, Nazis, fascism etc in school but they were very much A Thing Of The Past, so it probably gave me the impression that something had dramatically changed in what I knew was going to be a time travel story for this alternate universe to have happened. Definitely. I remember thinking the genocidal space nazis plot of Wing Commander IV felt kind of goofy and anachronistic, playing it back at release. But it suddenly felt a whole lot more relevant on revisiting it a few years ago.
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 08:31 |
|
I know the main reason I find Animorphs and other stuff from the '90s nostalgic is because that's just when I happened to be a kid, but I think it objectively was a time of genuine optimism that was unparalleled in living memory. After the Cold War, but before 9/11 and the War on Terror/economic crash/climate change/resurgence of fascism/COVID pandemic.
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 11:07 |
|
This part of the book didn't bother me. I'd already been exposed to this kind of idea via Star Trek, so I picked up right away that this was Mirror Universe Animorphs.
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 14:29 |
|
Thank you for this thread. I’ve just spent the last month catching up with this series. Used to love reading this series, I read up to the starfish book which was my ‘yeah, no…’ moment. Plus as I got older I never got the scholastic book pamphlets anymore. Rereading this has been a wild ride. Just some stray thoughts I have to share. -Thermals. -Surely someone has picked up on the amount of people suddenly missing hands/arms. - After the Howler incident why aren’t they telling the Chee controllers to start pushing the ideas of symbiosis. Kickstart that evolution. -Why are they so awful to Erik? Work with the awesome dog robots. Like to help get their families somewhere safe. -Also, I had forgotten the last book. Christ; so the Chee know their secret along with what, 100 yeerks and their hosts??! That noose is tightening. And Chapman saw Ax’s eyestalk!? -Why aren’t they like planning to tell their families and at least moving them out to a rural areas. Like bring one family member to a remote area, use Ax and Erik to convince them. Keep them for 3 days just in case. Move the family to a secluded country town. Or even the HB colony. I know I thought about this a lot as a kid. - Still don’t get why they don’t morph other humans etc. -Why doesn’t Tobias turn back to human and then they use the box again? -I liked that they let the Yeerk become the whale. -Marco’s mum must be upset seeing her son ‘taken’ in the shark book. That’s rough for her. -Surely they could treat Ax better as well. Instead they just leave him out in the wilderness with a tv and an almanac. Perhaps get him some more books/basic computer. -Stop going to the mall. Nothing good happens there.
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 15:08 |
|
Chapman didn’t actually see the eyestalk. I misread it the same way at first, but the actual meaning there was that he would have seen it if it wasn’t covered.
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 15:22 |
|
Andrew_1985 posted:- Still don’t get why they don’t morph other humans etc. I can answer these two. They don't morph other humans because of issues about identity and consent. One of the things they've decided is that other sentient creatures have the right to their own bodily autonomy, and that if they take morphs of intelligent creatures without their consent, that makes them as bad as the Yeerks. So that makes them very careful about taking human morphs. As for the Tobias question, you can only get the morphing power once in your lifetime. This is why the two hour rule is stress so much and why, when Tobias was stuck as a hawk in the first place, he couldn't have gotten morphing ability again (in addition to the fact that the Animorphs didn't know where the box was at that point.) The Ellimist gave him his morphing power back, but it has the same rules as before. He could morph back human and be human for more than 2 hours, but then he'd be stuck in human form permanently,
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 17:15 |
|
quote:some women are forced to breed to repopulate the dominant white race
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 17:22 |
|
I think it is interestingly dated, based on the old idea of fascism where you absolutely crowbar ideology into everyone from a young age. Part of it is the need for exposition, but there is a lot of "as you know we must destroy the SAVAGE HORDES" for some middle class teenagers. In modern times we have discovered that actually most undisturbed peole don't care about ideology and the savvy modern tyrant can do whatever they want with minimal mental gymnastics.
|
# ? Sep 26, 2021 18:33 |
|
Andrew_1985 posted:-Why aren’t they like planning to tell their families and at least moving them out to a rural areas. Like bring one family member to a remote area, use Ax and Erik to convince them. Keep them for 3 days just in case. Move the family to a secluded country town. Or even the HB colony. I know I thought about this a lot as a kid. It's the kind of thing that makes sense in-universe but upsets the structure of what is basically a superhero story, with the balance between fighting the Yeerks and trying to stay on top of your homework and hide your secret identity. It's like how Harry Potter goes back to live with his abusive family every summer even after knowing that he has a vast fortune and a loving surrogate family via his best friend. It's also, though, basically exactly the scenario that plays out in the ending story arc
|
# ? Sep 27, 2021 00:12 |
|
Chapter 4 Cassie quote:I laughed. “You want to help. You. Meaning Crayak.” This is very much one of those one sided deals. "Hey, Crayak and the Elimist want you to help them fix this time matrix thing. In exchange, one of you is going to die. That's a very Crayak deal. Also, you have to wonder why they made the Time Matrix in the first place. I also want to mention again that I kind of love the Drode. He's so self satisfied in his henchmanness, and for a series that is remarkably complex for what it is, he's so incredibly cartoonishly evil. Chapter 5 Cassie quote:“This is insane!” Marco said. “I mean, I’ve said things were insane before, but this is totally, abjectly insane!” He pointed at the Drode. “You go back and tell that manure pile Crayak, and the Ellimist, too: This isn’t on us. They can fix this and leave us out.” We need more Cassie-Marco interactions. We don't really get a lot, and I think that's a shame, because as much as they're very different, they both love Jake and will do anything to protect him and that's the thing that ties them together.
|
# ? Sep 27, 2021 04:16 |
|
The solidarity of Marco and Cassie, both incredibly in love with Jake. I think when I read this one, it was out of any sort of order so it was my first introduction to the Drode. It's an excellent introduction of the character.
|
# ? Sep 27, 2021 04:52 |
I love evil trickster types
|
|
# ? Sep 27, 2021 05:52 |
|
Given that this is a megamorph, this is an Applegate book, right? It's interesting that basically no comment was made about how Ax fit into the group in the alternate fascist timeline. Did the kids treat him worse because he's 'other', and they're more inclined to think in that way? Did Ax have an easier or harder time integrating with them? Easier because andalite society is also pretty militaristic, harder because, y'know, slaves and stuff.
|
# ? Sep 27, 2021 21:49 |
|
jake's narrative has an off-hand comment about ax being "not one of us", which seems pretty telling
|
# ? Sep 27, 2021 21:54 |
|
Chapter 6 Rachel quote:“Not yet!” Joke's on Cassie. This is an SCA event. Chapter 7 Cassie quote:“Look out!” How bizarre does this have to be for these French knights. There you are, getting ready to fight the English, and then these two girls show up, transform into an elephant and a wolf and start attacking you,
|
# ? Sep 28, 2021 03:24 |
|
Typical English perfidy.
|
# ? Sep 28, 2021 06:01 |
|
Respect to these French guys for keeping it together enough to try to having a joust with a loving elephant.
|
# ? Sep 28, 2021 06:08 |
|
I guess you don't train to fight every day of your life just to flee upon encountering a rampaging shape-shifting elephant. (Also I can't decide if this series' commitment to onomatopoeia is impressive or ridiculous. Rrr-EEE-hhhuhhuhh! Rrr-EEE-hhhuhuhuhh!)
|
# ? Sep 28, 2021 06:34 |
|
Epicurius posted:I also want to mention again that I kind of love the Drode. He's so self satisfied in his henchmanness, and for a series that is remarkably complex for what it is, he's so incredibly cartoonishly evil. Eh, V3 is also pretty cartoonishly one-note. The only unusual thing about him is the alien living inside his skull with him, and we only actually hear from that guy in prequels and that one scene at the river. Bobulus posted:Given that this is a megamorph, this is an Applegate book, right? Yeah, I believe they were only writing the Megamorphs and Chronicles at this point.
|
# ? Sep 28, 2021 07:14 |
|
Fuschia tude posted:Eh, V3 is also pretty cartoonishly one-note. The only unusual thing about him is the alien living inside his skull with him, and we only actually hear from that guy in prequels and that one scene at the river. True enough. He does go to seminars, though. I guess the advantage of him is that while he's in most books, its in small doses.
|
# ? Sep 28, 2021 12:10 |
|
|
# ? May 25, 2024 13:58 |
|
Being the history nerd that I am, what I'm trying to figure out is what turning point in history the Animorphs have presumably landed in. French vs English in the Middle Ages has quite a bit of room to it. The obvious answer is that this is sometime during the Hundred Years' War. Agincourt is probably the most famous battle from the war, but while it was a shocking English victory in strictly military terms, it wasn't really a decisive battle in any larger sense - it went a long way to legitimize Henry's rule, mainly. For something with more immediate consequences this could be Crecy or Orleans - I could see Applegate going for something with Joan of Arc.
|
# ? Sep 28, 2021 15:51 |