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Framboise posted:As much as I shrug off the RL as a lost cause at this point, it still amuses me that gold bordered cards are affected by it when they're not legal in any format (even commander). They're literally WotC-sanctioned proxies that they could and would still make money off of without affecting any competitive metagame (or collector value, for the hand-wringing RL defenders) but still allowing casual and kitchen table players to have "official" copies, if having self-made proxies isn't kosher with them. Gold bordered proxies demonstrate exactly how easily the scarcity problem could be solved, and will never be done again for that reason.
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Sep 30, 2021 17:34
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| # ? May 29, 2024 08:26 |
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new thread title
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Sep 30, 2021 17:40
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Sinteres posted:If the reserve list didn't exist, I'm not totally convinced that Wizards wouldn't find a way to create it even now. They have. Kind of. Secret Lair cards are a big "get 'em before they're gone" thing and while they're all reprints of existing cards (barring the TWD ones), they're still specially made cards that will never be made in that form again, and have some value for that reason.
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Sep 30, 2021 17:42
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The only way the reserve list is going away is if everyone stops buying products and The Professor/CZ folks make videos every week about bees or climate change until the reserve list vanishes.
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Sep 30, 2021 19:14
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I would totally grab some chinese counterfeit duals, idgaf
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Sep 30, 2021 19:20
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I grabbed some very nice Eldraine Adventure Themed fetch lands for a cube a while back, A+ would recommend spending $30 instead of $300 for my personal cubing use on I guess what are technically Playtest cards.
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Sep 30, 2021 19:23
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Actually I'm thinking it would be cool to get like a counterfeit set of dual lands or power 9 to frame and display
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Sep 30, 2021 19:23
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Silhouette posted:People have been clamoring for a gold bordered Vintage Cube for years but wotc won't or can't do it because I'm pretty sure the RL extends to gold/silver borders as well As noted it doesn't apply, but I would be more concerned about the art of the older cards. If I recall WotC had some lovely deals with art for older stuf like the Black Lotus and such?
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Sep 30, 2021 19:26
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Drowning Rabbit posted:As noted it doesn't apply, but I would be more concerned about the art of the older cards. If I recall WotC had some lovely deals with art for older stuf like the Black Lotus and such? A lot of older artists had royalty deals so wizards got new art that, assumedly (I am not a lawyer, or accountant), they have perpetual rights to without having to pay the original artists every time they reprint the card.
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Sep 30, 2021 19:33
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There's no reason your playtest cards should have authentic looking card backs. Functionally indistinguishable counterfeits are objectively bad because every one comes with a percent chance that some schlub is gonna get ripped off by them. If you're just cubing or whatever then your cards don't need authentic looking backs.
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Sep 30, 2021 19:39
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Toshimo posted:It does not. I don't have the post handy, but in the past year maro said that gold-bordered reserved list cards that aren't tournament legal would still violate the spirit of the reserved list, so don't count on it. Even though they did that in the past, apparently they have decided it is no good anymore.
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Sep 30, 2021 19:42
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sit on my Facebook posted:There's no reason your playtest cards should have authentic looking card backs. Functionally indistinguishable counterfeits are objectively bad because every one comes with a percent chance that some schlub is gonna get ripped off by them. If you're just cubing or whatever then your cards don't need authentic looking backs. pretty much where i'm at with it. heck, even a judge check probably isn't sliding your cards out of the sleeves to check the back
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Sep 30, 2021 19:43
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sit on my Facebook posted:There's no reason your playtest cards should have authentic looking card backs. Functionally indistinguishable counterfeits are objectively bad because every one comes with a percent chance that some schlub is gonna get ripped off by them. If you're just cubing or whatever then your cards don't need authentic looking backs. What if someone wants to play monkeys without spending 320 on monkeys?
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Sep 30, 2021 19:53
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All these fine, upstanding moral paragons mail me their Monkeys, please and thank you
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Sep 30, 2021 19:54
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Drowning Rabbit posted:As noted it doesn't apply, but I would be more concerned about the art of the older cards. If I recall WotC had some lovely deals with art for older stuf like the Black Lotus and such? Yes, and this is why m25 didn't use any classic art for some of the ancient reprints because they'd still have to pay the artists. Their original art deals are like by-the-card in perpetuity. They were really favorable to the artists and that's why they tried hard to change them all
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Sep 30, 2021 19:59
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Also why the mark poole secret lair with og BoP art was notable.
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Sep 30, 2021 20:02
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Standard is basically back to being unplayable. Alrund, Goldspan and Chariot ruin the format. It's was lovely waiting so long for rotation only for the format to just go back to stinking again
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Sep 30, 2021 20:10
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Rahu posted:I don't have the post handy, but in the past year maro said that gold-bordered reserved list cards that aren't tournament legal would still violate the spirit of the reserved list, so don't count on it. I have no doubt that that's the case, but more to the point: Gold cards were discontinued 17 years ago. They ain't bringing them back.
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Sep 30, 2021 20:14
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Standard is basically back to being unplayable. my dude have you tried notable dead formats modern or legacy?
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Sep 30, 2021 20:14
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Standard is basically back to being unplayable. I've been playing Orzhov Midrange and have like one or two losses to Chariot. It's a dumb card with W7 but just means you need to play more instant speed removal or artifact/enchant hate, which you should really be packing for their value engines anyways. The Goldspan into multiple time walks is incredibly dumb though.
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Sep 30, 2021 20:17
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ilmucche posted:my dude have you tried notable dead formats modern or legacy? their previous post was asking for $100 modern decks, so no lol
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Sep 30, 2021 20:19
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Standard is basically back to being unplayable. Artifact hate is pretty easy to sideboard for Chariot, but I'm not sure what the good counters are for Goldspan (instant-speed creature removal is easy in B and available in R...) and particularly Alrund's (just counterspell effects?) But this does seem to me like the same issue you have in any given release where there's two or three really good cards you have to account for in your deck. Am I missing something that makes these three especially hard?
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Sep 30, 2021 20:24
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ilmucche posted:my dude have you tried notable dead formats modern or legacy? My local LGS does only modern FNM and I inquired about budget decks a few days ago just to have something to show up and jam if I wanted to join in on that but I didn't dig too deep yet.
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Sep 30, 2021 20:25
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Leperflesh posted:Artifact hate is pretty easy to sideboard for Chariot, but I'm not sure what the good counters are for Goldspan (instant-speed creature removal is easy in B and available in R...) and particularly Alrund's (just counterspell effects?) Disdainful stroke is in a really good place now for chariot, dragon, wrenn, epiphany . Soul shatter is the only other clean answer for a goldspan that I can think of.
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Sep 30, 2021 20:26
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I was struggling the other night with someone who got teleportation circle out along with chariot, because I almost never maindeck enchantment removal, until I remembered that I had 4x copies of Plundering Barbarian and that I could actually chose his destroy target artifact ETB option that I use so infrequently I forgot it existed, since his job in the deck is to make treasure + be a 2/2.
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Sep 30, 2021 20:30
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Lone Goat posted:their previous post was asking for $100 modern decks, so no lol Ahhhhh right Lieutenant Centaur posted:My local LGS does only modern FNM and I inquired about budget decks a few days ago just to have something to show up and jam if I wanted to join in on that but I didn't dig too deep yet. If people are chill you might be able to borrow a deck for the evening until you get yours fleshed out. At my local club there are always people willing to loan one out.
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Sep 30, 2021 20:39
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Leperflesh posted:Artifact hate is pretty easy to sideboard for Chariot, but I'm not sure what the good counters are for Goldspan (instant-speed creature removal is easy in B and available in R...) and particularly Alrund's (just counterspell effects?) Answering Chariot still leaves the opponent with 4 points worth of power on the board and Goldspan Dragon very nearly refunds itself if killed with targetted removal. Only one color can interact reasonably with Alrund's and coincidentally it's the colour that runs Alrund's
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Sep 30, 2021 20:41
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Esika's Chariot is functionally very close to a 4 mana Grave Titan and that's very nutty in Standard
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Sep 30, 2021 20:43
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TheKingofSprings posted:Goldspan Dragon very nearly refunds itself if killed with targetted removal. I'm obviously very bad at this game so forgive me if I'm being dense, but it seems to be a five-mana-cost card that refunds a one-mana treasure if you target it with a removal spell? Or is the idea that they've already definitely cast it with haste at the beginning of combat and attacked with it, so it's refund two... that's still not very nearly 5? e. oh I guess you tap and sac the treasures before the removal resolves too, so you get 4 mana, to spend in that phase. I get it. e2. I'm confused about timing now. If you cast him during your combat phase, do I not get a chance to target him with removal before you get to declare him as an attacker? Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Sep 30, 2021 |
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Sep 30, 2021 20:46
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Leperflesh posted:But this does seem to me like the same issue you have in any given release where there's two or three really good cards you have to account for in your deck. Am I missing something that makes these three especially hard? No, there will always be a Best Card(s) In Standard, some players would just rather complain about them than adapt.
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Sep 30, 2021 20:49
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I'm sympathetic, especially if "adapt" means "run this one or two very specific other decks", or severely compromise the deck you want to run by swapping in cards that are specifically to counter those three good cards and otherwise you never want to draw (I play Best of 1, so sideboarding them isn't an option for me), etc. "Standard is bad" as a shorthand for "once again there's one or two Tier 0 decks in Standard and I don't particularly want to run them" is a fair take. If it's actually a shorthand for "once again, the deck I decided to build, be it a tier 2 or my own janky creation, loses 65% of matches to those one or two Tier 0 decks" then yeah that's kind of a tired played out complaint because that's... just how the game of magic: the gathering works, in pretty much every format, right? I'm content to run my jank and lose 65% of matches because the ones I win are satisfying and fun and even when I lose, I often learn something or have a good time playing; but if you want to win consistently in Magic, you have to run one of the small number of Best Decks. Yeah?
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Sep 30, 2021 20:55
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Lone Goat posted:No, there will always be a Best Card(s) In Standard, some players would just rather complain about them than adapt. Sometimes the "best cards" end up having to get banned because of how warping they are. Siege Rhino never had to be banned but was the best card in standard for a time. There are many examples of this. The issue is how much better than are than 2, 3, 4th best... etc. It also doesn't help if all those card go in the same deck.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:01
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Magic has too many formats tbh Magic has too many everything these days.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:02
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You can handle Goldspan cleanly by putting up a 5/5 Treefolk token with Reach.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:07
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Leperflesh posted:I'm obviously very bad at this game so forgive me if I'm being dense, but it seems to be a five-mana-cost card that refunds a one-mana treasure if you target it with a removal spell? Or is the idea that they've already definitely cast it with haste at the beginning of combat and attacked with it, so it's refund two... that's still not very nearly 5? You aren't confused, he was being hyperbolic. You always have an opportunity to kill it with instants before it can be declared an attacker, so nearly refund is just not true. It is a majorly pushed card though no doubt.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:09
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Lone Goat posted:No, there will always be a Best Card(s) In Standard, some players would just rather complain about them than adapt. I'll always remember Amy Warfield getting really lovely with me when I replied to a tweet of hers complaining about Winota. I pointed out there's literally a one-mana instant-speed answer to it (that hit's the card's "upside"!) and she posted multiple replies about how that's a lovely rebuttal because you shouldn't have to put such niche answers in your deck or sideboard for a single card (???)
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Sep 30, 2021 21:33
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Magic Underwear posted:You aren't confused, he was being hyperbolic. You always have an opportunity to kill it with instants before it can be declared an attacker, so nearly refund is just not true. It is a majorly pushed card though no doubt. It is fair enough that if you don't have both instant removal in hand, and the mana to cast it, goldspan's treasure gen and effect can put it ahead of you in mana advantage. It also being a hasty flyer is just very good, too. For my own part: I find I don't enjoy playing U much, I tend not to run much counterspell as a result, I play Bo1 to control my gametime commitment, and I've pretty much resigned ages ago to losing against premium decks a lot if I play ranked. So ho hum, another good card or three, doesn't worry me much. It's no Omnath. I'm not representative of this thread's population of Magic players though.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:44
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There are a ton of answers to all of the strongest cards in standard right now. Hell, the card I'm scared of isn't Wrenn, Goldspan, Chariot, or even Epiphany (though extra turn spells suck to play against). Memory Deluge is what scares the piss outta me.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:59
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counterpoint: there are a good mix of very good decks right now and standard is actually good
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Sep 30, 2021 22:26
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kalvanoo posted:counterpoint: there are a good mix of very good decks right now and standard is actually good I tend to share this sentiment. Yes, there are some very strong cards that are in a wide variety of decks that you need answers to, but there are a ton of different decks that use them. It's not like one or two decks dominate and there's nothing else. It's a pretty good mix right now. Yes, getting housed by super powerful cards sucks, but I can't name a single format ever that didn't have prevalent strong cards that you would roll your eyes at and you had to pack answers for.
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Sep 30, 2021 22:34
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