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OwlFancier posted:Mostly it's just annoying that all they achieved was pulling stunts and getting their own protesters arrested. It seems less like a political organization and more like a viral marketing agency that uses human lives as fuel. I think that it is perhaps worth pointing out that the current stated Tory environmental policy is to ban petrol cars and completely decarbonise the grid within a little over a decade. I don’t think that is a policy that the Tory party would adopt of their own free will, so presumably _something_ is making them do so. it is not particularly obvious that XR is not that thing. Obviously what they absolutely are not is a spontaneous grass roots organization representing the immediate self interest of their members. They are a top-down creation of someone who came up with a plan and got others to go along with it. Which is inherently indistinguishable from ‘an op’. The interesting fact is not who the guy is, but what their argument is, and why people agree with it.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:08
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Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 17:17
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radmonger posted:I think that it is perhaps worth pointing out that the current stated Tory environmental policy is to ban petrol cars and completely decarbonise the grid within a little over a decade. I don’t think that is a policy that the Tory party would adopt of their own free will, so presumably _something_ is making them do so. it is not particularly obvious that XR is not that thing. I would suggest that this is just the tide of where the money is going worldwide, it would require more effort to stop than to just let it happen. Plus I don't think that people have particularly strong feelings one way or another about green energy in the UK, there are weirdos that hate wind farms sure but they hate looking at them more than the concept. Feelgood happy clappy eco friendliness is so mainstream nowadays that it is used to sell literally everything. Which is why XR annoys me, because all they do is big stunt protests that get people arrested but I don't think they are doing anything to accelerate actual change. It's just happy clappy poo poo that also puts people in prison. Besides, trotting out bollocks about how everything will be great and completely failing to deliver is an extremely tory policy. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 17:18
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Beefeater1980 posted:It’s the same posters though, so unless there’s soul transference at work there’s something more to it. It is normal and in fact common to use humour in bad or even intolerable situations? Like, depressed people are often very funny. Look at all good comedians, for example.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:21
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Regarde Aduck posted:IB and XR are so ops. Like i'm 99% sure which means nothing but you know. The only thing i'm not sure about is whether the people involved are in on it or if they're being manipulated, like all the stochastic terrorists that the FBI created so it could then arrest them. About a month or so ago Cressidia Dick said something like 'the leaders of XR need to get their members under control' which, to me at least, seemed like a very telling statement
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Oct 5, 2021 17:38
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OwlFancier posted:I would suggest that this is just the tide of where the money is going worldwide, it would require more effort to stop than to just let it happen. Plus I don't think that people have particularly strong feelings one way or another about green energy in the UK, there are weirdos that hate wind farms sure but they hate looking at them more than the concept. Feelgood happy clappy eco friendliness is so mainstream nowadays that it is used to sell literally everything. Which is why XR annoys me, because all they do is big stunt protests that get people arrested but I don't think they are doing anything to accelerate actual change. It's just happy clappy poo poo that also puts people in prison. Frankly - they are out there, doing something. Can you quibble about effectiveness? yes. Is it likely undercover police and domestic security is keeping a big eye on them? also yes. But they are trying something. And the UK is unusual in the commitment of the Tory party to a green agenda - as half-hearted as it is, it is far further than much of the US has gone, both centrist Democrat and Republican. It's more than Australia's conservatives commit to, or other anglosphere conservatives parties have done. If it's following the money, than the money in the UK has decided that moving in the green direction faster than the rest of the world. We talk plenty about the Overton Window here - and it's shifted pretty far to the left on enviromental policy over the past 10 years, whether XR was part of that shift or a symptom of it will never be fully answered.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:43
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I would probably suggest that the virtual nonexistence of UK heavy industry is probably a greater motivating factor. Australia is a massive exporter of coal, so obviously they are not going to like green policy because so much of their economy is tied up in opposing it. The US is similar, also their right wing have consciously cultivated opposition to green policy as a cultural signifier, along with guns and jesus and all the other dreadful poo poo they churn out. I don't think the right in the UK has ever really been pro-industry because historically a lot of the industrial base of the country has been tied up with the left. The right in the UK trends between maximum neolib and the whole one nation tory crap, both of which are entirely compatible with a consumer focused green agenda. Public transport bad but electric cars good, coal mining bad but wind farms we can hand out contracts for to our mates, good. I don't think they are particularly ecologically minded, they just see it as a valid marketing strategy, which it has been across a lot of the world for some time. And the UK doesn't have a particularly strong anti-green constituency because the right has never really bothered to cultivate it and it also wiped out most of the economic basis for one decades ago. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 17:54
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"Margaret Thatcher was ahead of her time on green issues" is a thing that has been said unironically by Tories in the past few years. Uncarbonically and unbrickally too.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:03
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radmonger posted:I think that it is perhaps worth pointing out that the current stated Tory environmental policy is to ban petrol cars and completely decarbonise the grid within a little over a decade. I don’t think that is a policy that the Tory party would adopt of their own free will, so presumably _something_ is making them do so. it is not particularly obvious that XR is not that thing. I don't understand any loving thing about this sorry Currently the Tories say that yeah we have an environmental policy sure why not, and it's basically, get rid of all the bad things you know, bring on the good things, timeline is like I dunno decade? Ish? Ok that's sorted then, now let's hit the fox hunting club. Where exactly is any of the required action to even try to accomplish any of this? (Or, hell, anything at all, since this is after all the Tories?)
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Oct 5, 2021 18:09
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Guavanaut posted:"Margaret Thatcher was ahead of her time on green issues" is a thing that has been said unironically by Tories in the past few years. Uncarbonically and unbrickally too. Yeah, and while I don't at all buy the idea that they're trying to sell that that was her motivation, I find it hard to argue against the idea that a significant effect of what she did was to strongly undermine any economic basis for anti-green policy in the UK.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:11
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A real difference between XR and IB is the scale of the demand - XR wanted a climate emergency declared, a national plan to solve the emergency and a citizens assembly (selected by sortition lol) to oversee the plan. It was a utopian list where an emergency was declared and then nothing happened, backed by an awful theory of power and a crap strategy. IB however have a much more direct demand which is also the whole program - get every home insulated. If the XR/IB strategy has any legs at all then IB will succeed because the direct action is sufficient to force the required change, otherwise IB and XR will fail in their mission. They'll then split off into either ecoterrorism or apathy, which will be good.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:21
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Guavanaut posted:"Margaret Thatcher was ahead of her time on green issues" is a thing that has been said unironically by Tories in the past few years. Uncarbonically and unbrickally too. “Hitler and Stalin were ahead of the game on the overpopulation crisis”
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Oct 5, 2021 18:48
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Frankly - (XR and IB) are out there, doing something. Can you quibble about effectiveness? yes. Is it likely undercover police and domestic security is keeping a big eye on them? also yes. But they are trying something. The issue I have with them is that there are environmental activists who would be protesting and taking action whether Extinction Rebellion existed or not who are being encouraged by Extinction Rebellion's leadership to graffiti something and then turn themselves into the police to be arrested. XR looks like an organisation made to take good people who want to make a difference in the world, and control them. There's no way it hasn't been infiltrated. And on the extreme off-chance that it hasn't, its tactics still suck. The police are not your friend and being arrested is not desirable.
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Oct 5, 2021 19:30
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I just bought some haribo snakes and the fuckers are like half the width what the gently caress is this I demand a government inquiry
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Oct 5, 2021 20:17
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Tesseraction posted:I just bought some haribo snakes and the fuckers are like half the width what the gently caress is this EU regulations stipulate a minimum snake girth, sorry that's all hosed now
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Oct 5, 2021 20:22
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im goign to make my own haribo snakes, massive ones
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Oct 5, 2021 21:16
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NotJustANumber99 posted:im goign to make my own haribo snakes, massive ones Why does this sound like a euphemism for having a poo poo?
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Oct 5, 2021 21:29
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a subconscious memory of my posting in general
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Oct 5, 2021 21:35
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MikeCrotch posted:I don't buy into the idea that XR is totally an op, though they are definitely infested with cops at this point. I would not be surprised if IB was the brainchild of state assets since blocking roads seems very dumb and is in fact a tactic XR moved away from due to it being not very effective. We get mad at xr for squandering literally millions of pounds on ineffective bullshit while we try and do good stuff with tens of pounds. E: Owl is, as usual, entirely on the money here. Big daft self-fellating bullshit Jakabite fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 21:40
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can't even have a good night out with tens of pounds
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Oct 5, 2021 21:44
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Tbf my coke budget was considerably higher than my activism budget when I was in London
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Oct 5, 2021 21:50
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FFS https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sajid-javid-health-nhs-family-b1932886.html quote:Sajid Javid says health and social care ‘begins at home’ and people should turn to family before NHS
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Oct 5, 2021 21:56
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just going to let my dad do my mums cholecystectomy on the kitchen table while i try to x-ray my foot with the fire alarm radioactive bits
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Oct 5, 2021 22:10
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Ahahahha they're going to do it, they're going to hit Starmer from the left on increasing the national living wage (just a recommendation not bound by law) https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1445502088461488147
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Oct 5, 2021 22:37
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Doccykins posted:Ahahahha they're going to do it, they're going to hit Starmer from the left on increasing the national living wage (just a recommendation not bound by law) The real government in waiting. Which is also the current government.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:42
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:FFS “If you do need support, we live in a compassionate, developed country that can afford to help with that. There are few higher callings than to care for another person.” "We won't pay for it, but we could."
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Oct 5, 2021 22:45
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People shouldn’t be too hard on XR. They were basically naive, otherwise largely un-ideological, and were unaware of how protesting really works. But they’re learning: https://twitter.com/xrebellionuk/status/1444205382981804032
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Oct 5, 2021 23:06
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I'd be mad, but while Labour burns and crashes, to throughly crush it the tories might accidentally do some good flanking from the left. Yeah it'll be a pale imitation of an actual left wing gov but honestly I'm half a mind that it'll be better than the shite new Labour 2.0 "free wet eggs and a signed postcard of Mandleson printed on the back of an ASBO" would do. gently caress, is this how people end up voting for the tories? Just complete lifelong disillusionment due to "the bins" Is Keith our Bins? gently caress. He is isn't he. I'm going to just draw a cock on my ballot.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:10
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Mebh posted:I'm going to just draw a cock on my ballot. Stop voting for the Tories.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:12
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Given the main thing that I got from new labour was student debt and the tories keep giving me wage increases, the choice is becoming increasingly one sided.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:14
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Comrade Fakename posted:People shouldn’t be too hard on XR. They were basically naive, otherwise largely un-ideological, and were unaware of how protesting really works. it would be a lot easier to support these kind of things if they didn't talk poo poo. "Farnborough caters to the 1%. Private flyers cause half of aviation’s global emissions." The claim is actually that 1% of the world's population account for half of aviation's global emissions. Not private flyers using places like loving Farnborough airport.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:16
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Stop voting for the Tories. I think these days it might just give all three major parties one vote.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:18
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Mebh posted:I think these days it might just give all three major parties one vote. There's 3 major parties now?
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Oct 5, 2021 23:19
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Failed Imagineer posted:There's 3 major parties now? You've never heard of the SNP?
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Oct 5, 2021 23:25
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not really interested in some amateurish off shoot tartan plaid cymru
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Oct 5, 2021 23:26
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Failed Imagineer posted:There's 3 major parties now? The conservatives, uuuuuh... Boris' dad... And everyone else?
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Oct 5, 2021 23:28
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:FFS Full-time carer for my mother and the Carer's Allowance they pay me is £3.5k a year. So, in short, gently caress off Sajid, and keep loving off until you cannot gently caress off anymore.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:39
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This is a nice bit of schad that some of you might have missed https://twitter.com/PaisleySteelman/status/1445356953035853827
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Oct 5, 2021 23:46
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Its a shame cos she was so good in look whose talking
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Oct 6, 2021 00:02
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NotJustANumber99 posted:it would be a lot easier to support these kind of things if they didn't talk poo poo. What? The 1% refers to the super rich. The people who have private jets. That make up half of aviation emissions.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:05
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