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Arc Hammer posted:It's much easier to travel a hyperspace path that has been charted than it is to plot a jump to an unknown location. You can't just aim at a star, jump to lightspeed and end up at your destination. Which all went out the window when "hyperspace skipping" was introduced in Last Skywalker.
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Oct 5, 2021 12:29
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Han plotted a jump into a planet which seems just as bullshit.
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Oct 5, 2021 12:56
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Yes, yes it was. I had completely forgotten about "just stay in hyperspace until you're under the planetary shield". Sure would have been nice for Han to have done that 30 years ago at Endor.
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Oct 5, 2021 16:00
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Things are possible that weren't possible 30 years ago?! This will not stand!
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Oct 5, 2021 16:11
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In Star Wars? Pretty sure most of their tech is still plug and play with stuff from 50,000 years ago. Also, Han used the Falcon for that stunt. A ship which, at that point, had been sitting in a desert for most of those 30 years after being stolen almost immediately after Return of the Jedi. He literally did not have time to do anything to the ship beyond maybe some light vacuuming to get the sand out of the seat cushions. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 17:44
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Yes, yes it was. It's the Deathstar 2 that had the shield and how would it have helped for him to jump behind it back then? He still has to take the Falcon into the core to blow it up on his own. Doesn't seem like a very Han thing to try and do at the time.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:45
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Shield projector for the Death Star was on the surface of Endor, hence the whole mission to blow it up.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:46
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Ya but there wasn't a shield up around the forest moon though, ya clanker.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:49
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It was around the shield generator right down to ground level, which you can see in the above image. This is why the commando team had to fly to the surface, then walk. They had no other way of getting inside the shield. If Han had used the hyperspace jump inside the shield, he could have flown right down to the surface, shot up the shield generator, then flown back up to the Death Star. I mean, it's not a difficult concept. It's just that the EDIT: Wrong set of three lovely movies. I meant, "sequels" not "prequels" \/\/\/ That's it in a nutshell. Stupid, but pretty and sells lots of tickets and toys is all Abrahms cares about. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 17:52
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JJ Abrams does not know or care how distances in space work, or about established in-universe FTL travel rules. I'm still mad about "Earth to Vulcan in eight minutes" from Star Trek 2009.
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Oct 5, 2021 17:54
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The energy shield was projected FROM the shield generator underground through that enormous dish on the surface, it didn't surround the entire bunker complex. The rebels were working with what scant intel Manny Bothans managed to get to them so the briefing hologram was a simplified diagram for the sake of prepping everyone for the assault. It's not meant to be a 1:1 representation because If it was, the projection of the path to the core of Deathstar 2 would have been accurate instead of basically a straight tunnel with a few ups and downs. The ground assault was due to the fact that they had to get inside the bunker to destroy it. Having Han lightspeed onto the surface and mow a bunch of trees then foot slog it to the generator defeats the purpose of the mission and takes the Falcon away from the surprise attack on the Deathstar. I'm just saying, his plan from Awakens wouldn't have retroactively done anything had he done it in Jedi. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Oct 5, 2021 |
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Oct 5, 2021 18:03
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Its been established that you come out of hyperspace lanes at varying distances from their "entrance/exit". Multiple times in Clone Wars and Rebels (and I think maybe once in Bad Batch?) there is a mission where they make a big deal about coming out and basically appearing right under a ship, avoiding detection instead at the natural egress. Its just known that its very dangerous and requires a level of precision even excellent pilots may not have. If the hyperspace skipping thing is just an extension of that, its believable in universe, just taken to its extreme.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:08
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"Hyperspace Skipping" takes out the calculations part of the feat. Which Han specifically mentions in A New Hope as being very important. It was dumb and we should just ignore the Sequel Trilogy like an awkward fever dream.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:15
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AndyElusive posted:The ground assault was due to the fact that they had to get inside the bunker to destroy it. Having Han lightspeed onto the surface and mow a bunch of trees then foot slog it to the generator defeats the purpose of the mission and takes the Falcon away from the surprise attack on the Deathstar. No, I'm saying that once inside the shield, there was effectively a safe "cone" leading down from space to the surface, which we can see in the image - and which presumably the rebel commandos flew down in their stolen shuttle. Once inside that cone, Han could have simply flown right down to the shield generator array which would have sat there like a bullseye. It's a huge dish sticking up from the surface and, if you're inside the shield, easy to shoot at. No flying along the ground required. No massive sacrifice of ships and lives waiting for it to go down. Han flies in, shoots the array, rest of fleet arrives, Sheev shits his pants. But all that relies on the incredibly stupid contrivance of a ship being able to come out of hyperspace inside a shield, which seems like a problem that shield designers would have tried to solve in the preceding 50,000 years of galactic civilisation.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:28
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You can't "solve" that problem as a shield designer, because the ship does not cross the boundary of the shield when it's in hyperspace. It simply appears inside. And no, I don't care that all the ships exiting hyperspace in Star Wars always look like they are slowing down along a line.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:31
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AndyElusive posted:It's the Deathstar 2 that had the shield and how would it have helped for him to jump behind it back then? He still has to take the Falcon into the core to blow it up on his own. Doesn't seem like a very Han thing to try and do at the time. On the other hand, fire Misfit Squadron at it and either they calculate the timing right and end up inside the shield ready to rock orrrr they get the Holdo Maneuver named after them instead 
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Oct 5, 2021 18:31
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hyperspace skipping is 100% fine as a concept, but there just needed to be more appropriate levels of "this is risky" from the characters. I think they handled it ok with the TFA plan, and it rekt up the falcon.
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Oct 5, 2021 18:42
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Megillah Gorilla posted:No, I'm saying that once inside the shield, there was effectively a safe "cone" leading down from space to the surface, which we can see in the image - and which presumably the rebel commandos flew down in their stolen shuttle. I concede that's definitely the kind of player character scheme that would have royally hosed my plans had the finale of Jedi been an RPG campaign I was DM'ing.
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Oct 5, 2021 19:02
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Moon Slayer posted:JJ Abrams does not know or care how distances in space work, or about established in-universe FTL travel rules. I'm still mad about "Earth to Vulcan in eight minutes" from Star Trek 2009. Hyperspace and warp speed have always functioned as the plot demands, so it’s kind of a silly thing to get angry about. And no, I don’t care about whatever charts were in the TNG tech manual because all that poo poo is a distant secondary to plot convenience or film tension.
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Oct 5, 2021 19:31
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Yes, yes it was. That maneuver actually originates from the rough draft of Return of the Jedi, though Han used it to bypass the Imperial fleet rather than to get inside the shield specifically.
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Oct 5, 2021 19:51
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Robot Style posted:That maneuver actually originates from the rough draft of Return of the Jedi, though Han used it to bypass the Imperial fleet rather than to get inside the shield specifically. Thats interesting, overall I feel like the ST group/lucasfilm's insistence on dredging up every old McQuarrie design or old cut script bit a little grating now.
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Oct 5, 2021 20:38
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Hyperspace and warp speed have always functioned as the plot demands, so it’s kind of a silly thing to get angry about. There's bending the established rules a little for the sake of plot and then there's putting in stuff that makes no logical sense, like how in TFA they could see Hosni getting blown up from a completely different solar system. Abrams' films have gotten as egregious about that sort of thing as the Transformers movies.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:51
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Jerkface posted:Thats interesting, overall I feel like the ST group/lucasfilm's insistence on dredging up every old McQuarrie design or old cut script bit a little grating now.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:52
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Moon Slayer posted:JJ Abrams does not know or care how distances in space work, or about established in-universe FTL travel rules. I'm still mad about "Earth to Vulcan in eight minutes" from Star Trek 2009. FTL in Star Wars has always been at the speed of Plot, but yeah if JJ were to go back in time and direct A New Hope he'd for sure include a scene where Luke looks up into the bright daytime sky on Tatooine and sees Alderaan explode as if it was close enough to be in orbit
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Oct 5, 2021 23:00
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If JJ Abrams directed ANH, I feel like there’d be scenes in the final battle of several Jawa sandcrawlers inexplicably charging out of nowhere across the surface of the Death Star, with the occupants screaming vengeance for their murdered kin. Their fate after the Death Star blows up is addressed only in an offhand comment by mission control that the jawas are safe.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:09
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I think part of the problem is that back when the original films were made the pace of cinema let you have those moments of 'all wings form up and report in' where you would build tension as the immediate prelude to a battle sequence. Then Michael Bay happened and Hollywood decided that pacing is for suckers and if it's an action sequence then it has to be full speed all of the time.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:12
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One of the most exciting dogfight sequences is the final battle in Top Gun and like half of that is CIC listening to guys yelling and Tom Cruise waiting to launch. If Top Gun can build tension better than you, you're bad.
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Oct 6, 2021 01:14
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Slashrat posted:If JJ Abrams directed ANH, I feel like there’d be scenes in the final battle of several Jawa sandcrawlers inexplicably charging out of nowhere across the surface of the Death Star, with the occupants screaming vengeance for their murdered kin. Their fate after the Death Star blows up is addressed only in an offhand comment by mission control that the jawas are safe. I can see their parachutes! They'll be alright.
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Oct 6, 2021 01:46
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Slashrat posted:If JJ Abrams directed ANH, I feel like there’d be scenes in the final battle of several Jawa sandcrawlers inexplicably charging out of nowhere across the surface of the Death Star, with the occupants screaming vengeance for their murdered kin. Their fate after the Death Star blows up is addressed only in an offhand comment by mission control that the jawas are safe. Voiceover: Everybody, the Jawas are OK! They woke up as soon as Golobulous died.
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Oct 6, 2021 02:34
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Poe looking dead eyed at the camera: Somehow, the Jawas returned
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Oct 6, 2021 02:47
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Moose King posted:FTL in Star Wars has always been at the speed of Plot, but yeah if JJ were to go back in time and direct A New Hope he'd for sure include a scene where Luke looks up into the bright daytime sky on Tatooine and sees Alderaan explode as if it was close enough to be in orbit I dunno - he did do the exact same "come out of lightspeed in the middle of a debris field" gag in his first Star Trek movie, so he might just keep that the way it is, especially since there's already a protagonist POV character in Leia who's able to witness it. There would definitely be some fuckery with Obi-Wan giving Luke a mind-meld Force vision to show it to him though.
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Oct 6, 2021 03:04
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Moon Slayer posted:There's bending the established rules a little for the sake of plot and then there's putting in stuff that makes no logical sense, like how in TFA they could see Hosni getting blown up from a completely different solar system. Abrams' films have gotten as egregious about that sort of thing as the Transformers movies. lol at this bullshit from Wookiepeedia: quote:The massive sub-hyperspace ripple created by the destruction of the system made the event visible in real time around the galaxy, including the planets of Takodana and Vardos. Though reading the wiki about it does say all the planets blown up were in the Hosnian system, including the capital of the New Republic, which just happened to bear a striking resemblance to Coruscant. I had always thought they were blowing up planets in multiple different systems which is even stupider.
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Oct 6, 2021 08:37
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Alchenar posted:I think part of the problem is that back when the original films were made the pace of cinema let you have those moments of 'all wings form up and report in' where you would build tension as the immediate prelude to a battle sequence. Then Michael Bay happened and Hollywood decided that pacing is for suckers and if it's an action sequence then it has to be full speed all of the time. Probably my favourite part of all of Star Wars is Tatooine in the first film. It's (relatively) slow, (relatively) quiet worldbuilding, and it gives you an extended opportunity to marinate in this weird universe and use your imagination. I can't imagine what it must've been like in 1977.
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Oct 6, 2021 09:24
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It seems to have just been the thing to do in the 70's. Alien was the same in that the actual danger doesn't manifest until well over halfway through the movie, and the time spent up to that point was just the crew cautiously probing the mystery they are faced with and unwittingly stepping closer to their doom in the process.
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Oct 6, 2021 12:51
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Megillah Gorilla posted:lol at this bullshit from Wookiepeedia:
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Oct 6, 2021 13:51
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Sombrerotron posted:I never understood why the New Republic capital wasn't Coruscant to begin with. I bet the thought process just boiled down to "well blowing up Coruscant would be going a bit far wouldn't it", and, well, I mean Wasn’t the politics of the new republic more like a 50/50 two state system between the non-fasc empire government structure and the free republic now somehow co-existing? I imagine coruscant would remain mainly empire leaning so the republic would need a different hub
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Oct 6, 2021 13:53
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Sombrerotron posted:I never understood why the New Republic capital wasn't Coruscant to begin with. I bet the thought process just boiled down to "well blowing up Coruscant would be going a bit far wouldn't it", and, well, I mean I'm sure if you went back 200 hundred years ago and told people that there was a European union and asked them where the capital was... Brussels wouldn't be their first, second, third, fourth, or fifth guess.
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Oct 6, 2021 13:58
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Sombrerotron posted:I never understood why the New Republic capital wasn't Coruscant to begin with. I bet the thought process just boiled down to "well blowing up Coruscant would be going a bit far wouldn't it", and, well, I mean I don't think it's mentioned ever in any of the movies, but it sure as hell looked like Coruscant.  EDIT: Yep, wookiepedie once again to the rescue: quote:Information about the planet and its status within the New Republic was elaborated upon in the reference book Star Wars: The Force Awakens: The Visual Dictionary I bet they wanted to blow up Coruscant, but decided after the fact it would impact other future properties and walked it back. But the beam splitting up never made sense to me. Starkiller can already shoot any planet in the galaxy, having it shoot multiple planets at once is just overkill. EDIT: I forgot there was a whole cut plotline about Leia sending an envoy to the Republic to warn them. But all that's left of that is a brief shot of a whole bunch of people who are Very Important and who we'd never seen before: 
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Oct 6, 2021 14:28
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Also they didn't drain their sun shooting multiple planets but taking out the resistance base was going to take all their juice.
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Oct 6, 2021 14:32
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Moon Slayer posted:Also they didn't drain their sun shooting multiple planets but taking out the resistance base was going to take all their juice. They wanted a manifesto, not a statement.
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Oct 6, 2021 14:48
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