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I'm a bit late for the Exit Interview Chat that I accidentally started, but I guess I'll say my very simple take on it, based on what I've read. The key thing to remember is that exit interviews are for the company, not you. You cannot improve anything for yourself in one. All you can do is something potentially negative like burning a bridge. Also, even if you have good intentions to make things better for those who remain, the odds of that are very small. In fact, your departure itself has a greater chance of making a difference if it adequately spooks management into trying to retain talent. Just politely decline.
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Sep 27, 2021 23:06
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Magnetic North posted:I'm a bit late for the Exit Interview Chat that I accidentally started, but I guess I'll say my very simple take on it, based on what I've read. The key thing to remember is that exit interviews are for the company, not you. You cannot improve anything for yourself in one. All you can do is something potentially negative like burning a bridge. Also, even if you have good intentions to make things better for those who remain, the odds of that are very small. In fact, your departure itself has a greater chance of making a difference if it adequately spooks management into trying to retain talent. Just politely decline.
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Sep 27, 2021 23:10
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"I'm sorry, I don't do exit interviews, but my consulting fees are very reasonable."
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Sep 27, 2021 23:19
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My exit interview is scheduled for when I’m still on the payroll so no problemo!
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Sep 27, 2021 23:22
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Just got a job offer for -20% in comp! Wish companies would list salary ranges so we don't waste each other's time.
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Sep 27, 2021 23:31
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Eric the Mauve posted:I fear that you're not going to like this answer and your first reaction to reading it will be "well poo poo that's unhelpful, thanks for nothing," but here it is: the best way, really the only reliable way, to get a real promotion (as opposed to a "promotion" to more work/more responsibilities for no meaningful increase in pay) is to take your newly enhanced resume and use it to go get a next-tier job at another company. That's a fine answer. I already knew most of it, and I don't really want to live in this part of the country for the rest of my life anyway so job hopping was always in my future. But I never dreamed I'd find a private sector job that's such a great development of my previous experience AND wants to promote me so soon. It feels like I'm getting several years worth of career development (read: resume enhancement) all at once and I don't want to screw it up.
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Sep 28, 2021 00:01
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Dan from HR is a lovely HR person.
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Sep 28, 2021 00:22
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Parallelwoody posted:Dan from HR is a lovely HR person. He's really adamant about his position, too. If you look at the comments, he replies to critiques with, "Not agreeing with my advice is basically just stupid. It's like taking a physicians advice vs. someone who did some research on Facebook and took a class." And another guy who asks, "Is this advice for all companies, top tech, specifically FAANG? I respectfully disagree with your opinion." Dan replies, "Yes I consult for FAANGs. While I appreciate your respect--this isn't an opinion. I approve offers so I know what works - do you?" Obviously he's got himself a brand and a platform, so he's going to be that. Whatever. It's just such stark example of what's out there, major red flags (negotiating isn't a medical degree) and all. If I didn't lurk this thread so hard, I would have no idea who to listen to or why his position is wild.
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Sep 28, 2021 01:41
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Someone get Dan’s response to this consulting article on tech negotiations, specifically point 1: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/negotiating-comp
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Sep 28, 2021 02:11
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angry armadillo posted:We tend to get a lot of managers disappearing on secondment and that gives a lot of opportunities for people to act up in our place (although not in my particular field) My VP did straight up ask me if I'm going to leave already, so let's see what happens.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:35
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e: redacted
Vegetable fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 06:43
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We've passed on more senior people trying to fill a junior role because it was obvious they'd only be in the role long enough to find a better paying job elsewhere In an ideal world we'd just hire the right person for the salary and position, but they were in the middle of a merger and really they were looking for warm cheap bodies to keep the lights on (one of the many reasons I decided to leave) You'll find something else, don't worry about it
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Sep 28, 2021 07:02
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I'm an application analyst that supports a pretty popular EHR application. I had a recruiter reach out to me asking if I want to work help desk tickets, picking whatever schedule I choose for however many hours, for $$$$/hr. My only experience is working as a FTE for a company, and I'm keeping my current FTE. This would just be on the side. What type of questions should I be asking in terms of employment status and tax implications? I'm not too worried about benefits since I receive those through my current gig.
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Sep 28, 2021 19:07
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Parallelwoody posted:Dan from HR is a lovely HR person. Absolutely, and I'd go so far to say he's a bad person. Class traitor is a wildly overused term in the last few years, but he is unquestionably that. He's actively spreading information he knows will harm workers to help his standing with capital.
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Sep 28, 2021 19:30
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Do we have any proof that "Dan from HR" actually exists and isn't just an actor, or something they grabbed off thispersondoesnotexist.com? I mean it's a purely academic question because if he actually is who he says he is then he's obviously sold out to executive interests, but I'm still kind of curious.
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Sep 28, 2021 19:34
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Our HR manager came by today to ask me about leaving etc. He didn't seem too happy about my answers, but gently caress him 
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Sep 28, 2021 20:29
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Wibla posted:Our HR manager came by today to ask me about leaving etc. He didn't seem too happy about my answers, but gently caress him 
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Sep 28, 2021 20:37
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Sep 28, 2021 20:58
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Eric the Mauve posted:Do we have any proof that "Dan from HR" actually exists and isn't just an actor, or something they grabbed off thispersondoesnotexist.com? i decided to scratch the surface a bit and found this: https://danfromhr.com/
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Sep 28, 2021 21:29
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PIZZA.BAT posted:i decided to scratch the surface a bit and found this: https://danfromhr.com/ Oh, so he’s an influencer.
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Sep 28, 2021 21:32
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His gimmick appears to be him determining what you should be asking for in terms of comp and then charging a percentage of what he can get you over that amount. Obviously this means he also says you shouldn’t trust sources like levels, glassdoor, or just asking people who work there on linkedin. For anyone who knows the labor market like he assuredly does this is basically him setting himself up with layups. Definitely a class traitor
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Sep 28, 2021 21:39
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Looool gently caress that guy even more then. It's one thing to be incompetent in HR and God knows there's plenty of that, it's another to be actively loving over people for yourself. Maybe I should take my HR cert and start my own "influencer" bullshit that actually teaches people...mainly this thread.
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Sep 28, 2021 23:50
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Salary goons, please help me with scripting because I have never felt like I have had any negotiating power before. Now it seems that I am a skilled professional (what the gently caress) with the good negotiating position (genuinely like my current role, more $ would be nice but the new job would also cause a lot of moving hassle). All this to say - I know the exact salary range for a job (public employee, public pay range), which seems a little different than what most of you folks do. So if it gets to the negotiating stage, what's the polite way to say I need them to come in at the highest end of that range to make it worth my time?
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Sep 29, 2021 20:22
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John Cenas Jorts posted:So if it gets to the negotiating stage, what's the polite way to say I need them to come in at the highest end of that range to make it worth my time? Just say that? Explain how excited you are about the role/team/department, but that you need $X (which you already know they can do). If they won't come up, then you have to be able to accept the lower offer or be willing to walk away.
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Sep 29, 2021 20:31
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PIZZA.BAT posted:His gimmick appears to be him determining what you should be asking for in terms of comp and then charging a percentage of what he can get you over that amount. Obviously this means he also says you shouldn’t trust sources like levels, glassdoor, or just asking people who work there on linkedin. For anyone who knows the labor market like he assuredly does this is basically him setting himself up with layups. 
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Sep 29, 2021 20:58
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Well, thread, I could use some advice. An offer letter came in! I just nailed and interview for something outside of my field that I have little direct experience in (its office work and for an administrative assistant position) Downside: They want to know by tomorrow, deadline is friday, so... two days to negotiate and say yes/no. Right now my leverage is that I seem to be their first choice candidate. I put off naming a number twice! The advice works! Here's the skinny. I'm not happy with the pay or vacation. Its at a small (20-30 people) construction firm doing boutique/luxury remodels. Mistakes: I did tell them I didn't mind a lower introductory rate during a probationary period as long as it had a definitive end date and agreed on pay after it expires. Complications: I'm the colorado goon and companies out here are required to put their range and benefits up front. The listed range was 18-24$. I wanted to ask about project completion bonuses (there were apparently issues with very hasty people mislabeling budget reports and causing cost overruns; it was a talking point for this position during interviews.) I'm not sure its appropriate to ask. Benefits are: 5 days per year paid vacation, +1 per year up to 10, available after 60 days. (This seems low) 60 days for health insurance. It is through united healthcare. I don't know anything about them. IRA match 3% after 2 years. This doesn't seem ideal. Sick time wasn't listed in the letter, despite being mentioned in the ad. Normal or no? My gut says ask for 48-50k and 2-3 weeks vacation, maybe a project completion bonus if its under budget/schedule (over runs due to previous people making haste and mislabeling things with budgets were a talking point during the interview, but I know its iffy). Is the usual 'counter 5-10k above' still relevant when you're not talking about $bigmoney tech jobs? For comparison, I think its a bit under market. The big city in this area has a wide range of positions (Denver, thanks to the Colorado goon that dug these up - pay documentsfrom 2020) i used them to find ones from 2021, its a little harder to read. Admin assistants seem to have a -huge- range and dailing in what I should be asking for. What I can say is the city living wage is around $18.50, so the offer is really for minimum wage +$2.50. (based on both a cityworkers program/law and the mit living wage calculator; though its not accounting for 2021 inflation) I could use some advice. Its also time sensitive, and they wanted to know by tomorrow. I know I want to negotiate for inflation-adjusted/annual COL wages given the new year is right about the corner, and for more vacation. I'm not sure what I have to offer in return, but this seems to be moving fast, and I know its dangerous to assume but I think I may be their top or only pick. FWIW, I caught one of their just-expired job postings for another position (project manager) in the 60-100k range, and so I think there may be room to come up, even if its entry level.. but yeah, I'm more or less negotiating for my wages after the probationary period. What should I do? Right now I'm reaching out for clarification on the sickpay vs vacation pay. TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Sep 29, 2021 |
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Sep 29, 2021 23:27
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Any body have any recommendations for a way of saying "hey the salary is fine, but can I work 3 remote/2 onprem instead of only onprem"?
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Sep 29, 2021 23:57
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TheParadigm posted:Well, thread, I could use some advice. An offer letter came in! The answer will be that there is no separate category for sick time and if you get sick you'll have to burn your 5 days a year of PTO. Those bennies are a bad joke. Very unlikely they will negotiate an inch on any of that, but it drat well justifies asking for (a lot) more salary. Bluntly, unless you're like on the brink of homelessness I would come in with a very high ask and be prepared to walk away. It sounds like a lovely job at a lovely company that's just looking to exploit people, to be honest. Mustache Ride posted:Any body have any recommendations for a way of saying "hey the salary is fine, but can I work 3 remote/2 onprem instead of only onprem"? The answer to that question will almost certainly be no. That is really something you should be establishing before you get to the point of an offer, unless you have solid information that it's something that particular company is willing to negotiate. When negotiating, don't ask for permission. Don't phrase things as questions. e.g. don't say "can I work 3 days out of 5 remotely?", say "I'm satisfied with the salary but I need 3 days a week to be remote" and leave it there for them to respond. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2021 00:16
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Eric the Mauve posted:Those bennies are a bad joke. Very unlikely they will negotiate an inch on any of that, but it drat well justifies asking for (a lot) more salary. how much are we talking here? like double, or like 45-50%? And thanks. When does 401k matching usually start at real jobs? after the probationary period? the 1 year mark?
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Sep 30, 2021 00:32
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TheParadigm posted:how much are we talking here? like double, or like 45-50%? More like immediately.
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Sep 30, 2021 00:39
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TheParadigm posted:When does 401k matching usually start at real jobs? after the probationary period? the 1 year mark? Immediately. Everything kicks in day 1 at my very large company. Day 1 health insurance, access to your PTO, 401k match. We have a 2:1 match though that takes 2 years to vest though which isn’t ideal.
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Sep 30, 2021 00:43
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Same here. Had some jobs that had health insurance wait 30 days, but otherwise everything is day 1. I'm in tech though, so I might be spoiled a bit.
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Sep 30, 2021 00:55
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TheParadigm posted:how much are we talking here? like double, or like 45-50%? What were you planning to ask for? I mean if the posted range is $18-24/hr I would ask for $24 and settle for not a penny less--but I'm not sure I would want that job even at $24/hr. But I'm not you and don't live where you live. Unless you have no palatable alternatives at all, I wouldn't want that job if I were you. You should work out exactly how high a wage would actually make you enthusiastic to take that job at that lovely company, and ask for that, IMO. "The benefits are unfortunately well below what I expected, so the pay would have to be $X for this to make sense for me" is the kind of language you should use.
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Sep 30, 2021 01:02
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Eric the Mauve posted:What were you planning to ask for? I mean if the posted range is $18-24/hr I would ask for $24 and settle for not a penny less--but I'm not sure I would want that job even at $24/hr. But I'm not you and don't live where you live. Unless you have no palatable alternatives at all, I wouldn't want that job if I were you. You should work out exactly how high a wage would actually make you enthusiastic to take that job at that lovely company, and ask for that, IMO. Lets see. I think my gut reaction is: The time pressure is there to force a snap decision and not researching the disparity. I think for my area the absolute minimum to get someone in the door and caring about a job, based on what i've seen poking around job sites, is around 20$/hr. (i saw a restaurant offering 26$/hr for a dishwasher, due to presumably, covid risk/can't find anyone/other fields being better) I -don't- have other options and am coasting on savings, but my living expenses overall are fairly low. I don't have to take it, but I DO want to get office/admin asst experience on my resume and to get out of my field. Lack of car payments is a big one. I think the median/50% of range offer is fair for a lack of experience but hit the high notes for team meshing, and the goalposts are on the lowball range by about 2$/hour for the area, gut sense. Health insurance would, through their plan, cost me $114 per pay period, and come to think of it, I did forget to ask if that was weekly or biweekly. Its a $3k deductable/$8150 out of pocket max/80% coinsurance, so I think that pegs it as a... bronze tier hmo. Disappointing, they talked it up during the interview as being really good. Thats in the right range for $228/mo. Putting that all together... I could tough out a 48k for a year for experience, but I'm also seeing that as a fairly commonpiece salary in data that will be 2 years out of date by the time I'm over my 60 day period. (at 3% inflation that'd be 51k) I think I'd like to make 50-55k after a year on the job. But... I'm also seeing job ads a city over for the same effective role with a listed range of 55-65k; and basic sit at a desk receptionist positions in this place are starting at $22 and up so...  I guess its a tossup between what i'd be willing to settle for, and what the position is worth? Is it better to demand better benefits, or just shoot for the pay when negotiating? My initial sense of 'reasonable' that I should shoot for was '$23 during 60 days, 2-3 weeks vacation, automatic col, and X amount after a year, when I'd be fully trained up.) X undecided.
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Sep 30, 2021 03:17
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TheParadigm posted:Lets see. This job to pay ratio doesn't sound great. With that said, a job is better than none when you need one. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for 55k and 3 weeks of PTO. In the old system you would work your way up in a company over years and vacation would increase. Now it is completely common to ask for them to match the vacation you would expect for years in a career. 3 weeks sounds like a good minimum to start. Don't forget; the worst they will probably say is "we won't pay that much". Negotiation rarely gets a job offer pulled (if ever?). Regarding the pay, you might even want to bump up to 60k. The 2 years of missing 401k match is worth 3k alone, and I'd ask for more because it sounds like there is going to be a lot poo poo to deal with. Chances are they will negotiate down from any number you go for. Are you happy with 50k, probably less than 3 weeks PTO, and "meh" medical benefits? Honestly, I'd completely dump the attempt at a bonus. This compensation package sounds crappy enough that you might have some weasel-word bs that lets them screw with paying out the bonus after you're an employee. Just send back the canned statement, "I'm very excited about this opportunity. The team sounded great, and I'm looking forward to getting started. If you can increase the salary to $60,000 and the PTO to 3 weeks a year, then I'm prepared to agree to the offer." downout fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2021 04:12
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TheParadigm posted:how much are we talking here? like double, or like 45-50%? I don't know if this is helpful or not, but I currently make right around 100k and even if I got a 50% increase over that, if it was coupled with the benefits you just described I'd probably turn down the offer unless they were willing to throw those into the negotiation too. While employers in the US aren't required to give *any* time off, most companies that offer time off usually give you at least 10 days the first year. 5 days (and those 5 days possibly including sick days) definitely means they are trying to rip you off. Think about that- if you want to take a long weekend and take a Friday off, after that one day, you already can't take a full week of vacation until the next work year. That's ridiculous (even though it is, disgustingly, 100% legal).
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Sep 30, 2021 14:28
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TheParadigm posted:Lets see. I'd guess the time pressure is that they legitimately want to get someone hired quickly rather than they're particularly trying to pressure you into taking less. The good news with that interpretation is that maybe you have some good leverage to negotiate, but the bad news might be that they're starting in a headspace of what is reasonable that is pretty far from what you want. Go ahead and ask for what you want but I think you need to be prepared for them to not budge on anything except maybe pay. Though hey, if it doesn't work out you can walk away with the confidence of knowing that you nailed the interview so you're doing something right, and you now have at least an idea of a minimum offer you can expect for that sort of thing.
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Sep 30, 2021 16:06
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downout posted:Regarding the pay, you might even want to bump up to 60k. The 2 years of missing 401k match is worth 3k alone, and I'd ask for more because it sounds like there is going to be a lot poo poo to deal with. Chances are they will negotiate down from any number you go for. Are you happy with 50k, probably less than 3 weeks PTO, and "meh" medical benefits? Thanks. Do you rephrase the salary to hourly, or just keep it at the x per year verbage? 5 days (and those 5 days possibly including sick days) definitely means they are trying to rip you off. Think about that- if you want to take a long weekend and take a Friday off, after that one day, you already can't take a full week of vacation until the next work year. That's ridiculous (even though it is, disgustingly, 100% legal). m0therfux0r posted:5 days (and those 5 days possibly including sick days) definitely means they are trying to rip you off. Think about that- if you want to take a long weekend and take a Friday off, after that one day, you already can't take a full week of vacation until the next work year. That's ridiculous (even though it is, disgustingly, 100% legal). I sent an email last night asking about the PTO/sick day split (its supposed to be seperate, per their ad) and haven't heard back. Wait for a follow up, or just drop the demands? I have a feeling that they don't want to go up to 60k/2-3 weeks vacation - is this part of the negotiation dance where you ask for more and negotiate down to acceptable levels? follow up question, re, etiquette: if you say the 'I'll sign today for _x_' treatment, and they accept, do you actually go and sign/scan the offer letter, or is an email saying you accept enough. Do you sign the original or make them issue a new one? TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2021 16:07
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Ask for what it would take to get to instant yes. They will do what they can to get there or hold firm and you can make a decision based on that. Either way, it's better than wondering whether you could've gotten more. nthing that those benefits are hot garbo, in any case. quote:follow up question, re, etiquette: if you say the 'I'll sign today for _x_' treatment, and they accept, do you actually go and sign/scan the offer letter, or is an email saying you accept enough. Do you sign the original or make them issue a new one? Do not sign anything unless it is the offer you want to accept. An email should be sufficient but for the love of god do not sign off on the original letter with worse offer
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Sep 30, 2021 16:13
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You make them issue a new one with the exact numbers you negotiated. Don't sign something that isn't correct. And lol don't sign on those benefits good God that's miserable.
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Sep 30, 2021 16:17
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