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No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

Your Computer posted:

i love metroidvanias to death and honestly and genuinely i can only think of hollow knight which has good/fun boss fights (in addition to dread, i mean)

it's the perennial weakness of the genre


e: fwiw i think there's (several) good reasons for that - in all the traditional metroid and castlevania games the player character has taken up a fairly large portion of the screen with even larger bosses, making the arenas very cramped. they've also had little to no movement abilities (like dashes) or counter-defensive like parries or the hollow knight pogo.

both dread and hollow knight have the strength of having much more screen real estate and defensive abilities and movement abilities. you're just able to design much better fights around that

The DS Castlevanias had pretty good bosses, OoE especially. Momodora: Reverier Unde the Moonlight is a much smaller title but that had cool Souls-esque fights too

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Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Setter is Better.
Super Metroid bosses ftw

Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Oct 13, 2021

ZeeBoi
Jan 17, 2001

OK so the final boss isn't too bad, I managed to get to the phase after he loses his wings and didn't do well at avoiding the big blasts and those "sun" rays.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Setter is Better.

ZeeBoi posted:

OK so the final boss isn't too bad, I managed to get to the phases after he loses his wings and didn't do well at avoiding the big blasts and those "sun" rays.

powerbomb when he deploys the sun, it kills it and gives you supplies

ZeeBoi
Jan 17, 2001

Feels Villeneuve posted:

powerbomb when he deploys the sun, it kills it and gives you supplies

Excellent, thanks for the tip!

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Setter is Better.
e) double post

Blaziken386
Jun 27, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Super Metroid bosses ftw


speaking of Hollow Knight do you get damage upgrades ever? I'm trying to beat a boss and having issues and was wondering if you got damage upgrades at any point to make things easier (it's Brooding Mawlek)
Yes, but you have to pay for them/find materials.

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!
Maybe I'm just getting old or super dumb, but the EMMI in Ghavoran... I tried 10+ times to get past as specific room. Any ideas how to handle this one? Theres a normal door directly above a grapple beam one, and a grapple beam pit on the right room after with water at the bottom. I cant for the life of me get past this one

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story

Your Computer posted:

personally I can't imagine they'd drop it. also now they have a very convenient way to keep calling the game metroid even after all the metroids were extinct by the third game :pram:

Hopefully Samus is less racist and homophobic than the last person to carry the title of Ultimate Warrior.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


FrickenMoron posted:

Maybe I'm just getting old or super dumb, but the EMMI in Ghavoran... I tried 10+ times to get past as specific room. Any ideas how to handle this one? Theres a normal door directly above a grapple beam one, and a grapple beam pit on the right room after with water at the bottom. I cant for the life of me get past this one

Flash shift should let you clear the water so you can just zip through that room. Also, don't forget grapple pulls you to the blue walls. I don't know how applicable it is for that section.

ROJO
Jan 14, 2006

Oven Wrangler
What all counts for the in game timer? I assume anytime you are in control, but not cutscenes, pausing, or staring at the map? And EMMI/boss attempts you fail on and restart from outside the door are wiped away I assume?

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Twelve by Pies posted:

Hopefully Samus is less racist and homophobic than the last person to carry the title of Ultimate Warrior.

Pirates and X out of Zebes

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

ROJO posted:

What all counts for the in game timer? I assume anytime you are in control, but not cutscenes, pausing, or staring at the map? And EMMI/boss attempts you fail on and restart from outside the door are wiped away I assume?

The clock stops for pausing/map checking, but cutscenes are added to it even when skipped.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Finished a replay of Samus Returns. Still has the faults (small enemy pool, levels that blur together, adherence to original's grindy progression) but much easier this time.

There was only one attack of the Queen I couldn't pin down, where she lights up the floors, spews globs everywhere, and shoots a laser from the bottom up. The final boss is very managable as his every move is fairly telegraphed.

Diggernaut should deal less damage given how long and instense his fights is. Its fine if you colour inside the margins but the game could afford to be less punishing when you miss a beat.

100 percent is incredibly forgiving since you have a mapping tool and a slow-motion buff. Having zero obnoxious shine-spark puzzles puts it above Zero Mission in my book.

Past the Kraid fight in Super Metroid replay and it feels pretty miserable. As the oldest game this is officially due for some kind of remaster. No ledge-grabbing, no item-tally, dated controls, and the airborne velocity of a pregnant cow. Wall jumping is also horrible.

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

Inspector Gesicht posted:

There was only one attack of the Queen I couldn't pin down, where she lights up the floors, spews globs everywhere, and shoots a laser from the bottom up. The final boss is very managable as his every move is fairly telegraphed.

The answer to that one is to spiderball on the wall and powerbomb cannon yourself into the Queen's head.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


TaurusOxford posted:

The answer to that one is to spiderball on the wall and powerbomb cannon yourself into the Queen's head.

gently caress.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

TaurusOxford posted:

The clock stops for pausing/map checking, but cutscenes are added to it even when skipped.

That makes me feel a bit better about 40mins after beating the first boss on my "quick" attempt. I'm tempted to look up some benchmarks so I know if I'm at least on track for a 4-hour clear.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Augus posted:

there’s another one if you bring the screw attack into the Escue fight

you can do that? i'm gonna have to look up a skip compilation or something

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

Ciaphas posted:

you can do that? i'm gonna have to look up a skip compilation or something

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk3yCa43FDQ

Orange Crush Rush
May 7, 2009

You don't need thumbs for revenge

Ciaphas posted:

you can do that? i'm gonna have to look up a skip compilation or something

On my second run I had the Flash Shift before I fought Kraid. I kind just stumbled onto it as well lol.

Bismack Billabongo
Oct 9, 2012

New Love Glow

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Super Metroid bosses ftw

I’m up to phantoon right now and he keeps killing me. I hate this creepy gently caress.

Bismack Billabongo
Oct 9, 2012

New Love Glow
Crocomire rules though. Kraid is a cool design but annoying fight.

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!

Oxyclean posted:

Flash shift should let you clear the water so you can just zip through that room. Also, don't forget grapple pulls you to the blue walls. I don't know how applicable it is for that section.

Going fast did indeed help. It's been dealt with!

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



tuo posted:

Rest assured, the next EMMI won't have that.

I somehow get the feeling that the word "next" is doing some heavy lifting in that sentence...

snohax
May 30, 2011

Regarding plot and future game speculation, I wonder if the energy you get for the Omega Cannon is actually phazon, possibly some kind of refined or artificial version that doesn't corrupt everything (yet). Of course I have zero evidence for this other than "it blue."

Mostly it just amuses me to imagine the Chozo developing New Phazon and immediately injecting it into their brain-computers to get more clock cycles.

Surprise T Rex
Apr 9, 2008

Dinosaur Gum
I've just gotten to The Mid-Game Exposition Cutscene and the fight immediately following that is insane. It's like playing 2D Devil May Cry.

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

I thought Sakamoto was very cool on the Prime series and didn't consider them in his canon? I'd be surprised they were meant to be explicit plot references to Phazon, although the aesthetic design does seem to be a nod and a wink towards it

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


multijoe posted:

I thought Sakamoto was very cool on the Prime series and didn't consider them in his canon? I'd be surprised they were meant to be explicit plot references to Phazon, although the aesthetic design does seem to be a nod and a wink towards it

that was a mistranslation iirc, what he said was that the Prime games were their own self-contained story with a different tone and style from the rest of the franchise. in fact he explicitly said he does consider them canon.

Augus fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Oct 13, 2021

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
nintendo rerelease the prime games already so i can play them

I have a Wii and could buy them used, but that's like two whole hassles.

bladeworksmaster
Sep 6, 2010

Ok.

multijoe posted:

I thought Sakamoto was very cool on the Prime series and didn't consider them in his canon? I'd be surprised they were meant to be explicit plot references to Phazon, although the aesthetic design does seem to be a nod and a wink towards it

So this interview gets brought up out of context a lot as a gotcha to Sakamoto, but this Reddit thread goes into a lot of his interviews on the topic where he has nothing but glowing praise for Retro Studios and the Prime games, and he was more than encouraging to let them do their own thing. One of the more relevant quotes, however:

Yoshio Sakamoto interview with Hobby Consolas, 2018 posted:

The Metroids (2D) in which I have worked and the Metroid Prime are two different sagas; there is no direct link between their stories. When the Prime saga started, I agreed with its producers that we should try to preserve the timelines and a minimum level of consistency, but also be free to create the games that we considered appropriate and avoid doing anything that would coerce the other.

In addition, Proteus Ridley in Samus Returns is pretty much a smoking gun linking the Prime games directly into series continuity.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


I hear fans arent too hot on Prime 2 because it has few checkpoints and a muddled dual-world system?

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Prime 2 rules

CuddleCryptid
Jan 11, 2013

Things could be going better

Inspector Gesicht posted:

I hear fans arent too hot on Prime 2 because it has few checkpoints and a muddled dual-world system?

I mean I don't know how it holds up but Dark Aether scared the piss out of me when I was a kid. It was basically a horror game for that. It was great.

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

Inspector Gesicht posted:

I hear fans arent too hot on Prime 2 because it has few checkpoints and a muddled dual-world system?

Echoes has gotten more love as time has gone on. It'll probably forever be stuck in Prime's shadow, but hey, that's almost thematically appropriate. :v:

bladeworksmaster
Sep 6, 2010

Ok.

Prime 2's gotten a lot more respect from people as time goes on, with more than a fair few liking it better than even the first one. The two are very close on my personal list, and before Dread I'd have put it as my second favorite game in the series.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

gently caress the spider ball fight

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

RBA Starblade posted:

gently caress the spider ball fight

That fight got considerably better in the Trilogy version with jumpball, but yeah. Echoes' biggest problems is that while it has higher highs than Prime, it also has lower lows.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Prime 2 had a 3d Screw Attack that somehow didn't completely suck so I have to honor it for that if nothing else

TeaJay
Oct 9, 2012


I'm currently stuck at Dairon and can't find my way through the EMMI zone, both ways to Control unit seem to be closed for me. Am I supposed to take the shuttle to the next area and find progress there?

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SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

Prime 2 is great. Absolutely my favorite of the Primes. It's actually pretty hard in a satisfying way. I enjoyed the hell out of it.

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