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The Locator posted:Also.. you are playing Py with Biters on? You are on the next level, I turned biters off for this experience. Yeah I'm playing with all default settings (except research queue enabled, obvs), all pY mods enabled (including alien life) and no other mods except FNEI. I'll report back if I die.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:16
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KillHour posted:I'll report back when I die. I have increased the accuracy of this post.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:36
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Anyone happen to have a good train blueprint book? only one I've found makes insanely huge rail bits(like, chunk size minimum) and I really don't need that yet.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:45
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Nalesh posted:Anyone happen to have a good train blueprint book? only one I've found makes insanely huge rail bits(like, chunk size minimum) and I really don't need that yet. A chunk is barely over 5 rail cars long, anything smaller than that and you can't really make a train intersection.
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Oct 4, 2021 19:43
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These are the ones I've always used: https://github.com/MojoDTV/Factorio-Blueprints/tree/master/Track%20Blueprints
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Oct 4, 2021 20:05
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FYI using blueprints you didn't create is equivalent to looking up how to solve the puzzles in Portal.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:14
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FYI play the game however you enjoy 
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Oct 4, 2021 20:15
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Charles 1998 posted:FYI using blueprints you didn't create is equivalent to looking up how to solve the puzzles in Portal. Eh, rail blueprints are fine though. The challenge is primarily in laying out your rail network, not so much in actually designing the individual chunks that go into it.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:18
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Charles 1998 posted:FYI using blueprints you didn't create is equivalent to looking up how to solve the puzzles in Portal. thank you for this contribution, the thread will take it under advisement
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Oct 4, 2021 20:21
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M_Gargantua posted:FYI play the game however you enjoy I did not say it was bad, although I was going to. I'm just stating you're doing the equivalent. If you don't mind a part of the game done by others for you, instead of you doing it yourself, then by all means do it. But for me, using someone else's blueprints is like someone else telling me how to solve a puzzle. It's a warning, not a demand.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:22
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The Locator posted:Hopefully my math isn't too bad here. This sounds way worse than Angelbobs.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:24
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Yeah the gross order of complexity for the packs under discussion is vanilla > Krastorio > bob’s > angelbob > py by a wide margin
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Oct 4, 2021 20:26
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Charles 1998 posted:I did not say it was bad, although I was going to. I'm just stating you're doing the equivalent. If you don't mind a part of the game done by others for you, instead of you doing it yourself, then by all means do it. But for me, using someone else's blueprints is like someone else telling me how to solve a puzzle. This is why I took a mixed approach - I designed everything I used for my last world (only one to make it to rocket launch, and well past that) by myself initially, for each given purpose. My own 3-way, 4-way, roundabout, etc. Only *after* I did it successfully on my own did I look at how others did it, and used their blueprints if they were sufficiently large improvements over what I did. Otherwise I just improved my own design with what I found elsewhere. Best of both worlds imo.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:27
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Vizuyos posted:This sounds way worse than Angelbobs. Every single one of those simple circuit boards has to be hand-crafted also, you can't just plop down an assembly machine and fill a chest with wood to feed it. I have an assembly machine devoted to making copper wire so that I can pick up copper plates, copper wire, and wood, then hand craft the circuit boards to drop into various chests feeding assembly machines making miners, assemblers, inserters and splitters.
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Oct 4, 2021 20:36
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The Locator posted:Every single one of those simple circuit boards has to be hand-crafted also, you can't just plop down an assembly machine and fill a chest with wood to feed it. I mean I'm one of the guys that super loves the insanity of full Pymods and the circuit thing never bothered me. You just scoop some copper wire and queue up a couple stacks of circuits and go do the fifty other building and logistical tasks you're working on. I mean yeah it's a little dumb that they're so hard to automate but I hardly think it's enough to drive you away from the pack if you like the other aspects. Also I don't think it was mentioned but wood production is a red science tech that's not too hard to get to so you can rush that and get that going (which you should because getting the 25 trees into the forestry farm to run at full speed takes about an hour from scratch). And it's another convoluted product chain that requires moss and soil to make seedlings and an extra cutting building to convert the logs to regular wood!
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Oct 4, 2021 22:41
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SynthesisAlpha posted:Also I don't think it was mentioned but wood production is a red science tech that's not too hard to get to so you can rush that and get that going (which you should because getting the 25 trees into the forestry farm to run at full speed takes about an hour from scratch). And it's another convoluted product chain that requires moss and soil to make seedlings and an extra cutting building to convert the logs to regular wood! I'll look into that, but from what I can see it was locked behind two techs I didn't have yet.. xenobiology and botany? For someone new to the mod it's pretty hard to tell sometimes where I should be pointing myself as far as what to do next, but that's what I have currently queued up because it looked like there was a way to get logs to make wood from in there.
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Oct 4, 2021 22:49
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Charles 1998 posted:I did not say it was bad, although I was going to. I'm just stating you're doing the equivalent. If you don't mind a part of the game done by others for you, instead of you doing it yourself, then by all means do it. But for me, using someone else's blueprints is like someone else telling me how to solve a puzzle. This is an interesting thing that pops up pretty frequently in this thread. The thing is that lots and lots and lots of people who have played lots and lots and lots of factorio disagree with you. The thing is that a lot of these discussions don't tend to discriminate along two extremely major axes that really change what it means to use other peoples blueprints: 1) what does the blueprint do and 2) what are you trying to do in the game? You could be at one extreme: you're playing vanilla factorio, and you're doing it to launch a rocket once, and you're using one of those blueprints that is the entirety of a rocket-producing factory that you fill out bit by bit as you research things, or the same thing for a pyalienlife base. This probably does count as not really playing the game! But it's also an insane strawman that nobody does, or at least people only do if they in fact do not want to play the game - maybe they want the 100% achievements, maybe they want to generate some videos. I think this (not quite to the same extent obviously) is what folks like you have in mind when they say not to use other peoples' blueprints. This extreme is "simple (or complex) intended game experience, complex blueprints". You could be at the opposite extreme, and intending to do a railworld 10ksps bobs' playthrough without any blueprints, which many people would also view as something insane that would take one million years largely because it would have an endless endless endless amount of tedium. I think this is what people who use blueprints leap to as an example of "this would be awful". This extreme is "complicated intended game experience, simple/no blueprints". But what most people are actually using third party blueprints for lie somewhere in the middle, like a complicated game experience where you really want to automate away the parts you don't personally care about : like doing space exploration and just not wanting to give a poo poo about the stupid loving AAI motors or Yet Another Fission Reactor Block, or a 1ksps science base where the point is assembling the base as a whole, not hand tuning Yet Another loving Train Intersection. The reason a lot of people use third party blueprints a lot of the time is because they want to focus on a different part of the game, or on a different level of the game. That's what you're missing in this discussion.
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Oct 4, 2021 23:08
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Bread Enthusiast posted:There's also Nullius, which I have been puttering away at for a few weeks. So far it seem pretty much seems like Byproducts: the Game. It really is, to the point where it actually has extra info in the tooltips like "void in 1", which means, you need one more processing step to delete this thing, "void in 2", means 2 steps (one to turn it into a "void in 1" item, and then a second to turn it into something you can delete, etc... Its other big thing is power management, because the only power you get at the start is wind power, which is very variable. But accumulators are far away, so you have to kinda make your own power storage by electrolyzing water with surge power and burning it when the wind is dead, which isn't efficient, but better than no storage at all. It's not as crazy as Pyanodon's, but it's definitely harder then Krastorio.
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Oct 5, 2021 00:44
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Tamba posted:Its other big thing is power management, because the only power you get at the start is wind power, which is very variable. But accumulators are far away, so you have to kinda make your own power storage by electrolyzing water with surge power and burning it when the wind is dead, which isn't efficient, but better than no storage at all. The flip side is, at least in the early game: who cares? You're not under any time pressure. If the power cuts out, nothing explodes. Just wait for the wind to turn back on. It's not like biters are going to come kill you. But, hard agree on byproducts. Nullius is very much about dealing with garbage. I respect that, but I do think it could stand to give you a few more tools to deal with it in the early game.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:07
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KillHour posted:Yeah I'm playing with all default settings (except research queue enabled, obvs), all pY mods enabled (including alien life) and no other mods except FNEI. A later patch added a less efficient bullet recipe for iron, so it's probably a little less painful now. Although if you keep going until the endgame you're probably going to want to turn biters and pollution off for performance reasons.
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Oct 5, 2021 01:14
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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You can also just slow biters down. By either pushing their starting locations farther away or slowing their spread.
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Oct 5, 2021 02:27
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I ended up cutting their evolution growth in half and now they're more of a challenge than an unstoppable force coming to murder me. Although, keeping my forward lead base deep in enemy territory alive was one of the most tense experiences I've had in Factorio. I could produce bullets just fast enough to hold off the waves if I micromanaged it, which meant every time I had to go back to the main base to accomplish something, I needed to sprint there, do whatever I needed to do as quick as possible and get back to shore up defenses and repair before I was overwhelmed. Was extremely cool - for about 2 hours before I realized I was just treading water and I had no way to take out bases guarded by medium worms and spitters with just a SMG and yellow ammo. So I turned down the evolution a bit so I could actually, you know, play the game. I was able to get trees up pretty shortly after fully automating red science. Could have probably been even faster if I beelined for it instead of researching military and desperately rushing for lead. I'm working on automating circuits as my first major push towards the next science. I can already tell the bio stuff is going to SUUUCK.
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Oct 5, 2021 04:57
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KillHour posted:I was able to get trees up pretty shortly after fully automating red science. Could have probably been even faster if I beelined for it instead of researching military and desperately rushing for lead. I'm working on automating circuits as my first major push towards the next science. I can already tell the bio stuff is going to SUUUCK. Just finished making my looped wood making facility and have everything except the swapping between petri dishes and beakers automated for red science.. I just make about 500 petri dishes at a time then swap back to the beakers and that lasts for a long time because of how long it takes to make beakers at 200 glass per run. I can't imagine trying to fight off bugs while fumbling my way through this, and oh god is my base design terrible and I have so many mixed ore patches in the starting area that I'm probably going to get rails up sooner rather than later in order to pretty much start over in a big clear patch somewhere and spread out the different mineral gathering processes. I really need to study the coal stuff also, as currently I'm mostly using raw coal for base fuel for everything and I'm building up quite a stockpile of coke from the 2 stage process of making coal gas from the raw coal and from the coal that is the byproduct of that first stage. I researched the first stage of coal processing and closed loop something so I'm sure there is some fancy pants way to get a lot more energy out of the coal now. Also of course I have those big 'nodes' of ores that I need to look into how to mine. I'm guessing the stage 1 mining tech I just researched has something in it.
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Oct 5, 2021 08:21
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The raw coal is the most efficient thing to burn until you get way deeper into the tech tree so don't worry about the coal upgrades. I'm perpetually running out of coke because holy poo poo do you need a lot of it to make lead for ammo. So much. I unlocked construction robots  Also, I was like "circuits aren't so bad I've already finished the components and now I just need the boards should be just wood right?... WHAT THE ACTUAL gently caress KillHour fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 19:23
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KillHour posted:The raw coal is the most efficient thing to burn until you get way deeper into the tech tree so don't worry about the coal upgrades. I'm perpetually running out of coke because holy poo poo do you need a lot of it to make lead for ammo. So much. Listen, you said you’d pay not to have to handle the lead, and this is my price, you didn’t have to make the deal. Also *sniff sniff* I’m running low!
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Oct 5, 2021 19:26
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Is there a good way to get a bunch of stone in krastorio/SE? cause god drat it loves gobbling up stone.
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Oct 5, 2021 20:35
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One caveat with grabbing a rail book from online, a lot of them seem to have older T-junctions in particular that were made before a change to curved rail hitboxes happened sometime around 1.0. Depending on which way you rotate the blueprint, there will be either a rail or a signal that doesn't get placed, and if it's the signal there's no indication that it placed wrong, and you might end up with a deadlock. I'm sure any up-to-date book will not have that problem, but just something to look out for. Creating my own rail book is one of the long-term projects I've been working on across multiple games. Even if you don't end up using it I recommend trying it at least once to get a better understanding of signals, block sizes, etc. One challenge I've been trying to address with my book is dealing with multiple different train sizes, since I've used the book across different games and sometimes I want little 1-1 trains zipping around and others I want behemoths that require 8 engines to reach top speed before having to slow down at the destination. Picking a rail book off the internet and calling it done locks you into the train preferences of whoever created the book, unless it has those options built in. At minimum, you have: -Left-hand vs. right-hand drive (signals inside or outside of double tracks, affects junctions and stations too) -Number of mainline tracks in each direction (I've never had need to mess with more than one pair of tracks, but maybe you do*) -Train length and singleheaded vs. doubleheaded This can leave you with dozens of options requiring dozens of railbooks to compensate for, if you want to have them all available. And I'm sure they're all out there somewhere. Not to mention other options like city block systems that tend to be a bit more flexible but come with their own possible issues. Now you could go and use the creative mod to make this on a clean slate but I find it more fun to "do it live". To start you want to make those decisions I listed above. Drive side will affect where you place signals and train length will affect your block size. Once you have that nailed down you can start with the basic straight segment - at minimum, one pair of rails, with large power poles somewhere in there, and regular signals on one or both ends. If you're feeling fancy, add in lights and pavement. Next you want to add in the rest of the basic building blocks: a 90 degree turn, a T-junction, and at the very least a blank station template. Diagonal rails and 45/135 degree turns/junctions are optional, I generally don't use them but they can come in handy if you don't want to landfill an ocean or need to veer around ore deposits. A stacker for your larger stations is always useful. From there you can start to customize the pieces, add staged ploppables to put on top of your blank station template, add templates for pickup/dropoff, belted vs. botted stations, fluid pumping, maybe even barrel handling if you swing that way. This is where it really starts to come down to your personal preferences of how you want your train network to operate, and a random book off the internet isn't likely to align with those preferences. As was mentioned upthread you're not playing wrong by just grabbing a book and using it if you want to abstract away the rail network problem. But it's an incredibly fun part of the game to figure out on your own and you can get so much more out of it by building the network to align with the way you want to play the game. *I can see the need for this in gigabases, but generally my philosophy towards that is if your factory design creates a bottleneck/chokepoint in the rail network, change the factory design. More lanes doesn't necessarily mean more throughput anyway.
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Oct 5, 2021 21:45
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Nalesh posted:Is there a good way to get a bunch of stone in krastorio/SE? cause god drat it loves gobbling up stone. In my K2 play through I believe I ended up with more stone mines than any other. Later on i think you can get sand from another source to help but I don’t completely remember.
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Oct 5, 2021 21:55
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Nalesh posted:Is there a good way to get a bunch of stone in krastorio/SE? cause god drat it loves gobbling up stone. If you have the 'dirty' option turned on, you will be so buried in stone as a byproduct of smelting everything else that later you'll have warehouses stuffed with it... or at least that's how I remember K2, but it's admittedly been a very long time since I played so maybe it's different now.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:24
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Roflex posted:Many I have used BP books for this in the past, but normally I just build something on the fly and then copy paste straight sections and corners and stuff to make a small set of blueprints that I use for that base. Of course my biggest problem is I still haven't figured out how to make sure the rails line up perfectly by chunk or whatever so I always end up 1 or 2 rail widths out of alignment when I end up trying to connect two sections of rails coming together from different parts of the map because they've gone through different numbers of corners and/or intersections to get to where I am making them come together. A city-block system would prevent that completely, but every time I've started to make a city-block base I just didn't like it at all and abandoned it very early.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:33
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about rails.
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If you’re going to shift intermediates by train anyway then it’s always seemed silly to me to build everything so close together. You’re running on rails, spread out some and don’t make a grid hell!
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Oct 5, 2021 23:06
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The Locator posted:I have used BP books for this in the past, but normally I just build something on the fly and then copy paste straight sections and corners and stuff to make a small set of blueprints that I use for that base. The new blueprint options make this a lot easier; I haven't set mine up to use it yet but there's a way to align blueprints relative to chunks (or any global grid iirc). Laying out all the big power poles at max spacing (or slightly less, can sometimes be more useful) in a big grid and then building your book on the grid can help keep things aligned. The way I avoid it is that I only use one type of intersection, a T-junction that fits in a 3x2 span of large poles. Most of it's the straight segments coming off from the T, but it ensures I can close the loop without making a squiggly connection somewhere. Even just turning a corner I'll put down a T. It's basically a city block but without complete connectivity.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:13
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The Locator posted:
It's a setting on blueprints, "absolute alignment" I think it's called, where your blueprints are placed with the absolute grid of the world in mind. If you use that and make sure all your blueprints have the exact same dimensions, they will always perfectly connect, no matter where on the map you place any of them. It's possible they have to be sized the same as a chunk for that perfect alignment though, I don't remember exactly.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:17
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If the layout is not chunk sized and you have issues with that setting there’s a way to set a custom alignment as well, but chunk sized (or some multiple of) is way easier. My own blueprint book uses 2x2 chunks iirc
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Oct 5, 2021 23:31
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The Locator posted:If you have the 'dirty' option turned on, you will be so buried in stone as a byproduct of smelting everything else that later you'll have warehouses stuffed with it... or at least that's how I remember K2, but it's admittedly been a very long time since I played so maybe it's different now. Not seeing a dirty option or anything like it sadly.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:37
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Nalesh posted:Not seeing a dirty option or anything like it sadly. Do you have recipes that produce slag as a by-product? Crush that and it turns into stone.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:49
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Nalesh posted:Not seeing a dirty option or anything like it sadly. Yeah.. I just loaded up K2 and went through all the different settings options and it appears that it was removed. Back in the day that option added stone as a byproduct for a whole bunch of different things and I was just swimming in stone by late game with nothing to do with it except crush it into sand where needed, which was nowhere near enough to use all of it.
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Oct 6, 2021 01:17
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This description originally turned me off of using the recipe because it made me think I shouldn't need it. I've determined it's a sarcastic joke because holy poo poo I still never have enough. Yes, I know I'm setting myself up for a dumb joke about drugs here
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Oct 6, 2021 03:04
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Oh, I don't have enough acetylene? Is that what you're saying? WELL WHAT NOW, GAME? DO I loving HAVE ENOUGH NOW!?
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Oct 6, 2021 05:49
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KillHour posted:Oh, I don't have enough acetylene? Is that what you're saying? You have enough, until you no longer have enough.
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Oct 6, 2021 06:31
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