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Mr. Nice! posted:I couldn't recall exactly why Emet and Lahabrea escaped the sundering. Elidibus is obvious. Yeah but making it part of the sounds plan or whatever would suck because the one interesting bit of Zodiark is that he did his job as he was made to do. The real conflict was born of the convocation and their followers desire to turn back the clock on the sacrifices their kin made.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:45
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Itzena posted:The moon zone is shown to have asteroids in its skybox, and there's more than one bit of the trailer showing blue-white starfall or a sudden offscreen blue-white glow. I'm suddenly thinking of when they were winding down 1.0 and Dalmud started to slowly grow bigger in the sky, without any announcement or explanation. I hope there are some very dedicated people who will be willing to keep an eye on the skyboxes throughout Eorzea (and Norvrandt for that matter) if any similar shenanigans start up once we start getting into the 6.X patches. Mr. Nice! posted:My guess is that the sound was not accidental and whatever caused it was likely also the source of the idea of creating Zodiark in the first place. This is why I take everything presented with a good bit of skepticism. I hear statements like "Half of our population agreed to sacrifice themselves to summon Zodiark", and I'm thinking "Really, though? All those people were just that selfless? There wasn't any threatening, or coercion, or manipulation, just an appeal to their better nature and an impassioned speech or two? Really?"
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Sep 27, 2021 20:45
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yeah but making it part of the sounds plan or whatever would suck because the one interesting bit of Zodiark is that he did his job as he was made to do. The real conflict was born of the convocation and their followers desire to turn back the clock on the sacrifices their kin made. Something gave the convocation the idea to sacrifice half their population to create Zodiark. Is it really a stretch to think that something may have also been behind the sound?
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Sep 27, 2021 20:47
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Beef Hardcheese posted:I'm suddenly thinking of when they were winding down 1.0 and Dalmud started to slowly grow bigger in the sky, without any announcement or explanation. I hope there are some very dedicated people who will be willing to keep an eye on the skyboxes throughout Eorzea (and Norvrandt for that matter) if any similar shenanigans start up once we start getting into the 6.X patches. The answer to this is Yes. Part of them were willing to do it and basically destroy their own civilization to save some life they didn't know. There's no point other than pure cynicism to think that parts a lie especially when it's used by the protagonists repeatedly as a measure of the good the ancients did.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:48
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Mr. Nice! posted:Something gave the convocation the idea to sacrifice half their population to create Zodiark. Is it really a stretch to think that something may have also been behind the sound? Yes. It sucks basically all agency from everyone involved and blows as an idea. The convocation coming up with the idea to make the star itself alive to force reality back in order is no different than the absolute bullshit Cid and Nero pump out or say the Ironworks in the 8th umbral came up with
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Sep 27, 2021 20:50
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yes. It sucks basically all agency from everyone involved and blows as an idea. So I take it you aren't a big fan of FFIV? I see that as the thematic background for this idea. Sound's Source:Zodiark::Zemus:Golbez. e: edited my analogy. Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Sep 27, 2021 |
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Sep 27, 2021 20:53
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Zodiark is a creation of the Amourotians in response to the Sound and reality unravelling, whereas Zeromus is the manifestation of Zemus's hate. I don't really see a parallel.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:58
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Zodiark is a creation of the Amourotians in response to the Sound and reality unravelling, whereas Zeromus is the manifestation of Zemus's hate. I should have put Zemus:Golbez instead. I appreciate the correction. There is something behind the sound, and that is the most interesting thing to me.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:07
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Mr. Nice! posted:I should have put Zemus:Golbez instead. I appreciate the correction. There is something behind the sound, and that is the most interesting thing to me. Yeah but I think the thing isn't to look at Zodiark or Hydaelyn, but rather that Zenos is to the Sound as we are to Hydaelyn and the Ascians are to Zodiark.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:13
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There was some fanart I saw a while ago that was someone's theory that Fancy Dan had some kind of bond to the Sound and it manifests as him always hearing it, which led to him wanting to just end everything to end the sound. It was a neat implication that the thing that caused it never went away and all and is a fun, if a bit obvious, way to explain him with a bit more pathos than 'local Ascian fuckin nuts'.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:24
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sexpig by night posted:There was some fanart I saw a while ago that was someone's theory that Fancy Dan had some kind of bond to the Sound and it manifests as him always hearing it, which led to him wanting to just end everything to end the sound. It was a neat implication that the thing that caused it never went away and all and is a fun, if a bit obvious, way to explain him with a bit more pathos than 'local Ascian fuckin nuts'. As someone with tinnitus I would fully sympathize with him.
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Sep 27, 2021 21:40
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Eimi posted:Yeah but I think the thing isn't to look at Zodiark or Hydaelyn, but rather that Zenos is to the Sound as we are to Hydaelyn and the Ascians are to Zodiark. This just makes me think that the sound was caused by Chaos.
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Sep 27, 2021 22:07
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Mr. Nice! posted:This just makes me think that the sound was caused by Chaos. We already kicked his rear end
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Sep 27, 2021 22:18
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"I, Garland, will play you a sound!"
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Sep 27, 2021 22:32
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ImpAtom posted:We already kicked his rear end We kicked the rear end of a representation based off an ancient legend of Chaos. Who. Hm. Opposed the first heroes. Hm hm hm.
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Sep 28, 2021 00:02
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Jetrauben posted:We kicked the rear end of a representation based off an ancient legend of Chaos. Stranger of Paradise collab confirmed.
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Sep 28, 2021 00:06
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One thing I really hope we get - or at least think it would be fun to get, it's not necessary - in 6.0 is a canonization of the fan theory that Elidibus' manifestation in patch 5.3 was based off of Azem, because it means, if we ever get to see Azem Remanifest, we might get to see a femme version of the Warrior of Light primal.
Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 00:11
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Jinh posted:Is there a place that collected all the info on what happened in amourot and ascian history like the discussion here in a better format? Like a wiki article or reddit post? I played through it but barely understood it all. So nobody answered you here, and it's because 'all the info' about this is actually loving enormous. There's also a whole bunch of instances where people kinda just forget the line between theory and fact. I made a video going over everything we know about all the Ascians, and it runs slightly over an hour. I didn't post it here before now because I expected it would be poorly-received here, even though a number of its points were hashed out and clarified here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umBwN0wQ_E0 It's not perfect since it was a learning experience for how to make videos, but it mostly turned out watchable. The most contentious part ends up being Emet-Selch, naturally; I tried and in places failed to be neutral and factual with him, but it's very hard to not take some form of side with him. He plays with a lot of pretty heavy concepts, lies by omission constantly, and a lot of his character appeal hinges on charisma and performance, so it's hard to not be swayed towards or against him.
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Sep 28, 2021 00:41
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Jetrauben posted:One thing I really hope we get - or at least think it would be fun to get, it's not necessary - in 6.0 is a canonization of the fan theory that Elidibus' manifestation in patch 5.3 was based off of Azem, because it means, if we ever get to see Azem Remanifest, we might get to see a femme version of the Warrior of Light primal. I think they're going to try their hardest to avoid any sort of visual representation of Azem since it would be hard to work around the variable gender.
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Sep 28, 2021 00:53
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Waffleman_ posted:I think they're going to try their hardest to avoid any sort of visual representation of Azem since it would be hard to work around the variable gender. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if that's the entire reason the ancients are weirdos who are against personal expression, working backwards from the need to signal Azem but not have to do more work regarding the players gender.
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Sep 28, 2021 01:03
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Eimi posted:Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if that's the entire reason the ancients are weirdos who are against personal expression, working backwards from the need to signal Azem but not have to do more work regarding the players gender. It's probably that but also like, What would the ancients even look like? Would they all just be Hyur but big? I mean the rest of the spoken are descended from them in some way so why wouldn't they have rabbit ears? Or elf ears? It's a tricky question and kind of pointless to really flesh out cause it would just fuel the dumbest arguments so safer to just make them weird Shrouded Blobs.
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Sep 28, 2021 01:07
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The spoken don't physically derive from the ancients.
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Sep 28, 2021 01:11
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The spoken don't physically derive from the ancients. Yeah but soulwise we do and if they Ancients were just Big Hyur or Big Elezen you'd have the dumbest fuckers going "Hmmm guess I'm the Real People around here" is my point. Like those freaks that get really really into High Elf RP in WoW. Better to stamp it out by just making them almost generic assets.
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Sep 28, 2021 01:16
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Cleretic posted:So nobody answered you here, and it's because 'all the info' about this is actually loving enormous. There's also a whole bunch of instances where people kinda just forget the line between theory and fact. I think the video's fine. Your Emet-Selch bias is showing and there are a few things here and there I'd disagree with otherwise, but what else can you expect in an hour+ video? And this is in no way intended to be negative. I'd watch more. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 01:35
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It's probably that but also like, What would the ancients even look like? Would they all just be Hyur but big? I mean the rest of the spoken are descended from them in some way so why wouldn't they have rabbit ears? Or elf ears? It's a tricky question and kind of pointless to really flesh out cause it would just fuel the dumbest arguments so safer to just make them weird Shrouded Blobs. Aren't they like WoL Elidibus or Omega M/F Which I guess doesn't actually solve the problem you point out that if you make a whole race of flawless Amano paintings, people are going to want to play as them and be fantasy racist about it if they get to. Better to just leave them cloaked. To be honest if they had such phenomenal powers of creation they could probably just shape their bodies to look however they wanted anyway
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Sep 28, 2021 01:49
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Waffleman_ posted:I think they're going to try their hardest to avoid any sort of visual representation of Azem since it would be hard to work around the variable gender. I mean, not really? Just make a boy-looking model and a girl-looking model and swap out which one the player sees. Chillgamesh posted:Aren't they like WoL Elidibus or Omega M/F That's kinda the impression I get. It's not that the Ancients hated personal expression, it's that it was something you did in specific contexts. They obviously had at least some encouragement for personal creativity and artistry, and even the one Amaurotine gently chiding you about your "fanciful costumes" still is impressed by them and is very polite and gentle about encouraging you to put on a real robe in public. I'd assume they had like, wonderful fanciful masquerade parties. The big thing is that they didn't have personal exclusive property. I don't think Amaurotines had a specific species phenotype, though, yeah. They presumably gave themselves the bodies they wanted. They're less mortal people than gods. Honestly the question to ask is how you get from to-all-appearances-corporeal Ancients to Ascian maskyspooks without physical forms that can only exist by bodyjacking but will persist until killed. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 01:55
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Chillgamesh posted:Aren't they like WoL Elidibus or Omega M/F I don't think WoL Elidibus or the Omega twins are based appearance-wise on the Ancients so much as archetypal depictions of Warriors of Light/heroes in general among the current races. Even if the WoL primal was based on Azem, primals based on actual people who once lived don't necessarily look like them. Actual Shiva is just a regular old Elezen and not a 15 foot tall ice lady. Besides, Elidibus doesn't seem to remember much of the Ancient days and Omega wouldn't have known about the Ancients.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:22
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That one seems obvious: the Ascians figured out how to give individual souls the ability to move into new bodies without some kind of fancy special ghost conditions, and since this is all kind of magi-science, modern-day Eorzeans - who even Emet-Selch grudgingly seemed to acknowledge were at least sort of kind of starting to show potential promise maybe kind of sort of gently caress YOU - had two separate, relatively small groups or individuals who figured out A. how to beat that soul-migration enchantment B. how to sort-of-duplicate it with machinery And they weren't even in communication with each other! I assume the soul-migration thing may not have been completely foolproof. But it wasn't just the unsundered, either.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:29
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wonder what the civilization that build Omega was like. wonder if they were interstellar enough to know about the Amaurotines.
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Sep 28, 2021 03:12
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Vitamean posted:wonder what the civilization that build Omega was like. I'm DYING to know why there were Omega like machines fuckin around in the Garlemald stuff we've seen in the benchmark and all
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Sep 28, 2021 04:10
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The “sound” was the grinding of the wheels of capitalism bearing ever nearer to Eorzea and we defend the world from Alien capitalists next expansion.
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Sep 28, 2021 04:14
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Vitamean posted:wonder what the civilization that build Omega was like. Probably not, they fought a whole war with a planet of dragons and Midgardsormr made it to Hydaelyn, after spending eons in space, post-sundering
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Sep 28, 2021 04:15
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I think the video's fine. Your Emet-Selch bias is showing and there are a few things here and there I'd disagree with otherwise, but what else can you expect in an hour+ video? There's a second one on the Blessing of Light. Picked up a bit less steam, but only twenty minutes long, so that's nice. Mostly talks about stuff that people here are already completely on top of, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oxf8lhQduk I'm starting to work on a third one on Nym, partly by request and partly so that I dodge the media tour; I don't wanna wake up during editing and learn twenty percent of a video on Garlemald or something is obsolete.
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Sep 28, 2021 04:28
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sexpig by night posted:I'm DYING to know why there were Omega like machines fuckin around in the Garlemald stuff we've seen in the benchmark and all There's plenty of weird hosed up bio/arcane weapons that could still be at Zenos's disposal given that even Menenius and Lyon were able to make the Diablo Armament. C'mon Square gimme a sweet-rear end Mecha-Innocence versus G-Warrior battle
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Sep 28, 2021 04:29
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jokes posted:The “sound” was the grinding of the wheels of capitalism bearing ever nearer to Eorzea and we defend the world from Alien capitalists next expansion. We have more than enough on Eorzea to fight, we don't need more.
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Sep 28, 2021 04:36
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sexpig by night posted:I'm DYING to know why there were Omega like machines fuckin around in the Garlemald stuff we've seen in the benchmark and all Probably just a FATE boss like Old School Twintania appearing in the ShB benchmark was. Makes sense too, I'm assuming the Garlemald zone will have a few fates that are "Ooopsie doopsie the apocalypse meant no one was minding the experimental bunker doors so the war crimes we made broke out!" ending with Knock off Omega.
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Sep 28, 2021 04:38
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Personally I would rather we keep Azem’s characterization in broad strokes. I don’t want to know more about them, and I don’t want the story to focus on the super special person that we’re a reincarnation of. The past is dead.
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Sep 28, 2021 04:38
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Jetrauben posted:That's kinda the impression I get. It's not that the Ancients hated personal expression, it's that it was something you did in specific contexts. They obviously had at least some encouragement for personal creativity and artistry, and even the one Amaurotine gently chiding you about your "fanciful costumes" still is impressed by them and is very polite and gentle about encouraging you to put on a real robe in public. this is a point lots of people seem to miss. Like the "community cohesion" sidequest, the patronising amaurotine says this: quote:I must say, little one...those garments you're wearing. They are your own original concepts, I take it? Clearly they must be, given their rather...singular flamboyance. It's not that you made your own clothing and expressed your individuality that's considered bad. It's that, from their perspective, you made your own clothing and then kept the concept entirely to yourself (since you're the only person dressed that way) out of a desire to be unique, thereby preventing others from benefiting from your creation, as opposed to sharing the concept with everyone else for the benefit of all.
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Sep 28, 2021 05:45
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megalodong posted:this is a point lots of people seem to miss. And notably, the other commentator in the questline is genuinely encouraging and just basically says "time and place, little creator. This is really good, but flaunting exclusivity will get people to judge you."
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Sep 28, 2021 07:59
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Probably just a FATE boss like Old School Twintania appearing in the ShB benchmark was. this is the most likely answer yea but I'd love if even just that led to a little more info on Omega, maybe the Garleans found something else from that world and all and used it to make off label Omega poo poo. I'm hoping the next big story explores the Middy/Omega thing and takes us to the landmass the dragons and the Triad gods and such lived in so this would be a good way to set those breadcrumbs.
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Sep 28, 2021 14:08
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