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By the way, I know it ultimately doesn't matter since you're showing how it's done, but have you had to do a lot of restarts over the course of the LP so far aside from the ones you shown?
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Oct 15, 2021 02:40
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FrozenPhoenix71 posted:Jesus christ, do you not have anything better to do than trod this diatribe out again. Calm down. I wasn't debating Edelgard's morality. I was just noting that IntSys described it in an interview, after release, as an evil route. And I also noted that many fans disagree. I brought it up as an example of how trying to do morally grey/'bad guy' route splits may not be a great idea, because that kind of thing tends to depend heavily on the eye of the beholder. I mean, I prefer Nohr in Fates out of sheer perverse spite at how magically perfect Hoshido is, but that's different. I think there's always a danger if you set out to write an alternate evil path that some people, by their own values and beliefs, will sincerely go "X DID NOTHING WRONG." And that kind of thing tires me, anytime it pops up. I'd rather have one cohesive, well-written campaign with twice the content than two half-baked campaigns. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 02:49
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Quackles posted:Remove them. I totally agree with this (and would say that removing the Awakening characters in general would be a good idea) but I really doubt any writer would get enough freedom from outside meddling to manage this.
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Oct 15, 2021 03:26
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I found bow knight perry to be really solid. Pop a dude and then use the stat boost over and over again for dual attacks.
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Oct 15, 2021 03:28
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One of the things I'll definitely compliment Fates for is making Bows not the 'useless weapon'. The fact that you actually want Archers for the first time is kind of a refreshing change.
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Oct 15, 2021 03:36
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Cythereal posted:Calm down. I wasn't debating Edelgard's morality. I was just noting that IntSys described it in an interview, after release, as an evil route. And I also noted that many fans disagree. That is the first I have ever heard of it being referred as such.
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Oct 15, 2021 03:56
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Keldulas posted:One of the things I'll definitely compliment Fates for is making Bows not the 'useless weapon'. The fact that you actually want Archers for the first time is kind of a refreshing change. Thankfully this is the one Fates thing that did stick for the rest of the franchise, both Echoes and 3H had great bows and archers. Hopefully that won't change now.
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Oct 15, 2021 04:14
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Fates is also where they start finally trying to make Armor Knights and Generals into an alright class.
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Oct 15, 2021 04:27
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I think Fates gets extra credit for having bows be good while still having them be locked to two range :V Echoes lets bows be 1~2 range (with further bonuses if you're using actual bows or promoted archers) and Three Houses lets you get Close Counter or whatever they call it pretty early (at least for characters good with bows, I think). Fates does have Point Blank but it's DLC/enemy exclusive and I don't think that's actually, like... part of why people like bows in Fates. Not that that's bad I just think it's more impressive they made bows good while keeping the main "design flaw".
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Oct 15, 2021 04:33
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Yeah 3H's answer to just having a skill tax of Close Counter was kind of boring.
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Oct 15, 2021 05:03
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Hunt11 posted:That is the first I have ever heard of it being referred as such. tl;dr (and please don't jump down my throat for this) there was an interview after the game's release where IntSys described Crimson Flower as the 'supreme ruler tyrant' route and that Silver Snow is the 'true empire' route, and that Edelgard was designed to be Byleth's dark mirror and arch-enemy. In case you didn't pick up on the subtext, the Crest of Flames is 3H's version of the Fire Emblem, and IntSys had the idea "What if the hero and villain of the story both had the Fire Emblem?" Keldulas posted:Yeah 3H's answer to just having a skill tax of Close Counter was kind of boring. I think it also helped a lot that in 3H there were so many ways to get range beyond 2 tiles. I usually drop Close Counter from my archers late in the game because it just plain stops coming up. golden bubble posted:Fates is also where they start finally trying to make Armor Knights and Generals into an alright class. I think that Armor Knights and Generals depend on map design more than anything else. Mobility tends to be king in most games, and that's what usually kills those classes. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 12:43
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Cythereal posted:tl;dr (and please don't jump down my throats for this) there was an interview after the game's release where IntSys described Crimson Flower as the 'supreme ruler tyrant' route and that Silver Snow is the 'true empire' route, and that Edelgard was designed to be Byleth's dark mirror and arch-enemy. I will never understand the thoughts of the doofus who decided that the tank unit should be near incapable of being the first unit to reach the fight. I understand even less how nobody changed this over the course of more than a dozen entries in the series.
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Oct 15, 2021 12:49
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Cythereal posted:tl;dr (and please don't jump down my throat for this) there was an interview after the game's release where IntSys described Crimson Flower as the 'supreme ruler tyrant' route and that Silver Snow is the 'true empire' route, and that Edelgard was designed to be Byleth's dark mirror and arch-enemy. In case you didn't pick up on the subtext, the Crest of Flames is 3H's version of the Fire Emblem, and IntSys had the idea "What if the hero and villain of the story both had the Fire Emblem?" So you're the villain? 
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Oct 15, 2021 16:18
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FoolyCharged posted:I will never understand the thoughts of the doofus who decided that the tank unit should be near incapable of being the first unit to reach the fight. I understand even less how nobody changed this over the course of more than a dozen entries in the series. Part of the problem is that Knights/Generals are usually not even more durable. Dodging is just too valuable and they’re the worst at it, not to mention speed being tied to doubling. They just have a laundry list of oopsies. The movement is also still a bugbear yeah. Fates oddly fixed this somewhat in addition to the Bow thing. Generals getting that skill to stop doubling period did a lot to make them suck less, and Pair Up existing means they can actually piggyback on someone to teach the fight first. I think that’s why I can at least respect a lot of Fates gameplay design because that’s where it felt they were at least trying.
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Oct 15, 2021 17:23
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FoolyCharged posted:I will never understand the thoughts of the doofus who decided that the tank unit should be near incapable of being the first unit to reach the fight. I understand even less how nobody changed this over the course of more than a dozen entries in the series. It's a lot like the Ice type in Pokémon, I think - as a type in a vacuum, it's pretty fragile but pretty good offensively. So it's a type that benefits from being fast and offensive, yeah? Except most Ice Pokémon are mostly glaciers, mostly because of... well, glaciers, and those Ice-types are generally based on bulkier animals (because they have to survive the cold). The association with both makes sense in a vacuum it's just that they collide in a very unfortunate intersection. Armor units are in a similar boat. It makes sense for a heavily armored unit to have high defenses (be a tank). It also makes sense for that armor to weigh them down. That "realism" is a huge problem when you actually have to move them into position, though.
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Oct 15, 2021 18:24
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Keldulas posted:It’s kind of funny to me that the fan service characters are just so thoroughly unimpressive. They each have their own neat tricks and all, but they just seem weaker than what you’d expect from being returning fanservice characters. A Bystander posted:By the way, I know it ultimately doesn't matter since you're showing how it's done, but have you had to do a lot of restarts over the course of the LP so far aside from the ones you shown? LiefKatano posted:I think Fates gets extra credit for having bows be good while still having them be locked to two range :V Echoes lets bows be 1~2 range (with further bonuses if you're using actual bows or promoted archers) and Three Houses lets you get Close Counter or whatever they call it pretty early (at least for characters good with bows, I think). Fates does have Point Blank but it's DLC/enemy exclusive and I don't think that's actually, like... part of why people like bows in Fates. FoolyCharged posted:I will never understand the thoughts of the doofus who decided that the tank unit should be near incapable of being the first unit to reach the fight. I understand even less how nobody changed this over the course of more than a dozen entries in the series.
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Oct 15, 2021 21:24
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  Time to enter the hyperbolic baby chamber. Our village saving record is current 1-1 right now, 1 Flame Tribe settlement saved from Faceless and one random Hoshidan village torn apart before we got there. Hopefully all the dragon blood stays inside everyone's bodies.  This endless wheat field (or rice paddy?) seems the perfect place to raise a child! Running through wheat fields is an activity I'm told children do, or at least did back in the day.  The purple guys arrive and Corrin shows some anger that really might have done some good if it came out earlier in the story... Like during all those times Garon tried to have her killed. Maybe she really just hates purple guys.  Our little boy is all grown up! This is what you look like when your mother is a dragon and your father rides a horse. Obviously Kana is not actually going to join as a Feral Dragon, but this is how he'll be for the rest of the chapter. Kana will sit still until enemies enter his range, at which point he'll rush the easiest target. Most enemies aren't much of a threat at all, but the stronger ones can wear him down. The longer in the story you put this chapter off the stronger enemies become, and thanks to how quickly Kana will hit his caps as a Feral Dragon he won't be able to keep up with them, so chapter can potentially be tricky if you do it quite late. Incidentally, because Kana won't actually join until the end of the chapter, his stats and inherited skills won't be decided until then either! If a parent gains a skill mid-chapter he'll inherit that one instead of what he has now. ...the wiki says Kana can be KO'd and you'll still recruit him at the end but part of me is skeptical. I won't let that happen anyway.  This map is a big open field with dragon veins that can turn ditches into small streams to halt the enemy's advance. They'll also halt your own advance, but keeping the enemies away isn't a bad idea if you find yourself overwhelmed. All the enemies are split into different groups that each aggro at different times if left alone. Reinforcements will start showing up at the end of turn 8 which honestly is quite lentient. The first time I played this game I didn't even realise the chapter had reinforcements.   The boss is far weaker than his promoted flunkies. This might be a quirk of doing the paralogue relatively early - the boss's stats are tailored to your join time, while some generics will always be promoted regardless of when you try it and will have generic promoted stats. Not all enemies on the map are promoted, thankfully.   I'm short on slots and decide to take Arthur over Kaze, since I'm not even sure if I'm using Kaze but I do definitely want to feed Elise kills. She needs Arthur to give her stats if she's going to make any!    Luck has it that Niles just about avoids the 2HKO from these Archers, allowing him to survive a round with all 3 on enemy phase thanks to dual guards. This means he can take out the Shrine Maiden keeping them all alive on turn 1.  Meanwhile Odin has nothing to fear from these magic users. This map is a game of avoiding the range of groups you don't want to engage yet, so Odin has to stand carefully out of range of the Samurai near him.  The deep red radius here marks the range of the Falcoknight squad. They'll move starting from turn 2. They're all quite tough so I'd rather they come to me as late as possible.   Odin cannot defeat clerics (or any enemy really...) very fast so he just has to live with the one on his side until someone else deals with it.  The first wave of fliers arrive, but these ones are unpromoted and weak. I'll want to make sure none of them lure Kana to attack or else he'll start getting in the way and taking my EXP. He will at least absolutely annihilate any unpromoted enemy he touches.  Silas skillfully grabs a kill from just outside the danger zone so that Camilla can be the only one standing there by the end of the turn. He's really getting a lot of mileage out of dual attacks with that Javelin, no wonder it's in his official character art.  Corrin has a projectile of her own now too! It is a katana she literally just chucks. Katana chucks, yo.  EXP is the entire reason I'm doing this chapter so early. Peri appreciates the kills most of all since she's the lowest level.  ...unfortunately I left her in range of a single enemy I didn't want to. Oops! It happens.  Check out her Bloodthirst boosted stats though. An Azura dance would boost her speed even further, enough for her to double most things.  Jakob's staff-filled inventory leaves him with room for only one weapon, so I decided to give him the Flame Shurriken. His magic is slightly lower than his strength but the big increase in weapon might makes up for it. Also it explodes.   His levels have started sucking lately. His early ones were so promising... Azura meanwhile is becoming magical for some reason.  There goes the last Archer! Enough attacks aimed at Niles managed to miss which meant I could have him take them all out without having to retreat to heal. Luck really is on his side today.  Camilla needed Azura's dance to avoid the double from this Falcoknight thanks to them having Darting Blow. The promoted generics here are about as tough as she is.  Corrin married Silas thinking she could fix him and his inability to get defense...  Hmm, maybe Niles should have been sent to the part of the map with all the fliers instead.   I only took this risk because I had people left to fix it if she missed. On my first ever playthrough (a normal mode iron man) Peri died almost immediately because she whiffed an 87% hit.  This is the type of level Silas should be getting...  Finally, Camilla levels up- oh. Camilla your name is literally in the title you can't let me down like this  EXP, EXP, EXP. It's a shame both the units I want to feed EXP to the most have slight accuracy issues.  Here come the Samurai. That Swordmaster is stronger than the boss, he could be scary!   He also has Vantage so I'll just let Silas kill him rather than trying to set up a dangerous kill for a weak unit.   Well at least Peri knows how to gain a level. Elise gets the ol' "irony special".  These guys take their sweet time to approach, something I appreciate greatly because their leader has very scary stats...  But with Camilla's personal skill helping, Niles can... oh dear, that's not a lot. How am I going to deal with you?  Chipping him down and giving the kill to a weakling would be nice, but I've got to dispose of his buddies on the same turn too.  Elise will be guaranteed to block his retalliation so any attempt would be safe...  Camilla is really great for dual strikes because of her personal skill. Positioning her carefully can make taking out groups like this a lot easier!  She got the kill in the end! Unfortunately these kills aren't enough for a level on their own.   Odin Dark shall form a chokepoint to stall a couple of turns. His newfound bulk makes the task a little easier...   Or maybe a lot easier. Had Odin not proc'd defense, a miss against the boss would have gotten him killed by the Archer. I knew the boss was weaker than the other promoted enemies so I didn't bother counting damage to see if Odin would survive... I'm glad it worked out, but let that be a lesson to you! And me.  The end of turn 8 marks the arrival of these guys, Fates's take on the colourful effeminate bandits that have showed up in most games since FE6.   These two are here to capture a dragon for themselves... and I would like to capture them. They're both humans, which makes them eligible for capturing! I'm only doing it for vanity purposes, but even with no capacity to build support levels a Berserker support partner grants +5 str and +3 speed, which makes these two good to get if you want to use them!  ...seems like it might be easier said than done though.  Especially when Mr. Debuff cannot hit them.   Okay screw the capturing plan. Camilla gets danced to weaken them both for the kill...   They wanted to capture a dragon, I wanted to capture them. Nobody got what they wanted!  Defense? Twice in one chapter? Peri I am promoting you to Silas. Silas I am demoting you to Peri.  You embarrassed me by almost causing a restart, die!   Odin gets magic, Azura gets magic. What a magical ending.  Child saved in 10 turns! That surely makes up for all those extradimensional years of parental neglect.   This line always seems to come up when people discuss the many faults of this game's localisation... I'm not entirely sure why, although I'm also not entirely sure what it replaced. I think it's cute!   Anyway, here's the little tyke in non-dragon form, and here's his direct competition. Considering the 4 level difference, he's not... bad? Those stats are certainly okay, although his offenses could use a little work. Definitely very well rounded. I just don't really see why I'd want to use him... I'll post a little analysis later. In all honestly the kid analyses will be very short, mostly just me stating what their stats and class options are. Kid usefulness depends on the parent and I really don't have enough experience to say anything in depth. I don't even have other people's opinions that I've absorbed over the years like I do for all of the first generation! Next time: Cheve? Maybe?
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Oct 15, 2021 21:24
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Huh, I always do that map by flooding the second layer for proper chokepoints. Does make the fliers a little more obnoxious to deal with, I guess.
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Oct 15, 2021 21:58
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the original script for this game is so intensely bland and dry, such that even if the localization isn't accurate, it's more entertaining. kana... i guess exists so you can use dragonstones even if you reclass corrin. idk. i kinda wish if you married your route's furry you could have a dragon-and-beaststone using hybrid class.
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Oct 15, 2021 21:59
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Fates has so much genuinely awful and stupid writing that I'm not even sure why something as inoffensive as a small child saying 'rawr is dragon for I love you' drew so much ire. This chapter isn't too bad as kid paralogues go, it can get a little hairy sometimes if you wait too long to recruit Kana and the enemies can actually start killing them though
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Oct 15, 2021 22:16
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The biggest issue with Kana is that they will end up being compared to Morgan from Awakening who is either a bit of a dork or a whirlwind of chaos and thus more interesting then generic young kid.
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Oct 15, 2021 23:23
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Kana is fine. People were lamenting the poor move and speed of knights and Kana is basically a more mobile knight. Their personal skill means they want to exclusively use dragonstones, and with the right parent they can have a serviceable amount of defense and speed. Speaking of Mercenaries, can anyone other than Silas become one with a Heart Seal? I think he's the only one.
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Oct 15, 2021 23:28
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theshim posted:Huh, I always do that map by flooding the second layer for proper chokepoints. Does make the fliers a little more obnoxious to deal with, I guess. Me too. But I always have 2 archers and make heavy use of dual strikes so the fliers are rarely a problem.
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Oct 15, 2021 23:29
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That direct Kana/Corrin comparison is a direct reason as to why I'm severely unimpressed with child units really. Extra effort, on a different support line entirely, and not even statistically superior.
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Oct 16, 2021 02:15
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I noticed that enemy Lloyd & Llewyn have S Rank axes. Do those carry over if you capture them, or do they reset to some lower base? I caputred a lto of boss enemies for...well collection purposes really, but never paid much attention to their ranks
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Oct 16, 2021 03:13
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Walla posted:Kana is fine. People were lamenting the poor move and speed of knights and Kana is basically a more mobile knight. Their personal skill means they want to exclusively use dragonstones, and with the right parent they can have a serviceable amount of defense and speed. Felicia and Gunter, both of who have... issues. Being Silas' kid, Sophie of course also has it as an option.
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Oct 16, 2021 11:07
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13 Magic at level 17. Still remaining hopeful you'll change my mind on Odin.
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Oct 16, 2021 14:48
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ApplesandOranges posted:Felicia and Gunter, both of who have... issues. Being Silas' kid, Sophie of course also has it as an option. I don't know how I forgot them, especially since I use Bow Knight Felicia. Also Flora. SloppyDoughnuts posted:13 Magic at level 17. Still remaining hopeful you'll change my mind on Odin. Who else at this stage of the game could have soloed the Apothecaries in Chapter 12?
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Oct 16, 2021 15:04
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That was all Nosferatu being super good!
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Oct 16, 2021 15:17
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For all the things people like to bring out to complain about this game's localization, the only one I ever found actually egregiously bad was that one support convo between Saizo and Beruka which got replaced by the "joke" of them spamming "..." at each other.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:54
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SloppyDoughnuts posted:That was all Nosferatu being super good! And the only other unit who could have pulled that off right now is a reclassed Camilla, which would be a waste. Nyx would have been completely obliterated. Odin's lower magic is actually a help here. If it's too high he would potentially not have enough health to survive the second hit, like what almost happened in Chapter 10. It's not just Nosferatu.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:11
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Infinity Gaia posted:For all the things people like to bring out to complain about this game's localization, the only one I ever found actually egregiously bad was that one support convo between Saizo and Beruka which got replaced by the "joke" of them spamming "..." at each other. I disagree. That support rules. Also the conversation it replaces is just a boring cliche'd conversation about assassins and their feelings. The worst line is when Leo tells Elise to "act like the adult you technically are".
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Oct 16, 2021 16:42
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FoolyCharged posted:I will never understand the thoughts of the doofus who decided that the tank unit should be near incapable of being the first unit to reach the fight. I understand even less how nobody changed this over the course of more than a dozen entries in the series. Different games have different approaches to this but "slow moving, intensely durable" is a unit type that can be somewhat difficult to make 'feel right.' It's worth pointing out that, in as much as games tend to take inspiration from real history, this type of unit broadly invokes the general idea of premodern heavy infantry, which were historically the make-or-break element of an army in most contexts (ancient greek armies were at somepoints ONLY heavy infantry, the Macedonians beat them by having better heavy infantry and that became the dominant form of Western military up until the Romans beat all the successor states by having just unbearable strategic sustainability). So why do games often make heavy infantry that sucks? I think its worth looking at games that make it work and then working backwards tbh. Age of Empires I & II - swordsmen centered armies with support are a pretty successful strategy for a variety of factions largely because they scale up like crazy and a lot of the really good units you're using for support are even slower (siege & field artillery). Rise of Nations, my favorite, makes premodern heavy infantry the backbone of "actually achieving objectives" since they're by and large the best option for taking defended positions up until gunpowder, and the counter to premodern heavy infantry are all expensive and vulnerable, so countering heavy infantry means either having more/better heavy infantry or very careful shepherding some precious resources & units. But that's RTS, not turn-based. Battle for Wesnoth I think does a pretty good job on this - the rhythm of a game of Wesnoth tends to involve a skirmish phase where players try to establish a battle line as far forward as they can get away with with relatively disposable units, and the heavier "holding" units hit the front several turns later, at which point the skirmishers transition into supporting or raiding. 40k handles it in a pretty interesting way that is not actually that dissimilar to what happens in RTS - most of the time when you want heavy holding units, you end up with an entire army that suits them - you have some big chunky plague marines that refuse to die and they're backed up by a bunch of plodding artillery that attritions down the enemy, and if you want to make an army that blitzes down the opposition or does a lot of skirmishing you just don't take elite heavy infantry (might take some tarpits to hold backlines but those are generally very cheap and disposable). FFTA had a very interesting take where Paladins could move very fast, but only for defensive reasons - they had an ability that would let them teleport swap with an ally to take a hit (and teleport back after, so not a mobility skill in general, just solving how the mobility problem keeps you from protecting other units). Anyway back to Fire Emblem - I'll admit to being The Fire Emblem Idiot, I just like strategy games and reading people's takes on them. I've played the GBA and NES FE, not any more recent so I may be missing a lot. But the two ways I see other games make this defensive heavy infantry archetype "work" that FE doesn't really enable that well tend to be scaling and army composition. In many games, it tend to be possible to get more HI than other unit types and generally the only way to scale up the total HP/defensive bulk of your army outside of glass cannon. The other style is that HI are not as generally necessary but are part of a package deal of one or more general army archetypes. My experience with FE is that you largely get the units you get, units have a cost equality (not totally same, just that you deploy x units rather than "i can spend the same resources to deploy 3 HI vs 1 archer"), and so the AOE style "40 swordsman has about the same cost as 11 knights" is inapplicable, and the 40k style "the entire army is paced around the slow guys" is also not very viable. The central design ethos of FE, of having full-rear end characters with pretty stable combat functions where they are generally not disposable, is going to put slow units in a tough spot in general and going to make slow frontliners feel particularly bad. Plus the cadence of FE doesn't really favor attrition as a player option - I've always felt like I made pretty good pace on tearing enemies apart, when the slow units hit the front that tends to mean "heavy artillery type units that blast through the current enemy line right-quick." (there are quite a few games I didn't mention because I don't think they succeed at this - as much as I like FFT, units in FFT are simply too mobile and deadly for for blockers to function its more like you have durable skirmishers that try to zone out enemy strikers from getting to your support, and in games that are meant to invoke more modern combat like Infinity and Wargame: Red Dragon the primary defense is "don't get shot, getting shot sucks").
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Oct 16, 2021 18:01
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SloppyDoughnuts posted:I disagree. That support rules. Also the conversation it replaces is just a boring cliche'd conversation about assassins and their feelings. At least it was an actual conversation instead of a stupid joke, even if a cliche one. I mean, this is Fire Emblem, most of the conversations are cliche, that's no reason to cut them!
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Oct 16, 2021 18:30
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Tulip posted:So why do games often make heavy infantry that sucks?
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Oct 16, 2021 19:24
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Tulip posted:Different games have different approaches to this but "slow moving, intensely durable" is a unit type that can be somewhat difficult to make 'feel right.' It's worth pointing out that, in as much as games tend to take inspiration from real history, this type of unit broadly invokes the general idea of premodern heavy infantry, which were historically the make-or-break element of an army in most contexts (ancient greek armies were at somepoints ONLY heavy infantry, the Macedonians beat them by having better heavy infantry and that became the dominant form of Western military up until the Romans beat all the successor states by having just unbearable strategic sustainability). Greek armies always included skirmishers and often light cavalry. For example, Xenophon's 10,000 had a couple thousand peltasts, archers, and unspecified light infantry. During the Peloponnesian War, the Sicilian Expedition's initial wave was (Wikipedia) ~5000 hoplites and ~1500 skirmishers/light infantry. And they clearly perceived that their lack of horses was a problem, because the first reinforcement wave was ~600 cavalry. Their opponents fielded ~5000 hoplites and ~1200 cavalry. The Macedonians had heavy cavalry, which played a key role in their defeat of the Greek city-states (ancient authors credit victory at Crocus Field and Chaeronea to the Macedonian horse). Swordsmen are quite mediocre in Age of Empires 2; they're rarely ever used in competitive play because anything ranged can kite them and anything mounted can just ride away. They'll come into play as a counter to other niche melee units, like eagle warriors or huscarls. Not dissimilar to the problems faced by Fire Emblem knights! If you're slow pushing with siege, and can force engagements (which I do think you've hit on as the ability heavy infantry need to be good in games), the usual partner is not swordsmen but spearmen, who are much cheaper and do better against cavalry, the natural predator of your expensive siege engines. The best solution to the FE Knight Problem is a) give them the same movement as other infantry and b) design maps so that movement is not king. Not every map needs to be a Defend X turns, but I think experimentation with multi-front maps, where you can defend on one side while pushing on the other, would do wonders for knight viability. This is a situation where you would want to deploy a unit with less killing power but who can survive on their own longer. Another way to give value to knights is kinda what happens on 3H Maddening, where certain enemies (cough pegasus knights cough) have enough attack and speed to double and kill even otherwise durable physical units, and enough movement to initiate combat. Then there is a need for something with comically high amounts of defense to lure them out.
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Oct 16, 2021 19:50
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 I wonder if Odin's meant to be referring to anyone specific from Awakening here, or if this is just a regular Odinism? He'll say this for any ore he finds.  My unique ore collection is steadily growing. For some reason I don't like that the "clear"-coloured gems are the ones you use for swords - swords should be red!        A lot of supports this time around. In Kana's C support with his father there's always a line where he asks if there's anything special he could do for Corrin and the father will respond with something entirely unique. Silas's unique thing is taking Corrin out for trips to make up for all her years of being isolated.   Finally, the support I've been waiting for! This means I can reclass Niles into an Archer and bench Mozu so she stops taking up one of my deployment slots. ...child paralogues becoming available immediately after an S support was fine in Awakening because the kids come from the future and all, but in Fates I guess the mother just takes a casual nine month holiday in the deeprealms between chapters and then leaves their newborn child to rapidly age up all alone? Honestly I just think of the whole child thing in the same way I think of the spotpass DLC paralogues in Awakening, or the dead villains you can recruit in the creature campaign in Sacred Stones - they're fun "what-ifs" that aren't actually canon.  There's only one Partner Seal available to buy until you clear Chapter 13. I think some child paralogues give addition seals as rewards, but I haven't memorised which ones.  Niles will retain his extra movement and lockpicking ability he had as an Outlaw even after reclassing. He's not using his magic, the loss of speed doesn't mean much since he's already fast, and his resistance is also still pretty good. An Archer Niles with Locktouch and Move + 1 really is just better than an Outlaw Niles.  He also gets a snazzy little outfit that might get him killed by his own army by mistake. The Archer and Sniper outfits in this game look so cozy, I'd love to wear one in the winter.          Here are everybody's stats. Sometimes I wonder if I need to post stats in between every single chapter, but I may as well. I kind of miss the stat lists you got in the GBA games that showed all your army's stats on a single screen, or at least showed multiple units at a time.  Kana Nohr Noble (HS: Samurai (Corrin), Cavalier (Silas) A+ Support Classes: Seigbert (Cavalier), Percy (Wyvern) Personal Skill: Draconic Heir (Restore 15% of max HP at end of turn when equipped with a Dragonstone) Growths (With Default Class) [Base Growths] HP: 35% (50) [30] STR: 40% (55) [35] MAG: 17.5% (27.5) [30] SKL: 45% (55) [40] SPD: 42.5% (52.5) [45] LCK: 42.5% (52.5) [45] DEF: 32.5% (42.5) [25] RES: 25% (30) [25] So, Kana! Kana is like Corrin but smaller and with worse stats and availability. And no Yato. Kana's default growths are straight up worse than those of a theoretical Corrin with no boon or bane, literally either equal or worse in every stat. Certainly no Morgan... Because of how child growths are calculated in Fates (the variable parent and the child's "base" growths averaged together), the boon or bane of your Corrin won't actually affect the growths of your Kana. They will affect their stat caps, but it'll be a while before they hit those. This can be both good and bad. Good in that you can potentially make a physical Corrin with no magic and then still have a Kana with good magic (or the other way around), bad in that it makes it harder to minmax a super Kana exactly how you want them. In fact the only way you can really "minmax" a Kana is with their stat caps - marry a +str Corrin and Charlotte to get a Kana with a strength stat cap modifier of 8 for example. Not really anything that matters unless you're messing around with online battles or whatever. Kana's strength growth might be worse than a default Corrin's, but their magic growth is the same. They also get a unique ability that allows them to restore health when equipped with a Dragonstone. Without any cool sword to use like Corrin gets, it makes the most sense to build Kana as a magical Dragonstone unit if you want to make the most of their unique utility. By the time you actually recruit Kana, Dragonstones won't be as effective as the OHKO tool they could be for +mag Corrins that they could be in the earlygame, but they're still pretty good for their defensive utility. Nohr Noble is still a pretty good class at the end of the day, so Kana's not too bad. They get more EXP from combat, and they can debuff foes with Draconic Hex once they hit level 5 promoted. Send Kana right into a hoard of units, tank them all as a dragon, and leave them debuffed to be harvested by the rest of your units. Pretty good! Unfortunately I married my Corrin to a physical unit so Kana's just kind of a worse Corrin. He'd definitely do alright if I trained him. His growths are fine, he'd make a perfectly functional physical unit... He's just not very interesting. No pros & cons because I really don't have much to say. My Rating: Please do not make your 12 year old son fight in a war
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Oct 16, 2021 21:25
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SloppyDoughnuts posted:I disagree. That support rules. Also the conversation it replaces is just a boring cliche'd conversation about assassins and their feelings. the support rules until the b-support picks up as if the c-support were normal
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Oct 16, 2021 21:29
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Coming in a bit late to the heavy armor unit discussion maybe, but I think Heroes (the mobile game) did a decent job. I’m not a complete stat nerd, so I may not have this 100%, but it’s my understanding that in heroes you don’t have quite the problem with equally durable more mobile units, because armors have more stat points to work with - Heroes doesn’t have variable stats, units always turn out the same (save for a boon/bane), but dancers, fliers, etc get a penalty to their “total”, so in conjunction with dumping speed and relying on skills/weapons to prevent doubles, armor units can be pretty powerful comparatively. There are also a bunch of skills to prevent doubling and/or ensure your own, many of which are only available to armors. There are also some abilities that conditionally let armors move at infantry speed (when at full health, when starting the turn next to another armor, etc) and a few skills that let them warp to allies. And finally, every unit can have an “assist” skill which can let them move other units around and/or move themself around allies - if I want an armor at the front I can daisy chain them over, or I can just use a unit that isn’t getting anything else done that turn to move them a bit closer. In conjunction with small maps, armor units are pretty useful in heroes, and they’ve carried me on many a map.
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Oct 17, 2021 00:44
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Infinity Gaia posted:At least it was an actual conversation instead of a stupid joke, even if a cliche one. I mean, this is Fire Emblem, most of the conversations are cliche, that's no reason to cut them! Uh, no, I would actually take a bad joke 1000% of the time over "hey player, it's not technically pedophilia *wink wink nudge nudge*" Shoot, I would take an empty text field over that.
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Oct 17, 2021 01:51
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