Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Chevy Slyme posted:

I don't know that you even need to do this; just double down on much hornier versions of Vir, Na'toth, Corwin, Zack, and all of the other junior personnel.

It wasn't just the juniors who were loving

# ? Sep 28, 2021 00:27

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# ? May 15, 2024 11:18

The Last Call: Sep 9, 2011; Rehabilitating sinner

My excitement is severely tempered by the fact this is on the CW, they are not known for budgets.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 00:40

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

The CW let Crazy Ex-Girlfriend have four seasons and do a lot of experimental stuff, and for that I will always have good vibes towards them as a network.

Re that thread, here's the Facebook post, a format that's easier for me, at least, to read than a Twitter thread.

And if you'd prefer a forums post:

quote:

To answer all the questions, yes, it�s true, Babylon 5 is now in active development as a series for the CW. We have some serious fans over at the network, and they�re eager to see this show happen. I�m hip deep into writing the pilot now, and will be running the series upon pickup. The network understands the uniqueness of Babylon 5 and is giving me a great deal of latitude with the storytelling.

As noted in the announcement, this is a reboot from the ground up rather than a continuation, for several reasons. Heraclitus wrote, �You cannot step in the same river twice, for the river has changed, and you have changed.� In the years since B5, I�ve done a ton of other TV shows and movies, adding an equal number of tools to my toolbox, all of which I can bring to bear on the question: if I were creating Babylon 5 today, for the first time, knowing what I now know as a writer, what would it look like? How would it use all the storytelling tools and technological resources available in 2021 that were not on hand then? How can it be used to reflect the world in which we live, and the questions we are asking and confronting every day? Fans regularly point out how prescient the show was and is of our current world; it would be fun to take a shot at looking further down the road.

So we will not be retelling the same story in the same way because of what Heraclitus said about the river. There would be no fun and no surprises. Better to go the way of Westworld or Battlestar Galactica where you take the original elements that are evergreens and put them in a blender with a ton of new, challenging ideas, to create something both fresh and familiar.

To those who have asked why we�re not just doing a continuation�for a network series like this, it can�t be done because over half our cast are still stubbornly on the other side of the Rim. How do you telling continuing story of our original Londo without the original Vir? Or G�Kar? How do you tell Sheridan�s story without Delenn? Or the story of B5 without Franklin? Garibaldi? Zack?

The original Babylon 5 was ridiculously innovative: the first to use CGI to create ships and characters, and among the very first to shoot widescreen with a vigorous 5.1 mix. Most of all, for the first time, Babylon 5 introduced viewers accustomed to episodic television to the concept of a five-year arc with a pre-planned beginning, middle and end�creating a brand new paradigm for television storytelling that has subsequently become the norm. That tradition for innovation will continue in this new iteration, and I hope to create additional new forms of storytelling that will further push the television medium to the edge of what�s possible.

Let me conclude by just saying how supportive and enthusiastic everyone at the CW has been and is being with this project. They understand the unique position Babylon 5 occupies both in television and with its legions of fans, and are doing everything they can to ensure the maximum in creative freedom, a new story that will bring in new viewers while honoring all that has come before.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 00:53

Horizon Burning: Oct 23, 2019

The Last Call posted:

My excitement is severely tempered by the fact this is on the CW, they are not known for budgets.

well i mean neither was the original.......

given the level of JMS' involvement, i'm pretty interested in this project

Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Sep 28, 2021

# ? Sep 28, 2021 00:55

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

The Last Call posted:

My excitement is severely tempered by the fact this is on the CW, they are not known for budgets.

They can't be that much worse then SyFy and BSG looked fine for the most part.

Horizon Burning posted:

well i mean neither was the original.......

given the level of JMS' involvement, i'm pretty interested in this project

famously this was a big part of the casting process, JMS went for actors who had some issues that kept them from getting big paycheck jobs. Biggs was 90% deaf. Mira barely spoke english. Jeff Conway had a history of addiction issues. O'Hare was a great stage actor but definitely not the kind of actor you'd pick as the face of a franchise show in the early 90s. Doyle, well everyone said he was basically a chud before chuds were a thing, so who knows if that was a factor. "electric bleachers" is still such a funny line given that JMS basically said that it was something Doyle would say in real life.

Hiring Bruce was like a studio demand to get a classic leading man presence in the show. His cache with the suits was, I'm assuming, a big part in his little stunt in deliberately blowing his lines on the one blooper reel.

The story was something like JMS was getting grilled hard on his budget and they sent a PETN suit to set to watch and make sure he didn't run into overtime, so when Bruce screwed up and ruined the take, requiring them to go into overtime, the suits approved it and JMS was able to take his time and get the scene right.

pentyne fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Sep 28, 2021

# ? Sep 28, 2021 01:09

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

pentyne posted:

They can't be that much worse then SyFy and BSG looked fine for the most part.

famously this was a big part of the casting process, JMS went for actors who had some issues that kept them from getting big paycheck jobs. Biggs was 90% deaf. Mira barely spoke english. Jeff Conway had a history of addiction issues. O'Hare was a great stage actor but definitely not the kind of actor you'd pick as the face of a franchise show in the early 90s. Doyle, well everyone said he was basically a chud before chuds were a thing, so who knows if that was a factor. "electric bleachers" is still such a funny line given that JMS basically said that it was something Doyle would say in real life.

Hiring Bruce was like a studio demand to get a classic leading man presence in the show. His cache with the suits was, I'm assuming, a big part in his little stunt in deliberately blowing his lines on the one blooper reel.

The story was something like JMS was getting grilled hard on his budget and they sent a PETN suit to set to watch and make sure he didn't run into overtime, so when Bruce screwed up and ruined the take, requiring them to go into overtime, the suits approved it and JMS was able to take his time and get the scene right.

I know enough inside baseball (family in business, though not directly at the network) that the CW is one of the better group of execs all things considered. Some very smart folks there, who more or less get it. It's why river dale can do whatever the gently caress they want, the 100 was nuts but fun, and so on.

Yes, they need their 20 love dramas, and I suspect this version will be hornier, but that's not a terrible thing as long as JMS recognizes he's not the best at that. but Sense8 had plenty of sex that was not cringe, and that was because he co wrote it with the sisters.

Besides, Susan Ivanonva was one of the first bi/queer characters that was clearly underwritten in that aspect because of the times, so them playing that up well will work great. Giving a better actor the role of Talia will be great. Same with Lyta (not that she wasn't good, but get somebody modern to really sink their teeth into that role) and a ton of the other lesser roles. Also, so many creepy dudes could have a great take on Morden.

Also, even with a lesser budget, just think about updated CGI space battles with Shadows :getin:

Also, reading between the lines of that post, the huge pacing issues of things like season 5 are less likely to happen with this, or season 4 being so jammed pack, or season one being the "slow one." He mentioned Westworld and Battlestar in his post, but I think the obvious one that he's skipping is the Expanse. This is a reboot, but it allows him to fix what he things back on doesn't work as well. If the network does green light to series, I suspect it means there's super fans there, and they want this to loving work.

But until it's greenlite to a series, I'll still have my fingers crossed.

LionArcher fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Sep 28, 2021

# ? Sep 28, 2021 01:26

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

JMS is an Expanse fan (I think; he's talked about it a bit, and Ty Franck frequently talks about how great B5 was and its influence) so I bet there'll be some DNA in there, that he will vehemently deny. But I think Westworld and BSG were just called out because they were reboots that took broad strokes and did new stuff with it rather than simply retelling the same story again.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 01:37

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

Timby posted:

Considering how much of JMS' post-B5 output has been little more than tired B5 rehashes, I have very little faith in him re-capturing anything resembling the original spark.

JMS wrote Grounded, and on those grounds (heh) alone we should be tempering our optimism

Having said that, making it a remake instead of a continuation is the right move I feel, with so many of the original cast lost, it just feels right and respectful.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 01:39

Chevy Slyme: May 2, 2004; We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

CainFortea posted:

It wasn't just the juniors who were loving

Exactly. They were all already extremely horny. By contrast, the various second fiddles might as well all have been clergy.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 01:41

Action Jacktion: Jun 3, 2003

pentyne posted:

The story was something like JMS was getting grilled hard on his budget and they sent a PETN suit to set to watch and make sure he didn't run into overtime, so when Bruce screwed up and ruined the take, requiring them to go into overtime, the suits approved it and JMS was able to take his time and get the scene right.

It wasn't JMS, it was director John C. Flinn III. Flinn directed nine episodes in all; he also played the guy who tries to sue the Vree for abducting his ancestor and the guy who Lennier gets away from by pretending to have a disease.

Supposedly Boxleitner has never admitted to deliberately blowing the line and is noncommittal when asked about it.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 01:58

jng2058: Jul 17, 2010; We have the tools, we have the talent!

I still remember all the other "continuations" and "reboots" that were "in development" over the years. The last one before this was the movie, I think? So I'll believe it when I see a trailer and not before then.

That said, if it does actually happen, I wonder if JMS is thinking about reviving the Babylon 5 to Babylon Prime idea from the original pitch material? It'd be a pretty interesting swerve to actually destroy B5 and finish the series riding around in B4.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 02:00

Winifred Madgers: Feb 12, 2002

TK-42-1 posted:

gently caress

On one hand I hate this. On the other I feel like they might be able to remaster the original cgi as a line item in the budget for this one.

Please please please. That way even if this one bombs, we'll always have the best show ever made.

Midjack posted:

I don't think JMS would let it suck but revisits to old properties are kind of grim these days. If they're returning to that world I'd rather see a new story than remaking the old one.

This. I'd rather see the story of John and Delenn's son, or like someone else posted, a Crusade reboot. Both of those would have to pretty conspicuously exclude the original characters whose actors have passed, so I get it.

sebmojo posted:

yeah, i'm not going to put a lot of emotional capital into anticipating this, though it would be neat if it happened and was good.

Yeah no, it's far too late for me. I'm 100% in by default unless and until I see something that makes me change my mind.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 02:19

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

pentyne posted:

They just lost Supernatural and Babylon 5 is probably expected to have a minimum level of success from franchise fans, so it's probably a safe bet.

I would question if they can really do an older adult themed military sci-fi show on the CW though. I imagine there's going to be a couple of youngsters, like spoiled diplomats brats or station families who get caught up in the chaos.

I will forever give the CW the benefit of the doubt after The 100: a show that looked completely like a teenybopper show that brought the adult cast members in quickly as main characters.

That said they passed on the Dark Shadows sequel and the guy doing it is reshopping it and said he is "taking out the CW elements" they had him put in. So that is still a thing they do.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 02:29

Data Graham: Dec 28, 2009; 📈📊🍪😋

For once a lot of posts is good news

# ? Sep 28, 2021 02:37

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

Jurasik may not want to come back, though he might be willing to do voiceover.
If Mumy wants back, he'd be an interesting Morden. I don't think we're seeing him as anything except a human.
Boxleitner seems like a better Haig for me. Not sure he could pull off Neroon. If we get an Eyes episode equivalent having him be the guy who wanted the post as commander would be amusing.
I'd be curious to see Christian attempt Bester. I don't know if she could pull it off or not; I haven't seen her in anything for a while. It might be too much of a stretch. She's done a fair amount of voice-over, so maybe the station computer?
Tallman will almost certainly appear as a telepath at some point.
Jason Carter as... Zathras?

Assuming Bester doesn't go to anyone in the original cast, who gets the nod? Will JMS go with another older sci-fi actor who isn't working much these days? Nana Visitor?

# ? Sep 28, 2021 04:21

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Lupita Nyong'o as Bester.

Rosa Salazar as Talia.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 04:25

Delsaber: Oct 1, 2013; This may or may not be correct.

My mind immediately goes to Jeffrey Combs as Bester, even if Combs only had a single bit part on B5 before, decades of television conditioning will always bring his name to the front the fastest for sci-fi antagonist roles. Whoever played Number One/Bester's second in "Mind War" might also be fun to see again.

Boxleitner as President Clark would be a trip, as would Jurasik as either of the Centauri emperors, but at this point maybe he'd rather just be a human.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 04:33

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

I was thinking Combs for Morden. He does that creepy vaguely threatening thing well.

Combs is good whatever you give him tho. And probably up for it.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 05:11

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Grand Fromage posted:

I was thinking Combs for Morden. He does that creepy vaguely threatening thing well.

Combs is good whatever you give him tho. And probably up for it.

Walton Goggins. Combs for Bester.

And as far as CW and their budget goes...

In 1994 money, if made today, B5 Averaged 1.4ish million dollars per episode.

The Flash averages 3 million.

If they fund it at least as well as they funded that thing, it will have twice as much relative funding as it did the first time.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 05:14

J33uk: Oct 24, 2005

Delsaber posted:

Does it have the proper attributes

Even at nine inches I find the sixth time the charm

# ? Sep 28, 2021 05:14

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

Honestly, there�s no clearer present-day inheritor of the Jerry Doyle mantle than Adam Baldwin, loath as I am to admit it. The only reason he never wrote a book of his right-wing beliefs is probably because he can�t read very well.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 05:24

Angry Salami: Jul 27, 2013; Don't trust the skull.

pentyne posted:

I would question if they can really do an older adult themed military sci-fi show on the CW though. I imagine there's going to be a couple of youngsters, like spoiled diplomats brats or station families who get caught up in the chaos.

It's finally Keffer's chance to shine!

# ? Sep 28, 2021 05:24

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

I can't picture anyone else for Londo, G'kar, or Garibaldi. G'kar especially is going to be a hard sell to us olds, no matter how good the new guy is.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 05:26

Slamhound: Mar 27, 2010

The president of the CW kept Nikita on the air for 4 seasons just because he liked it.

And Superman & Lois has good production values. They could pull it off.

Story-wise, I really don't think they need a reboot or reimagining; The Deconstruction of Falling Stars covers enough time that they could easily fit a new arc in between any one of those vignettes. Start with the medieval segment and go full A Canticle for Leibowitz.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 05:39

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Grand Fromage posted:

I can't picture anyone else for Londo, G'kar, or Garibaldi. G'kar especially is going to be a hard sell to us olds, no matter how good the new guy is.

Well we really don't know how things will be changed. The main characters are going to be different in some way.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 05:40

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Grand Fromage posted:

G'kar especially is going to be a hard sell to us olds, no matter how good the new guy is.

Charles Dance.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 05:46

Kibayasu: Mar 28, 2010

They should leave Kosh�s shop as low rez as the original.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 06:20

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Kibayasu posted:

They should leave Kosh�s shop as low rez as the original.

"Why is it so...blocky?"
"The vorlons have been around a long time, even their ships are retro"
Ulkesh shows up with a modern CGI ship
"Kosh was....a giant nerd"

# ? Sep 28, 2021 06:42

CatHorse: Jan 5, 2008

henry rollins for garibaldi

Kibayasu posted:

They should leave Kosh�s shop as low rez as the original.

Yeah make Kosh run the Babylon 5 gift shop

# ? Sep 28, 2021 06:43

Chevy Slyme: May 2, 2004; We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

Grand Fromage posted:

I can't picture anyone else for Londo, G'kar, or Garibaldi. G'kar especially is going to be a hard sell to us olds, no matter how good the new guy is.

He�d never do it, but for some reason I have this mental image of Adam Driver as G�kar in my head and it won�t leave.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 07:06

Slamhound: Mar 27, 2010

CainFortea posted:

"Why is it so...blocky?"
"The vorlons have been around a long time, even their ships are retro"
Ulkesh shows up with a modern CGI ship
"Kosh was....a giant nerd"

Kosh is the Worf of Vorlons.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 07:19

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

The answer to "who could replace G'Kar" is to just write the character completely differently.

JMS has wanted this for 2 decades and is smart enough to know a reboot isn't going to work, and everything has to be something new while honoring the memory of the old. I'd be surprised if the character names were even the same.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 08:50

Small White Dragon: Nov 23, 2007; No relation.

Payndz posted:

Babylon... Six?!?

Or is it Babylon 5.1?

Babylon 5s

# ? Sep 28, 2021 08:56

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

Rebuild of Babylon 5. The first season is the same, everything else is different. Kosh remembers the events of the original show.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 10:12

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

With Claudia Christian as Kosh.

(This is not entirely a joke suggestion.)

# ? Sep 28, 2021 10:30

Penitent: Jul 8, 2005; The Lemonade Man Can

MikusR posted:

henry rollins for garibaldi

You misspelled Thomas Jane.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 11:19

Penitent: Jul 8, 2005; The Lemonade Man Can

pentyne posted:

The answer to "who could replace G'Kar" is to just write the character completely differently.

JMS has wanted this for 2 decades and is smart enough to know a reboot isn't going to work, and everything has to be something new while honoring the memory of the old. I'd be surprised if the character names were even the same.

Being on the CW, I expect some gender swaps.

G'Kar will be player by a black female.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 11:22

Erulisse: Feb 12, 2019; A bad poster trying to get better.

mllaneza posted:

Charles Dance.

Ok we get it, you got a casting gig @ CW, pls stop

# ? Sep 28, 2021 11:29

Winifred Madgers: Feb 12, 2002

Luigi Thirty posted:

Rebuild of Babylon 5. The first season is the same, everything else is different. Kosh remembers the events of the original show.

Throw us into the last Shadow War a thousand years ago and alternate with 2258 and ongoing, and make subtle but cumulative changes to 2258 as the war turns in the past. Then B4 and Sinclair/Valen arrives and the show is radically different. Kosh sees and remembers everything but no one else notices.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 12:50

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# ? May 15, 2024 11:18

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

McCloud posted:

JMS wrote Grounded, and on those grounds (heh) alone we should be tempering our optimism

Not calling this post out specifically, just that I see things like this, and I wanted to chime in.

JMS has done some questionable works, like all writers (*shoves that Marcus story under a couch cushion and sits on it*). The difference here is that he's not playing around in other people's universes - the B5 universe is his and his alone, and he wanted to make it for a very long time before it aired. B5 is his life's work, literally. Nobody else could write B5 stuff like he does, and B5 is his baby. Unless he's suffered a serious decline in his faculties, the writing will be the best that he can muster, guaranteed (and if anything, I think he's gotten a lot better.)

I think the real question will be how much freedom CW goes him (and it sounds like a lot), and if lightning can strike twice with the casting.

# ? Sep 28, 2021 13:14

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