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kaom posted:I would like to find the same on the island (no suite), and A) it’s hard, so many listings have recently-added crappy suites to bump the price and appeal of the home, and B) everyone thinks I’m a giant idiot. They also think I’m an idiot for wanting to sell our small condo when we move, instead of keeping it to rent out. TBH we only really need something like a 3-bedroom or a townhouse, but it’s prohibitively stressful and expensive and risky to move so we’re just going straight to looking at SFHs so we never need to buy property again. If I had a home and children. I'd prefer that prices drop so my kid could buy on their own versus having my place sky rocket in value but require my kid to hit me up to get in a place.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:53
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kaom posted:I would like to find the same on the island (no suite), and A) it’s hard, so many listings have recently-added crappy suites to bump the price and appeal of the home, and B) everyone thinks I’m a giant idiot. They also think I’m an idiot for wanting to sell our small condo when we move, instead of keeping it to rent out. TBH we only really need something like a 3-bedroom or a townhouse, but it’s prohibitively stressful and expensive and risky to move so we’re just going straight to looking at SFHs so we never need to buy property again. At the end of the summer we went through the process and found a detached SFH in Victoria proper. It was implied many times by our realtor that we could just "raise our budget" or "go a bit bigger" to get a home outside our means with a mortgage helper crammed into it. gently caress no, I'd rather wait longer than get some shoddily reno'd place that looks "nice" (boomer nice) for another 200k above our budget and then have to rent half of it out. It was very hard to find a home that hadn't been reno'd to add a suite and is basically only restricted to fixer uppers with old owners who couldn't give a poo poo or estate sales. People thought we were idiots as well to sell our Vancouver condo instead of renting it out, but a)where does our down payment money come from and b)being a landlord sounds like my own personal hell, let alone being one across the strait.
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Oct 7, 2021 23:03
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There's this weird obsession with wanting to be a landlord though. Like accumulating mortgages and people's souls is somehow a badge of honour.
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Oct 8, 2021 02:50
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Yes the rental suite has become a fetishized object. Doesn't matter if you can afford a place without one -- why would you pass up the opportunity to become landlord? Never mind the fact that living with another person in your house or on your property is actually a mild inconvenience at best.
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Oct 8, 2021 12:05
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Seriously, why is everyone chomping at the bit to be a landlord? There's some hosed-up brain worms infecting people to want to contribute to the ongoing downfall of housing as a basic right and instead hyper-capitalize it. Super cool, if I hang on to this condo I can exploit the poo poo out of someone poorer than me based purely on possession of capital and not providing any kind of actual value, sounds great! But it's true, you get viewed as an idiot if you're not out there extracting every last cent from the people 'below' you.
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Oct 8, 2021 13:10
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They know the game is rigged and they want to get on the winning side. It's that simple.
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Oct 8, 2021 13:28
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Fidelitious posted:But it's true, you get viewed as an idiot if you're not out there extracting every last cent from the people 'below' you. I mean you kind of are. Becoming a landlord is really one of the only ways to get ahead these days. Not like you are going to have a rewarding and profitable career. My realtor also looked at me like I was nuts when I said I was a hard no on a basement suite. I think the only way I would even consider one is some scenario where I move my parents in with me instead of a retirement home.
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Oct 8, 2021 14:45
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I lived in two rentals with suites, once in an actually luxurious walk out basement on an acreage and once on the main floor of an older home that had been reno'd and had a legal suite. In both, we could hear fights and tv, and the backyard was always an issue because we never felt like it was private space. I have no desire to live like that forever, especially buying a house and having someone downstairs all the time. Note I don't mean this in a way against people who can only afford that, especially with the rental hellscape
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Oct 8, 2021 15:21
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Wow. A whole lot of entitled millennials up in this piece who think they're better than hard scrabbling boomers who suffered as landlords their entire lives to create housing supply. smh
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Oct 8, 2021 15:22
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You don't even need to be a traditional landlord. If you live in a place reasonably close to where tourists might want to go there's also Airbnb.
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Oct 8, 2021 16:29
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Cold on a Cob posted:They know the game is rigged and they want to get on the winning side. It's that simple. I think there's a lot of ascribing traits to people like them wanting to exploit those under them, or lord their land/wealth over others, but ultimately it's this. It's easy to make the context malicious when it's really the simple fact that people want to be rich. See: bitcoin/crypto, NFTs, weed stocks, tech bubbles, GME/AMC/meme stocks etc. Media makes people feel like they have been left behind, like they're not getting what they're owed/deserved, and that they need to do something, anything, to change their place on the game board of life. For the last while real estate has continued to sky rocket, and everyone without means has had to listen to stories of people becoming millionaires in 5-10 years while doing nothing. When those without means become those with means, they feel like they need to make up for lost time, so they try their hand at being the main character in the story where they're the winners. Buying houses and condos over and above what they need to live is because money is cheap, and they've been told it's a winning formula. I honestly don't think that they think about it much more than that.
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Oct 8, 2021 17:08
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Claes Oldenburger posted:Buying houses and condos over and above what they need to live is because money is cheap, and they've been told it's a winning formula. I honestly don't think that they think about it much more than that. Someone way back in this thread mentioned that most real estate purchases have less thought put into them than what to drink on a Friday night at the bar.
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Oct 8, 2021 17:35
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Fidelitious posted:Super cool, if I hang on to this condo I can exploit the poo poo out of someone poorer than me based purely on possession of capital and not providing any kind of actual value, sounds great! It's a special kind of stupid/evil when you exploit someone for an investment that isn't even cash flow positive. My lovely $2800 Toronto rental would have cost about $4000 between mortgage, property taxes, and and condo fees lmao.
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Oct 8, 2021 17:40
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Oct 8, 2021 17:40
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MeinPanzer posted:Basically all my friends and family from Victoria and environs have gotten help from their parents to buy a house, though I don't know if it's any more prevalent than in, say, Vancouver or Toronto. I'm in Victoria and in my late 30s, about half my friends got help from their parents and bought a place over the last few years, the other half like me got no help and are still renting. Guess which half saw their net wealth go up (one of my friends got a place with parents help in Nelson, sold it a year later for $200,000 profit. I'm pleased for him but fffffffffffffffff)
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Oct 8, 2021 21:20
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FOMO is a hell of a drug. I have to be a cynical gently caress and hope that this crashes on the newest buyers so I can pick at the corpses.
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Oct 8, 2021 21:47
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Purgatory Glory posted:FOMO is a hell of a drug. I have to be a cynical gently caress and hope that this crashes on the newest buyers so I can pick at the corpses. Everyone in this thread has to be a homeowner before that will happen
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Oct 8, 2021 22:00
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evilpicard posted:It's a special kind of stupid/evil when you exploit someone for an investment that isn't even cash flow positive. I rent a Toronto 1br near Jane Station at cash-flow-neutral (property tax + insurance + condo fees, totals $1000/mo) and don’t feel too bad about it along the stupid/evil axes, but I didn’t buy it as an investment. It’s a pain in the rear end sometimes to be a landlord, especially when the tenant is in their first independent place, but if I sell it when we no longer need it in a couple of years then the buyer is going to renovict and the person currently living there won’t be able to find anything for less than double. I’m too much of a softie for that, so I’m sort of stuck with the arrangement until they move of their own accord. I do enjoy how the owner of another unit in the building was infuriated to discover that I wasn’t charging “market rent”, though, so there are perks.
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Oct 8, 2021 22:17
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evilpicard posted:It's a special kind of stupid/evil when you exploit someone for an investment that isn't even cash flow positive. When that same rental is going up in value by $50-100k a year (I'm making that figure up obviously, but it's that idea) why would the owner care about losing $14k in cash flow over the course of that year if they can afford it? Not that I'm defending them, I am totally part of the group that cannot imagine anything I'd like to do less than be a landlord and I don't understand why people do it, but this is why people bother to keep a place even if it's cash flow negative, in a market that's completely insane like this one.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:41
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qhat posted:There's this weird obsession with wanting to be a landlord though. I don't get it. I'm so happy to be able to quit at quittin' time and ignore people who expect things from me after hours. No way in hell would I want a job where I am legitimately on call 24/7.
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Oct 9, 2021 02:07
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Well new condos are the ones going up every year. The going up every year phenomenon has a selection problem, which is that the units that aren't going up don't go on the market. In this case you would have spent net $300,000 to have a 25 year old depreciating asset that was worth $700,000 25 years ago but now has low demand and costs you $1000+ every month. Hopefully you didn't get a single special assessment in those couple decades  Also don't forget that every time a tenant moves out you are giving $3000 to a broker.ROI is better in an index fund. Also then you aren't landlord scum. e: I looked up condo prices in my city - new is averaging $580k, 15+ years old is averaging $295k lol VVVV My job gives me a car budget of $38k and I had the cheapest car in the condo parking structure COPE 27 fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Oct 9, 2021 |
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Oct 9, 2021 02:15
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Why are you guys even working? Just quit your job and buy a condo. See it appreciate 200k. Take HELOC on it and buy a Tesla. Never use the turn signals to show everyone you're an alpha.
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Oct 9, 2021 02:23
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Invest everything in Bitcoin because it’s going to the moon 🚀🚀🚀
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Oct 9, 2021 08:20
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Alctel posted:I'm in Victoria and in my late 30s, about half my friends got help from their parents and bought a place over the last few years, the other half like me got no help and are still renting. Sorry, yes, should have said "All my friends and family who have bought a house did so with support from their parents." I also have a bunch of friends in their mid to late 30s still renting and it's hard to imagine when they'll be able to buy unless they inherit their parents' houses. quote:FOMO is a hell of a drug. I have to be a cynical gently caress and hope that this crashes on the newest buyers so I can pick at the corpses. I dipped out of this thread years ago because I totally bought that a crash was actually just around the corner in 2015, or whenever, and that the real estate economy would return to some semblance of normality. I now believe that this will either keep continuing or will end so disastrously that no one bar the extremely rich will be able to profit from it. It's much easier to accept once you view it that way.
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Oct 9, 2021 09:36
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Gotta wonder what happens when interest rates return to 4-5% levels. So many people are on the edge with their mortgages. I'm not sure I believe that the stress test has actually prepared people.
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Oct 9, 2021 13:42
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Fidelitious posted:Gotta wonder what happens when interest rates return to 4-5% levels. So many people are on the edge with their mortgages. I'm not sure I believe that the stress test has actually prepared people. lol we'll literally never see interest rates at 5% ever again (Okay maybe not for like 20 years until all the boomers literally die off)
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Oct 9, 2021 14:12
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I'll preface by saying I'm very ignorant about economics. Is the US more likely to see interest rates rise in the short to medium term? And aren't our interest rates in some loose way tied to their's in that a big gap in rates is a problem for bonds or something?
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Oct 9, 2021 15:33
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There's somewhat of a relationship because of trade and capital flows but the CAD is relatively high rn so I suspect there's not as much pressure to raise rates specifically because of the fed, but we're seeing pretty high inflation in Canada and strong demand so we'll probably see a rate increase anyway. Also it's been years since I took econ so I'm probably wrong about everything.
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Oct 9, 2021 17:05
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Slotducks posted:lol we'll literally never see interest rates at 5% ever again (Okay maybe not for like 20 years until all the boomers literally die off) Even the landlords (see letter posted earlier) are trying to scrounge up every nickle and dime. So the payments on new buyers who have jumped in with the "this is normal forever" attitude are either rewarded by not getting screwed by a slight increase in rates or are very screwed. I don't want to be very screwed even if that's the less likely scenario.
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Oct 9, 2021 18:02
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My guess is that the longer they wait to raise the rate, the higher it will have to go in the end to get inflation properly under control. Every government knows raising rates is political suicide for them. If they can delay it until the other party has to do it they can cruise to power again when their opposition has the grenade explode in their hand. The one thing that will almost certainly grind the housing market to a halt is interest rates rising and staying higher for a while. They have delayed raising rates for a long time already so who knows what it will take if they can’t slow the rate of inflation. We’re quite late in this cycle now and inflation continues to rise despite the government and BoC’s best efforts so this might blow up if the can’t get it under control soon. I’m picturing people having to qualify at 8-9% and just laughing. The whole thing is dead if it gets that far.
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Oct 9, 2021 19:33
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The naive solution would be to keep the primary residency mortgage rates low and to raise secondary and corporate owned residential mortgages to double or triple rate. I’m sure people would figure out quickly how to game the system but in the meantime there might be an increase in supply favouring first time buyers.
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Oct 9, 2021 20:43
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Number19 posted:My guess is that the longer they wait to raise the rate, the higher it will have to go in the end to get inflation properly under control. Every government knows raising rates is political suicide for them. If they can delay it until the other party has to do it they can cruise to power again when their opposition has the grenade explode in their hand. The one thing that will almost certainly grind the housing market to a halt is interest rates rising and staying higher for a while. They have delayed raising rates for a long time already so who knows what it will take if they can’t slow the rate of inflation. Will raising rates even affect the inflation we are seeing at the moment? I know that is the orthodoxy, but I am not sure it's putting international logistics back to normal, or forces the wage slaves back to the jobs they abandoned.
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Oct 9, 2021 20:55
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Hey why aren't banks forced to take a loss on mortgage principles when houses decline in value?
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Oct 9, 2021 21:00
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Crow Buddy posted:Will raising rates even affect the inflation we are seeing at the moment? I know that is the orthodoxy, but I am not sure it's putting international logistics back to normal, or forces the wage slaves back to the jobs they abandoned. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of disruptions globally and I'm not sure that the changes to prices that Canadians are experiencing can be attributed to our little backwater country's monetary policies. Aren't Canada's interest rates relatively high globally anyways?
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Oct 9, 2021 21:03
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half cocaine posted:Hey why aren't banks forced to take a loss on mortgage principles when houses decline in value? I think this a major difference between Canada and the USA. People can’t just hand the keys to the bank and be done with it, the bank can definitely come after them for the difference unless they declare bankruptcy, and frankly it’s bullshit.
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Oct 9, 2021 22:02
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evilpicard posted:Well new condos are the ones going up every year. The going up every year phenomenon has a selection problem, which is that the units that aren't going up don't go on the market. Depends on the city I suppose, but at least in the hot market of Vancouver there's absolutely no way there is any property that is not rapidly appreciating. I don't care how old and lovely the apartment is, vacancy is ~0%, rents have spiked, and land value continues to rise. Even if these old buildings are rapidly depreciating, the underlying land value is rapidly appreciating, and it is becoming easier and easier to wind down a strata and sell land to developers. New apartments cost more because of the new amenities, new fittings and (hopefully) no special assessments for a good 10 years. If anything, for amateur landlords in hot markets of Vancouver and Toronto, buying these lovely old apartments is the best deal. The price to renovate 70s trash is not that much, and sky high rents will make it worth it.
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Oct 9, 2021 23:36
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qhat posted:I think this a major difference between Canada and the USA. People can’t just hand the keys to the bank and be done with it, the bank can definitely come after them for the difference unless they declare bankruptcy, and frankly it’s bullshit. Alberta still has jingle mail, cause Alberta
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Oct 9, 2021 23:38
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No I mean if you have taken out a mortgage on a 1 million condo with a 100k down payment, why is it ok for the bank to come after you for 900k if it halves in value? Why shouldn't the bank be forced to take a haircut of 450k?
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Oct 10, 2021 03:25
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sanctity of contracts right?
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Oct 10, 2021 03:27
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If it halves in value then I think they come after you for enough to get LTV back in range, but if they were to act as co-owners, how much would the buyer in that scenario owe the bank if it doubled in value? 1.8M?
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Oct 10, 2021 03:39
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