|
https://twitter.com/Nox_Aeternus/status/1441406100759273472 Well that's certainly a... shake-up.
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2021 16:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 19:38 |
|
|
Dawgstar posted:https://twitter.com/Nox_Aeternus/status/1441406100759273472 
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2021 18:02
|
|
|
I hope they will be releasing the PDF alone at some point? I ain't spending $45 on a physical copy I can't really and will never use.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2021 18:14
|
|
|
I guess you could just buy the pdf, its here for $31.50 https://renegadegamestudios.com/pdf-sabbat-the-black-hand-vampire-the-masquerade-roleplaying-game-pre-order/ I haven't looked through it much yet, but I got that and the book of nod pdf yesterday from physical preorders.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2021 19:59
|
|
|
ritorix posted:I guess you could just buy the pdf, its here for $31.50 How is the Book of Nod? Is it just the original one?
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2021 22:55
|
|
|
RocknRollaAyatollah posted:How is the Book of Nod? Is it just the original one? It's just a reprint of the original with nicer binding than a pod version. https://renegadegamestudios.com/the-book-of-nod-vampire-the-masquerade-5th-ed/ the super fancy LARP version is cool as hell but it's....a lot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 00:18
|
|
|
joylessdivision posted:the super fancy LARP version is cool as hell but it's....a lot. Yeah I've always wanted a physical copy but the 'normal' one will have to do. I got to check it out at gencon, the silver foil pages were pretty nice.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 00:26
|
|
|
ritorix posted:Yeah I've always wanted a physical copy but the 'normal' one will have to do. I got to check it out at gencon, the silver foil pages were pretty nice. I feel like an idiot because I had an old physical copy my friend had left at my house and never picked up, but unfortunately it was lost at some point. I've got a copy from Drivethru which is fine, although not as nice as the hardcover version.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 02:14
|
|
|
No deluxe larper physical copy can ever compare to hand-collated and bound comparative noddist volumes where you lay out verses from the Book, Revelations, Erciyes, loose fragments, and Dies Ignis with commentary on the correlations between each verse and a gematric index. Wanna out Noddist the Noddist character? Just put one of those together and get it bound, costs about 200 dollars.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 05:02
|
|
|
Meanwhile Revelations of the Dark Mother lays forgotten just like the Path of Lilith is apparently now a minor Path in the modern Sabbat. I wonder if there's supposed to be any real world meaning in that development.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 05:21
|
|
|
It's a shame, too, because Revelations is some glorious nonsense and Brucato at his best. It's the one book you can stop and go 'yeah okay there's probably some actual gematria in here' because the guy almost definitely inserted some.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 06:24
|
|
|
…and almost certainly hosed it up, like every other time he’s done anything involving Judaism.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
Brucato made a flaming hash out of a form of spirituality he barely understands? Unpossible.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 16:24
|
|
|
what changes would you make to make Demon a little closer to traditional/pop-religious stories/games about angels and demons (for example In Nomine)? closer to I suppose morality plays as opposed to more value-neutral spy fiction? foreground the redemptionist faction more, or center stories about convincing angels to Fall?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:what changes would you make to make Demon a little closer to traditional/pop-religious stories/games about angels and demons (for example In Nomine)? closer to I suppose morality plays as opposed to more value-neutral spy fiction? foreground the redemptionist faction more, or center stories about convincing angels to Fall? I'd probably play up Exiles, since they're autonomous Angels who have been cut off from the God-Machine and yet haven't fallen. I wouldn't say Demon is value-neutral, but it's pretty far from a traditional morality play. I think to get at that you'd probably want to focus on the God-Machine's preservationist side-- it is regularly shown to act in order to preserve human civilization / life on earth. That's just about the only understandable motivation it has. By foregrounding that in the infrastructures and matrices you come close to the "divine preserving autocratic rear end in a top hat / infernal possibly-destructive freedom-loving rebel" you see in somewhat more traditional stories about divine servants. The other way to do it, which is probably more in line with the setting and IMO is more interesting, is to take a kind of existential view of morality. Demons are free, but what they choose to do with that freedom is still subject to moral scrutiny. You'd probably focus more on other Demons as antagonists in that situation-- Tempters ruining mortals lives, Saboteurs okay with mass civilian casualties if it damages the God-Machine, Integrators willing to sell out their comrades for a faux sense of divine purpose, that kind of thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2021 18:49
|
|
|
Yeah I don’t mean in the sense of making the god machine “good”, but more like, applying more of a philosophical or moral valence to the struggle against and involving the God-Machine to some extent. But maybe that would take away from the god-machine’s ineffability and incomprehensible ness E. for example, in In Nomine, demons generally try to get humans to act in ways that are self-expressive but also self-destructive, while the angels generally try to encourage humans to act in self-denial or even self-sacrificing ways. but that doesn’t really come across in DtD. all it takes is you stop following the rituals. which makes a statement in and of itself but it also means that the stakes aren’t quite there. Like, if I ran Demon, I would want angels and demons to really stake claims on human souls beyond just in an operational way of having more Cover dots or less DOCTOR ZIMBARDO fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Sep 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2021 19:06
|
|
|
I think, thematically, it would be pretty difficult to do something like traditional War on Heaven narratives with Demon: the Descent, because it fights the alienating impersonal-ness of the God-Machine every step of the way. Humanity (human hearts, minds, souls) is the medium and substance of the classic conflict between Heaven and Hell, but the G-M and its Angels, former or otherwise, are invested in humanity only very obliquely. If you wanted stuff like that to fit into the existing milieu, you would want more focus on humans/human society as material to be won, lost, bargained-for, taken away, etc. in a way that was not necessarily preoccupied with their morality per se, but rather just your ability to predict and control their behavior. Stuff for maintaining/operating your own weird G-M style ops through pirate Infrastructure or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2021 19:47
|
|
|
DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:what changes would you make to make Demon a little closer to traditional/pop-religious stories/games about angels and demons (for example In Nomine)? closer to I suppose morality plays as opposed to more value-neutral spy fiction? foreground the redemptionist faction more, or center stories about convincing angels to Fall? as crazy as it sounds, this is basically demon the fallen and it's probably the easiest owod game to get into from a metaplot/mechanics standpoint, so I'd just play that instead
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2021 22:00
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:https://twitter.com/Nox_Aeternus/status/1441406100759273472 Ur-Shulgi should obliterate anyone who enters the mountain without his permission. quote:Clan: Children of Haqim
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 02:59
|
|
|
quote:Virtues: Unknown; do such trappings matter to a god? Isn't the whole loving founding thesis of Vampire: the Masquerade that they do, and that any who think they don't are fooling themselves? Not that this would have been the only time VTM left that by the wayside.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 03:20
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:Ur-Shulgi should obliterate anyone who enters the mountain without his permission. Yes, he really should, shouldn't he? The only source we have on the Sabbat "taking Alamut" is an in-universe report from an unknown source. It's about as unreliable as you can get. e: in fact, from the replies to that tweet: Justin Achilli posted:I mean, that's one account of what happened there.... PantsOptional fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Oct 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 03:56
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:Ur-Shulgi should obliterate anyone who enters the mountain without his permission. Man, I wish I needed ur-Shulgi explained to me but that is useless knowledge I will carry forever.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 04:02
|
|
|
I actually missed out on the actual Ur-Shugli deets all this time, aside from third-hand mentions of their being scary as hell (man, 'it' is really dated there) and killing all (most of?) the muslim assamites. I don't really have much more information than I did before, but numbers big, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 04:10
|
|
|
EimiYoshikawa posted:I actually missed out on the actual Ur-Shugli deets all this time, aside from third-hand mentions of their being scary as hell (man, 'it' is really dated there) and killing all (most of?) the muslim assamites. He might be one of the original Bali depending on which stories are true
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 04:18
|
|
|
I think when referring to ancient monsters we can use "it," I don't think that's offensive to them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 04:19
|
|
|
Cool Dad posted:I think when referring to ancient monsters we can use "it," I don't think that's offensive to them. It's borderline. I still feel off whenever I see Vykos referred to as an "it"
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 05:17
|
|
|
Yeah, don't buy into vampire hype just because they're old and dusty. ur-Shulgi should absolutely get taken out to lunch by the Sabbat because they are lame and boring.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 05:23
|
|
|
DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Yeah I don’t mean in the sense of making the god machine “good”, but more like, applying more of a philosophical or moral valence to the struggle against and involving the God-Machine to some extent. But maybe that would take away from the god-machine’s ineffability and incomprehensible ness You could always make the G-M have some key infrastructure in place that is reliant on a specific population of humans behaving in a specific way, and the demons are trying to undermine it by discouraging that behavior without popping up on the radar of the angels tasked with maintaining that infrastructure. For example, I once ran a game where a key component of some concealment infrastructure relied on a specific group of friends remaining completely self-absorbed and devoid of introspection.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 06:11
|
|
|
Holy poo poo if you ever wanted a perfect representation of an elder whose taken a few levels of agg damage but keeps on ticking, check out tonights WWDitS.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 06:17
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:Yeah, don't buy into vampire hype just because they're old and dusty. ur-Shulgi should absolutely get taken out to lunch by the Sabbat because they are lame and boring.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 09:34
|
|
|
I think the interpretation that the Sabbat took Alamut is a bit off or maybe backwards. The in-game author of that bit was not Sabbat, but a Banu Hakim that was forced out of Alamut (they refer to their 'rafiq', warrior caste, being unable to approach Alamut). It says these folks control Alamut now: -'an Ancient who was Ancient when the children of Caine were young, a killer of killers'. Ur-Shulgi. -'a witch with three eyes whose vitae enthralls in a single draught.' Some Salubri? Paging anyone with encyclopedic knowledge of WoD NPCs. -'a cult that reveres yet dreads the rising of those who have been judged' Which sounds like the Sabbat. That same piece shifts focus to talk about weird murders in a nearby village, mentions just how good apartheid Israel is at running a Second Inquisition, and details the Cult of Caine gaining influence among the Ashirra of Cairo. According to the author, all of these threads link back to Alamut. Cult of the Blood Gods also had some speculation about 'hmm how is this Cult of Caine back after a thousand years, it's almost like a methuselah did it'. So if anything, it sounds like Ur-Shulgi is cultivating pro-diablerie (Cult of Caine/Sabbat) groups and even the Inquisition to do...something.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 10:22
|
|
|
Sounds a little more like the Talmahera. EDIT: Regarding the other two... I'm not sure the first is necessarily Ur-Shulgi, though he's a good fit. There are a bunch of things that could fit the standard, and not having been paying attention to V5 or having read the book in question I wouldn't want to comment on which it might be too much, but something about it doesn't quite seem right. Ur-Shulgi is from the Second City, a terrible child (and yes, age can be slowed or halted, but nonetheless). To be ancient when Caine's childer are young - and here we must be willing to consider a literal meaning, not just a 'all the children of caine' but specifically his childer - doesn't fit that. It still may be them, of course. The three-eyed witch I'm not familiar. Salubri is obvious, and Rayzeel is still knocking about, but the bit about her blood being thrice-binding in one sip doesn't ring a bell. It suggests thaumaturgy is in play some how. The Terror Option is that it's actually a straight Baali takeover with Ur-Shulgi and another of the First Three together comprising the Unnamed One (the old theory of it being a pair of lovers, perhaps), and the third eye a holdover akin to those some Tremere manifest. Loomer fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Oct 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 10:29
|
|
|
A bunch of Assamite Antitribu left the Sabbat and joined the Ur-Shulgi faction back in the day, iirc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 21:04
|
|
|
ritorix posted:-'a cult that reveres yet dreads the rising of those who have been judged' Which sounds like the Sabbat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2021 23:31
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:A bunch of Assamite Antitribu left the Sabbat and joined the Ur-Shulgi faction back in the day, iirc. Yeah. It took some wind out of the Black Hand's sails because a lot of their oldest antitribu were there in hopes that the Sabbat would eventually break the Tremere's blood curse and then ur-Shulgi did it by, like, blowing on it so away they went.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2021 13:52
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Yeah. It took some wind out of the Black Hand's sails because a lot of their oldest antitribu were there in hopes that the Sabbat would eventually break the Tremere's blood curse and then ur-Shulgi did it by, like, blowing on it so away they went. Part of my brain took the last line of your post as a turn of phrase, but the part of my brain that stores WOD nonsense says "No that's probably literally how it happened, because oWoD"
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2021 15:36
|
|
|
My recollection is that Ur-Shulgi's main innovation was to treat the 100+ Banu Haqim deaths necessary to break the Tremere blood curse as less of a downside and more of a chance to hit two birds with one stone.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2021 20:06
|
|
|
Hey, is there a website or zine that publishes Changeling: The Lost material? I'm working with someone on a set of encounters where fey entrap mortals in gameshow-style situations and I'd rather not deal with posting it to the Vault and trying to promote it myself.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2021 03:27
|
|
|
Did the Grail Knights ever get updated for V20?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2021 04:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 19:38 |
|
|
Just had a friend point out that the biggest event in the sabbat calendar, the palla grande, means a big ball, not a big ball.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2021 14:55
|
|
