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Thanks everyone for your help!
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Oct 7, 2021 21:33
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Space Opera posted:the good news is that exp leylines take like 15 minutes to use all of your daily resin if you're at the point where you can condense it.
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Oct 7, 2021 21:44
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I've backed myself into a corner, so everyone can laugh at me. I've got 7 more characters to max out the friendship for (Lisa, Xinyan) Aloy, Kujoh Sara, Raiden, Rosaria, and Keqing. Two of them just live in the teaoot and I'll never play them but the rest is electro and I don't even know how to build a good team to begin with because I used Razor superconduct for 5 WL's and never learned how reactions worked or what elemental mastery does.Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Also, supposedly there's another leyline doubling event happening soon (2.2?) which will make that even more efficient. Yeah, but they only let you do 3 at max so that's barely a boost
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Oct 7, 2021 21:56
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I've been out of mora, books, and ores for like a month now just raising everything I have. That'll probably stay the same for awhile since I do want Thoma and the three Geo boys.
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Oct 7, 2021 21:58
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Electro reactions don't exist. You just use it against the pool of enemies that don't resist or counter it in some way and feel grateful you're allowed to use it at all. I take it back, there's one very relevant electro reaction, swirl.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:00
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Yeah, Electro is basically non-elemental as far as reactions go (sort of similar to Geo). If anything it synergizes with itself because the more electro you have on your team the faster everyone's burst charges and electro characters tend to like that a lot. VV Swirl is the only reaction that can increase damage, but that works the same as everything else. Elemental mastery is completely useless for Electro.
Clarste fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 22:06
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does superconduct not count or something
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Oct 7, 2021 22:07
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padijun posted:does superconduct not count or something Superconduct doesn't help characters who deal Electro damage, it helps physical damage dealers (and they said they already knew how to use Razor). You don't want Superconduct on an Electro team because it's the weakest reaction in the game.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:09
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Superconduct is just bad swirl, so the best electro reaction by far, and is useless for using non-razor electro characters which the poster wanted to dip into. (Phys Keq is I hope well and truly dead at this point)
No Wave fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 22:10
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Clarste posted:Superconduct doesn't help characters who deal Electro damage, it helps physical damage dealers (and they said they already knew how to use Razor). You don't want Superconduct on an Electro team because it's the weakest reaction in the game. my bad, I was responding to the post above yours
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Oct 7, 2021 22:11
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Watch them make Electro-Dendro into Freeze 2 complete with a new Blizzard Strayer-alike (i.e. all crits all day) for one of those elements.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:11
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The secret to electro is to take advantage of the fact that hydro and electro can be on a mob at the same time. This is how Raiden national team, Sucrose taser, and Thundering Fury Bennett work so well.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:15
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Are the chili-minced cornbread based on anything real? I would really want to try them.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:17
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the way electrocharged works you can definitely make a case for electro also having a "cause a lot of reactions" identity, but nothing really works with that in a meaningful way since only fishl cares about causing reactions and even then she has a .5 ICD on triggering her passive. lots of strong teams make good use out of it, even though it isn't super impactful number wise. shenhe would have been cryo + spear so she wouldn't cause shatter (and was supposed be a physical damage character) so she probably would have been able to use blizzard strayer and superconduct at the same time.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:21
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While it's not a big domain performer, Overload is great for doing your dailies and leylines. Especially in Inazuma, nothing gets launched very far in Inazuma.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:26
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No Wave posted:Are the chili-minced cornbread based on anything real? I would really want to try them.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:26
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Endorph posted:the cornbread is wotou, a type of cornbread bun. theyre common as side dishes or snacks. seems like the dish is just a chinese beef chili with the wotou as a side dish. liyue, birthplace of bugles
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Oct 7, 2021 22:38
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Endorph posted:the cornbread is wotou, a type of cornbread bun. theyre common as side dishes or snacks. seems like the dish is just a chinese beef chili with the wotou as a side dish.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:41
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No Wave posted:Are the chili-minced cornbread based on anything real? I would really want to try them. There are people who made real life recipes for a bunch of Genshin food items https://www.hoyolab.com/article/239764 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJKRrLCcSE0 a lot of Liyue food is just standard Chinese cooking with a twist or two
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Oct 7, 2021 22:49
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Also for reference, at AR45 (when people recommend you start focusing on grinding/start spending resin), it takes at most 660 resin to get a character from level 1 to level 70 if you focus solely on leylines and only use exp gained from them. This is about 4-5 days of natural resin , or about 11 fragile resin. This can go down depending on your RNG with drops. At AR50 onwards, it's 560, which is about 3-4 days of natural resin, or about 9 fragile resin. This isn't exactly a huge investment of resources. Of course, you'd rather focus on artifact grinding, but if you want to use a different character, spending a few days focusing on leveling them isn't the end of the world. Plus there's a bunch of non-leyline sources of incidental EXP. It's also worth noting EXP needed per level drastically spikes around level 50-60. If you're this early on, it literally takes like 60-80 resin later on to get a character to level 40. It's a really insignificant amount of investment. You aren't bricking your account by messing around or anything.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:54
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I do have a newfound appreciation for Electro-Charged as a way of nearly guaranteeing Xiangling vapes. Side note, I now have a satisfying setup for quickly dumping resin in the Dragonspine domain https://i.imgur.com/8Dbnlxy.mp4
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Oct 7, 2021 23:08
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Raiden+Eula is a crazy good combo and superconduct beefs up Eula's hits like nothing else. Eula's burst charges up Raiden's burst nicely too. Electro may not be great in general but anything that makes Eula hit even harder is awesome plus the effect makes it look like she's slicing through the fabric of reality or something.
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Oct 7, 2021 23:26
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Baiard posted:I've been out of mora, books, and ores for like a month now just raising everything I have. That'll probably stay the same for awhile since I do want Thoma and the three Geo boys. Running out of your battle pass is like winter coming in Game of Thrones. Sometimes it goes by fast and sometimes it feels like the sun is never going to come back.
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Oct 7, 2021 23:28
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In the last week I've gotten two 5* pyro cups in the severed fate set that have both flat hp and hp%, plus a third SF pyro cup with atk%/ crt dmg/em/flat hp where every roll went to hp. I think mihoyo is sending me subliminal messages to roll hard on Thoma.
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Oct 8, 2021 00:16
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RareAcumen posted:I've backed myself into a corner, so everyone can laugh at me. I've got 7 more characters to max out the friendship for (Lisa, Xinyan) Aloy, Kujoh Sara, Raiden, Rosaria, and Keqing. Two of them just live in the teaoot and I'll never play them but the rest is electro and I don't even know how to build a good team to begin with because I used Razor superconduct for 5 WL's and never learned how reactions worked or what elemental mastery does. It sounds like you've got a mix of Cryo/Electro so sticking with Superconduct to enable Physical does seem like the most obvious solution even though, as multiple people have said, it's not especially strong. How reaction damage works:
The difference between multiplicative vs. additive: let's say you have two values, A and B. Let's also say that you calculate them together to get damage. If the calculation is multiplicative, then A x B = DMG. If the calculation is additive, then A + B = DMG. Now, let's say (arbitrarily) that A = 20 and B = 1. In the multiplicative case, you have 20 x 1 = 20 DMG. In the additive case, you have 20 + 1 = 21 DMG. Pretty close, right? Now we think about how to "improve" the damage in each case. If we increase the value of A—let's say we add on 20—not much changes. If A = 40 and B = 1, the numbers are still roughly even (40x1=40, 40+1=41). However, if we increase the value of B instead (by the same amount we increased A before!) the multiplicative case's damage skyrockets (20x21=420) while the additive case's damage stays small (20+21=41). Multiplicative calculations tend to be more "powerful" when value is spread across the numbers being multiplied, and they tend to be "weaker" when value is mostly stacked in one number. Plus, the more numbers there are being multiplied, the bigger the increase. Let's say we can spread those 41 "points" of value across three numbers instead of two. Spread them evenly for the biggest effect, and we get a number way larger (13x14x14=2548) than our previous two-number multiplicative case (20x21=420). This is, essentially, why having attack, crit, and elemental damage values in the damage calculation is so strong, and why having just EM and character level is pretty weak. "But what about Swirl? That's also an EM/level reaction." Anemo characters have two unique benefits: they can spread around elements and they have access to the Viridescent Venerer set, which allows them to lower the enemy resistance against whatever element gets caught in the Swirl. The former quality lets them create a ton of elemental reactions in one hit and/or spread around an element that might be useful for the reactions of the rest of your team. The latter quality can boost the damage of the rest of your team significantly if they share the elemental type you Swirled. Swirl would be just as bad as the other EM/level reactions without these features.
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Oct 8, 2021 01:31
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You forgot to mention that Elemental mastery also increases the multiplier for Melt and Vaporize.
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Oct 8, 2021 01:47
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Clarste posted:You forgot to mention that Elemental mastery also increases the multiplier for Melt and Vaporize. Yeah. EM falls shy compared to crit rate/dmg in vape builds, but having it as a substat is always a plus.
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Oct 8, 2021 02:49
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If there ever way a hydro/puro/cryo character that COULDN'T crit, then EM would be a great damage stat to have on them! But all of those characters can crit, which is good because crits are actually multiplied by the reaction modifier.
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Oct 8, 2021 02:51
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ninjoatse.cx posted:If there ever way a hydro/puro/cryo character that COULDN'T crit, then EM would be a great damage stat to have on them! Kokomi.
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Oct 8, 2021 03:01
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i just assume  but we already struggle under split atk/hp & heal scaling, you can't add EM to that too
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Oct 8, 2021 03:08
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Clarste posted:You forgot to mention that Elemental mastery also increases the multiplier for Melt and Vaporize. That's true, though it has less impact in Melt/Vaporize than in Overloaded/Superconduct/Electro-Charged/Swirl/Shattered. Primarily I didn't want to get lost in the weeds of detailing all the various multiplicative bonuses when the thrust of the difference between the types is that the EM/level reactions only have one value you can build for (EM) so increasing damage is basically additive (EM + more EM) as opposed to the various stats of Melt/Vaporize you can build in tandem (attack x elemental damage x crit damage). Actually getting into the weeds, for anyone interested: the EM bonus for both reaction types is A + [EM/(EM + B)], where A and B are two constant values. In Melt/Vaporize, A = 278 and B = 1400. For all the other damage-dealing reactions*, A = 1600 and B = 2000. In both types, the resulting "%EM Bonus" is fed into the following equation: Base Reaction Multiplier x (1 + %EM Bonus + %Reaction Bonus). "Base Reaction Multiplier" is a constant value determined by which reaction is occurring (and, in the case of Melt/Vaporize, which one is the triggering element—this is where the "reverse melt" stuff comes from). "%Reaction Bonus" is a rare kind of damage bonus; specifically, this is where the effects of 4pc Crimson Witch and Thundering Fury get slotted into damage calculations. In Overloaded/Superconduct/Electro-charged/Shattered, what you get out of that equation is further multiplied by your level. In Melt/Vaporize, what comes out is used to multiply your existing damage. (I don't think I need to clarify which of those two values—damage or character level—is typically larger, right?) *Melt/Vaporize reactions caused by Swirl actually have a more complicated equation, which I have discovered while writing up this post. Essentially, the "existing damage" that you would be using for a basic Melt/Vaporize reaction is instead replaced by the whole damage calculation used for Overloaded, Electro-Charged, etc. What this means in practice is that you have EM in two different multiplicative values when calculating Melt/Vaporize damage caused by Swirl. Raising EM raises the result of both parts of the equation; they get multiplied together and you get big returns for stacking one value. This is another reason why Swirl and Melt/Vaporize are "better" than the other reactions.
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Oct 8, 2021 03:38
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Of course if you're going to talk about Reverse Melt you need to talk about Elemental Application Units or whatever the heck we're calling them. U. To be honest I don't think the whole thing was very well thought-out by the devs. They definitely weren't taking into account situations where characters with high level, optimized artifacts were trying to maximize their damage. At the very least it's bizarre that Reverse Melt and Reverse Vaporize are generally considered better.
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Oct 8, 2021 03:44
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Clarste posted:Superconduct doesn't help characters who deal Electro damage, it helps physical damage dealers (and they said they already knew how to use Razor). You don't want Superconduct on an Electro team because it's the weakest reaction in the game. I never understood the electro hate until I started gearing Yanfei with full crimson witch so I could pair her with Fischl for constant overloads. A fine idea on paper but wasn't making big numbers
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Oct 8, 2021 03:49
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Overload comps are only for the pretty explosions and I guess more damage against geo barriers/shields? It's bad. All electro reactions are pretty bad unless you're running a physical dps to get some use out of superconduct. They really need to let electro stack on itself or something. All electro characters tend to have rapid applications, so let that tie into the element's gimmick by having it buff itself instead of needing a reaction to do so. Maybe stacks of electro could "discharge" to apply a multiplier on the damage of a reaction based on the stacks consumed?
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Oct 8, 2021 04:23
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Clarste posted:At the very least it's bizarre that Reverse Melt and Reverse Vaporize are generally considered better. That's just because of the characters that we wound up getting and the weird cooldowns that some of them get on specific abilities. A whole lot about the early design makes me think they were playtesting an entirely different game.
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Oct 8, 2021 04:48
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Clarste posted:Of course if you're going to talk about Reverse Melt you need to talk about Elemental Application Units or whatever the heck we're calling them. U. They're only considered better because you need 2 gauge of pyro to clear 1 gauge of hydro, but 1 gauge of hydro clears up two gauges of pyro. Same of cryo into pyro. So while you get 50% more damage from doing the strong side reaction, you also have to contend with having enough application of pyro/cryo to vape/melt off of. And if you screw up, and the strong-side element becomes the underlying aura, then it's going to take a lot of work to clear it off, and that's lost DPS. There's no single unit capable of applying enough gauge to facilitate a strong-side reaction DPS, you need some weird teams like Hutao/Kaeya/Diona/Xingqiu, where you're doubling down on cryo application and also getting hydro in there to prevent pyro from becoming the aura element. Mailer posted:That's just because of the characters that we wound up getting and the weird cooldowns that some of them get on specific abilities. A whole lot about the early design makes me think they were playtesting an entirely different game. Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Oct 8, 2021 |
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Oct 8, 2021 05:31
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the equivalent of blizzard strayer but for overload instead of freeze would probably be a good addition. i want to say id prefer something that would work only on catalyst/bow characters, since i kinda like the anti-synergy between pyro and electro units as a concept (units are too heavy now for this to matter, but the ranged characters could use some more love anyways imo.) the cryo resonance has a similar effect of not really wanting pyro in those teams, and adding blizzard strayer really brought those comps to life. they kinda drip-fed new artifact sets throughout 1.x so maybe in the next few patches we'll see a few more. they seem to really like adding 2 domains at a time for reasons i can't really comprehend.
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Oct 8, 2021 05:34
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Bloody Emissary posted:It sounds like you've got a mix of Cryo/Electro so sticking with Superconduct to enable Physical does seem like the most obvious solution even though, as multiple people have said, it's not especially strong. Yeah beforehand all I knew was that Diluc and Xingqiu were part of the best team for dealing damage in the game and then I tried it out myself and found it severely lackluster. Only having about 137 crdmg on Diluc didn't help though. Mainly I just can't wrap my head around any part of this stuff, reverse melt and vaporize and all that stuff, I don't know where to even start. I don't even have Mona geared up to do 100k damage with her burst or really understand how that works so I'm really lost. All I know is that vaporize is the best one of the bunch. Also I see little videos like this and I get jealous because I get about 17k from Eula's skill and that's about the most damage I get in general. gandlethorpe posted:https://i.imgur.com/80syVxH.mp4
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Oct 8, 2021 05:42
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah beforehand all I knew was that Diluc and Xingqiu were part of the best team for dealing damage in the game and then I tried it out myself and found it severely lackluster. Only having about 137 crdmg on Diluc didn't help though. Who are your built up characters? Maybe we can help take the guess work out of it for you. To be honest, most of my good comps just came from discovering them from somewhere else.
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Oct 8, 2021 06:35
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ninjoatse.cx posted:Who are your built up characters? Maybe we can help take the guess work out of it for you. To be honest, most of my good comps just came from discovering them from somewhere else. I have a decent Xingqiu, Fischl, Albedo, and Noelle. Ningguang and Eula are solid and if I swap Eula's artifacts then Chongyun and Razor's good. And I'm just basing that on those being the characters that can go fight enemies and not take 3 minutes to finish a Kairagi battle. I'm missing Yanfei, Sayu, Ayaka, Kokomi, Hu Tao, Qiqi, Childe and Xiao. I just don't really know how to get damage out of people, I'm considering 10k on anyone but Ningguang, Xingqiu and Eula good right now and I'm at WL8. Most everyone's at lvl 70 now, I just don't have enough artifacts for everybody. The spreadsheet tells you good artifact sets but I could use talent and stats too because I'm dense.
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Oct 8, 2021 06:46
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