[Biosphere Collapse] 420 days of blazin' it

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(Thread IKs: Stereotype)

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

I don't let the details of a response to climate change bother me because if COVID has shown anything it is that our society is incapable of addressing even problems with relatively easy solutions.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 02:09

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# ? May 24, 2024 05:09

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Mameluke posted:

atwood sucks

https://twitter.com/MargaretAtwood/status/125079946564599808?t=Vqk2WyMmOkSbe3jzsaxO8w&s=19

yes but some of her work is very good and relevant. too bad she couldn't help defending that piece of poo poo galloway. the canlit scene is insular and hosed up at times.

bedpan posted:

I don't let the details of a response to climate change bother me because if COVID has shown anything it is that our society is incapable of addressing even problems with relatively easy solutions.

indeed

we're stupid murder apes. maybe some ants will go full hive mind after we're all dead and actually advance sentient intelligence in a good way :unsmith:

Cold on a Cob has issued a correction as of 03:00 on Oct 10, 2021

# ? Oct 10, 2021 02:58

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

wait, no,

how about ants plus a giant continent spanning underground fungus

cool poo poo.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 03:01

MightyBigMinus: Jan 26, 2020

Rime posted:

Why Everything is Suddenly Getting More Expensive � And Why It Won�t Stop

Thread readers will recall that I've been talking endlessly to anyone who will listen about the idea of externalized costs of production for years and years, and yet somehow it has never occurred to me to view the price tag associated with climate disruption as the debt incurred by those same costs circling back around and coming due. I've always assumed that debt would be reflected purely as damage or a body count, or the spiralling degredation of our environment. Since these costs will be imposed on us by forces out nature outside our control, at random, and largely cannot be mitigated (or, if they are, only at tremendous expense) - there's really no way to avoid the impact this will have on our economy and the cheap production it has relied on for a century to maintain social order via price incentives.

Obivously, things really are being propped up solely by the vast scale of the repo operations every major central bank is now doing nightly - to balance the continually increasing liquidity they're pumping in on the other end to prevent this situation from cooking off. Up from a few billion in the fall of 2019 to almost $2 Trillion, every night, in the USA alone now.

Elegant, simple, extremely alarming. It's like a light-bulb was just switched on in my head. This is the bowtie on the argument that growth consumer capitalism was only possible in a similarly boundless world, and now that we've hit and grossly exceeded the resource & environmental bounds of our own world an economic phase-change being forced on us is unavoidable.

Article just ties the whole room together, extremely pro-click.

yea we're already degrowth-ing we're just cooking the books for a decade or two in denial about it

MightyBigMinus has issued a correction as of 03:06 on Oct 10, 2021

# ? Oct 10, 2021 03:03

Hubbert: Mar 25, 2007; At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Rime posted:

Elegant, simple, extremely alarming. It's like a light-bulb was just switched on in my head. This is the bowtie on the argument that growth consumer capitalism was only possible in a similarly boundless world, and now that we've hit and grossly exceeded the resource & environmental bounds of our own world an economic phase-change being forced on us is unavoidable.

http://www.energycrisis.com/hubbert/monetary.htm posted:

"Two Intellectual Systems: Matter-energy and the Monetary Culture"

(summary, by M. King Hubbert)

During a 4-hour interview with Stephen B. Andrews, SbAndrews at worldnet.att.net, on March 8, 1988, Dr. Hubbert handed over a copy of the following, which was the subject of a seminar he taught, or participated in, at MIT Energy Laboratory on Sept 30, 1981.

"The world's present industrial civilization is handicapped by the coexistence of two universal, overlapping, and incompatible intellectual systems: the accumulated knowledge of the last four centuries of the properties and interrelationships of matter and energy; and the associated monetary culture which has evloved from folkways of prehistoric origin.

"The first of these two systems has been responsible for the spectacular rise, principally during the last two centuries, of the present industrial system and is essential for its continuance. The second, an inheritance from the prescientific past, operates by rules of its own having little in common with those of the matter-energy system. Nevertheless, the monetary system, by means of a loose coupling, exercises a general control over the matter-energy system upon which it is super[im]posed.

"Despite their inherent incompatibilities, these two systems during the last two centuries have had one fundamental characteristic in common, namely, exponential growth, which has made a reasonably stable coexistence possible. But, for various reasons, it is impossible for the matter-energy system to sustain exponential growth for more than a few tens of doublings, and this phase is by now almost over. The monetary system has no such constraints, and, according to one of its most fundamental rules, it must continue to grow by compound interest. This disparity between a monetary system which continues to grow exponentially and a physical system which is unable to do so leads to an increase with time in the ratio of money to the output of the physical system. This manifests itself as price inflation. A monetary alternative corresponding to a zero physical growth rate would be a zero interest rate. The result in either case would be large-scale financial instability."

"With such relationships in mind, a review will be made of the evolution of the world's matter-energy system culminating in the present industrial society. Questions will then be considered regarding the future:

What are the constraints and possibilities imposed by the matter-energy system? human society sustained at near optimum conditions?

Will it be possible to so reform the monetary system that it can serve as a control system to achieve these results?

If not, can an accounting and control system of a non-monetary nature be devised that would be approptirate for the management of an advanced industrial system?

"It appears that the stage is now set for a critical examination of this problem, and that out of such inquries, if a catastrophic solution can be avoided, there can hardly fail to emerge what the historian of science, Thomas S. Kuhn, has called a major scientific and intellectual revolution."

# ? Oct 10, 2021 03:11

wynott dunn: Aug 9, 2006; What is to be done?

Who or what can challenge, and stand a chance at beating, the corporate juggernauts dominating the world?

a seminar in 1981 :smith:

# ? Oct 10, 2021 09:28

Tzen: Sep 11, 2001

lmao we're (my kids and their kids) are so hosed

# ? Oct 10, 2021 10:16

Cup Runneth Over: Aug 8, 2009; She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate

Tzen posted:

lmao we're (my kids and their kids) are so hosed

Lol you think your kids will have kids

# ? Oct 10, 2021 10:45

T-Paine: Dec 12, 2007; Sitting in the Costco food court unmasked, Bible in hand, reading my favorite Psalms to my five children: Abel, Bethany, Carlos, Carlos, and Carlos.

LOL if you've committed the mortal sin of reproduction and haven't at the very least pledged your atonement by teaching your kids not to make the same mistake

# ? Oct 10, 2021 12:59

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

https://twitter.com/stephsmithio/status/1446691677687537664

let�s do this for literally everything and not just stop at carbon

buying an ipad? here�s how many lives are destroyed to mine rare earth minerals for it

eating a snack? here�s the amount of rainforest cleared to grow the palm oil

start showing us how much blood is on our hands with every google search, every amazon purchase, every doordash order.

for god�s sake don�t stop though. the point isn�t to stop cruelty it�s to make it hyper efficient

Cold on a Cob has issued a correction as of 13:59 on Oct 10, 2021

# ? Oct 10, 2021 13:55

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Cold on a Cob posted:

https://twitter.com/stephsmithio/status/1446691677687537664

let�s do this for literally everything and not just stop at carbon

buying an ipad? here�s how many lives are destroyed to mine rare earth minerals for it

eating a snack? here�s the amount of rainforest cleared to grow the palm oil

start showing us how much blood is on our hands with every google search, every amazon purchase, every doordash order.

for god�s sake don�t stop though. the point isn�t to stop cruelty it�s to make it hyper efficient

the app should also show a running total of the CO2 emitted to keep the app running

# ? Oct 10, 2021 14:06

r u ready to WALK: Sep 29, 2001

I'm glad there are apps and websites where you can watch the number go up live

https://www.co2.earth/daily-co2

i wonder how vertical it can become, supposedly you don't suffocate from oxygen deprivation until it's above 40 000 ppm but people already start feeling drowsy and exhausted at a couple thousand ppm

# ? Oct 10, 2021 14:37

mediaphage: Mar 22, 2007; Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

T-Paine posted:

LOL if you've committed the mortal sin of reproduction and haven't at the very least pledged your atonement by teaching your kids not to make the same mistake

man hands on misery to man
it deepens like a coastal shelf
get out as early as you can
and don't have any kids yourself

r u ready to WALK posted:

i wonder how vertical it can become, supposedly you don't suffocate from oxygen deprivation until it's above 40 000 ppm but people already start feeling drowsy and exhausted at a couple thousand ppm

but hitting 1000ppm can cause cognitive issues (even after exposure for an hour or two lmao), inflammation, and kidney and bone problems.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 14:50

Perry Mason Jar: Feb 24, 2006; "Della? Take a lid"

The degrowth is intentional, not climate change externality. The ruling class has been pursuing degrowth since Trump took office and they're nearly ready to pull the rug out. They're going to split working class into two types: cryptocurrency enthusiasts and MMT enthusiasts (mint the coin is MMT warm up). Under these false pretenses of pseudoscientific 'economics' bullshit. You don't need any of that poo poo you just tax the loving rich, just dispossess the rich and jail them. But these are little con games - crypto and MMT are gifts to the ruling class.

How do people suppose it works? They have always raised the debt ceiling. It is routine. Now suddenly impossible. But what difference does it even make? The US will get de-rated? They'll do what to the US as a consequence of defaults? Who? How? US is hegemon cause of military domination not money.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 16:22

Rectal Death Adept: Jun 20, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

dibs on being cryptocurrency working class

i have a dogecoin

# ? Oct 10, 2021 17:04

Femur: Jan 10, 2004; I REALLY NEED TO SHUT THE FUCK UP

Yes degrowth has to happen to pay back the interest in the future.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 18:27

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

degrowth isnt something that organisms do. when you stop growing thats just death

# ? Oct 10, 2021 18:34

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Rutibex posted:

degrowth isnt something that organisms do. when you stop growing thats just death

Someone should let mother nature know about that one.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 19:41

Complications: Jun 19, 2014

Rutibex posted:

degrowth isnt something that organisms do. when you stop growing thats just death

jellyfish have mastered degrowth

bones were a mistake

# ? Oct 10, 2021 19:45

Lost Time: Sep 28, 2012; All necessities, provided. All anxieties, tranquilized. All boredom, amused.

If we don't degrowth willingly, then the biosphere will just have to help us to it.

https://kmph.com/news/local/wildfire-smoke-is-blocking-central-valley-crops-from-the-sun

quote:

Valley farmers and their crops are now being impacted by the heavy smoke coming from surrounding wildfires.

The CEO of the Fresno County Farm Bureau says the greatest concern right now is the uncertainty of how long this smoke will stick around.

Wine grapes becoming tainted with smoke isn�t a huge concern here in the Central Valley because most of that crop has been harvested for the year.

However, the high heat we saw in July delayed the maturity of other crops.

As a result, this smoke could cause some damage to the raisin and almond crops that are still drying out in the fields.

"Those two crops specifically need mother nature, as in the sun, to dry those crops out in the field, and that drying time is essentially eliminated right now with the smoke layer that we have," said Ryan Jacobsen, CEO of the Fresno County Farm Bureau, "We�re just not seeing it, we aren�t seeing any drying taking place and that becomes very problematic especially for raisins because if they don�t dry they�re going to sit there and rot in the field. So, we�re hoping that this weather change we�re going to see take place in the next couple of days hopefully blows this smoke out of there and returns the sun to help us finish off this crop year.�

Jacobsen says the Farm Bureau�s other priority is the health and safety of farmworkers. For their protection, the bureau has been providing N95 respirators to agricultural employers.

This will not be a good decade for agriculture the planet over. Then again it will probably be the best one remaining for all alive, so there's that lol.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 20:08

Mameluke: Aug 2, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Smoke's too wet for you now Ryan? Okay whiner lmao

# ? Oct 10, 2021 20:12

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

quote:

"It appears that the stage is now set for a critical examination of this problem, and that out of such inquries, if a catastrophic solution can be avoided, there can hardly fail to emerge what the historian of science, Thomas S. Kuhn, has called a major scientific and intellectual revolution."

Our response: LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU

# ? Oct 10, 2021 20:29

Rationale: May 17, 2005; America runs on in'

Everyone had the best peppers they can remember this year.

I look forward to gardening fifty hours a week and doing guard duty for another twenty-five.

E: and be killed thirty-six hours after the power goes out

Rationale has issued a correction as of 21:31 on Oct 10, 2021

# ? Oct 10, 2021 21:02

Brainwreck: Mar 17, 2009; Dinosaur Gum

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/07/tech/google-climate-change-denial-ads/index.html

quote:

Google is cracking down on the ability of climate change deniers to make money off its platforms and to spread climate misinformation through advertisements.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 21:18

forbidden dialectics: Jul 26, 2005

r u ready to WALK posted:

I'm glad there are apps and websites where you can watch the number go up live

https://www.co2.earth/daily-co2

i wonder how vertical it can become, supposedly you don't suffocate from oxygen deprivation until it's above 40 000 ppm but people already start feeling drowsy and exhausted at a couple thousand ppm

What causes the September-May annual periodic oscillation in CO2 averages? I'm guessing winter when all the crops die and then freshly planted agriculture re-absorbs some portion of CO2 during the next growing season? Nah, it's gotta be something more insanely catastrophic than that, lol.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 21:22

Dr. Furious: Jan 11, 2001; KELVIN
My bot don't know nuthin' 'bout no KELVIN

forbidden dialectics posted:

What causes the September-May annual periodic oscillation in CO2 averages? I'm guessing winter when all the crops die and then freshly planted agriculture re-absorbs some portion of CO2 during the next growing season? Nah, it's gotta be something more insanely catastrophic than that, lol.

The northern hemisphere has more land area than the southern, particularly in the higher latitudes, so when winter comes around in the north there are more plants that stop doing photosynthesis.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 22:13

Complications: Jun 19, 2014

Brainwreck posted:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/07/tech/google-climate-change-denial-ads/index.html

quote:

"We've heard directly from a growing number of our advertising and publisher partners who have expressed concerns about ads that run alongside or promote inaccurate claims about climate change," Google said in its announcement Thursday. "Advertisers simply don't want their ads to appear next to this content. And publishers and creators don't want ads promoting these claims to appear on their pages or videos."

Climate denial is so last decade

The cool cats are all greenwashing now

# ? Oct 10, 2021 22:16

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

I am going to become insane.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 22:20

Ssthalar: Sep 16, 2007

Arglebargle III posted:

I am going to become insane.

Believe me, that's not going to be any better.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 22:24

lollontee: Nov 4, 2014; Can't post for 10 years!

Arglebargle III posted:

I am going to become insane.

youre still going to need a method to your madness or poeiple, includin me, are just gonna call ya the pretensious d-word ya were

# ? Oct 10, 2021 22:27

God Hole: Mar 2, 2016

i am become insane, perceiver of world

# ? Oct 10, 2021 22:37

Ssthalar: Sep 16, 2007

God Hole posted:

i am become insane, perceiver of world

Gaze upon my madness and Lmao

# ? Oct 10, 2021 23:03

Shima Honnou: Dec 1, 2010; The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit; College Slice

what does sanity have? cheering when number goes up
what does insanity have? laughing in empty movie theaters and tearing out your eyes

i think i know which one i;ll pick

# ? Oct 10, 2021 23:13

Chard: Aug 24, 2010

Lost Time posted:

If we don't degrowth willingly, then the biosphere will just have to help us to it.

https://kmph.com/news/local/wildfire-smoke-is-blocking-central-valley-crops-from-the-sun

This will not be a good decade for agriculture the planet over. Then again it will probably be the best one remaining for all alive, so there's that lol.

"on average, we live well!"

# ? Oct 10, 2021 23:26

Barry Soteriology: Mar 1, 2020

Who are the scientists who were banging the climate change/biosphere collapse in the 70s and 80s? I want to see if any of their insane asylums are within driving distance and if they are taking visitors.

# ? Oct 11, 2021 00:37

God Hole: Mar 2, 2016

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3xw3x/new-research-vindicates-1972-mit-prediction-that-society-will-collapse-soon

# ? Oct 11, 2021 00:48

Rationale: May 17, 2005; America runs on in'

Does anyone want to practice sucking dick to be valuable after the collapse

# ? Oct 11, 2021 01:01

Pryor on Fire: May 14, 2013; they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

Topo Chico Debarge posted:

Who are the scientists who were banging the climate change/biosphere collapse in the 70s and 80s? I want to see if any of their insane asylums are within driving distance and if they are taking visitors.

Helen Caldicott was the big one I remember getting attention. Her movie/lecture was considered so radical she was labeled as a dangerous australian foreign agent or some bullshit

wikipedia posted:

Released during the term of the Reagan administration and at the height[2] of Cold War nuclear tensions between the United States and Soviet Union, If You Love This Planet was officially designated as "foreign political propaganda" by the United States Department of Justice and temporarily banned.[3][4] The subsequent uproar over that action gave the film a publicity boost, and it later won the 1982 Academy Award for Best Documentary (Short Subject).

She was also one of the few people willing to call out the nuclear power industry on their constant lying and covering up of accidents.

# ? Oct 11, 2021 01:12

Evil_Greven: Feb 20, 2007; Whadda I got to,
whadda I got to do
to wake ya up?

To shake ya up,
to break the structure up!?

Topo Chico Debarge posted:

Who are the scientists who were banging the climate change/biosphere collapse in the 70s and 80s? I want to see if any of their insane asylums are within driving distance and if they are taking visitors.

i mean it was longer ago than that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lgzz-L7GFg

lyndon big loving johnson sent a thing to congress about it and there were reports and poo poo at least by 1965
https://www-legacy.dge.carnegiescie...Environment.pdf
(i write this from my shelter due to tornadoes in loving october)

Evil_Greven has issued a correction as of 01:59 on Oct 11, 2021

# ? Oct 11, 2021 01:50

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# ? May 24, 2024 05:09

toggle: Nov 7, 2005

God Hole posted:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3xw3x/new-research-vindicates-1972-mit-prediction-that-society-will-collapse-soon

lmao

# ? Oct 11, 2021 02:44

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Biosphere Collapse] 420 days of blazin' it

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