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Fancy Pelosi posted:This idea that Biden and Trump are equally bad on covid is just not factually accurate. Biden got the numbers down significantly. It's not his fault a bunch of chuds still refuse to get vaccinated so Delta spiked. One, I think it's possible for the anti-vax crowd to look at those numbers and draw anti-vax conclusions (numbers are spiking now because the vaccine is killing people, numbers spiked last winter because lots of flu deaths got written off as COVID deaths by malicious hospitals, Biden's refusal to endorse Ivermectin is driving up deaths that could have been preventable, etc). Two, I honestly don't think the numbers matter anymore. Emotions are driving the bus for the right wing base. If they didn't like Biden because he's a cloned robot communist or whatever, data showing how his policies are causing fewer preventable deaths aren't gonna factor into their opinions at all. Data showing Biden being better than Trump at anything is fake news.
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Oct 3, 2021 15:07
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nelson posted:https://twitter.com/SenatorSinema/status/1444354092743237636?s=20 It's clearly her goal. John McCain did a big "vote against everyone else in your party" and that's what she wants. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 15:31
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Tibalt posted:It's hard to judge how well Sinema's "I won't let them hold a bill hostage" line is going over, but I don't think it's working. Anecdotal, but my mother thought Sinema was a Republican complaining about Democratic leadership - the GOP might have poisoned that well so completely that it goes like water off a duck's back. This. I know people in person that sorta like manchin. None of those folks like sinema. Machin has his audience to various degrees outside the WV. Sinema can’t really pick a “cause” to push on why she doesn’t like the bill. I kinda of agree with the goon up thread that she got told by some GOP ghouls that she would have the votes or some poo poo.
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Oct 3, 2021 15:31
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Eric Cantonese posted:I thought this too, but they’re apparently the top primetime network in the country: They're the top within broadcast TV, not top overall. Streaming services dominate broadcast TV now. As a recent example Squid Game on Netflix got tens of millions of views in its first week, compared to CBS's best performing show which only got 9 million views. It's basically boomers and retirement homes keeping the broadcast networks going at this point.
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Oct 3, 2021 15:33
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Seph posted:They're the top within broadcast TV, not top overall. Streaming services dominate broadcast TV now. As a recent example Squid Game on Netflix got tens of millions of views in its first week, compared to CBS's best performing show which only got 9 million views. It's basically boomers and retirement homes keeping the broadcast networks going at this point. Yeah but Netflix is global and CBS is American (Canada too? Idk) so it's a bit apples and oranges. But of course, you are free to compare fruit
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Oct 3, 2021 15:50
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Froghammer posted:Two, I honestly don't think the numbers matter anymore. Emotions are driving the bus for the right wing base. If they didn't like Biden because he's a cloned robot communist or whatever, data showing how his policies are causing fewer preventable deaths aren't gonna factor into their opinions at all. Data showing Biden being better than Trump at anything is fake news. The numbers stopped mattering after the first wave subsided in the summer of 2020. We had about two months of bipartisan support in March and April when the virus was still new and people didn't know how it worked or how deadly it was. After that first wave, lockdowns and masks became politicized and any notion of rational policy became impossible for half of the country. There's no way that genie was ever going to go back in the bottle.
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Oct 3, 2021 15:54
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Seph posted:The numbers stopped mattering after the first wave subsided in the summer of 2020. We had about two months of bipartisan support in March and April when the virus was still new and people didn't know how it worked or how deadly it was. After that first wave, lockdowns and masks became politicized and any notion of rational policy became impossible for half of the country. There's no way that genie was ever going to go back in the bottle. The ongoing argument about whether minorities have been vaccinated is so tedious, not to mention out of date. In many blue states, I understand that they prioritized vulnerable people and people of color when the vaccine first came out - what do people think was happening during that time? The fact is that the disparities have leveled out massively in the recent months and the remaining unvaccinated population is overwhelmingly Fox News watching chuds who take their medical advice from the former guy. As far am I'm concerned, at this point, anyone who hasn't taken the vaccine is a menace and a harm to the public health. I don't think it would be "good" if they died, I think any human death is a tragedy... but it would definitely make the world a safer place and certainly wouldn't hurt the Democrats at the polls in the coming elections. My question is why people who consider themselves "leftists" bend over backwards to defend these people, even citing old data to try to make others feel bad for being disgusted with these people.
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Oct 3, 2021 16:13
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Failed Imagineer posted:Yeah but Netflix is global and CBS is American (Canada too? Idk) so it's a bit apples and oranges. But of course, you are free to compare fruit Ok, about 35% of Netflix's subscribers are in the US and Squid Game has around 60 million views as far as I can tell. So that's about 20 million as a rough estimate for US viewership. It's still not even close. And that's just the official numbers. Netflix measures views on the account level, not profile level, so its official figures are likely an under count on true viewership. The Nielsen ratings on the other hand are certainly an over count - they are assuming every person with a TV is part of their population. So they extrapolate their sample data to the entire US population with a TV. However, there are millions of younger people who own a TV and never watch anything but streaming services or play video games. It's an outdated methodology that made sense when TVs were only used to watch TV, but it doesn't make sense anymore. Seph fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 16:14
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Fancy Pelosi posted:The ongoing argument about whether minorities have been vaccinated is so tedious, not to mention out of date. In many blue states, I understand that they prioritized vulnerable people and people of color when the vaccine first came out - what do people think was happening during that time? What was happening was governors farming out vaccine distribution to groups like Blue Shield (California) & consultancies (New York) that made it harder for urban community health groups & depts. to reach the populations they served. Almost always a crappy website was involved; for a while, Blue Shield's was scraping personal health information that was irrelevant to vaccinations. But yes: community groups finally got their way & were supported in outreach efforts. quote:The fact is that the disparities have leveled out massively in the recent months and the remaining unvaccinated population is overwhelmingly Fox News watching chuds who take their medical advice from the former guy. As far am I'm concerned, at this point, anyone who hasn't taken the vaccine is a menace and a harm to the public health. I don't think it would be "good" if they died, I think any human death is a tragedy... but it would definitely make the world a safer place and certainly wouldn't hurt the Democrats at the polls in the coming elections. It just might hurt Dems at the polls, or at least not help them, given that the greatest number of unvaccinated are those who are also uninsured; that group exceeds Republicans who aren't vaccinated, although of course there is crossover. Do you truly believe that pointing out that the unvaccinated comprise various demographics or contesting the way people politically theory-craft the loss of hundreds of thousands of lives (most of which have been marginalized & institutionalized groups, such as the incarcerated, the old, the disabled, and those who delivered food to your home as "essential workers") is some sort of psychological jiu jitsu to hurt your feelings? Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 17:02
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Fancy Pelosi posted:The ongoing argument about whether minorities have been vaccinated is so tedious, not to mention out of date. In many blue states, I understand that they prioritized vulnerable people and people of color when the vaccine first came out - what do people think was happening during that time? The fact is that the disparities have leveled out massively in the recent months and the remaining unvaccinated population is overwhelmingly Fox News watching chuds who take their medical advice from the former guy. As far am I'm concerned, at this point, anyone who hasn't taken the vaccine is a menace and a harm to the public health. I don't think it would be "good" if they died, I think any human death is a tragedy... but it would definitely make the world a safer place and certainly wouldn't hurt the Democrats at the polls in the coming elections. "People dying would be good because it would help democrats get elected" is a really vile thing to say
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Oct 3, 2021 17:38
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Huge new leak of financial documents showing who is hiding wealth in offshore tax havens: https://twitter.com/CarlosLozadaWP/status/1444703964415635456
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Oct 3, 2021 17:42
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Andorra posted:"People dying would be good because it would help democrats get elected" is a really vile thing to say Everyone is shrugging their shoulders at this point. You're dealing with people who think Facebook is their doctor, horse dewormer will cure cancer, and are repeatedly killing themselves when the solution is a 2 minute drive to Walgreens.
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Oct 3, 2021 17:42
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Andorra posted:"People dying would be good because it would help democrats get elected" is a really vile thing to say While American partisanship is still proving an issue, it seems like the racial disparity is doing better. And worldwide rates (both low vax and high infection) are not doing great either - the issues are broader than some uniquely American problem. Sarcastr0 fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 17:47
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Fancy Pelosi is doing a fantastic bit where they take right wing talking points and slap them with neoliberal rhetoric and it is indistinguishable from Democratic/Liberal posters on Twitter and in this thread. It is brilliant. Make Fancy Pelosi IK for this thread. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 3, 2021 17:55
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marshmonkey posted:Huge new leak of financial documents showing who is hiding wealth in offshore tax havens: https://twitter.com/CarlosLozadaWP/status/1444703964415635456 I’m paywalled and can’t see. Is there anything that actually matters in this? I thought the Panama papers did gently caress all to make any meaningful change. At this point I’m beginning to think the wealthy have already carved out a de facto legal set of privileges and rights for themselves that are different from what applies to normal people and we can no longer challenge these things.
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Oct 3, 2021 17:56
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Kraftwerk posted:At this point I’m beginning to think the wealthy have already carved out a de facto legal set of privileges and rights for themselves that are different from what applies to normal people and we can no longer challenge these things. You don't say.
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Oct 3, 2021 17:59
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Sarcastr0 posted:Not what they said. In fact, they said the opposite - " I don't think it would be "good" if they died, I think any human death is a tragedy." It was the qualifier that made it vile: quote:I don't think it would be "good" if they died, I think any human death is a tragedy... but it would definitely make the world a safer place and certainly wouldn't hurt the Democrats at the polls in the coming elections. This was pretty vile, too: quote:My question is why people who consider themselves "leftists" bend over backwards to defend these people, even citing old data to try to make others feel bad for being disgusted with these people.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:00
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Here is a non-paywalled article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58780561quote:The Pandora Papers is a leak of almost 12 million documents that reveals hidden wealth, tax avoidance and, in some cases, money laundering by some of the world's rich and powerful. quote:The Pandora Papers leak includes 6.4 million documents, almost three million images, more than a million emails and almost half-a-million spreadsheets.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:02
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I don't think it's good if conservatives die, but I think it's good if the people who caused their deaths by lying to them suffer consequences, such as not getting re-elected.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:04
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Kraftwerk posted:I’m paywalled and can’t see. Is there anything that actually matters in this? I thought the Panama papers did gently caress all to make any meaningful change. Well the difference was the Dems didn’t control congress and would lose the presidency in 2016 so it wasn’t possible to really perform the necessary investigations and changes to the law. You can imagine that McConnell would prevent every opportunity to properly fun the IRS and give them the tools necessary to go after those tax cheats within the US. Now with the Dems in control of both congress and congress I’m sure the party of harm reduction will finally take action against these tax cheats.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:05
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Willa Rogers posted:It was the qualifier that made it vile: Explaining something is not the same as approving of it.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:06
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I think it's good when conservatives die. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 3, 2021 18:10
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marshmonkey posted:Huge new leak of financial documents showing who is hiding wealth in offshore tax havens: https://twitter.com/CarlosLozadaWP/status/1444703964415635456 Not just huge - largest ever. https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...ch-and-powerful Hope we'll see some heads rolling. Fancy Pelosi posted:The ongoing argument about whether minorities have been vaccinated is so tedious, not to mention out of date. In many blue states, I understand that they prioritized vulnerable people and people of color when the vaccine first came out - what do people think was happening during that time? The fact is that the disparities have leveled out massively in the recent months and the remaining unvaccinated population is overwhelmingly Fox News watching chuds who take their medical advice from the former guy. As far am I'm concerned, at this point, anyone who hasn't taken the vaccine is a menace and a harm to the public health. I don't think it would be "good" if they died, I think any human death is a tragedy... but it would definitely make the world a safer place and certainly wouldn't hurt the Democrats at the polls in the coming elections. Agreed. I'm happy at chuds and plague spreaders dying, anyone who has a problem with that, feel free 
DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 18:12
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Sarcastr0 posted:I see those statements as 1) a political statement of fact, and 2) taking issue with someone else's political statement of fact. And I explained why that particular political theory is stupid: Most covid deaths have been among marginalized groups that traditionally support Democrats. It's far from "a political statement of fact" and relies on kindergarten-levels of of black-and-white cartoon thinking.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:15
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Byzantine posted:I think it's good when conservatives die. Given the death rate, I don't think the partisan asymmetry in deaths will have any electoral effect. I am optimistic about the employer-based mandate helping these numbers.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:15
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Sarcastr0 posted:I think we can discuss politics without lusting for death. You can think it's good when conservatives die and not be "lusting for death". It's a simple statement of personal opinion
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Oct 3, 2021 18:17
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Where does this idea come from that virtually all deaths are now from vaccine deniers? A majority of deaths come from the uninsured. A majority of republicans are wealthy, if not petite bourgeoisie.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:20
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Where does this idea come from that virtually all deaths are now from vaccine deniers? A majority of deaths come from the uninsured. A majority of republicans are wealthy, if not petite bourgeoisie. Idk about "virtually all", but CDC data as reported in the BMJ gives a current ratio of about 11:1 https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2282
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Oct 3, 2021 18:22
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:A majority of republicans are wealthy, if not petite bourgeoisie. I don't know if people are talking about rates, and whether they're talking about currently or total from the beginning. I also think it doesn't matter - the rate of death is not going to cause an change in demographics. And stupid should not be a death sentence. Even if that stupid puts others at risk.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:24
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Kraftwerk posted:I’m paywalled and can’t see. Is there anything that actually matters in this? I thought the Panama papers did gently caress all to make any meaningful change. The panama papers resulted in two governments being overthrown and were all leaks from one acounting firm. This is a leak from fourteen firms. Just the initial coverage from today's article includes the leaders of several countries, and the next one from the Post is focused on the US. This is potentially worth its own thread if people want to dig into the dataset themselves.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:25
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Sarcastr0 posted:And stupid should not be a death sentence. Even if that stupid puts others at risk. I agree. Fortunately there is no state power or legal system enforcing a death sentence, it's the stupid plaguespreading sacks of poo poo killing themselves. Ha ha ha.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:27
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Sarcastr0 posted:And stupid should not be a death sentence. Even if that stupid puts others at risk. But nobody is suggesting they be sentenced to death. The case being made is that, if they choose to kill themselves through their own stupidity, it's a net good.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:28
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So like, I get that a lot of people think that the only way things will ever change is when enough of the old establishment die off so that people who aren't corrupt and entitled will take their place and then make things better, but that's a very naïve viewpoint in my opinion. Thinking of conservatism as being essential to a person's being is as unfounded as any other essentialist belief. People change when their circumstances change because the vast majority of bad actors are bad simply because they're deeply incentivized to act badly. When the current crop of "bad people" die, they'll be replaced by more "bad people" who act more or less indistinguishably from them because that's what the system requires. I understand that it's very difficult to take a structuralist viewpoint of something that seems inane and obviously insane to you and to me (like being proudly, loudly anti-science and anti-vax), but what you're looking at isn't really a group of people who have decided that they simply must be correct in all things forever, but group dynamics at play over scarce resources. I don't have a grand unified theory for this, exactly, but part of why political ideology polarizes as hard as it does is because people are unhappy, and the means to make themselves happy are, in some respects, sold to them through the notion of their vote gaining them the power to change things to be better for them. Therefore, you're not really their enemy because of social reasons like being trans or gay or black, but those are the signifiers of your class as "the person/people who want to take away the only possible means I have to make myself less miserable" and so those are the aspects that get attacked. It's part of the same visceral hatred that people have towards the chuds and the boomers. They represent the "group" that's preventing us from doing the good things. Even though in reality that isn't really the case, since the system is structured such that we all get hosed because we aren't capitalist-class. Part of the reason the system is so intransigent is because of the lie that we have any real say in what happens. We only really get to "decide" which markers are "us" and which are "not us." And even that's parceled out more and more by the owners of everything, so the scraps that do remain get fought over more and more viciously. At least, as far as I can tell
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Oct 3, 2021 18:30
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Though exceedingly rare, double vaccinated breakthrough deaths are due to the continued uncontrolled spread of the virus in the us. And completely avoidable. As shown by other countries efforts to stop such from happening.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:32
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Sarcastr0 posted:This is not true about Republicans. I don't know the numbers, but plenty are working class and uninsured. The average household income of a trump voter in 2016 was something like $75,000. There are places in the US where it’s difficult to live on that, but it’s way higher than the average household income in the US, which is more like $50,000. It depends on what you mean by wealthy, but I wouldn’t call the average republican poor, although obviously there are poor republicans who soak up a disproportionate amount of media attention each election. There are also wealthy republicans who read as poor in media representation because of the way they dress and behave, or because the source of their wealth is a family business (making them petite bourgeoisie) or some kind of skilled trade. A lot of the screaming weirdoes at school-board meetings probably own car washes or landscaping businesses, and they’ve got insurance to cover monoclonal treatment at the hospital if they’re unvaccinated.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:38
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If the same people who are in active support of the end of democracy in this country are also the same people killing themselves attempting to outsmart a deadly virus with Facebook memes, it isn't "lusting for death" to make the observation that perhaps the ultimate outcome will have some benefits. If there has to be a segment of the population that indulges in this extremely destructive and deadly self-harm, people are allowed to express some relief that it also happens to be the same segment of the population who would gladly put minorities or other undesirables into ovens. If someone has to kill themselves with covid, I'm glad it's the guy who thinks a woman should be forced to carry a rapist's baby to term. FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 18:41
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:The average household income of a trump voter in 2016 was something like $75,000. There are places in the US where it’s difficult to live on that, but it’s way higher than the average household income in the US, which is more like $50,000. That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of poor Trump voters though, even a small number ultrawealthy drags the averages upwards.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:53
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marshmonkey posted:Huge new leak of financial documents showing who is hiding wealth in offshore tax havens: https://twitter.com/CarlosLozadaWP/status/1444703964415635456 didn't the panama papers do this exact same thing and everyone just pretended that they were never leaked? edit: sorry, just waking up, didn't see this was already discussed. for some odd reason i'm still pessimistic that there will be any consequential action that comes out of this GhostofJohnMuir fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Oct 3, 2021 |
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Oct 3, 2021 18:54
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:didn't the panama papers do this exact same thing and everyone just pretended that they were never leaked? N...no? Just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. The release resulted in a bunch of resignations and a ton of investigations and changes to financial laws. And this report is many times larger.
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Oct 3, 2021 19:00
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:for some odd reason i'm still pessimistic that there will be any consequential action that comes out of this It's because you're supposed to feel that way. It makes your biopower easier to exploit.
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