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Zeta Taskforce posted:Sure, between the hours of 11 am and 3 pm it would be totally economical. Maybe even better than economical during the times when solar farms are curtailing production because there is too much supply, not enough demand. The problem is that if you're going to go through the effort and expense of building out a steel factory you will want to run it when its cloudy, rainy, winter, dark, etc and coal burns just fine all the time. we've never even drilled a 10-mile deep hole, ever, anywhere
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Sep 30, 2021 03:42
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Ynglaur posted:Do wells require significant maintenance or are they mostly capex? If the cost to run is low enough it still mastiff make economic sense for those few companies willing to look more than a quarter or two ahead. Depends on the well type. It is my understanding that something like a tar sand well for oil has a high up front cost so price per barrel needs to be in the mid 100s to be viable to start. But then keeping the well open and productive so once you have it flowing price per barrel can drop dramatically in relative terms and you can still turn profit on the extraction.
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Sep 30, 2021 03:44
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mediaphage posted:we've never even drilled a 10-mile deep hole, ever, anywhere I stand corrected. The Kola superdeep borehole made it to about 7.6 miles. I misread what the deepest oil well was, it turns out most of the drilling was horizontal. I still have no idea how far down you would have to drill into a random spot on the earth to get to super hot rocks, but it is clearly less than 10 miles. You would have a bit of an advantage drilling a geothermal well over drilling an oil well since you could drill literally anywhere, with oil wells the most complicated thing is to figure out where to drill and the success rate is not 100%. However comparing a deep geothermal well vs an oil well, the amount of economic benefit to the owner has to be much, much greater for the oil well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole
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Sep 30, 2021 05:01
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I used to know a lot about EGS stuff, been awhile since I looked into it much, but I will say this - there are a lot of spots where there is significant heat reservoirs that are only 3-6 kilometers down and the vast majority of the earth has significant heat reserves less than 11 kilometers down. A lot of Australia for example has quartz formations that retain the heat and significant amounts of it generated by natural occurring radioactivity, the US also has a lot of heat relatively close to the surface too. To my understanding the main problems are: - high initial investment cost that is only slowly recouped (offset by the fact that once it's up and running the costs are very low) which could be fixed through government spending; - sometimes heat wells can be exhausted when the discharge rate exceeds the recharge rate (this is only sometimes a problem and there are solutions including drilling multiple wells and using them in sequence while they recharge); - seismic stuff which was always a nonsense concern really - any triggered earthquakes tend to be of low magnitude and have only rarely caused even minor damage to structures. Plus gas and oil do the same thing on a greater scale and this has never stopped them; - fracturing to make the well work can sometimes go awry requiring a new well to be drilled or expensive fixes On the other hand you have a method of power generation that provides base load at all hours of the day and night and under all conditions, uses a very small amount of land, if you use dual cycle or other methods can be incredibly water efficient particularly since the relatively low operating temperatures don't require much cooling. Provided it's done carefully enhanced geothermal systems have great potential but desperately need funding to improve the tech and to get up and running. The amount of potentially available power though is astounding - enough to run everything for thousands of years with very little to no emissions.
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Sep 30, 2021 06:47
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I'm not an expert on geothermal, but wrt to questions about depth versus energy production, there's currently a project ongoing in Finland where they're building a pilot facility with a 6,5 kilometer well depth. At least at the time they were announcing the project it was supposed to be the deepest geothermal heat production plant in the world. They claim "up to 40 MW of energy" as the production. Finnish bedrock is pretty hard but also very stable, which I'd guess makes drilling a bit harder. They've currently finished drilling and the plant is supposed to start production in early 2022, so I guess we'll find out pretty soon how well it works in reality and what the actual production is.
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Sep 30, 2021 06:57
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Qtamo posted:I'm not an expert on geothermal, but wrt to questions about depth versus energy production, there's currently a project ongoing in Finland where they're building a pilot facility with a 6,5 kilometer well depth. At least at the time they were announcing the project it was supposed to be the deepest geothermal heat production plant in the world. They claim "up to 40 MW of energy" as the production. Finnish bedrock is pretty hard but also very stable, which I'd guess makes drilling a bit harder. They've currently finished drilling and the plant is supposed to start production in early 2022, so I guess we'll find out pretty soon how well it works in reality and what the actual production is. Denmark has it's first geothermal project in the works as well. Maersk used to run oil and gas rigs in the North Sea but sold it off and now wants to use that expertise to do geothermal. It's for district heating though. They're cagey about it but they're actively building infrastructure so it's more than a hypothetical.
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Sep 30, 2021 07:14
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Maybe this is a dumb question but I know gently caress and all about the geophysics involved, so, uh, how much geothermal power can we safely use before we start cooling the core and loving up the magnetosphere?
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Sep 30, 2021 07:52
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The Earth contains such a substantial amount of heat it's not an issue on current human scales for the next hundred years, even if we switched all current power demand to geothermal. Like tiny fractions of a fraction of a fraction of a percent. Since most of the Earth's internal heat is assumed to come from radioactive decay it is effectively like nuclear energy without the waste problem, because all the waste is a magma slurry way way below us.
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Sep 30, 2021 08:13
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CommieGIR posted:https://twitter.com/VICENews/status/1441026971509661700?s=20 Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" 
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Sep 30, 2021 09:36
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Any talk about freaking drilling massive holes in the earth just seems like what just about every government on Earth is doing re climate change : fiddling while Rome burns. How long until people realise that climate change isn’t even the major problem we face? Less than 4% of the Earth is “untouched” by Man and we’ve already hosed the goddamn planet right now. Look at this: “Prior to the dawn of agriculture eight to ten millennia ago, humans accounted for less than 1%, and wild mammals 99%, of mammalian biomass on Earth. Today, H. sapiens constitute 36%, and our domestic livestock another 60%, of a much-expanded mammalian biomass, compared with only 4% for all wild species combined [9,10,11]. McRae et al. [12] estimate that the populations of non-human vertebrate species declined by 58% between 1970 and 2012 alone. Freshwater, marine, and terrestrial vertebrate populations declined by 81%, 36%, and 38%, respectively, and invertebrate populations fell by about 50%.” And we’re still going harder than ever with no plans to stop or even slow. When I go walking in my local woods it is eerily quiet and the hum and buzz of life which I’d expect to accompany me is GONE. I increasingly feel like someone left in a movie theatre after the screen is dark and everyone else has left. Even if Elon loving Musk invented a magic hoover to instantly rid us of the countless billions of tonnes of carbon right now and teleported it to Mars it wouldn’t change the fundamental problem that our modern society is out of control and the Earth is already dead. Depressing stuff but I think depression is a reasonable response to all this and the magical thinking that we’ll innovate ourselves out of this.
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Oct 2, 2021 10:45
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nah climate change is definitely the major problem. there are also just a lot of others
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Oct 2, 2021 12:26
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Yeah like I do not see how you could look at literally any other issue caused by humanity and not see that climate change dwarfs them all.
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Oct 2, 2021 12:52
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Sedisp posted:Yeah like I do not see how you could look at literally any other issue caused by humanity and not see that climate change dwarfs them all. It's more that climate change is less of an issue in itself, than a dire context in which other issues occur. War, famine, refugees, mass death, ecological collapse, natural disasters, eco-fascism, mass inequality etc., They can now only be understood within the contextual framework of climate change and capitalism
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Oct 2, 2021 13:20
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I’m not discounting climate change but are you telling me that, in its absence, we could just carry on “business as usual” ?? We are far outstripping the Earth’s ability to carry us regardless of CC, the climate just shortens the time limit.
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Oct 2, 2021 13:21
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Rapacity posted:I’m not discounting climate change but are you telling me that, in its absence, we could just carry on “business as usual” ?? We are far outstripping the Earth’s ability to carry us regardless of CC, the climate just shortens the time limit. Someone has a gun to your head in a building that is on fire. There is absolutely no way to view anything other than the guy with the gun to your head has to be solved first. Yes there are lots and lots of problems besides climate change and if tomorrow we solve climate change through magic those problems will still exist waiting to become dire problems in the coming century. Climate change however is happening as we speak. Of all the issues we face none of them short of a meteor that will hit the planet that we have as of yet not seen threaten to delete our way of life and the majority of species on earth within the next few decades
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Oct 2, 2021 13:26
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Rapacity posted:I’m not discounting climate change but are you telling me that, in its absence, we could just carry on “business as usual” ?? We are far outstripping the Earth’s ability to carry us regardless of CC, the climate just shortens the time limit. you can't just delete a variable from reality like its a video game. the contextual causes and "solutions" to climate change all 80 - 98% overlap with the causes and solutions of all the other climate change co-morbid issues like fisheries collapse and topsoil depletion and capitalism.
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Oct 2, 2021 13:58
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I’m not even sure what you’re saying there. I already said the Earth was hosed regardless of climate change and CC is just going to make things even worse. Of course its all interlinked but Mankind is doing a great job of massively stripping the land and seas bare without the extra spice that a rapidly worsening climate is introducing.
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Oct 2, 2021 14:12
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I agree with Rapacity, I think you guys are being nitpicky and missing their point. Climate change is a symptom of our society and the way we treat resources and the planet. There is no "fixing climate change" without "fixing society" and that just doesn't seem possible. I get climate change is an immediate threat, but even if we do solve it, it just seems like kicking the can down the road. Its just buying time until the next symptom of our diseased way of life becomes a threat. Yes, that has to be done, yes we need to buy time. But at what point do we stop slapping flex seal on the leaks and start re-building the tank?
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Oct 2, 2021 14:30
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eSporks posted:Yes, that has to be done, yes we need to buy time. But at what point do we stop slapping flex seal on the leaks and start re-building the tank? When humans become a different species or upon our long shot chance of mitigating climate change enough to maintain something resembling an industrial society we realize that perhaps dedicating our entire species to an economic ideology that requires infinite growth was a bad evolutionary move.
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Oct 2, 2021 14:33
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Sedisp posted:When humans become a different species or upon our long shot chance of mitigating climate change enough to maintain something resembling an industrial society we realize that perhaps dedicating our entire species to an economic ideology that requires infinite growth was a bad evolutionary move. Nah, the take away is just going to be "wow, look how amazing technology and progress is. We stopped climate change! Now let's perdue off earth resource extraction so we can import waste in new and exciting ways!" I think you are also agreeing with the point here. That even after climate change gets delayed. There are huge societal problems that exist, and fundamental changes to our way of life need to happen. People need to abandon their current way of life, and I don't see it happening large scale. eSporks fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Oct 2, 2021 |
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Oct 2, 2021 14:41
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eSporks posted:Cuz that worked with the ozone layer and deforestation right? You'll notice I included an or there. And the fun thing about global climate change is short of magic there is no solution that doesn't come with a complete radical overhaul of our society and/or hundreds of millions dead.
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Oct 2, 2021 14:45
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Exactly. We should be looking at how we fix the society that caused climate change.
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Oct 2, 2021 19:59
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yes we're really glad you guys have joined the thread in realizing that "climate change" is a symptom, not a cause, but lol to just flat out deny it's the big issue facing us
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Oct 2, 2021 20:00
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eSporks posted:Exactly. Okay. That's even more difficult to solve than climate change and any solution you can think of will predicate on industrial society being around in twenty years. So it seems like trying to figure out how you're getting to work next week while your car is hurtling off a cliff.
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Oct 2, 2021 20:26
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Shocking idea. We can do both! Addressing the societal consciousness will also create more pressure, incentive, and resources to go after climate change. Right now, the car is driving off a cliff, the driver is asleep, and all the passengers are waiting for someone else to fix it or denying it's a problem. Nothing wrong with trying to get those passengers to change their view, and if they make enough noise, the might wake the driver up too.
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Oct 2, 2021 20:33
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eSporks posted:Shocking idea. It's actually really hard to do both because meaningfully addressing climate change not solving it or delaying it just addressing it already requires deprogramming some of the most passionate activists on poo poo beliefs like "solar and wind are the future" and "just consume better"
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Oct 2, 2021 20:45
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Ecological collapse would probably still continue apace even if we magically solved climate change tomorrow.
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Oct 2, 2021 21:35
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DynamicSloth posted:Ecological collapse would probably still continue apace even if we magically solved climate change tomorrow. this is absolute gibberish.
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Oct 2, 2021 21:47
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Sedisp posted:It's actually really hard to do both because meaningfully addressing climate change not solving it or delaying it just addressing it already requires deprogramming some of the most passionate activists on poo poo beliefs like "solar and wind are the future" and "just consume better"
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Oct 3, 2021 00:18
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DynamicSloth posted:Ecological collapse would probably still continue apace even if we magically solved climate change tomorrow. I think you might be onto something here ... 
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Oct 3, 2021 03:27
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https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/latin-america-now-deadliest-place-in-the-world-for-environmental-activists-122245701923 4 environmentalist activists murdered per week in Latin America in 2020.
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Oct 3, 2021 04:55
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Arglebargle III posted:https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/latin-america-now-deadliest-place-in-the-world-for-environmental-activists-122245701923 There is a special kind of evil giving death threats to a 12 year old.
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Oct 3, 2021 16:24
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BUt NuClEaR eNeRgY iS dAnGeRoUs!¡!¡
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Oct 3, 2021 18:33
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This is not normal. Up to 20 inches of rain could fall in an area with an annual rainfall of 4.28 inches https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2021/10/shaheen-headed-for-historic-landfall-in-oman/ quote:Cyclone Shaheen was on track Saturday to become the first tropical cyclone in modern recordkeeping to strike the northern coast of Oman, perhaps even moving into the United Arab Emirates before it dissipates. Destructive flash flooding, storm surge, and high winds are all possible. The Oman government declared a two-day national holiday for Monday and Tuesday to allow people to prepare for the storm. https://twitter.com/anasalhajji/status/1444370150980005893
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Oct 3, 2021 18:44
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Zeta Taskforce posted:This is not normal. Up to 20 inches of rain could fall in an area with an annual rainfall of 4.28 inches 
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Oct 3, 2021 18:58
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holy gently caress this is the dumbest type of motherfucker ever https://twitter.com/sama/status/1444690488330571778 https://twitter.com/sama/status/1444690490469715968 that's called being rational and taking steps to mitigate the harm by not bringing in more innocent people into a doomed world
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Oct 5, 2021 01:15
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and then there's this guy https://twitter.com/then_there_was/status/1444694402467696643 ?????
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Oct 5, 2021 01:16
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A big flaming stink posted:holy gently caress this is the dumbest type of motherfucker ever Every single one of my high school students. (In a nominally Catholic setting, no less.) They know the score. I struggle to know what to say to them, to help them cope with it.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:20
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A big flaming stink posted:holy gently caress this is the dumbest type of motherfucker ever People like this dude are becoming more prevalent from what I've seen on social media, especially among (self-professed) "conservative" climate activists that declare climate change to be real and a major problem but the only way to solve it is through conservative principles. And wouldn't you know it, the real barrier to progress and mitigating climate change are actually alarmists and not climate deniers, and the only politicians taking climate change seriously and trying to do something about it are actually Republicans passing legislation like the Great American Outdoors Act, which does jack poo poo for climate change. This guy might just be an idiot, but there is definitely a lot of money starting to be funneled into groups like the American Conservation Coalition that espouse bullshit like that.
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Oct 5, 2021 02:18
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Bizarro Watt posted:People like this dude are becoming more prevalent from what I've seen on social media, especially among (self-professed) "conservative" climate activists that declare climate change to be real and a major problem but the only way to solve it is through conservative principles. And wouldn't you know it, the real barrier to progress and mitigating climate change are actually alarmists and not climate deniers, and the only politicians taking climate change seriously and trying to do something about it are actually Republicans passing legislation like the Great American Outdoors Act, which does jack poo poo for climate change. The dudes a VC and is on the board of a Modular nuclear startup.
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Oct 5, 2021 12:09
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