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StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.


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Fleetwood
Mar 26, 2010


biggest hochul head in china

Probably Magic posted:

I'm just happy for Tilda Swinton that she gets her biggest career get yet, pretending to be a villainous press secretary for four years.

Tilda Swinton as lunatic Biden would be gold

F Stop Fitzgerald
Dec 12, 2010

sexpig by night posted:

love when they try the dumb faux-woke "Oh so some DEAD WHITE GUY????" to reveal how little they know about actual leftist writings. I bet they have some cool names for the various African revolutionaries that are also cited.

Just kidding they don't know those exist.

nonwhite leftists.... you mean tankies???

F Stop Fitzgerald
Dec 12, 2010

AnimeIsTrash posted:

I ♥️ Thomas Sankara

remembering the time an anarchist tried to cancel sankara for making polycules illegal

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 10 years!)

Fleetwood posted:

Tilda Swinton as lunatic Biden would be gold

Alan Alda could probably nail it too

Vim Fuego
Jun 1, 2000


Ultra Carp

Dixon Chisholm posted:

I have no idea who that kid is with Jackson on the left, but Lightfoot's bout to get to get her calves cramped Beto style on the right.

jfc

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007

lol at his new gimmick

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

sexpig by night posted:

love when they try the dumb faux-woke "Oh so some DEAD WHITE GUY????" to reveal how little they know about actual leftist writings. I bet they have some cool names for the various African revolutionaries that are also cited.

Just kidding they don't know those exist.

It's always fun to point out that Marx was Jewish and erasing his heritage and identity is antisemitic so BACK OFF!

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Homeless Friend posted:

lol at his new gimmick

he's just espousing 2019 CSPAM

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

AnimeIsTrash posted:

I ♥️ Thomas Sankara

I literally have a poster of him on my living room wall.

Bootleg Trunks
Jun 12, 2020

yeah i read hegel

Hating
Every
God
damnEd
Liberal

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011



I loving love math!!!

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


According to my calculations, good things go up when bad things go down.

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Nichael posted:

According to my calculations, good things go up when bad things go down.

Why are you attacking the Democrats like this?

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

Think about all the Democrats have done for you before you attack them

Oneiros
Jan 12, 2007



Nonsense posted:

Think about all the Democrats have done for you before you attack them

i've thought about it and now i think we're gonna need more guillotines

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008



Sartre's conception of Bad Faith is pretty straightforward, and I love it when people gently caress it up because they're uncomfortable with the implications

So Sartre starts with a thought experiment: imagine a young man who loves his country, but also sees himself as a devoted son. There is a war on, and the army needs soldiers, but also his mother is very sick and requires care. So the young man needs to choose: will he join the army and fight for his country, or will he stay home and care for his mother? Pretty rough choice to be presented in France just after World War 2 by a guy who was very weird about his experiences in a concentration camp (IIRC Sartre escaped by telling the guard he needed to go pick up some glasses from the optometrist, and then just never came back to the prison).

Anyways, our guy can cite all sorts of reasons for making either choice: he's a devoted son, he's a patriot, family is more important than country, if the nation falls his mother will suffer under the occupation, etc. and these are things to take into consideration. But, at the same time, he must make the choice. No one makes it for him, and if he says something like "I must serve in the Army, my country needs me!" or "My mother cannot get along without me, I have no choice but to stay" he is lying. He could choose either one, and he would have to face the consequences for his decision, but it is untrue that he must do one or the other, that there is some external force making him do something.

If he claims that he must do XYZ and cannot do otherwise, he is acting in bad faith. He is denying his agency in the situation. He is rejecting his personhood and his responsibility. He is pretending that other people make him do the things he does.

And this is where the "hell is other people" from No Exit comes in. In a short, sloppy summary, three people are in Hell. Hell is not some torture chamber or icy lake, it is instead a waiting room with some couches. One of the characters of the play, Garcin, was a journalist who says that he was executed for running a pacifist newspaper. He plays himself up to the other characters as a man of upstanding moral character and iron devotion to truth and all that poo poo. It eventually comes out that he was a coward, and was executed for trying to escape the country. According to him, he was going to Mexico, to start another pacifist newspaper. He swears. Definitely. He's not a coward. Another of the characters, Inez, a lesbian sadist who seduced her cousin's wife, drove her cousin to suicide, and who died in a murder suicide with the cousin's wife killing them both, sees right through his self-justifications and attempts to make himself into the hero of the story who deserves praise from others. She recognizes that he's just a bully who wanted to gently caress around behind his wife's back, and then, when the time came to actually be the Big Man he always presented himself to be, he turned tail and ran. Garcin desperately tries to get the third woman, Estelle (who in hell for murdering her infant child), to love him the way he wants to be loved, but it doesn't take, as she's pretty dumb, and anyways Inez is constantly there mocking him and trying to get Estelle to gently caress her instead.

No Exit posted:

GARCIN: Still there? Now listen! I want you to do me a service. No, don't shrink away. I know
it must seem strange to you, having someone asking you for help; you're not used to that. But if
you'll make the effort, if you'll only will it hard enough, I dare say we can really love each other.
Look at it this way. A thousand of them are proclaiming I'm a coward; but what do numbers
matter? If there's someone, just one person, to say quite positively I did not run away, that I'm
not the sort who runs away, that I'm brave and decent and the rest of it—well, that one person's
faith would save me. Will you have that faith in me? Then I shall love you and cherish you for
ever. Estelle—will you?

ESTELLE [laughing]: Oh, you dear silly man, do you think I could love a coward?

GARCIN: But just now you said—

ESTELLE I was only teasing you. I like men, my dear, who're real men, with tough skin and
strong hands. You haven't a coward's chin, or a coward's mouth, or a coward's voice, or a
coward's hair. And it's for your mouth, your hair, your voice, I love you.

GARCIN: Do you mean this? Really mean it?

ESTELLE: Shall I swear it?

GARCIN: Then I snap my fingers at them all, those below and those in here. Estelle, we shall
climb out of hell. [INEZ gives a shrill laugh. He breaks off and stares at her.] What's that?

INEZ [still laughing]: But she doesn't mean a word of what she says. How can you be such a
simpleton? "Estelle, am I a coward?" As if she cared a drat either way.

ESTELLE: Inez, how dare you? [To GARCIN] Don't listen to her. If you want me to have faith
in you, you must begin by trusting me.

INEZ: That's right! That's right! Trust away! She wants a man—that far you can trust her—she
want's a man's arm round her waist, a man's smell, a man's eyes glowing with desire. And that's
all she wants. She'd assure you you were God Almighty if she thought it would give you
pleasure.

GARCIN: Estelle, is this true? Answer me. Is it true?

ESTELLE: What do you expect me to say? Don't you realize how maddening it is to have to
answer questions one can't make head or tail of? [She stamps her foot.] You do make things
difficult... . Anyhow, I'd love you just the same, even if you were a coward. Isn't that enough? [A
short pause.]

GARCIN [to the two women]: You disgust me, both of you.

"Hell is other people" when we are trapped with people who force us to be honest, force us to reveal the actual motivations behind our actions, and refuse to indulge in our self-delusions.

So, you know, go ahead and vote for the Democrats if you want, but don't pretend it's because they're the Good and Moral party made up of Upstanding and Smart People Who Always Make the Right Decisions Even if They Are Hard and who are Never Bad, and anyways the other party is so wicked that no person could ever have it in their best interests to vote for them.

That, plus or minus Virgil Texas, is Bad Faith

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008



Zizek, of course, turns this whole thing into a joke that neatly deflates the binary nature of these types of dilemmas within a larger passage about being "forced" to choose

quote:

In a well-known passage from his ‘Existentialism and Humanism’, Sartre deployed the dilemma of a young man in France in 1942, torn between the duty to help his lone, ill mother and the duty to enter the war and fight the Germans; Sartre’s point is, of course, that there is no a priori answer to this dilemma. The young man needs to make a decision grounded only in his own abyssal freedom and assume full responsibility for it.

An obscene third way out of this dilemma would have been to advise the young man to tell his mother that he will join the Resistance, and to tell his Resistance friends that he will take care of his mother, while, in reality, withdrawing to a secluded place and studying.

There is more than cheap cynicism in this advice. It brings to mind a well-known Soviet joke about Lenin. Under socialism; Lenin’s advice to young people, his answer to what they should do, was “Learn, learn, and learn.” This was evoked all the time and displayed on the school walls. The joke goes: Marx, Engels, and Lenin are asked whether they would prefer to have a wife or a mistress. As expected, Marx, rather conservative in private matters, answers, “A wife!” while Engels, more of a bon vivant, opts for a mistress. To everyone’s surprise, Lenin says, “I’d like to have both!” Why? Is there a hidden stripe of decadent jouisseur behind his austere revolutionary image? No-he explains: “So that I can tell my wife that I am going to my mistress and my mistress that I am going to my wife. . .” “And then, what do you do?” “I go to a solitary place to learn, learn, and learn!”

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

I love how racist this is. It's as if Asia and Africa don't matter whatsoever in terms of scientific advancement. I mean sure there's Egypt in the beginning, but after that only Europe matters! No don't bother looking up what other countries were doing at the time of the "Dark Ages".

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

Well the important thing is we got rid of Christianity and that fixed the problem

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Ah, Egoism. You don't see that one too often.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

punk rebel ecks posted:

I love how racist this is. It's as if Asia and Africa don't matter whatsoever in terms of scientific advancement. I mean sure there's Egypt in the beginning, but after that only Europe matters! No don't bother looking up what other countries were doing at the time of the "Dark Ages".

liberal anti-Putin darling Garry Kasparov believes in this poo poo unironically

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

gradenko_2000 posted:

liberal anti-Putin darling Garry Kasparov believes in this poo poo unironically

The Oldest Man posted:

Well the important thing is we got rid of Christianity and that fixed the problem


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep1oktyqBpc

punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 07:26 on Oct 11, 2021

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005


Considering climate change, this chart indicates the dark ages helped delay things for hundreds of years.

H.P. Hovercraft
Jan 12, 2004

one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse
Slippery Tilde

punk rebel ecks posted:

I love how racist this is. It's as if Asia and Africa don't matter whatsoever in terms of scientific advancement. I mean sure there's Egypt in the beginning, but after that only Europe matters! No don't bother looking up what other countries were doing at the time of the "Dark Ages".

we can never hope to regain the progress lost to the korean hyperwar

Shipon
Nov 7, 2005

gradenko_2000 posted:

liberal anti-Putin darling Garry Kasparov believes in this poo poo unironically
russian liberals are absolute freaks

Doktor Avalanche
Dec 30, 2008

gradenko_2000 posted:

liberal anti-Putin darling Garry Kasparov believes in this poo poo unironically

no no no, you're being too vague here, don't spare cspammers from the absolute hilarity of the new chronology:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_chronology_(Fomenko)

quote:

The new chronology is a pseudohistorical conspiracy theory proposed by Anatoly Fomenko who argues that events of antiquity generally attributed to the civilizations of the Roman Empire, Ancient Greece and Ancient Egypt, actually occurred during the Middle Ages, more than a thousand years later.

The theory further proposes that world history prior to AD 1600 has been widely falsified to suit the interests of a number of different conspirators including the Vatican, the Holy Roman Empire, and the Russian House of Romanov, all working to obscure the "true" history of the world centered around a global empire called the "Russian Horde".

according to wiki kasparov later denounced them but i like to think it's because he realized it was bad press and he still believes in this poo poo

The Atomic Man-Boy
Jul 23, 2007

Nichael posted:

I loving love math!!!

I know, right??!? Thanks modern liberalism, which invented science, math, and genocide no bad things at all!

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 10 years!)

Nichael posted:

According to my calculations, good things go up when bad things go down.

I know one good thing that's rising like a tide

:nws: https://twitter.com/NutDivide/status/1447416199113895937

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/roun_sa_ville/status/1447238364105691140

Democratic
Sexpests of
America

Catpetter1981
Apr 9, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
It didn't endear Trump to voters enough to stop him from losing the House in 2018 and losing the presidency in 2020. I think people here overestimate the power of this kind of theater. It pleased the hardcore base who already supported him no matter what, but doesn't seem to have been a path to electoral success.

But the eviction moratorium is kind of a weird example here, given that Biden did extend an eviction moratorium even after the courts indicated they wouldn't support an extension, and the Biden administration did defend the eviction in court, and the court did force the eviction moratorium to end. It doesn't seem to have made much of an impact in anyone's opinion of Biden here!

Armadillo Tank
Mar 26, 2010


Minecraft


Is a good game

Falstaff
Apr 27, 2008

I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

sexpig by night posted:

Who tf wants to read some dead white german guy from the 1800s. tbh that's one of the big structural weaknesses of marxism. It's like requiring people to read hegel for membership to join a group: either no one is actually reading it or your group has a member ceiling of like 30 people

drake no: understanding politics via marxism

drake yes: understanding politics via Fate/Zero

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

Doctor Jeep posted:

no no no, you're being too vague here, don't spare cspammers from the absolute hilarity of the new chronology:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_chronology_(Fomenko)

according to wiki kasparov later denounced them but i like to think it's because he realized it was bad press and he still believes in this poo poo

bill maher voice: new chronology

Catpetter1981
Apr 9, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Did it happen? If so, praise is not necessary to admit that it happened. Especially when someone is saying that it's something he should do and is failing to do.

I mean, it's not like "why aren't Dems at least doing <thing that Dems are in fact openly and publicly doing>?" arguments are rare, but it's still worth pointing out when it happens.

Also worth remembering that a common criticism of Biden, like Obama before him, was that he doesn't use the bully pulpit enough, go out on TV every week to outline his goals and shout out challenges to his enemies. I admit some sympathy to this, but also....we just saw how that happened with Trump who did exactly that. His own fanatic cult of personality mostly started tuning out after a while, save for those into it enough to literally go from rally to rally like they were following the Dead on tour. His most friendly media sources stopped carrying many of his speeches live, or would cut away once it got to parts we'd all heard before. I mean, I still think a president has a powerful ability to speak to the public that no one else in government does, but we've also seen its limits and they're far short of what the Green Lantern theorists tend to imply.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

Catpetter1981 posted:

Did it happen? If so, praise is not necessary to admit that it happened. Especially when someone is saying that it's something he should do and is failing to do.

I mean, it's not like "why aren't Dems at least doing <thing that Dems are in fact openly and publicly doing>?" arguments are rare, but it's still worth pointing out when it happens.

Also worth remembering that a common criticism of Biden, like Obama before him, was that he doesn't use the bully pulpit enough, go out on TV every week to outline his goals and shout out challenges to his enemies. I admit some sympathy to this, but also....we just saw how that happened with Trump who did exactly that. His own fanatic cult of personality mostly started tuning out after a while, save for those into it enough to literally go from rally to rally like they were following the Dead on tour. His most friendly media sources stopped carrying many of his speeches live, or would cut away once it got to parts we'd all heard before. I mean, I still think a president has a powerful ability to speak to the public that no one else in government does, but we've also seen its limits and they're far short of what the Green Lantern theorists tend to imply.

Yea god I'd hate for a president I support to have a fiercely dedicated base of supporters they can turn loose to increase pressure for their agenda.

StealthArcher
Jan 10, 2010




Deontology is a loving disease.

StratGoatCom
Aug 6, 2019

Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice



Right about timing, wrong about cause.

Probably Magic
Oct 9, 2012

Looking cute, feeling cute.

punk rebel ecks posted:

I love how racist this is. It's as if Asia and Africa don't matter whatsoever in terms of scientific advancement. I mean sure there's Egypt in the beginning, but after that only Europe matters! No don't bother looking up what other countries were doing at the time of the "Dark Ages".

The Christians outside of Europe did fine, it wasn't a Christian Dark Age, it was a European one.

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Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006

Soiled Meat

Probably Magic posted:

The Christians outside of Europe did fine, it wasn't a Christian Dark Age, it was a European one.

not all renaissances were as depicted either

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