Deltarune: Asriel Weird Sciencing Sans out of the computer

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Deltarune: Asriel Weird Sciencing Sans out of the computer

grieving for Gandalf: Apr 22, 2008

Fangz posted:

Generally the way I think of the other humans is that some of them were adults, some were children, but that doesn't have to correlate with guilt or innocence - since willingless to kill is what matters, not physical strength. You can arguably infer various things about the humans from the items they left behind, so e.g. the cute tutu is covered in *dust*, which suggests that whichever that human was despite their cuteness, one of the more murderous ones.

...or it's just been a while

# ? Oct 1, 2021 00:50

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 10:55

ikanreed: Sep 25, 2009; I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

YggiDee posted:

Honestly it's never even occurred to me that the other fallen humans might not have been children. Toriel finds them, adopts them, they get loose and inevitably fall to the King of Monsters. Maybe it's the fairy tale aspect of it all, with Mt Ebott as a forbidden mountain that steals your kids and also the place where monsters were sealed away ages ago.

For all her apparent benevolence, I'm not sure if Toriel would have let an adult go in the Underground, given how much damage even a kid can do. Also, I think an adult would have better odds against Asgore.

There's also an interview with Toby Fox where he describes the victims of Mount Ebott as "several human children" but that's from 2013 so I don't know if that counts.

This brings me to a theory. Gaster's work with SOULs created save points that allow you to redo things using determination and the other SOULs didn't have a chance to redo their mistakes and a huge mushroom cloud of fire magic easily overwhelmed the previous souls.

Because otherwise, any of the 6 of them would have made it out alive.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 00:51

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

grieving for Gandalf posted:

...or it's just been a while

The use of the "dusty" description is generally used highly specifically in the game.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 00:55

somepartsareme: Mar 10, 2012; Diggle Hell is a Real
(Swingin') Place

ikanreed posted:

This brings me to a theory. Gaster's work with SOULs created save points that allow you to redo things using determination and the other SOULs didn't have a chance to redo their mistakes and a huge mushroom cloud of fire magic easily overwhelmed the previous souls.

Because otherwise, any of the 6 of them would have made it out alive.

maybe they were just bad gamers, i know someone who gave up at papyrus

# ? Oct 1, 2021 00:56

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Fangz posted:

The use of the "dusty" description is generally used highly specifically in the game.

There aren't that many of them, and they include things like Alphys science poo poo that she hasn't used in ages, asriel's photo frame, or toriel's basement.

Now I mean you can headcanon alphys being a textbook serial killer or toriel shivving someone in her basement with asriel's portrait but I think the intended reading is pretty obvious as 'Alphys has been spending more time on anime and hasn't actually been working on science', and 'toriel hasn't looked at that picture in a long time'.

(and no the photo doesn't have asriel's dust on it, we know where that went)

Tunicate fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Oct 1, 2021

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:04

ThisIsACoolGuy: Nov 2, 2010; Shaped like a friend

Late but this tweet made me think of the thread

https://twitter.com/ploppymeep/status/1443623474036084737

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:09

grieving for Gandalf: Apr 22, 2008

Fangz posted:

The use of the "dusty" description is generally used highly specifically in the game.

*nods* old stuff

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:10

Snake Maze

Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago

Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus

ikanreed posted:

This brings me to a theory. Gaster's work with SOULs created save points that allow you to redo things using determination and the other SOULs didn't have a chance to redo their mistakes and a huge mushroom cloud of fire magic easily overwhelmed the previous souls.

Because otherwise, any of the 6 of them would have made it out alive.

I doubt it. When you tell Asgore how many times he�s killed you he just nods sadly, which suggests you�re not the first human to tell him that. I think the implication is that the previous humans just fought and lost until they ran out of determination.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:13

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Tunicate posted:

There aren't that many of them, and they include things like Alphys science poo poo that she hasn't used in ages, asriel's photo frame, or toriel's basement.

Now I mean you can headcanon alphys being a textbook serial killer or toriel shivving someone in her basement with asriel's portrait but I think the intended reading is pretty obvious as 'Alphys has been spending more time on anime and hasn't actually been working on science', and 'toriel hasn't looked at that picture in a long time'.

(and no the photo doesn't have asriel's dust on it, we know where that went)

Alphys worked with dead and dying monsters, that's the science poo poo she did
Asriel's portrait has dust on it because monster funerals involving sprinkling the dust they turn into onto their favourite things. The portrait IIRC shows the Dreemurs, including the fallen human, together as a family.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:14

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Fangz posted:

Alphys worked with dead and dying monsters, that's the science poo poo she did

That's her mettaton robot building desk, the project she's deliberately stalling on because she doesn't want Mettaton to leave.

quote:

Asriel's portrait has dust on it because monster funerals involving sprinkling the dust they turn into onto their favourite things

Yes, and specifically, we know they put Asriel's dust into the garden in New Home. It was kind of a big deal.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:15

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Tunicate posted:

That's her mettaton robot building desk, the project she's deliberately stalling on.

There's no reason why that's not also where she worked on the determination project. It only became a secret project when the subjects stopped dying.

quote:

Yes, and specifically, we know they put Asriel's dust into the garden in New Home. It was kind of a big deal.

No, Asriel's dust is there because that's where he died. The funeral would involve his dust being sprinkled on other objects. His toys are also described as dusty.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Oct 1, 2021

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:17

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Fangz posted:

There's no reason why that's not also where she worked on the determination project. It only became a secret project when the subjects stopped dying.

She succeeded first try. No monsters turned to dust.

quote:

ASGORE asked everyone outside the city for monsters that had "fallen
down."
Their bodies came in today.

They're still comatose.. And soon , they'll all turn into dust.

But what happens if I inject "determination" into them?

If their SOULS persist after they perish, then...

Freedom might be closer than we all thought.

ENTRY NUMBER 9

things aren't going well.
none of the bodies have turned into dust, so I can't get the SOULs.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:23

Electric Phantasm: Apr 7, 2011; YOSPOS

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Late but this tweet made me think of the thread

https://twitter.com/ploppymeep/status/1443623474036084737

But Ralsei doesn't have the cool hat anymore.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:29

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Shrug. Some of the bodies could have turned to dust before she got to inject determination into them.

I mean, okay, sure, you can argue that we don't really know anything for sure about the fallen humans then and other things like the ballet shoes being described as dangerous are coincidental and meaningless, and that's your prerogative. I think it's more fun to theorise on the pieces of information that we do have available because it creates a richer and more interesting view of the game world. My original point was that you can't really assume the humans that fell previously were all innocent. Do you actually want to debate even that?

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:31

Magitek: Feb 20, 2008; That's not jolly.
That's not jolly at all!

New title

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:33

grieving for Gandalf: Apr 22, 2008

Fangz posted:

His toys are also described as dusty.

*nods more* been a while since they were played with

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:55

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:56

life_source: May 11, 2008; i got tired of looking at your edgy baby avatar that a 14-year old would be proud of

grieving for Gandalf posted:

*nods more* been a while since they were played with

The Fallen Child's "toys" certainly would be dusty :getin:

# ? Oct 1, 2021 02:01

Acerbatus: Jun 26, 2020; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

I think Deltarune characters are related to Undertale in the same way Majora's mask's characters are related to Ocarina of time's.

So you're saying Kris IS Frisk after all. :woah:

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Sans has played Undertale.

ed: at the end of it all, Kris goes 'This has given me a great idea for a game' and makes Undertale

Sans stealing annoying dog's role is super rude.

Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Oct 1, 2021

# ? Oct 1, 2021 02:08

Tenasscity: Jan 1, 2010

I just noticed, about 95% of chapter 2 is focused on new characters.

You see Undertale characters at the beginning, and at the end, but the meat of the game is 100% new characters.

It seems silly to recognize it now. Most people were considering Deltarune to be basically an Undertale AU, however, we are certainly seeing Undertale characters less frequently nowadays.

That seems set to change in chapter 3. Toby has said that he was happy about Deltarune being seen as its own thing rather than "Undertale 2" in a tweet recently.

It would make sense then that we had a whole chapter to really get to know various non-UT characters before we see them possibly interact with the old gang in the next chapter.

I sort of reminds me of when a popular show gets a spinoff. (Like Star Trek DS9) Where the creators lean on characters from the previous show a bit to get people invested before they let go of the metaphorical reins.

Tenasscity fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Oct 1, 2021

# ? Oct 1, 2021 02:20

super sweet best pal: Nov 18, 2009

kaleedity posted:

wellp, I was looking for something unrelated and found something new. The weird thing is this doesn't exist in my current end-game saves. I had to load a save before the last queen fight and to defeat her, at least after this recent patch. Now in the "real" world I have a third item, glass. When you INFO it, you get "There is a small shard of something in your pocket \\ It feels like glass, but..." I'm not sure if this is referencing beating all of the bosses, but I already had a save in the end game after beating them and I don't have it there. You can use the glass and you get a few different messages; when you're alone in the library after waking up :

You looked through the glass.
For some strange reason, for just a brief moment. . .
You thought you saw through your hand.

Afterwards, you get a different message if you're with Susie:

You looked through the glass.
For some strange reason, for just a brief moment. . .
You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly. . .
But when you moved the glass away,
You see her looking at you, smiling and making a rude gesture.

I thought it might have been referencing the stuff you bundled up in the library, but no, it's still there after you drop queen off. It's not in any of my prior saves with the same completion! (full recruit, safe Berdly, 2 defeated secret bosses)

Makes me wonder if the cool Susie who's been going on adventures with us is a fake and the real one's still the same thug who assaulted us in the hall.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 02:48

Digamma-F-Wau: Mar 22, 2016; It is curious and wants to accept all kinds of challenges

https://twitter.com/The_Hydroxian/status/1443507317027315713-

# ? Oct 1, 2021 02:49

GoldenJoe: Aug 9, 2006

Tenasscity posted:

I just noticed, about 95% of chapter 2 is focused on new characters.

You see Undertale characters at the beginning, and at the end, but the meat of the game is 100% new characters.

It seems silly to recognize it now. Most people were considering Deltarune to be basically an Undertale AU, however, we are certainly seeing Undertale characters less frequently nowadays.

That seems set to change in chapter 3. Toby has said that he was happy about Deltarune being seen as its own thing rather than "Undertale 2" in a tweet recently.

It would make sense then that we had a whole chapter to really get to know various non-UT characters before we see them possibly interact with the old gang in the next chapter.

Chapter 1 focused heavily on new characters, too. Before the ending of Chapter 2, I thought the Undertale characters were there mainly to hook in people and be background npcs.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 02:53

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

kaleedity posted:

wellp, I was looking for something unrelated and found something new. The weird thing is this doesn't exist in my current end-game saves. I had to load a save before the last queen fight and to defeat her, at least after this recent patch. Now in the "real" world I have a third item, glass. When you INFO it, you get "There is a small shard of something in your pocket \\ It feels like glass, but..." I'm not sure if this is referencing beating all of the bosses, but I already had a save in the end game after beating them and I don't have it there. You can use the glass and you get a few different messages; when you're alone in the library after waking up :

You looked through the glass.
For some strange reason, for just a brief moment. . .
You thought you saw through your hand.

Afterwards, you get a different message if you're with Susie:

You looked through the glass.
For some strange reason, for just a brief moment. . .
You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly. . .
But when you moved the glass away,
You see her looking at you, smiling and making a rude gesture.

I thought it might have been referencing the stuff you bundled up in the library, but no, it's still there after you drop queen off. It's not in any of my prior saves with the same completion! (full recruit, safe Berdly, 2 defeated secret bosses)

interestingly, if you examine it in the dark world (it's the shadow crystal), you instead get a description of the computer lab. either way, seems like you can only see through it once...? i wonder of there's an alternative reward for collecting all of them but NOT giving them to seam?

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:06

McFrugal: Oct 11, 2003

What happens if you examine Jevil's shadow crystal in chapter 1? You actually get it now.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:12

Son of Thunderbeast: Sep 21, 2002

Something about seam. I don't trust him

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:14

Digamma-F-Wau: Mar 22, 2016; It is curious and wants to accept all kinds of challenges

McFrugal posted:

What happens if you examine Jevil's shadow crystal in chapter 1? You actually get it now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwyAYz8k0TU

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:20

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

I heard a rumor that there's some unique crystal dialogue in the knight video room, but haven't seen any screenshots

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:20

Jen X: Sep 29, 2014; To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.

Tunicate posted:

I heard a rumor that there's some unique crystal dialogue in the knight video room, but haven't seen any screenshots

quick, someone in the thread replay chapter 1 and chapter 2 and use the crystal in every single room in the light and dark worlds

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:22

Neuronyx: Dec 8, 2016

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

Something about seam. I don't trust him

For me it's the fact he has Gaster's face.

EDIT: Okay well it's kinda close anyway but probably means nothing.

Neuronyx fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Oct 1, 2021

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:28

super sweet best pal: Nov 18, 2009

Neuronyx posted:

For me it's the fact he has Gaster's face.

EDIT: Okay well it's kinda close anyway but probably means nothing.

Seam is the one who acknowledges the existence of the crystals and the bosses. That alone is very suspicious.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:45

Grayshift: May 31, 2013

Not what he shawms

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:56

Sockser: Jun 28, 2007; This world only remembers the results!

Sorta spoilers for the secret boss of Ch 2 contained within

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ3DEnvJ464

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:58

YggiDee: Sep 12, 2007; WASP CREW

Can't trust a dude whose lips are halfway sewn shut. You use that for two things, cadavers and Loki. So Seam is either undead or a trickster god, neither of which bodes well for us.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 03:59

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

wait, are sans and papyrus undead? i trust them

# ? Oct 1, 2021 04:03

YggiDee: Sep 12, 2007; WASP CREW

Their lips aren't sewn shut so they're fine. Also monsters don't have corpses.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 04:04

MariusLecter: Sep 5, 2009; NI MUERTE NI MIEDO

YggiDee posted:

Can't trust a dude whose lips are halfway sewn shut. You use that for two things, cadavers and Loki. So Seam is either undead or a trickster god, neither of which bodes well for us.

Counterpoint.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 04:10

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

YggiDee posted:

Honestly it's never even occurred to me that the other fallen humans might not have been children. Toriel finds them, adopts them, they get loose and inevitably fall to the King of Monsters. Maybe it's the fairy tale aspect of it all, with Mt Ebott as a forbidden mountain that steals your kids and also the place where monsters were sealed away ages ago.

For all her apparent benevolence, I'm not sure if Toriel would have let an adult go in the Underground, given how much damage even a kid can do. Also, I think an adult would have better odds against Asgore.

There's also an interview with Toby Fox where he describes the victims of Mount Ebott as "several human children" but that's from 2013 so I don't know if that counts.

yeah, at the end of the day it just seems like... thematically appropriate, I guess. toriel's motherly sadness at not being able to stop them(and you) from leaving especially.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 04:10

RareAcumen: Dec 28, 2012

Fangz posted:

Generally the way I think of the other Undertale humans is that some of them were adults, some were children, but that doesn't have to correlate with guilt or innocence - since willingless to kill is what matters, not physical strength. You can arguably infer various things about the humans from the items they left behind, so e.g. the cute tutu is covered in *dust*, which suggests that whichever that human was despite their cuteness, one of the more murderous ones. Asgore could quite legitimately have killed children in self-defense/defense of others.

Charatale, 50 Charas are dropped into an underground and have to kill every other Chara to complete the genocide run

# ? Oct 1, 2021 04:10

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 10:55

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

https://mobile.twitter.com/nebulacloudz/status/1443071342123814912
:hmmyes:

# ? Oct 1, 2021 04:15

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