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My impression of this game, between this LP and Tae's, is that the Nohrians are meant to be bad guys and thus are permitted to have actual personalities, flaws, and complexities arising from their mix of virtues and flaws. Hoshido and everyone in it is "JAPAN!" written in crayon on a blank sheet of paper.
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Oct 11, 2021 17:06
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midnight lasagna posted:No idea what that drawing is a reference to but I love it. Do you have a source? I actually went and dug up the source, it's from here.
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Oct 11, 2021 19:35
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Dammit, you got a great seed on your Lunatic file. My Silas has around 13 strength at a similar level. I've never played past Chapter 10 on Lunatic so it's nice to see the bullshit Conquest throws at you. Birthright on Lunatic is fun and challenging but Conquest seems to be a giant gently caress you.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:11
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Cythereal posted:My impression of this game, between this LP and Tae's, is that the Nohrians are meant to be bad guys and thus are permitted to have actual personalities, flaws, and complexities arising from their mix of virtues and flaws. Hoshido and everyone in it is "JAPAN!" written in crayon on a blank sheet of paper. The Nohr characters are just as inclined towards gimmicky personalities as the Hoshido ones, the difference is that the Nohrians trend more towards edgy ones whereas Hoshidans trend towards generically good ones (with exceptions on both sides). Also, yes, in theory Nohr is supposed to be the more morally dubious faction, but in practice Corrin can't ever be allowed to do anything presented as bad - or more relevantly here get along with anyone bad - so instead it's just a goddamn mess. Many people have pointed out over the years that there's more noted kills on Birthright then there are on Conquest, despite the minor fact that you're leading a loving invasion and conquest of another country in Conquest whereas Birthright is just a relatively small strike team attacking the heart of Nohr. Nohr is the route where you've got characters such as Xander where you're constantly told what a good ruler that cares for their troops they are, and then they've got serial killer Peri as one of their personal retainers. Peri herself has her gimmick constantly treated as just a funny joke by practically everyone, even when one support chain has her literally trying to murder the other person. Because it's not disturbing and scary, you see, but really just a funny quirk.
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Oct 11, 2021 23:27
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Oct 12, 2021 08:08
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 It's hard to believe Elise would have the strength to even pick up a pickaxe, let alone mine with one. She's probably just playing Minecraft.  I'd prefer to win ingredients I don't have from the lottery than minerals, since you can trade for those at the smithy. I think the only ingredients I still need are Wheat (defense), and Meat (strength).  The arena is a cool place to get to see Azura fight. The mechanics of the arena seem to favour units with high strength but poor defense, or at least that's how it seems to me. The optimal arena setup is your weakest unit paired with your strongest unit, which will make you face a weak unit paired with a strong unit. Your strong unit's dual attack will KO the enemy weak unit in a single hit if the difference in power is big enough, it doesn't matter if your weak unit would die in one hit on the counterattack.   I don't think I've actually stated any of my support plans so far, but this one was probably obvious. Corrin and Silas have been this playthrough's power couple. Childhood friendship turning into a romance is cute!  Although these cutscenes are always a little awkward. Pairing up fictional characters is fun but I don't want them telling me they love me, it's weird : (     Corrin & Jakob A, Silas & Azura C, Odin & Nyx B, Niles & Mozu A. Odin and Nyx's support is absolutely hilarious. "Odin Dark" is just Owain from Awakening's LARP identity and he's distraught to have met a Dark Mage with a cooler origin story than what he's got.  Silas can have this as a wedding gift. His bulk isn't bad, but it is below average and I do want him to try the Sol Master Ninja combo later.  Pairing off Corrin and Silas has unlocked two different paralogues, although I'm not going to do either just yet. Because both of these paralogues are for characters not exclusive to Conquest, they'll be much easier in difficulty. The AI also won't act like it does in Conquest, meaning enemies will attack your units even if they can't hurt them. Both of these paralogues will always have a few promoted enemies no matter your progress through the story, which make them great sources of EXP if you can do them early enough. ...unfortunately I don't think either of these children are going to be very good. A +magic Corrin isn't quite the optimal mother for Sophie, Silas's child. Meanwhile, Kana, Corrin's child... sucks. I think the devs overcorrected when they saw how powerful Morgan could be in Awakening.    I'll do any essential shopping I need right before I start Chapter 12, but I just want to do this while I remember. The upcoming chapter is full of a lot of powerful ranged enemies, so the tonics are for Odin and Niles who'll be fighting most of them. The Steel Axe I just bought because it was on sale, but Camilla could do with a replacement after she gave hers away to Elise.         Everybody's stats pre-chapter 12. I'm a little nervous for this one, but I'm sure things will be fine...  Kaze Ninja (HS: Samurai) A+ Support Classes: Silas (Cavalier), Xander (Cavalier) Personal Skill: Miraculous Save (When a partner in a support pair, grant lead unit a Luck% chance of surviving a fatal hit with 1 HP remaining if HP > 1. In other words, it gives the lead unit the Miracle skill (luck stat used is lead unit's, not Kaze's)) Growths (With default class): HP: 55% (60) STR: 40% (45) MAG: 0% (0) SKL: 45% (65) SPD: 65% (85) LCK: 20% (20) DEF: 20% (25) RES: 35% (50) It's Kaze! The Hoshidan counterpart to Silas, Kaze will always join you, no matter the route. And unlike in Birthright, he's not going to get killed off by the plot if you don't have an A support with him! Sometimes classes that are very annoying when used by the enemy turn out to mediocre in your own hands, but thankfully that is not the case with the Ninja. 1-2 range, debuffs, and great speed are all things you can use with great effectiveness, and Kaze is pretty much the quintessential ninja. He's fast, he's got great skill and great res, but his strength and physical bulk are lacking. His HP growth is deceptively high for an otherwise squishy unit, but don't expect it to make him into any sort of physical tank. Do expect him to absolutely tear enemy mages apart though, "mage killers" might be a bit of a meme in the Fire Emblem community but Kaze is absolutely built for being one thanks to his amazing res, 1-2 range, and weapon triangle advantage against tomes. His Luck is pretty bad though so you might want to feed him a Goddess Icon if you can spare one. Debuffs and Poison Strike might make Kaze well suited for player phase combat and setting up enemies for kills, but the mechanics of dual guard make him a surprisingly good enemy phase tank, so long as he's got a good partner to help shore up his defense a little. If Kaze doubles every enemy, then he'll fill up the dual guard gauge entirely after two rounds of combat, effectively blocking 1 in 3 attacks. Combine this with his high tendency to dodge, and his bad bulk might end up mattering deceptively little. Kaze makes for a pretty good user of the Sol Master Ninja combo, and unlike Silas he's got a lot more flexibility in who he can support to use it. He will however struggle to deal as much damage as Silas can, and he is quite a lot more fragile too. Charlotte is a pretty great support partner for Kaze if you want him to pull it off (although Charlotte is a great support partner for nearly everyone), but Selena can also give him Sol access while also increasing his bulk a little. Unfortunately, Kaze is lacking some of the tools that make ninjas so good that you would normally have in abundance in any other route. Shurriken weapons all give the user + 2 speed, but the only one Kaze has access to is the Steel Shurriken he joins with, which will slightly lower his avoid and make him require 1 more point of speed to double than a knife would. There is also the Flame Shurriken, but Kaze's non-existant magic makes it pretty much a joke weapon in his hands. Not having weapons such as the Dual and Sting Shurriken make him underperform compared to his Birthright self too, although at least in Conquest he won't have to compete with the amazing Saizo. Kaze's only Friendship Seal options both give Cavalier, but it's not a bad source of skills for him. Reclassing into Paladin and leveling until he gets Defender will give him the three skills he wants the most. As an actual combat class however he'll function pretty mediocrely. Samurai also has some interesting skills for Kaze - Vantage can help with a Sol Master Ninja build, while Seal Strength and Duellists Blow make him great for softening up foes on player phase. Again however he'll be pretty underwhelming as a Samurai in combat. Lastly, Kaze's kid comes with a great join chapter that is both an easy source of EXP and provides exclusive access to the Dragon Herbs, a stat booster that increases every stat by one. His daughter is also one of the few units to be able to access the Spendthrift skill, and her personal skill means she'll pick up Gold Bars more often than even Mozu can. As an actual combat unit she's pretty mediocre without a good mother so don't expect much from her in that department. TL;DR: Pros
Cons
...hmm, I feel like Kaze's huge list of pros and small list of cons might make him seem a little better than he actually is. He is good though, but maybe not that good! My Rating: More handsome than his brother but not quite as powerful. midnight lasagna fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Oct 12, 2021 |
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Oct 12, 2021 11:10
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I really hate taking Kaze out of Ninja. His bulk isn't helped much by Hero, and E swords sucks with his low strength. I guess if you glued General Effie to him it could work. I'd think getting Hero from Selena would work better since he would hit harder acting as bait. I also really like Mechanist for Kaze. It helps his bulk and range, E bows is fine for anyone who doubles everything in sight and he still provides +1 move on pair up. Also if Kaze gains no levels in the prologue chapters then he only has a D rank and an Iron Shuriken. The penalty from Steel doesn't affect him because he will always double everything forever.
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Oct 12, 2021 23:24
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I'm really confused by your child pairings. Are you just not planning on using any kids? it's weird that you wasted Elise on Percy, and why pair Silas and Corrin if they aren't good?
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Oct 12, 2021 23:36
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After reading the wiki I'm rooting for Keaton/Azura if nothing else. "...I'm holding a frog."
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Oct 12, 2021 23:37
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The only real interest I've ever had in Kana is stacking their personal, Renewal, and...idk, Relief or some other poo poo alongside the Dragonstone+ to make a BIG BOY.
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Oct 12, 2021 23:41
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Arthur was important to give Elise speed and strength. And if you're going to abuse Vow of Friendship then you're going to have Silas and Corrin paired up constantly anyway. Besides, Sophie's Paralogue is best for getting you a free Seal and a stat booster but you need stronger units for that. And Percy's gives you free money, but again you need better units to pull it off. And Kana's gives you some good XP, especially if you let the reinforcements arrive. That's my read on it.
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Oct 13, 2021 00:57
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The children feel functionally nerfed here. While they get more class reach and stuff, it takes a lot of resources to bounce them around classes. My runs didn't give the children special treatment other than vaguely trying to make physical with physical and magical with magical children. They were vastly underperforming compared to my regular units. Granted, hating the poo poo out of the Deeprealms in all its aspects probably made it so that I wasn't engaging particularly highly with it.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:38
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Obligatum VII posted:It's funny that Takumi is actually an ok dad... you know, relative to the fact that all the parents in Fates are garbage for dumping their kids in the deeprealms. At least Takumi is supportive of his goober child. I ended up taking your suggestion and giving Silas the shield. He probably deserves it. Walla posted:I really hate taking Kaze out of Ninja. His bulk isn't helped much by Hero, and E swords sucks with his low strength. I guess if you glued General Effie to him it could work. I'd think getting Hero from Selena would work better since he would hit harder acting as bait. I had no idea he could come with an Iron Shurriken, that's interesting... SloppyDoughnuts posted:I'm really confused by your child pairings. Are you just not planning on using any kids? it's weird that you wasted Elise on Percy, and why pair Silas and Corrin if they aren't good? You have made me realise I've not talked about my pairings at all though. I'll do that next time I do a between chapters update. Walla posted:Arthur was important to give Elise speed and strength. And if you're going to abuse Vow of Friendship then you're going to have Silas and Corrin paired up constantly anyway.
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Oct 13, 2021 13:37
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  Time to smash some pots. This chapter is... interesting. It might actually be one of my favourite chapters in the game? Or at least it could be, if the central gimmick it uses didn't need you to have a guide open in order to not be trial and error.  I forgot that characters dress in their class outfits during cutscenes. Wyvern Elise looks... weird. If it weren't for the boob window I'd say it suits her.  Anyway, Elise has contracted a mysterious disease and honourable big bro Ryoma is holding the cure hostage unless we either surrender or kick his butt.  The Elise thing isn't just flavour - she's out of commission entirely for this chapter. If you reclassed your servant and Elise is your only healer then this can come as a nasty surprise. Camilla can have her inventory for now. I guess that makes the spare Steel Axe I bought pointless for this chapter...  Chapter 12 in both Conquest and Birthright is an Escape chapter, with one of your big brothers as the boss. In BR Xander is meant to be an insurmountable wall of stats you're meant to run from, but in CQ you are given the option to defeat Ryoma as an alternate objective. There's three paths to the objective. The left and right both contain treasure chests but require you to open a locked door, the middle path is the most direct but is filled with dangerous enemies. The simple geography of the map is made more complex by the maze of pottery - each pot can be broken with an attack, but each one contains either a positive or a negative effect that will affect all units within two tiles when smashed. The game tells you which ones are good and which are bad, but that... isn't really enough information to make the informed decisions you'll need to take.  Using a dragon vein to oblierate every single pot at once is also an option... Although it's a much less viable option on Lunatic mode, which moves the dragon vein to a much more dangerous spot. The pots next to it will inflict Hex on whoever activates it, while also leaving you in range of a large group of enemies that will suddenly aggro on you. The closest of these enemies all use bows, which means tanking them with Camilla is out of the question. Unless you've already routed some of the enemies or are planning on making a mad dash for the escape point on the same turn then I wouldn't bother.  Ryoma guards one of three escape points at the top. Running straight past him is a viable option, but if you take him out you can grab some sweet EXP and a stat booster. His high stats all around and not insignificant crit rate make him a dangerous target, but that's what the Enfeeble staff from last chapter is for. Camilla can use the Dual Club against him for decent effect.   New recruits! These two are Xander's retainers. We have Inigo from Awakening with a nicer outfit and Lissa with a dye job. Only the latter of those is a joke. Laslow is like Selena but with worse speed and defenses, but better everything else (including HP). His combat is nothing special in this chapter but he does come with a personal skill that gives him a +1 str +1 speed rally. It is deceptively useful! Peri is a Cavalier with great strength, speed, and resistance, but mediocre to terrible anything else. Against my better judgement I am going to try using her since while I don't think she's particularly good, she is kind of fun.  Starting formations are especially important this chapter because of this one singular pot. Breaking it gives a +4 defense boost to the surrounding units, so you want to make sure the units who need it most are getting it.   The game is nice enough to tell you what could be in each pot at the start... but not what actually is. If you want to play this map well you really should just look up what exactly is in each one online.  The most important thing is to avoid the hex pots (the ones marked with a heart) if at all possible.  First things first, Odin breaks the def + 4 pot to give him and a few others the boost. I don't need him to rush ahead so he doesn't mind being the one who stays behind to break it.  The boosts stack with tonics so now he's very bulky. He'll be great at Nosferatu tanking some bow users who are going to show up as reinforcements soon...   Corrin and Silas speed up the left side. Neither of them are going to take any damage if they're paired up so I split them apart to bait the Samurai.   I really want Camilla to take this guy out but I also want her to go up the right side. If I had Elise I could try taking him out with her, but she has the flu : (. I already used Azura so I'll wait outside his range and rush him next turn.   Kaze smashes a mostly pointless magic pot and Camilla positions herself to defend him. I want Kaze to open the chest on the right side of the map and Camilla to back him up.  I guess this is Corrin and Silas's honeymoon? Marcarath is supposed to be a nice place for a holiday.  Dual attacks with weapons that debuff will debuff an enemy's stats, but skills won't activate if the unit with them is only supporting and not participating in combat fully. So Kaze can debuff with his shurriken but he can't use Poison Strike in a dual attack.  This pot slaps you with a Hex, the one next to it merely deals 30% of max HP in damage. It's a bit of a mean surprise if you don't expect it.   Laslow's rally is very helpful! I did actually calculate that the combination of it and Azura' dance would give Niles exactly enough speed to double... but I didn't work out that it would also allow him to cleanly KO. Sometimes things work out very nicely.  And now thanks to this debuff he won't ORKO any more. Oops.  A little secret is that you don't actually need to open this door to enter this room... The Shrine Maiden inside has an Entrap staff, which is like a Rescue staff except it works on enemies. You can leave a unit in her range to be grabbed by it. It can however miss the units you use it on, which means strategies that rely on it can potentially fail.  It was at this point I realised my expert strategy to speed Corrin and Silas to the west door doesn't really matter if there's nobody to actually open it for them. My plan was to have Niles fight the Ninjas in the middle and then swing to the left to open it for them, but he's not going to get there for a while...  Very nice. All stats that help with killing.    There are some of the ninjas I mean. Neither Saizo or Kagero are particularly dangerous on their own, but being paired up together makes them hard to take out. You don't have to fight either of them but Saizo drops a Flame Shurriken which you can't get elsewhere.   Peri's contributions in this chapter are normally just smashing pots and using Shelter, but I want to feed her EXP so I'm giving her the kill on these Samurai. Her growths are good but her join level is low and her base stats are a little shaky.  Peri's damage output is pretty nice. Her personal skill is the same as Shamir's from Three Houses and will boost her stats for the rest of the turn if she gets a kill.  The Entrap Maiden uses her staff, but little does she know that she's not locked Camilla in here with her... She's locked herself in here with Camilla. Also Kaze is coming too. I paired them up and had him in front since his avoid was slightly lower.  Eight of these jerks will spawn in on turn 4 and start advancing on your army. Alone they aren't dangerous, but in groups of 4 they can be deadly. Odin was given all those buffs specifically to deal with them.  It's only turn 4 but Niles isn't cutting through these ninjas as fast as I'd like. Maybe I should have sent Corrin & Silas down the middle to help deal with them...  These two Samurai are meant to defeat whoever gets warped in here, but it's not going so well for them. They won't attack Camilla on enemy phase so she can't take them out all that fast, but Kaze doesn't really want to be fighting them either.  Nice, those are all the stats I want.  Odin to the rescue! He won't take out the Apothecaries quickly, but he will distract them so they don't start shooting my other units.   These levels are great and all but where's res? Kaze's been neglecting it a little.  That's not true, I could go around you! I just want your stuff. Despite being a ninja, skill is Kagero's dump stat. She whiffed her hit on Niles and spared him a nasty debuff.  Odin fears not these Apothecaries... What kind of class is "Apothecary", anyway? I guess it's thematically appropriate to fight medicine men in medicine land, but this is Nohr territory so these wouldn't be the local apothecaries.  Now he's even harder to kill. These are great stats for Nosferatu tanking, not so much for doing... anything else.    I sure am getting a lot of mileage out of Laslow's rally. It's a shame I have no plans to keep him on my team.   Odin's dealing with the left Apothecaries fine, but the ones on the right are approaching. If Kaze had had to open the rightmost door then they would be going after him, but thankfully being warped in means the door is still closed. If only I had a second Odin...  I really wish I'd planned this better, Corrin and Silas are just wasting time up here. I hoped I could convince a Shrine Maiden to waste Silence uses on Corrin but apparently she doesn't count as a magic user even if she can use Dragonstones. The Silence staff stops a unit from using magic throughout their next turn, it's not the worst staff but it can be annoying if it shuts down a healer or a magic user who you need to defeat someone.    Saizo's only got 17 speed without Kagero to back him up. Niles had to eat a -6 debuff to strength thanks to Saizo's seal skill, but at least he either dodged or blocked every shurriken from him and Kagero...  Now that this room's clear, I need to break this pot to advance further... Which unfortunately contains a Hex spell. One of Kaze or Camilla is going to have to eat it in order to progress. Going back and commentating on these now makes me realise I could have had either of them stand in range of the ninjas in the room next to them so they could take out as many enemies as possible before breaking the pot. Would have made things a lot easier...   Regardless I did not do that and instead had Camilla smash the pot and eat the debuff. At least she's at full health now!    Peri steals a safe kill to allow Odin to move to the other side. Skill and speed are good! Azura also gets some useless magic.  Odin arrives in the nick of time to stop the Apothecaries from chasing down Azura and co. He's getting a lot of EXP from this!  Finally, Niles is on his way... I almost wish I'd just restarted the chapter and sent Niles to the left immediately. Oh well.  Holy crap, Nyx! If only you got levels like this all the time! Maybe I should promote her now so Odin can get better buffs from being paired up with her.   Oops, I may have aggro'd a large number of enemies by smashing that pot. Now if I were sensible I'd have had Kaze open the door and my units retreat... By this point Odin had lured all the scary bowmen outside away.  I decide to have Kaze stand on a defensive tile to bait some foes over and soften them up. I also smash a pot to heal 1 HP for... some reason??? I really don't understand why I did some of these things.  Jakob eats a mildly inconvenient Silence. Better he be Silenced now than later where it could mean life or death though.  Finally got this stupid door open!  It's looking like Camilla vs the world here. Her defense is good, but all these enemies have either Seal Defense or debuffing Shurrikens.   I'm not sure who to take out first... I really want all of these guys gone as soon as possible. I really did not think this through.  Thankfully by having Camilla stay in the corner to attack the ninja I manage to bait the Javelin guy to attack her at close range since he couldn't stand anywhere else. That was not intentional but it helped!  Every single seal def Spear Fighter who attacked her died in a counterattack. Now if I stand her here so she's not in range of every single unit she should survive another turn...   Neat, I guess.  I have 5 turns left to make progress. As you can see by the map I'm decently close to reaching the goal on the left and the right, but this really hasn't gone as well as it could have... Camilla at least is nearly safe, and my bad plan that somehow worked out ended up taking out a lot of the Spear Fighters at the top of the map. She just has to clear out the last few enemies so Kaze or Niles can grab the chest on her side.  A miss here will get Camilla killed. Please don't miss, Camilla! You defeated Oboro with hitrates like these!  Sometimes luck works out in your favour.  Now to have my units advance as fast as possible on the right. Yep, this sure is killing power I should have been using against the ninjas in the middle of the map instead of slowly chipping them down with Niles...    I'll just have to make up for lost time with some dancing. I've nearly broken through to Ryoma!  silas if you don't get defense i'm filing for divorce  These two are stuck down here with not much else left to do so I guess I'll lure over some straggler ninjas that Niles didn't take out. Owain and Inigo teaming up together, just like old times!  Time to kill a defenseless cleric for EXP. This is absolutely in character for Peri.  Treausre number one obtained. You can buy Armourslayers starting from Chapter 14, but they're expensive and there's a lot of armour units in Chapter 13 you'd want to use this on anyway.  Smashing this pot inflicts you with Freeze, which amounts to one big kaizo trap when it's right before the finish line. Silas was actually frozen in place by a Shrine Maiden with Freeze that Peri just killed, not the pot.  And this right here is why I wanted to use Enfeeble. Even without the crit chance, Silas does not want to fight this guy and that's with a VoF buff.  The Kodachi is a Hoshidan katana that functions like a Javelin. There's an enemy right near the end that drops one and you really want to grab it.  That's treasure number two. Money is important, but you can live without this.   This looks much better. Ryoma would still have a crit chance if it weren't for the Brass Naginata's crit lowering properties.   bye nerd  Elise can read this while she gets better from her illness.  Well that was... a victory. What I should have done was send Silas and Corrin up the middle with everyone else to clear out the ninjas, and given Camilla some healing items so she could have approached the right side of the map a lot more safely. I did manage to achieve all my objectives, but otherwise this map was one big panic that did not need to happen.  Oh right, Gunter fell down a big hole after Chapter 3. He's definitely gone forever and won't be coming back to join our party, no way.   I leave you with the horrible realisation that my almost untrained Nyx is now both faster and more powerful than Odin. His Nosferatu tanking might have been essential to my victories but I checked his average stats and aside from his good bulk he's not doing so well... Maybe I'll have to replace him when Ophelia joins. Next time: The babyrealms
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Oct 13, 2021 13:37
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That does make sense considering what has been shown so far in regards to pairings. Elise and Odin do not get much from being paired up but it does lead to their kid being an amazing magic unit.
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Oct 13, 2021 14:30
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Ugh Pot map though. Sure does suck to play when you don't know what any of the pots are actually going to do and have to reset every time someone eats a bad pot before enemy phase. It's not exactly difficult but it's just amazingly frustrating on the first run through.Hunt11 posted:That does make sense considering what has been shown so far in regards to pairings. Elise and Odin do not get much from being paired up but it does lead to their kid being an amazing magic unit. Elise and Odin rule because she's the only person who's extra enough to keep up with him. And yes, making Ophelia a monster is good. midnight lasagna posted:
Pair up Laslow and Selena. Get the best support string in Fire Emblem, I dare you.
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Oct 13, 2021 16:14
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If it weren't DLC-locked, Dark Falcon Peri is sort of fun. Bloodthirst boosts her magic to make up for her Clarine-level growth, and if you can get Galeforce, it lets her use the boost on the Player Phase. I've had recent success with Mozu Ophelia, but admittedly all of Mozu's kids will be good.
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Oct 13, 2021 22:36
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Nyx is magic and speed and nothing else. With Nyx for a mom, Ophelia will essentially be a slower Nyx with more bulk or a faster Odin with less bulk and skill. I haven't found anyone to do the Nostanking that even a poor Odin does, except for a reclassed Camilla. Next chapter has a great opportunity to show off how Nosferatu can just lock down an entire group of enemies. Lately I've been ignoring the Flame Shuriken. Unless I'm keeping Felicia as a Maid or doing a meme Elise build there's just no one to make good use of it. That also frees up a few more people to cover both sides, but I do often use 2 pairs of units for the Apothecaries. In a different world, Elise married Odin and became a Dark Knight to carry Odin to victory. Hunt11 posted:That does make sense considering what has been shown so far in regards to pairings. Elise and Odin do not get much from being paired up but it does lead to their kid being an amazing magic unit. Malig Knight does grant magic and def and move on pair up, similar to Dark Knight. And Dark Mage boosts defense I think. They don't help each other now, but once they're both promoted they compliment each other well.
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Oct 13, 2021 23:14
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midnight lasagna posted:I had no idea he could come with an Iron Shurriken, that's interesting... I might admittedly be wrong on that, but I do know his weapon rank scales along with his level. My current file that I branch everything from has him join at level 12 with 99 xp and a few attacks away from B rank. If I had managed to squeeze some more xp in the prologues he may have joined with a Silver Shuriken.
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Oct 13, 2021 23:19
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I think the Steel Shuriken in Kaze's inventory is fixed. You might be able to argue that an Iron Shuriken would be better, but I think an effective -1 Speed wouldn't hurt their users too much. And it's definitely better than being able to screw yourself into getting a Silver Shuriken  Weirdly enough, there is something that having Kaze's weapon rank be at B changes - a chest in Chapter 26. If it's rank C, it'll contain a Spy's Yumi, but if it's rank B or greater it'll contain a Spy's Shuriken.
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Oct 14, 2021 04:11
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So what is up with these characters from the previous entry showing up here? Does that only get addressed in supports, or does it ever become relevant to the plot (for whatever that's worth)?
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Oct 14, 2021 16:01
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A Bystander posted:So what is up with these characters from the previous entry showing up here? Does that only get addressed in supports, or does it ever become relevant to the plot (for whatever that's worth)? It is answered in the dlc.
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Oct 14, 2021 16:12
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It's blatant fan service and only half of them even got an attempt at an explanation via post launch dlc
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Oct 14, 2021 16:16
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Owain, Severa and Inigo were brought here by the spirit of an ancient dragon to fight another dragon and now are trapped. But you have to buy DLC for that story. Another DLC tells us that Nohr and Hoshido are the mythic past of the world of Awakening. The 3 in Birthright are just supposed to be lookalikes, except Caeldori is explicitly Cordelia before her squad is destroyed. Especially if Selena is her mother in Revelation.
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Oct 14, 2021 17:52
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Walla posted:Another DLC tells us that Nohr and Hoshido are the mythic past of the world of Awakening. On one hand it is good that everything about Fates world gets forgotten but on the other hand how does that fit in with anything else about the games Fates supposedly predates?
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Oct 14, 2021 17:58
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 Completing Chapter 12 unlocks the option to upgrade my resource farms so they give more of each resource. Upgrading a building also gives you another "use" of it instantly, so it's better to harvest your resources and then upgrade them to immediately get another use if you can.    Only 3 supports this time around. I've never actually raised Jakob and Silas's support past B rank in all my playthroughs of this game, so I have no idea where it goes... Incidentally, this is probably a good time to give a brief rundown of who's being paired up and why. Corrin & Silas is mostly because of how good the combination of Corrin's Supportive and Silas's Vow of Friendship is. But I'm also doing it because it's one of the easiest marriage options for Corrin to unlock, and Corrin's child paralogue is a great source of easy EXP that's even more valuable the earlier you do it. I think I might have over-exaggerated when I said the kids would be bad - Kana's definitely just a worse Corrin besides their potential to have very high stat caps if you combine a certain boon with a good parent, but Silas isn't a bad father for him. He'll make his strength and bulk better in exchange for making his magic and speed worse. Kana leans more towards magic than physical than a "normal" Corrin does, so he's not the ideal parent, but he's not bad either. Sophie is a much faster and more resistant Silas with less strength and defense. With a good mother she can easily be better than him (Vow of Friendship aside), with a bad or mediocre one she's a bit worse, although even if her growths aren't optimal she can still be faster than him and avoid his issue of being too slow to function well as a Cavalier in the lategame. A +mag -res Corrin for her isn't great, but isn't awful either. Sophie's natural magic growth is weirdly high for a physical unit so a +mag Corrin could let her function as a mixed attacker if I wanted. Elise & Arthur was just to make Elise work better as a Wyvern Rider early on. I am almost certainly ditching Arthur when she promotes, since as a mobile ranged attacker I imagine she'd rather take advantage of dual strikes than be glued to a support partner who won't boost her magic at all. Percy might be usable but I don't really care about him. Niles & Mozu I'm doing to make Niles an Archer. Mozu's pair-up bonuses are near useless for him and as a ranged unit he'll want to go solo anyway, so she's getting benched as soon as they hit S. Mozu is a great parent for nearly everyone thanks to Aptitude, and Niles's daughter might end up becoming a better version of him. In fact looking at her growths then with aptitude she will literally just be a better Niles, minus the ability to capture. Maybe I'll replace him, maybe I'll have two Niles running about. Azura & Jakob is purely for the child units (and their paralogues). A support parner is almost of no help to Azura, and Azura as a support partner is just a waste of a good unit. As a staffbot, Jakob is pretty much the same way. So it's a relationship based off of mutual neglect!!! Seriously though both Azura and Jakob's children can be made into good staffbots, and the two of them aren't bad parents for those. Azura's child can also be a great rallybot, who will have access to three different rally skills thanks to Jakob as a parent. Exactly why that happens is because of a weird quirk of Fates's inheritance system that I'll explain later. Odin & Nyx makes a pretty decent Ophelia, not as good as she could be but not bad either. Ideally I'd use Elise but I didn't want to have Elise paired up with a unit who gives magic and nothing else while she was at her weakest. Felicia's also not a bad choice but I won't get her for a short while yet. My original plan was to pair Odin with Camilla because I wanted to use them both and they were the only units on my list who were unpaired. I decided against it since I wanted to focus on Camilla's strength rather than her magic, and gluing her to Odin in the early chapters would make it hard to use her in emergencies. Camilla & Kaze... might not even be a pairing I do. I'm still figuring out what I want to do with Camilla. I wasn't even planning on using Kaze originally, I just liked the levels he got in chapters 4 and 5. It's possible I might drop him for Keaton when he shows up. Peri & Xander is entirely because I want to try out Wyvern Rider Peri. It seems like a fun idea! I'll maybe talk about this more later because Peri's only just showed up and Xander won't be here for a while. Xander's kid may as well be dead to me because the paralogue to unlock him is about as fun as undergoing dental surgery, and about as difficult as performing it. Maybe I'll do it anyway, assuming I don't get mad and give up. Leo is the last unit I'm planning on using. Who he pairs up with is currently up in the air. Right now I'm thinking either Felicia to get a magical Forrest or Beruka to get a decently bulky one whose magic won't get completely tanked. Who knows?  Also Elise can have this cool book Ryoma had because she desperately needs the accuracy. I hope Hoshido doesn't have its own language that she cannot read.           That's everyone! Elise is at the bottom because not being available shunted her to the bottom of the list. Forgetting to deploy her for like 3 chapters is definitely not something I would ever do because of this.  Laslow Mercenary (HS: Ninja) A+ Support Classes: Xander (Cavalier), Odin (Dark Mage), Keaton (Fighter) Personal Skill: Fancy Footwork (Use the "Rally" command to give Strength and Speed +1 to allies within two tiles - stacks with other rally skills, including rally str & speed) Growths (With Default Class): HP: 50% (60) STR: 45% (60) MAG: 0% (0) SKL: 45% (65) SPD: 30% (45) LCK: 55% (60) DEF: 35% (45) RES: 25% (30) Laslow's base speed growth isn't very high and he has slow in his name. He's not a unit I have much experience with, and I don't think he's a particularly good one, but he is still quite interesting! Laslow's growths are actually pretty solid, beside his bad speed. Unfortunately his bad speed is somewhat of a problem. His base isn't terrible, but it's not great for a class that's meant to take advantage of its speed (although it will be improved by taking away his Steel Sword). The boost Mercenary gives to his growth is good but it's not really enough to get him out of his speed rut either. Bad speed doesn't doom a unit, but unlike other slow units like Beruka he's not quite specialised combatwise enough to make up for it. Fancy Footwork however is a great personal skill and it allows Laslow to be useful even if he never fights anybody. +1 to arguably the most important stats can turn a lot of near misses into kills, and it even has the advantage of stacking with other rally skills. Rally Skill from Bow Knight might be the only rally Laslow gets naturally, but an A+ support with Keaton and S support with either Selena or Azura can grant him both Rally Strength and Rally Speed, turning Fancy Footwork into a plus 5 boost. He can also grab Rally Defense or Resistance by marrying a wyvern or a troubadour, although one of those class options is obviously a lot more effective than the other for him. Laslow's also the unit who has the easiest time accessing the Sol Master Ninja combo. Promote him into Hero for Sol, and then Heart Seal him into Master Ninja and you are done. He'll need an Arms Scroll or a lot of knife practice to use anything but Bronze though, so he still needs investment and time to be able to pull it off. He's also got a worse speed growth than Silas and is quite a bit less bulky, so he might not be the best user of it. Otherwise? I'm not really sure... I don't have a lot of experience using him. I think you can instantly promote him into a Bow Knight for decent effect, and then replace him with his daugter Soleil after he reaches an S support. Her growths are arguably better than his and her join chapter potentially rewards you with some neat stuff, so she's worth picking up. Pros
Cons
My Rating: Should have had pink hair like his mother.  Peri Cavalier (HS: Dark Mage) Personal Skill: Bloodthirst (Str/Mag/Skl/Spd + 4 for one turn after defeating an opponent on Player Phase) A+ Support Classes: Felicia (Troubadour), Charlotte (Fighter), Selena (Mercenary) HP: 30% (40) STR: 50% (65) MAG: 5% (5) SKL: 30% (40) SPD: 50% (60) LCK: 35% (50) DEF: 25% (35) RES: 45% (50) Personality wise, Peri is bottom tier. Spoiled rich kid who murders her own servants for fun does not make for a sympathetic character, and unlike other amoral jerks throughout the series she can't even make up for it by being funny. Apparently she's got some tragic backstory but like who cares. She would not be out of place amongst the ranks of Hans and Iago. As a unit she's not great either... But bad personality & bad unit = underdog I am bizarrely compelled to use. She's not without her uses, but she takes a little investment. Peri's one of the many girls in this game with 50% strength and speed or over. She hits fast and hard and has weirdly good res, although the latter is only situationally useful given her lack of good 1-2 range. Cavalier's a fine class, and instant access to Elbow Room and Shelter never hurts. Her accuracy is a little shaky and her physical bulk isn't amazing either... She's also pretty underleveled for the chapter she shows up. You'll definitely have to feed her kills when she first joins, but once she gets some speed procs she'll start to shine. Paladin plays to her strengths more but Great Knight can fix her defense issues. Bloodthirst is a very cool personal skill, albiet stuck on a unit who doesn't quite make good use of it. Peri needs to kill a unit on her turn and then either be left in range of enemies or be danced to kill again afterwards. The statboosts from Bloodthirst will easily push her into ORKO territory against most enemies, and the skill boost will help her hit too. Unfortunately her bulk's not great so she's unlikely to be able to run into a crowd and slaughter everyone on their turn, and her lack of good 1-2 range means she'll only be killing the 1 range units on enemy phase. It's very good for killing bosses and tough if you use Azura to dance her though. Peri really wants the Heartseeker skill from Dark Mage to improve her mediocre accuracy. She would also quite like Lifetaker from Dark Knight to heal her up after she gets a kill to activate her personal ability. Otherwise, don't make her a mage. She has high strength and almost no magic, there's nothing there for her. Dark Knight's not an awful class for a physical attacker, but it really doesn't offer anything that Paladin or Great Knight don't. As for her Friendship Seal options, Hero or Bow Knight might not be bad reclass options for her, and Quick Riposte will make her personal even better. They'll both shore up her bad skill anyway, and they can make use of her axe rank. Fighter's not bad either, and suits her good offenses quite well, but if you want her to stay as a Fighter then you may as well just use Charlotte. Pros
Cons
My Rating: Still using her though!
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Oct 14, 2021 19:32
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Hunt11 posted:On one hand it is good that everything about Fates world gets forgotten but on the other hand how does that fit in with anything else about the games Fates supposedly predates? It doesn't but it really doesn't matter. Each game takes place on a different landmass and all have happened before Awakening. So far in the past that they're all legends.
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Oct 14, 2021 20:19
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Laslow is a bit of an oddity, with bases and growths I'd more traditionally associate with a fighter than a mercenary. I've used him multiple times and he's always been solid for me, if generally unexciting. He's got decent enough bulk but is mostly focused on that strength and skill, and speed being a bit shaky can easily spiral out of control for him if he misses too many in a row. For fun, compare his growths to Selena - the extra HP and Str are really where he stands out, but he's still got lower Def and Res growths and gets clobbered on Spd. It kinda plays with the red and green knight archetypes in a way that's slightly less traditional. Still, both of the two mercenaries have good enough growths in pretty much everything that while they're rarely going to blow you away, they tend to be consistently good. And worse comes to worst he can always just be a good rallybot! Peri is bad and no one likes her. She's also way too glassy to see much combat later on, and even her passive doesn't really help with that. Her bases are also pretty dire. She's got access to plenty of good classes through Friendship and Partner seals, at least...?
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Oct 14, 2021 21:06
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It’s kind of funny to me that the fan service characters are just so thoroughly unimpressive. They each have their own neat tricks and all, but they just seem weaker than what you’d expect from being returning fanservice characters. Odin’s probably got the most use from Nosferatu, where it always gives him a purpose at least initially.
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Oct 14, 2021 21:16
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Honestly, I'm also kind of baffled that they'd put the returning hero characters on the bad guy side. I guess maybe IntSys felt they weren't Japanese enough to fit in with Hoshido?
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Oct 14, 2021 21:19
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Hunt11 posted:On one hand it is good that everything about Fates world gets forgotten but on the other hand how does that fit in with anything else about the games Fates supposedly predates? It's literally a single comment by Chrom at the beginning of the map, so probably as much as Ike's descendant showing up in Awakening. However, one big plot point of Fates is the Outrealms. It's how the kids from Awakening got here, it's where the children of our units are raised, it's where the First Dragons came from. We even fight enemies from the Outrealms several times in all 3 routes, and they're a big part of the plot of Revelation. So maybe parallel/alternate world rather than legend of the past. Which implies that the "reincarnations" of Birthright could actually be Tharja, Gauis and Cordelia before they crossed over to the world of Awakening. Cythereal posted:Honestly, I'm also kind of baffled that they'd put the returning hero characters on the bad guy side. I guess maybe IntSys felt they weren't Japanese enough to fit in with Hoshido? Could you see Owain as an Onmyoji? 
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Oct 14, 2021 22:37
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Walla posted:Could you see Owain as an Onmyoji? I dunno, but I could see him as an Owainmyoji.
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Oct 14, 2021 22:52
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Walla posted:It's literally a single comment by Chrom at the beginning of the map, so probably as much as Ike's descendant showing up in Awakening. That explanation kind of requires you to take Fate's story and writing seriously, which well...... Let's just say that is not within my capacity.
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Oct 15, 2021 00:00
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Keldulas posted:That explanation kind of requires you to take Fate's story and writing seriously, which well...... I would love for someone competent to go through the scripts for all 3 routes and the supports and do a rewrite for Conquest and Birthright. There is a good core there, and the overall scenario has so many parallels with the plot of Shadows of Valentia that I think 2 good routes could still exist. Sadly it'll never happen.
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Oct 15, 2021 00:20
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Cythereal posted:Honestly, I'm also kind of baffled that they'd put the returning hero characters on the bad guy side. I guess maybe IntSys felt they weren't Japanese enough to fit in with Hoshido? The DLC explanation is effectively that they're supposed to be watching over Corrin, because Corrin's the one that's obviously going to fix the mess going on in Fates, and the trio will be allowed to go back to their original world after everything is done. That's why they're with Nohr at the beginning, because they've joined up with that side in order to do their job. Except they just never bother to ever switch sides if you choose Birthright, and in fact all fight to the death against you - ignoring both their given reason to be there in the first place and any chance of going home again to see friends and family. It's probably yet another case of no one writing one story bothering to check what someone else writing another was doing, but in essence it's incredibly dumb.
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Oct 15, 2021 00:35
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We know the story and supports were written by different teams, so it would not surprise me if the DLC was done by yet a third team.
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Oct 15, 2021 00:40
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Walla posted:I would love for someone competent to go through the scripts for all 3 routes and the supports and do a rewrite for Conquest and Birthright. There is a good core there, and the overall scenario has so many parallels with the plot of Shadows of Valentia that I think 2 good routes could still exist. The problem, even if those with the rights cared enough to do that, is that you'd be shackling a theoretical good writer to the stinking fetid corpse that is the game's existing baseline. - There's no reason for children characters to exist. They're only in the game because people loved them in Awakening. Awakening's children had a reason to exist and a goal, which helped give at least a baseline of writing to work with. Fates children start existing with plot contrivance and have literally no impact on events. - Contributing to the next problem, there's too many loving characters. This is Fire Emblem bloat at its worst. So on the character/support side alone, this one writer or writing team already has a hideously huge task ahead of them. Now for story: - There's no real coherence to events. A lot of maps don't make sense on an individual level, never mind how they fit into a greater narrative. - The major goal of the routes don't really have incremental progress, it's really unsatisfying to play. - If Japanland has all the abundances possible and Nohr has nothing to the point starvation is commonplace, how is Nohr remotely a threat to Japanland? - Corrin is the big gaping canker, being a self-insert avatar. They can't ever do wrong, yet need to face challenges. The result is an incompetent bland character that has no real impact on events as things contrive themselves into place. Either they're accidentally murdering swaths of people in Birthright for pathos or they're somehow never killing anyone themselves in Conquest to stay righteous. What's the point?
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Oct 15, 2021 01:34
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Keldulas posted:The problem, even if those with the rights cared enough to do that, is that you'd be shackling a theoretical good writer to the stinking fetid corpse that is the game's existing baseline. It can work — it’ll just look a lot different once the dust settles. quote:- There’s no reason for children characters to exist. They’re only in the game because people loved them in Awakening. Awakening’s children had a reason to exist and a goal, which helped give at least a baseline of writing to work with. Fates children start existing with plot contrivance and have literally no impact on events. Remove them. quote:- Contributing to the next problem, there’s too many loving characters. This is Fire Emblem bloat at its worst. Can’t help you there, but the removing kids might affect how the size of the cast is perceived. quote:- Corrin is the big gaping canker, being a self-insert avatar. They can't ever do wrong, yet need to face challenges. The result is an incompetent bland character that has no real impact on events as things contrive themselves into place. Either they're accidentally murdering swaths of people in Birthright for pathos or they're somehow never killing anyone themselves in Conquest to stay righteous. What's the point? Then make ‘em more morally gray in the relevant direction. Same for their side. It’d be a big job and would probably require stripping the game down to the concepts—but I think it could be done.
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Oct 15, 2021 01:53
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I don't know. I think Three Houses is a testament to the problem of trying to make good and evil routes. Per IntSys in interviews, Edelgard's route was explicitly meant as a full-on evil route where you team up with the villain. But there are many, many people who vehemently disagree.
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Oct 15, 2021 01:57
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Cythereal posted:I don't know. I think Three Houses is a testament to the problem of trying to make good and evil routes. Per IntSys in interviews, Edelgard's route was explicitly meant as a full-on evil route where you team up with the villain. But there are many, many people who vehemently disagree.
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Oct 15, 2021 02:37
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