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I mean it’s entirely justifiable to infer that the populations were different due to desertification isolating parts of a once larger population in Africa But whether they are separate “species”?? The word doesn’t really mean anything so 🤷♂️ euphronius fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Oct 1, 2021 |
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Oct 1, 2021 16:10
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Going by acoup tho that might just be because elephants aren't exactly a winning warfare strategy. yeah they're great for fighting people who've never dealt with them before, especially for disabling cavalry by simply spooking the horses real bad, but they become a very nasty liability once your enemy figures out any kind of counterplay at all
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Oct 1, 2021 19:54
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Are elephants much good as a beast of burden? I wouldn't be surprised if their big stomping feet would screw up fields so it wouldn't be good for plowing, and I haven't heard much about elephants hauling big loads. As personal mounts, they're great for showing off or hosting a group of people at once, but horses are faster and more useful for just about everything else. And then their gestation period is really long so it's really impractical to do all that much with them in general. Definitely not a good rate of return for a food animal.
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Oct 1, 2021 20:23
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I read a book about pre-British India a while back and it pointed out that access to the elephant market of Eastern India was a real big thing to the rulers of the northern plain who didn't have wild elephants in their areas any more, but that might just have been because you needed a certain amount of elephants for diplomatic and ceremonial purposes, rather than any real wartime necessities (unlike with the horse market of the northwest which was obviously crucial for waging war)
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Oct 1, 2021 20:38
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Indian elephants get used for a bunch of labor work and were fairly useful in breaking down early fortifications.
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Oct 1, 2021 20:40
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SlothfulCobra posted:Are elephants much good as a beast of burden? I wouldn't be surprised if their big stomping feet would screw up fields so it wouldn't be good for plowing, and I haven't heard much about elephants hauling big loads. Elephants have proven useful for bursts of great strength (like ripping out big trees) but for regular transport no they just need too much food to be efficient.
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Oct 1, 2021 20:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Going by acoup tho that might just be because elephants aren't exactly a winning warfare strategy. Antigonus I. Monophthalmos probably thought so too. I just love the nicknames and titles of the Diadochoi. Antigonus "the one-eyed", Seleucus "the victor", Ptolemy "the savior", …
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Oct 1, 2021 22:06
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Telsa Cola posted:Indian elephants get used for a bunch of labor work and were fairly useful in breaking down early fortifications. I'm enjoying this mental image. Elephant just comes walking over to a barricaded position, pulling out posts and poo poo like "no. Nope. None of that. No fortifications, thank you."
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Oct 1, 2021 23:11
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Fish of hemp posted:Did you mean Kingdom of Heaven? I would agree, the director’s cut is a vastly different film and makes a whole lot more sense
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Oct 2, 2021 01:05
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euphronius posted:
I mean, for all that there are a lot of exceptions and edge cases, the word does have a precise definition, and that definition holds something like 99% of the time. And the three extant species of elephants do fit that definition, in that they never interbreed. (Apparently various extinct species of elephants did, but even then it was only with select other elephant species.) But saying that the word "species" doesn't really mean anything is pretty incorrect.
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Oct 2, 2021 03:06
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Just because its exact definition is more nuanced and contextual than high school made it out to be doesn't make it completely meaningless, much like "The Roman Empire."
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Oct 2, 2021 03:19
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Brawnfire posted:I'm enjoying this mental image. Elephant just comes walking over to a barricaded position, pulling out posts and poo poo like "no. Nope. None of that. No fortifications, thank you." Pretty much how it goes. Properly trained elephants are like having construction machinery thousands of years early. And while impractical for most purposes, riding around on an elephant is cool as gently caress.
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Oct 2, 2021 08:47
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*Taps microphone* Elephant cataphracts. With huge blades mounted to the tusks.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:23
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I don't think we can discount the usage of elephants in warfare just because they didn't perform super well against the Romans. They didn't fully disappear from European/Mediterranean warfare until humans extincted the tameable African species and the Med lost access to Indian elephants with the rise of Rome and the Parthians/Sassanids. India and Southeast Asia just kept on using them for another teo thousand years: that doesn't scream "ineffective" to me. They're more specialized than cavalry and a not insignificant part of their value is tied up in prestige, but they're effective on the battlefield too. I mean, in the ancient world Pyrrhus, Hannibal, and all the successors used them to good effect against disciplined opponents, including Rome, on multiple occasions. When elephantry fails, it usually involves charging them headlong into disciplined blocks of heavy infantry supported by missiles, which is also generally a bad idea to do with cavalry and we don't say horses are useless.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:31
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Another instance where we can relate to the German tanks of world war 2,big, heavy, and scary, but unreliable and prone to breakdowns and consuming a ton if resources. Also during the crossing of the alps, the snow got a lot of them, just like the invasion of the USSR
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Oct 6, 2021 01:37
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Chopstix posted:Another instance where we can relate to the German tanks of world war 2,big, heavy, and scary, but unreliable and prone to breakdowns and consuming a ton if resources. Also during the crossing of the alps, the snow got a lot of them, just like the invasion of the USSR And fire was an effective way of dealing with them.
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Oct 6, 2021 02:34
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FishFood posted:I don't think we can discount the usage of elephants in warfare just because they didn't perform super well against the Romans. They didn't fully disappear from European/Mediterranean warfare until humans extincted the tameable African species and the Med lost access to Indian elephants with the rise of Rome and the Parthians/Sassanids. India and Southeast Asia just kept on using them for another teo thousand years: that doesn't scream "ineffective" to me. They're more specialized than cavalry and a not insignificant part of their value is tied up in prestige, but they're effective on the battlefield too. Yes, exactly. Elephants were used in warfare up to the nineteenth century in Asia, and well into the twentieth century if you count various armies using them for transportation. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 02:38
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You cannot tell me somewhere in the 21st century that some warlord hasn't tried to put a machine gun on an elephant
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Oct 6, 2021 04:08
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guns are unfortunately pretty good against elephants
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Oct 6, 2021 04:11
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CoolCab posted:i think it was an earlier version of the thread (or maybe HoR? can't remember) that commented that it was the most roman solution to the naval problem imaginable: build a road at it and keep marching legions over that road at the problem until it surrenders or dies. Just saving this post for posterity. (Mine - uhh my grandparents)
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Oct 6, 2021 04:27
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Gaius Marius posted:You cannot tell me somewhere in the 21st century that some warlord hasn't tried to put a machine gun on an elephant 
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Oct 6, 2021 06:27
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Triceratops is the one dinosaur I always wished dodged the asteroid because it would be amazing to see an ancient army just bulldoze another with them. They’re like elephants with built shields and spears!
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Oct 6, 2021 08:13
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galagazombie posted:Triceratops is the one dinosaur I always wished dodged the asteroid because it would be amazing to see an ancient army just bulldoze another with them. They’re like elephants with built shields and spears! This, but with those huge S.American Murderbirds.
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Oct 6, 2021 08:40
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Molentik posted:This, but with those huge S.American Murderbirds. Giant murderbirds still exist. They’re called cassowaries.
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Oct 6, 2021 11:50
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A cassowary is just a turkey with delusions of grandeur. I could take one
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Oct 6, 2021 11:51
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Gaius Marius posted:A cassowary is just a turkey with delusions of grandeur. I could take one Take a look at their razor sharp claws again, friend. 
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Oct 6, 2021 12:51
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That's the "wary" part
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Oct 6, 2021 13:11
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wikipedia only cites three recorded deaths, i think emus have more kills than that.
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Oct 6, 2021 13:21
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CoolCab posted:guns are unfortunately pretty good ———— elephants Fixed https://youtu.be/8c0Kugn_y0w
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Oct 6, 2021 14:11
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Molentik posted:This, but with those huge S.American Murderbirds.
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Oct 6, 2021 14:18
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How to Invent Everything routinely brought up giant wombats as an ideal candidate for domestication and companionship
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Oct 6, 2021 14:25
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FishFood posted:I mean, in the ancient world Pyrrhus, Hannibal, and all the successors used them to good effect against disciplined opponents, including Rome, on multiple occasions. When elephantry fails, it usually involves charging them headlong into disciplined blocks of heavy infantry supported by missiles, which is also generally a bad idea to do with cavalry and we don't say horses are useless. The real problem with elephants is logistical. Elephants need a lot more food and more human handlers than horses do, plus they’re impossible to breed in captivity.
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Oct 6, 2021 15:50
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And the last cassowary death in like 1910 was a child, killed after the victims brother tried to hit the cassowary with a stick. They can defend themselves well with and even kill with their claws but their ferocity is exagerrated, leave them alone and they will respond in kind.
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Oct 6, 2021 17:03
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Falukorv posted:And the last cassowary death in like 1910 was a child, killed after the victims brother tried to hit the cassowary with a stick. They can defend themselves well with and even kill with their claws but their ferocity is exagerrated, leave them alone and they will respond in kind. drat, that cassowary sent a loving message.
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Oct 6, 2021 17:04
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FishFood posted:I don't think we can discount the usage of elephants in warfare just because they didn't perform super well against the Romans. They didn't fully disappear from European/Mediterranean warfare until humans extincted the tameable African species and the Med lost access to Indian elephants with the rise of Rome and the Parthians/Sassanids. India and Southeast Asia just kept on using them for another teo thousand years: that doesn't scream "ineffective" to me. They're more specialized than cavalry and a not insignificant part of their value is tied up in prestige, but they're effective on the battlefield too. https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-1761.html
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Oct 6, 2021 17:10
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The first iterations of those were very well known for not having a machinegun on them, which proved to be a bit of a problem 
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Oct 6, 2021 17:33
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Falukorv posted:And the last cassowary death in like 1910 was a child, killed after the victims brother tried to hit the cassowary with a stick. They can defend themselves well with and even kill with their claws but their ferocity is exagerrated, leave them alone and they will respond in kind. One killed a dude in Florida just a couple of years ago.
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Oct 6, 2021 17:35
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Mr. Nice! posted:One killed a dude in Florida just a couple of years ago. It isn't really fair to count Florida men though. They're killed by everything eventually.
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Oct 6, 2021 17:56
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Florida man does not die, he will rise again stronger, with a lust for avian blood.
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Oct 6, 2021 17:56
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If I die by a bird I’d be so embarrassed that I would prefer it be reported I died from an impacted bowel movement. loving oversized general tsao chicken platter.
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Oct 6, 2021 20:17
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