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SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007
Hair Elf

Gromit posted:

I want to fit a vise to my workbench. However, while 3 of the 4 mounting holes are fine, the fourth is mostly above one of the bench legs. If I move it further across to clear the leg, then the jaws won't clear the benchtop if I have a workpiece in them.
Any suggestions on how to mount this? I could put a big screw into that last hole and bolt the other three through, or mount the vice to a steel plate somehow that is then itself bolted into the bench further out?



I want to be able to use the vise from either edge of the corner, so it really needs to be in this location. I mean, maybe that's not too big a deal, but I'd hate to miss out on that extra bit of versatility if I can avoid it.

I think I would go with your first idea and use a big lag screw through the table top and into the leg. That combined with the 3 other bolts should hold it really well.

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Gromit
Aug 15, 2000

I am an oppressed White Male, Asian women wont serve me! Save me Campbell Newman!!!!!!!
Thanks. That option is certainly more doable with the tools and ability I have at hand than some sort of steel plate adapter.

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



Johnny Truant posted:

nah you have a lot of reusable tools. orange pruning shears, for example. dunno if those're Caftsman!

Gahhh, tmi, Tim.

Rakeris
Jul 20, 2014

lil poopendorfer posted:

yah using conventional stuff is big no no, surgical tools are purpose designed. Plus they’re all tracked and registered so if there’s problem it’ll trigger further investigations etc

Autopsies are different, I would assume the tools are disposed of instead of sterilized & autoclaved but after seeing how hospitals handled PPE w COVID, I’m guessing they re-use them

Part of the reason orthopods make so much is from royalties they collect from the medical hardware they invent (and then use exclusively, collecting licensing fees from their own surgeries on top of usual compensation)

Wierd, I've sat though a number of surgeries and seen all sorts of random rear end tools that often look like they came from the local home depot, (seen more than one DeWalt 18v) makes me wonder if they are specially made or if they were just random poo poo off the shelf.

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007
Hair Elf

Rakeris posted:

Wierd, I've sat though a number of surgeries and seen all sorts of random rear end tools that often look like they came from the local home depot, (seen more than one DeWalt 18v) makes me wonder if they are specially made or if they were just random poo poo off the shelf.

*I immediately wake up from anesthesia and grab the surgeons hand holding the Dewalt Flexvolt Bone Scraper*

YOU GOTTA GET YOURSELF THE NEW MILWAUKEE M18 FUEL HEART CATHEDAR IT'S 13% MORE EFFICIENT AND BRUSHLESS AND

*Dies*

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008




SpartanIvy posted:

*I immediately wake up from anesthesia and grab the surgeons hand holding the Dewalt Flexvolt Bone Scraper*

YOU GOTTA GET YOURSELF THE NEW MILWAUKEE M18 FUEL HEART CATHEDAR IT'S 13% MORE EFFICIENT AND BRUSHLESS AND

*Dies*

"Oh actually doctor, I'm team green. Get that Makita poo poo out of any OR I'm in!"

Slugworth
Feb 18, 2001

If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!

Rakeris posted:

Wierd, I've sat though a number of surgeries and seen all sorts of random rear end tools that often look like they came from the local home depot, (seen more than one DeWalt 18v) makes me wonder if they are specially made or if they were just random poo poo off the shelf.
I'm honestly shocked if you're talking about human medicine. If you're talking vetmed, much less shocked, but still slightly. I worked at one clinic that used hobby saw blades as bone saws (one time use only, and cleaned and autoclaved first, but that metal sure as poo poo wasn't surgical grade steel), but otherwise even in small gp hospitals, we still sprung for the fancy surgical versions of drills and oscillating tools. I'd like to imagine the surgeons working on me are using better equipment than a Yorkie undergoing trochleoplasty.

Necropsy tools though, yeah, anything goes there.

Rakeris
Jul 20, 2014

Slugworth posted:

I'm honestly shocked if you're talking about human medicine. If you're talking vetmed, much less shocked, but still slightly. I worked at one clinic that used hobby saw blades as bone saws (one time use only, and cleaned and autoclaved first, but that metal sure as poo poo wasn't surgical grade steel), but otherwise even in small gp hospitals, we still sprung for the fancy surgical versions of drills and oscillating tools. I'd like to imagine the surgeons working on me are using better equipment than a Yorkie undergoing trochleoplasty.

Necropsy tools though, yeah, anything goes there.

Yeah it was human, I used to work as a correctional officer, and one of us had to be in the room for any surgeries just in case type thing. I always liked doing it, was pretty cool got to see a lot of poo poo I would never have been able to otherwise.

It's been a handful of years now and was in small Midwest hospitals for the most part. But the ones I remember off hand with random rear end looking tools were Ortho stuff, multiple plates in dudes leg, and some hip thing, and jaw wiring (wouldn't recommend, probably one of the hardest to watch outside of eye stuff).

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


I'm putting all new baseboard in my basement, so am going to be needing to paint a bunch of the stuff. Also a few upstairs rooms. Any recommendations on a sprayer?

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



Bad Munki posted:

I'm putting all new baseboard in my basement, so am going to be needing to paint a bunch of the stuff. Also a few upstairs rooms. Any recommendations on a sprayer?

If it's a one shot never going to need a sprayer again, you could use a roller and pan with sawhorses. If you anticipate paint jobs in the future, like say the house exterior, I like my Graco airless.

Hexigrammus
May 22, 2006

Cheech Wizard stories are clean, wholesome, reflective truths that go great with the marijuana munchies and a blow job.

Slugworth posted:

I'm honestly shocked if you're talking about human medicine. If you're talking vetmed, much less shocked, but still slightly. I worked at one clinic that used hobby saw blades as bone saws (one time use only, and cleaned and autoclaved first, but that metal sure as poo poo wasn't surgical grade steel), but otherwise even in small gp hospitals, we still sprung for the fancy surgical versions of drills and oscillating tools. I'd like to imagine the surgeons working on me are using better equipment than a Yorkie undergoing trochleoplasty.

Necropsy tools though, yeah, anything goes there.

I'll have to ask my friend who does the whale necropsies what brand of chainsaw she uses.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Mr. Mambold posted:

If it's a one shot never going to need a sprayer again, you could use a roller and pan with sawhorses. If you anticipate paint jobs in the future, like say the house exterior, I like my Graco airless.

Yeah, to be clear, this isn't the first time I've had this need, just the first time I've had a single job big enough to warrant it in my mind. Also even with a high quality slow-curing self-leveling paint, the finish will never quite compare when using any sort of direct applicator like a brush or roller.

e: Looks like I'll be picking up 320' of baseboard for this phase of the project, and will also be painting four doors and all their trim and casing as well. Oh and trimming out an 8' sliding door as well. I also do a fair amount of wood working and have wanted to engage in spray finishes for a while. It's kind of a no brainer imo, just needed the right project to push me over the edge.

Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Oct 16, 2021

Sedgr
Sep 16, 2007

Neat!

Hexigrammus posted:

I'll have to ask my friend who does the whale necropsies what brand of chainsaw she uses.

De-Whale-t

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008




Sedgr posted:

De-Whale-t

:perfect:

Went to HD today just to buy some finer grit sandpaper, came out with an impact driver cause it was my colour and 50% off :yum:

more falafel please
Feb 26, 2005

forums poster

Got a new-in-box Ridgid belt/spindle sander for $120 from a friend who's trying to get rid of a bunch of their dad's stuff after he passed. No idea how long it had been sitting there.

The only thing that was weird is that most of the bottom of the tool (and sneaking up the sides a little bit) there was a bunch of machine oil. Like, it was pooled in the bag the tool was packaged in. I just wiped it off with shop rags. I'm assuming that was just there to protect parts from rusting/etc in transit, right? I don't need to worry that the motor isn't properly lubricated because all the motor juice came out after a couple years of sitting in a garage? I've just never seen that much oil on a tool before, especially one that's painted stamped steel for the top and plastic for the body. It runs fine, for what it's worth.

Gromit
Aug 15, 2000

I am an oppressed White Male, Asian women wont serve me! Save me Campbell Newman!!!!!!!

SpartanIvy posted:

I think I would go with your first idea and use a big lag screw through the table top and into the leg. That combined with the 3 other bolts should hold it really well.

I bought some long coach screws (as they are known here) to put through that last hole but I couldn't get it driven all the way in (I think there's some metal in there it's hitting) so I ended up using a smaller decking screw I had in the drawer and it's solid as a rock.
Now to slowly build up my tool collection...

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011

Running no point.

Rakeris posted:

random rear end looking tools were Ortho stuff, multiple plates in dudes leg, and some hip thing,

Pretty interesting that this still goes on, like I mentioned it is a pretty bad idea. Using random saws or whatever is probably OK but metal/metal is not good for the patient.

Unrelated, I have one of these on the way to me across the Atlantic because they are apparently unheard of here. EBay shipping that includes customs clearance is amazing - with normal shopping the customs fuckheads charge 34 CHF for every package plus duty but eBay just works.

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produ...ters/48-03-4410

knox_harrington fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Oct 17, 2021

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Bad Munki posted:

Yeah, to be clear, this isn't the first time I've had this need, just the first time I've had a single job big enough to warrant it in my mind. Also even with a high quality slow-curing self-leveling paint, the finish will never quite compare when using any sort of direct applicator like a brush or roller.

e: Looks like I'll be picking up 320' of baseboard for this phase of the project, and will also be painting four doors and all their trim and casing as well. Oh and trimming out an 8' sliding door as well. I also do a fair amount of wood working and have wanted to engage in spray finishes for a while. It's kind of a no brainer imo, just needed the right project to push me over the edge.
Unfortunately sprayers that are ideal for paint are not ideal for clear finishes like lacquer and vice-versa. Paint is very thick and heavy and viscous with a whole lot of solids, while lacquer is fairly thin and low solids and needs to be very finely atomized to lay down a nice finish. The guns I've used that claim to spray paint and lacquer (Earlex, mostly) don't do either very well. They didn't have the oomph to spray paint without thinning it down a ton and left alot of orange peel on a lacquer finish, and don't have much control over the spray pattern. In addition, using water based and solvent based problems in the same gun can cause problems without very very thorough cleaning and paint pigment seems to be about impossible to completely clean out of a gun.

If you have a decent sized air compressor, a pneumatic gun is definitely the way to go for clear woodworking kind of finishes, and decent pneumatic guns are not super expensive. I don't know much about sprayers for real paint, but Graco definitely seems to be the most common among tradespeople.

E:

more falafel please posted:

Got a new-in-box Ridgid belt/spindle sander for $120 from a friend who's trying to get rid of a bunch of their dad's stuff after he passed. No idea how long it had been sitting there.

The only thing that was weird is that most of the bottom of the tool (and sneaking up the sides a little bit) there was a bunch of machine oil. Like, it was pooled in the bag the tool was packaged in. I just wiped it off with shop rags. I'm assuming that was just there to protect parts from rusting/etc in transit, right? I don't need to worry that the motor isn't properly lubricated because all the motor juice came out after a couple years of sitting in a garage? I've just never seen that much oil on a tool before, especially one that's painted stamped steel for the top and plastic for the body. It runs fine, for what it's worth.
Check the manual but if the spindle oscillates up and down it may run in an oil bath and that may be all the oil from it leaking out.

Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Oct 17, 2021

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

Unfortunately sprayers that are ideal for paint are not ideal for clear finishes like lacquer and vice-versa. Paint is very thick and heavy and viscous with a whole lot of solids, while lacquer is fairly thin and low solids and needs to be very finely atomized to lay down a nice finish. The guns I've used that claim to spray paint and lacquer (Earlex, mostly) don't do either very well. They didn't have the oomph to spray paint without thinning it down a ton and left alot of orange peel on a lacquer finish, and don't have much control over the spray pattern. In addition, using water based and solvent based problems in the same gun can cause problems without very very thorough cleaning and paint pigment seems to be about impossible to completely clean out of a gun.

If you have a decent sized air compressor, a pneumatic gun is definitely the way to go for clear woodworking kind of finishes, and decent pneumatic guns are not super expensive. I don't know much about sprayers for real paint, but Graco definitely seems to be the most common among tradespeople.

Good to know, thanks for the info. I was looking at airless vs hvlp vs pneumatic and wasn’t really making great headway in figuring out what I need, this is probably why.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Bad Munki posted:

Good to know, thanks for the info. I was looking at airless vs hvlp vs pneumatic and wasn’t really making great headway in figuring out what I need, this is probably why.
In my mind, airless=house paint, pneumatic=lacquer, turbine is the worst of both worlds unless you get a $1500+ rig. The big advantage of turbine setups in my mind is portability-you can spray clear finishes inside a house without dragging along your 40gal air compressor. Unless you need to do that often, you can get a decent pneumatic gun and nice sized compressor (that has a ton of uses besides spraying) for much less than a turbine rig that works well would cost.

The basic Earlex kit is...okay for spraying clear. The big disadvantage is that the gun has very little adjustment, so it always sprays a big wide pattern at full blast. The big vacuum hose is pretty cumbersome too vs. a 1/4" air line, especially for spraying inside cabinets etc. Even a pretty basic pneumatic gun will let you adjust fan width, air pressure in, and liquid volume out-all the Earlex gun can adjust is liquid volume out, which makes it pretty hard to get a nice coat and basically impossible to do any kind of toning or shading with. You absolutely can get a nice finish off an Earlex, it's just going to take alot more sanding between coats to get rid of the orange peel, at least IME with lacquer. It might level out better with something slower drying like poly. If they made a more adjustable gun I would like it much more.

You can also get HVLP guns that are pneumatic. They atomize better at lower pressure so there is less overspray. One sales rep I talked to described most low/mid range pneumatic guns marketed as HVLP as actually Low Volume Low Pressure-they achieve less overspray/wasted finish by basically just shooting less finish out of the gun. Maybe you have to take slower passes, but it achieves the same goal of less overspray. My gun has one air cap that is HVLP and one that isn't, but if I turn the pressure up on the HVLP cap it shoots about the same as the non-HVLP cap. Actually being LVLP means they eat less air and you can get away with a smaller compressor.

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


Johnny Truant posted:

:perfect:

Went to HD today just to buy some finer grit sandpaper, came out with an impact driver cause it was my colour and 50% off :yum:
I know what you mean, but in my dreams you mean "it was the perfect shade of turquoise to set off my eyes."

more falafel please
Feb 26, 2005

forums poster

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:


E:

Check the manual but if the spindle oscillates up and down it may run in an oil bath and that may be all the oil from it leaking out.

The only thing the manual says is:

quote:

Lubrication
All bearings in tool are self-lubricating.
They require no further lubrication

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

In my mind, airless=house paint, pneumatic=lacquer, turbine is the worst of both worlds unless you get a $1500+ rig. The big advantage of turbine setups in my mind is portability-you can spray clear finishes inside a house without dragging along your 40gal air compressor. Unless you need to do that often, you can get a decent pneumatic gun and nice sized compressor (that has a ton of uses besides spraying) for much less than a turbine rig that works well would cost.

The basic Earlex kit is...okay for spraying clear. The big disadvantage is that the gun has very little adjustment, so it always sprays a big wide pattern at full blast. The big vacuum hose is pretty cumbersome too vs. a 1/4" air line, especially for spraying inside cabinets etc. Even a pretty basic pneumatic gun will let you adjust fan width, air pressure in, and liquid volume out-all the Earlex gun can adjust is liquid volume out, which makes it pretty hard to get a nice coat and basically impossible to do any kind of toning or shading with. You absolutely can get a nice finish off an Earlex, it's just going to take alot more sanding between coats to get rid of the orange peel, at least IME with lacquer. It might level out better with something slower drying like poly. If they made a more adjustable gun I would like it much more.

You can also get HVLP guns that are pneumatic. They atomize better at lower pressure so there is less overspray. One sales rep I talked to described most low/mid range pneumatic guns marketed as HVLP as actually Low Volume Low Pressure-they achieve less overspray/wasted finish by basically just shooting less finish out of the gun. Maybe you have to take slower passes, but it achieves the same goal of less overspray. My gun has one air cap that is HVLP and one that isn't, but if I turn the pressure up on the HVLP cap it shoots about the same as the non-HVLP cap. Actually being LVLP means they eat less air and you can get away with a smaller compressor.

I gotta disagree with this direction. Airless has tips for every viscosity, and the gun is adjustable somewhat. I did my house exterior with the regular tip, I've done lacquer with the smaller tip. That's what house painters all have used ever since the thing was invented. And the airless I got was < $500 reconditioned, free shipping on ebay. Needless to say, it paid for itself 3 times over on the one job. Magnum Pro x9 iirc, which may be an obsolete (totally does not matter) model now.

320 lineal foot of base laid out on sawhorses is a good way to get your feet wet (haha not literally). Hit em first with primer, in oh say 10 minutes, let dry, sand then coat next day with paint. Really a month ago when it was still hot outdoors would have been ideal.

There are extension add-on wands, even extension rollers for doing walls with latex. Available at your local paint store or online. They've been at this for a while, so there'll be the same tutorials on youtube as they typically include on a DVD (haha hard media amirite) with the rig.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


I've never actually tried to use an airless for lacquer, but have been told it gives alot more bounceback/overspray because of the higher pressure. Listen to Mambold who actually has hands-on experience with it, not me!

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



For small projects, yeah use those other methods you mentioned like HPLV or a cup gun just because you need to prime a quart or 2 into the airless line before you do a thing. And a short line is 25'. Typical is 50'. And yeah, there is overspray like with any spray type method. Weather matters just like with any material. The tip adjusts for either a vertical or horizontal spray pattern- or for Bad Munki, I guess a diagonal pattern. Pressure/volume is adjustable, and that's a thing you need to dial in for each job.

But, for like a home interior or an array of doors even or kitchen doors, and definitely anything exterior (weather permitting) airless is the way to fly. Any friggin material. No air needed, as advertised, just really high pressure in the pump and lines. So you deffo don't spray human flesh, and you bleed the lines after you're done, or taking a break. You can leave material in the lines overnight or even a few days if you need to go back as long as you clean the tip each time you're done.
With really good quality exterior paint, I'll thin it a bit for ease of flow. No big deal. It's a bit of pita to cleanup, so you want to do all your priming or all your painting in one go without switching. And most of your time and labor is typically going to be setup and masking, but when you're set to go, buddy you sure can go.

That's my mile high Ted talk overview

lil poopendorfer
Nov 13, 2014

by the sex ghost

Rakeris posted:

Wierd, I've sat though a number of surgeries and seen all sorts of random rear end tools that often look like they came from the local home depot, (seen more than one DeWalt 18v) makes me wonder if they are specially made or if they were just random poo poo off the shelf.

I have no good answer, aside from that doesn’t sound ideal

Like how would they possible clean the air vents and all that

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005




lil poopendorfer posted:

I have no good answer, aside from that doesn’t sound ideal

Like how would they possible clean the air vents and all that

I guess you could submerge it in an alcohol bath. Due to the fire risk, I doubt they actually do this. I'm just saying a guy could do that if he wanted to.

mds2
Apr 8, 2004


Australia: 131114
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US: 1-800-273-8255
I've got a $25 off coupon for Grizzly Tools for online purchases over $125 if anyone wants it. Its good until the end of the month. First to PM me can have the code.

TheBeardedCrazy
Nov 23, 2004
Beer Baron


Anyone have a recommendation for a quality robot vacuum? My wife wants to just buy some random roomba but I wanted to see if anyone had one they liked here first

That Works
Jul 22, 2006

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy


TheBeardedCrazy posted:

Anyone have a recommendation for a quality robot vacuum? My wife wants to just buy some random roomba but I wanted to see if anyone had one they liked here first

We have a Roomba 890 that has a HEPA filter. It's been running every day now for 2 years. Great if you have cats or dogs especially. Got it on a 33% off sale. Bit noisy is my only big complaint.

Literally A Person
Jan 1, 1970

Smugworth Wuz Here

TheBeardedCrazy posted:

Anyone have a recommendation for a quality robot vacuum? My wife wants to just buy some random roomba but I wanted to see if anyone had one they liked here first

*shakes you buy the shoulders*

MAKITA MAKES AN 18V ROBOVAC

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


That Works posted:

We have a Roomba 890 that has a HEPA filter. It's been running every day now for 2 years. Great if you have cats or dogs especially. Got it on a 33% off sale. Bit noisy is my only big complaint.

if you have smarthome stuff, you can set a routine to start roomba once you leave the house. i do this on the regular and it rules

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Literally A Ghost posted:

*shakes you buy the shoulders*

MAKITA MAKES AN 18V ROBOVAC

I’m interested

Would it be suitable for a shop for after hours tidy up or is this more a house kind of thing?

wandler20
Nov 13, 2002

How many Championships?

TheBeardedCrazy posted:

Anyone have a recommendation for a quality robot vacuum? My wife wants to just buy some random roomba but I wanted to see if anyone had one they liked here first

I have the self emptying Shark one and it's pretty good. I also have a regular Shark one but the self emptying is nice because you only have to empty the bin about once a month.

powderific
May 13, 2004

Grimey Drawer
I’ve had a few roombas over the years and they’ve all been pretty good. One big nice thing is they’re fairly serviceable for what they are and you can get spare parts and whatnot.

TheBeardedCrazy
Nov 23, 2004
Beer Baron


Literally A Ghost posted:

*shakes you buy the shoulders*

MAKITA MAKES AN 18V ROBOVAC

Haha I'm trying to convince myself to save some money because I just spent a bunch of money moving but that was my gut instinct.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

TheBeardedCrazy posted:

Anyone have a recommendation for a quality robot vacuum? My wife wants to just buy some random roomba but I wanted to see if anyone had one they liked here first

Depends on what you want and how much you want to spend.

Roborock makes the best bang for your buck units. LIDAR scanning, multi floor mapping, all the good stuff. The S4 Max runs about $320 on sale.

Roomba still doesn’t have a LIDAR robot but they use cameras and object detection poo poo. They are some of the best built and most repairable units but it will cost you for the privilege.

I’ve had the cheap Roomba bump and run and beta tested the high end one with the self empty canister. The high end was great but it was also $700 dollars. I ended up buying the Roborock S4 Max for half the cost and it’s been great.

Vacuum Wars on YouTube is great and just did a roundup video two weeks ago

https://youtu.be/lRZLcft2PBc

TheBeardedCrazy
Nov 23, 2004
Beer Baron


FCKGW posted:

Depends on what you want and how much you want to spend.

Roborock makes the best bang for your buck units. LIDAR scanning, multi floor mapping, all the good stuff. The S4 Max runs about $320 on sale.

Roomba still doesn’t have a LIDAR robot but they use cameras and object detection poo poo. They are some of the best built and most repairable units but it will cost you for the privilege.

I’ve had the cheap Roomba bump and run and beta tested the high end one with the self empty canister. The high end was great but it was also $700 dollars. I ended up buying the Roborock S4 Max for half the cost and it’s been great.

Vacuum Wars on YouTube is great and just did a roundup video two weeks ago

https://youtu.be/lRZLcft2PBc

Thanks a lot, I'll check this out, it'll help me avoid spending $1500 on a makita robot and batteries

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Ba

By

Sharkytm doot doo do doot do doo


Fallen Rib
As an avid robo vac user: get the auto empty bin. We have a Shark auto empty (the older one without the floor sensor maybe the AE101?), a Roomba i7+, and 3 dumb cheap iLife V3s'. The Shark takes forever to build a map but it's awesome and quiet. The Roomba maps faster, but it's loud and uses bags. The iLifes are perfect for kitty litter, cat hair, and leaves and garage stuff.

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Rakeris
Jul 20, 2014

I just felt that I should admit I didn't believe in the last thread title, I was wrong: Claps definitely gently caress, and I've been wrong I need to repent for my sins.

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