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 Even Godbert, the man on charge of making cards, doesn’t know what the deal is with the Shadowbringers cards I think the WoL might just be making their own
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Oct 16, 2021 12:59
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g'raha taught everyone in norvrandt triple triad and they started making cards there because before that all they had to play was high or low
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Oct 16, 2021 13:32
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I always saw it as similar to him introducing a single monetary standard and tomestones: it's ultimately an exercise in cultural unity. Introducing Triple Triad creates another way for the Crystarium to subtly shape the First's culture and a way for people in the First to share experiences
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Oct 16, 2021 19:16
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Games are also a good way to try and get people to ignore the grim specter of death hanging over their head
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Oct 16, 2021 19:25
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Blockhouse posted:Games are also a good way to try and get people to ignore the grim specter of death hanging over their head hahahaha can't relate to that
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Oct 16, 2021 19:28
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Blockhouse posted:Games are also a good way to try and get people to ignore the grim specter of death hanging over their head Sometimes I get so angry playing Smash that I wish for death
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Oct 16, 2021 19:31
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The idea that G’raha Tia helped make the TT cards doesn’t track with the Ardbert/Elidibus/Hades cards. He didn’t know about those people except Ardbert, who was persona non grata. You know who did know about all those folks? Who has shown an incredible proficiency in all things crafting? We make our own bullshit Triple Triad cards is what I’m saying
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Oct 16, 2021 22:32
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petcarcharodon posted:g'raha taught everyone in norvrandt triple triad and they started making cards there because before that all they had to play was high or low There's a guard in Fort Job who is in love with Lyna and he mentions that Thancred taught him how to play as a way to break the ice.
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Oct 16, 2021 22:33
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Triple Triad is a fever dream of the Warrior of Light. The Triple Triad battle Hall is the Gold Saucer's broom closet. The triple triad vendor is just humoring a clearly deranged individual handing in blank slips of paper. Every Triple Triad match is just you making card noises with your lips until the person you are begging gives in and gives you a piecce of paper.
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Oct 17, 2021 00:01
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Triple Triad is the third secret eldest primal
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Oct 17, 2021 02:04
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So today I was doing the lv 63 AST quest and while I was up in the Central Highlands near Stone Vigil, I’d thought I’d take a little detour. Turns out, sometimes when you visit Haurchefant’s grave, Francel will show up to pray and thank you for visiting him. 
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Oct 17, 2021 03:57
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You know the most recent of Sanguinia's newbie journal has be thinking, was there ever a point in which a group violently rises up against their own government and has it go well and be portrayed positively? There's a bunch of throwing off the oppression of foreign governments, like 4 provinces rebel against the Empire and we help them, but every time there's an attempted rebellion by Ul'dahns against Ul'dah or Ishgardians against Ishgard it is portrayed, at best, as a misguided attempt that will cause more problems than it solves and at worst it's outright being manipulated by those in power. Like there's at least two or three attempt rebellions by the Ala Mhigan refugees and those are all bad for one reason or another, F'lhammin and friends tried to start a revolution but gave up after accidentally killing Minfillia's dad, the heretics from Ishgard are portrayed as equally bad as the Church and Hilda's proto-revolution doesn't do much, Ala Mhigo's original attempt at a revolution was manipulated by the Garleans, I've heard bad things about the samurai job story...
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Oct 17, 2021 05:35
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Ala Mhigo’s revolution wasn’t manipulated by the Garleans iirc as much as the Garleans swooped in afterwards and rolled over the nation that just had a civil war. Had Garlamald not done an imperialism it would have been fully positive I wouldn’t particularly call the heretics in Ishgard revolutionaries, they’re more fanatics in my view.
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Oct 17, 2021 05:42
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Are we not counting the dissolution of the church's power in Ishgard a revolution? It's definitely a coup of some kind if nothing else. The Ala Mhigan refugee plots are all aimed at the Garleans, so that's still throwing out an occupying force. The original resistance against King Theodoric had direct continuity to the resistance you help in Stormblood and I don't think we ever actually know that the Garleans manipulated that so much as they just saw an opening and took it? e: oh right Ishgard is a republic now with a parliament that absolutely counts as a revolution
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Oct 17, 2021 05:45
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Blockhouse posted:Are we not counting the dissolution of the church's power in Ishgard a revolution? It's definitely a coup of some kind if nothing else. There wasn’t a revolution, the Church just kind of imploded because the pope’s machinations went spectacularly wrong. A government changing isn’t necessarily a revolution
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Oct 17, 2021 05:52
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Blockhouse posted:Are we not counting the dissolution of the church's power in Ishgard a revolution? It's definitely a coup of some kind if nothing else. There's suggestion that the Garleans did indeed help the Ala Mihgan revolution, but it wasn't ever directly so much as maybe setting up infiltrators and resource suppliers. In either case the revolution was not a Garlean plot, them swooping in afterwards was good information warfare and such basically, they were watching for an opportunity (and likely would've attacked regardless of whether the winners were the rebellion or the king's loyalists).
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Oct 17, 2021 05:55
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Hellioning posted:I've heard bad things about the samurai job story... The game is hypocritical yes. It's pretty funny doing the Stormblood MSQ patches where you're helping Ala Mhigo rebuild and Godbert - portrayed as a clever and successful businessman - explicitly tells you "no, don't get a loan from Ul'dah, or else Ala Mhigo's wealth will be sucked out and it will become a vassal state to other countries". And then you do the Kurenai customs deliveries where the Sui-no-Sato elder says the exact same thing Godbert did ("no, we really need to restrict our dealings with Hingashi or else our wealth is going to be sucked out and we will become a vassal state"), but he's framed as being in the wrong and as a closed minded, out of touch old geezer who needs to shut up and get with the times. Also funny how Stormblood villainizes Fordola for killing her own countrymen attempting to blow the WoL up, but when Hien flooded his kingdom's capital city nobody and drowns hundreds of bystanders he doesn't get called out either. Or how in ARR and HW, people who want to go to war with Garlemald are treated as warmongers and should be stopped, but then from Stormblood marching on Garlemald is treated as the righteous thing to do and people who want to hold back are treated as incapable of doing what needs to be done. And so on. Moofia Boss Val fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Oct 17, 2021 |
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Oct 17, 2021 05:57
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You literally rescue the innocent bystanders before the flooding happens???quote:YUGIRI Also there's a pretty huge difference between how the Samurai job quest villain is portrayed compared to, for instance, the Ala Mhigan Resistance. He's not the least bit concerned about building anything after. He wants to tear down the government and replace it with a return to the Warring States era.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:00
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Blockhouse posted:Are we not counting the dissolution of the church's power in Ishgard a revolution? It's definitely a coup of some kind if nothing else. I do suppose there's some fighting between Ishgardians when the pope captures Aymeric and we go to rescue him, but most of the actual fighting is done by us for non-government related reasons. Sure, they end up as a republic, but they're not the ones to depose the archbishop, they just decided not to adopt a new one. Not all of the Ala Mhigan refugee plots are aimed at the Garleans, the 2.2-2.3 one is set up by Tedeleji Adeleji and it's squarely against Uldah itself.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:01
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Hellioning posted:I've heard bad things about the samurai job story... The Samurai job story (specifically 60-70, 50-60 doesn't really have an antagonist) is interesting, because it's essentially a single guy refusing to learn from history. The antagonist is attempting to solve the inherent issues in Hingan society by basically just burning it down and bringing in pure 'rule by the strongest'. Which is what actually brought on a pretty dark time in Japan's history (which one exactly I'm not well-versed enough to say myself, I've just heard it; I want to say the Warring States, but that might just be because I remember that period existing), for reasons that are actually brought up in-story, in a way that suggests Hingashi might've dealt with this before. Because not all plans for revolution are actually good ideas. I think the game is just generally aware that... well, revolutions don't always go off without a hitch. Actually they have a pretty high failure rate. It's just usually worth the risk. We do see several go quite well, though; Ala Mhigo, Doma, Bozja. It's just that those are usually with the aid of outside forces, which is typically kinda necessary when the government rallied against is an empire with wide reach in the first place.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:02
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Hellioning posted:I do suppose there's some fighting between Ishgardians when the pope captures Aymeric and we go to rescue him, but most of the actual fighting is done by us for non-government related reasons. Sure, they end up as a republic, but they're not the ones to depose the archbishop, they just decided not to adopt a new one. You couldn't pay me to remember anything that happened in 2.2 to 2.3 so I've completely memory holed that one. I accept its existence though. Also, "most of the actual fighting is done by us", tbf, covers most of the fighting in story events in this game.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:03
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Blockhouse posted:You literally rescue the innocent bystanders before the flooding happens??? Yeah, I don't particularly like the flooding the castly thing, but they explicitly only flood the Garlean occupied castle and it's keep town not any of the other parts of the Doman capitol. I've gone over the flooding in the main thread, but my opinion on it is it's an entirely unearned and unnecessary plot beat that doesn't really sell Hien as the character it wants to the way it wants to. But my opinion came after the Yotsuyu stuff that left me pretty sour on Hien and rethinking my earlier perspective on his character and actions. The Samurai job story is in fact Musosai's apprentice wanting to go back to the bloody war period of Hingashi, that Musosai himself says the primary duty of the Samurai is to stop that from happening because it was a period of time where the weak were abused by the strong. The art of the Samurai evolved as a way to protect and promote justice and peace according to Musosai, in a time of constant war between nobility. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Oct 17, 2021 |
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Oct 17, 2021 06:03
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Blockhouse posted:You literally rescue the innocent bystanders before the flooding happens??? I do not recall that line, and if it was spoken it's rather incredulous to believe that a castle that would require a support staff of hundreds of people to maintain (chefs to feed everyone, painters and masons renovating it, servants dusting rooms, etc) and hundreds of other innocents (pencil pusher bureaucrats who make the government function, people visiting the castle to get the government to do something for them, etc) would have all been evacuated on short notice without the army noticing.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:05
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Lord_Magmar posted:I've gone over the flooding in the main thread, but my opinion on it is it's an entirely unearned and unnecessary plot beat that doesn't really sell Hien as the character it wants to the way it wants to. Hien is a himbo hth
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Oct 17, 2021 06:06
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Moofia Boss Val posted:I do not recall that line, and if it was spoken it's rather incredulous to believe that a castle that would require a support staff of hundreds of people to maintain (chefs to feed everyone, painters and masons renovating it, servants dusting rooms, etc) and hundreds of other innocents (pencil pusher bureaucrats who make the government function, people visiting the castle to get the government to do something for them, etc) would have all been evacuated on short notice without the army noticing. If you go to Garland Tools and type in the name of any quest - in this case, The Die Is Cast - and hit lore you can read the quest dialogue. And whether or not it's incredulous, it happened and the thing you said did not.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:07
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Moofia Boss Val posted:I do not recall that line, and if it was spoken it's rather incredulous to believe that a castle that would require a support staff of hundreds of people to maintain (chefs to feed everyone, painters and masons renovating it, servants dusting rooms, etc) and hundreds of other innocents (pencil pusher bureaucrats who make the government function, people visiting the castle to get the government to do something for them, etc) would have all been evacuated on short notice without the army noticing. The castle is expliticly empty of Domans for the most part actually, because Yotsuyu does not trust them nor want them in her home (remember she lives there). It's a military encapment of the occupying Garleans, the Domans who used to live there were moved out before that to an enclave and are being used as hostages against the revolutionaries. Mordiceius posted:Hien is a himbo hth That the game expects you to consider some great statesman and leader ready to make personal sacrifice for his people, that's the point of the flooding to an extent. Hien sacrificing his own future home (because it is where he'd live, it's his families imperial home) to ensure victory. But the victory was already ensured by the previous plan this is just him making a statement because he can.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:07
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The loss of Doma Castle is a tragedy, but it's a tragedy because of the loss of history, not a loss of life (since, again, there are no innocents in there at the time). And the fact it's actually the Domans making the decision stops it really going on the 'war crimes' docket. Like, if instead the Imperials started to sink the place to stop the Doman resistance taking it, that would be pretty horrid. EDIT: I think the story recognizes and tries to push that Hien is a good lord, but that does not necessarily make him a good person. He's someone who learned that you can't just be a Big Unambiguous Hero Boy to solve the problems of war; sometimes you have to be willing to do something that's actually not all sunshine and roses. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Oct 17, 2021 |
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Oct 17, 2021 06:10
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Cleretic posted:The Samurai job story (specifically 60-70, 50-60 doesn't really have an antagonist) is interesting, because it's essentially a single guy refusing to learn from history. The antagonist is attempting to solve the inherent issues in Hingan society by basically just burning it down and bringing in pure 'rule by the strongest'. Which is what actually brought on a pretty dark time in Japan's history (which one exactly I'm not well-versed enough to say myself, I've just heard it; I want to say the Warring States, but that might just be because I remember that period existing), for reasons that are actually brought up in-story, in a way that suggests Hingashi might've dealt with this before. Because not all plans for revolution are actually good ideas. Hmm, I see. In any event the Hingan government is poo poo enough anyways that a revolution would be understandable if a peaceful solution did not arrive in a timely manner.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:10
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Hellioning posted:Hmm, I see. In any event the Hingan government is poo poo enough anyways that a revolution would be understandable if a peaceful solution did not arrive in a timely manner. And much like the real Edo Bakufu, something will eventually have to give. But the guy whose explicit point is "hey remember when we had that massive civil war where countless untold people died? Let's do that again" is not going to be it. e: Granted what came after the Edo Bakufu was the Meiji Era and then the Empire of Japan so...eehhhh....
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Oct 17, 2021 06:15
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Cleretic posted:The loss of Doma Castle is a tragedy, but it's a tragedy because of the loss of history, not a loss of life (since, again, there are no innocents in there at the time). And the fact it's actually the Domans making the decision stops it really going on the 'war crimes' docket. My problem is he didn't need to sink the castle, it's a completely meaningless gesture. There was no questioning of the success of the original plan, the only addition the flooding gives is that it makes it impossible for the Garleans to effectively evacuate, pinning them in to be captured or killed. I actually don't think he's a good Lord, I think he's an okay one but this plus some of his later stuff really soured me on his leadership skills in a way that makes me very frustrated, because I definitely do like the guy and his introduction arc in the Steppes is really good and clever. As I said this has been gone over in the main thread but my read on Hien is he much prefers the simple life to politics, and is possibly even just kind of bad at politics because of that.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:15
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"I didn't read or pay attention to the story, nor did I care to actually look it up to see my assumption was wrong, but in a way doesn't that make me more correct?"
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Oct 17, 2021 06:22
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Hien’s establishment of an Othardian Alliance and his lending military aid to people fighting Garlean occupation is good. He definitely comes across as better as a wartime leader
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Oct 17, 2021 06:22
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Lord_Magmar posted:My problem is he didn't need to sink the castle, it's a completely meaningless gesture. There was no questioning of the success of the original plan, the only addition the flooding gives is that it makes it impossible for the Garleans to effectively evacuate, pinning them in to be captured or killed. I actually don't think he's a good Lord, I think he's an okay one but this plus some of his later stuff really soured me on his leadership skills in a way that makes me very frustrated, because I definitely do like the guy and his introduction arc in the Steppes is really good and clever. My read on Hien is that he is good at politics, but it's not necessarily our politics. Remember that most of his life was actually on the Azim Steppe, learning from tribes that largely solve disputes with combat. This makes him actually reasonably good at the politics of war, and likely is going to lead to an era of stability in Doma when it desperately needs that; there's not a chance in hell that the Empire are going to come back to Doma, while in contrast Ala Mhigo actually is still having to fight the guys back up until very recently. And yeah, his initiative to set up the Eastern Alliance and help nations like Bozja is actually going to do a lot more to liberate the people not just from current occupation, but from the fears of future occupation. Once the war against Garlemald cools down, I'm interested in seeing what happens in Doma, because I don't think he is a good peacetime leader... but is also a leader that has a lot of faith from his people. I would say that Bajsaljen would probably end up becoming a stronger leader of the Eastern Alliance once all is said and done, as he's a man that actually does value more egalitarian ideals and is somewhat at home in a diplomatic role, but I don't see Hien getting removed from his lordship by uprising. In western comparisons, Hien might end up being sort of a Churchill figure; actually not especially good after the war is over, but beloved because he was a strong leader during it. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Oct 17, 2021 |
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Oct 17, 2021 06:29
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Cleretic posted:My read on Hien is that he is good at politics, but it's not necessarily our politics. Remember that most of his life was actually on the Azim Steppe, learning from tribes that largely solve disputes with combat. This makes him actually reasonably good at the politics of war, and likely is going to lead to an era of stability in Doma when it desperately needs that; there's not a chance in hell that the Empire are going to come back to Doma, while in contrast Ala Mhigo actually is still having to fight the guys back up until very recently. And yeah, his initiative to set up the Eastern Alliance and help nations like Bozja is actually going to do a lot more to liberate the people not just from current occupation, but from the fears of future occupation. Oh absolutely not, I like Hien. I think he's fine, I just soured on him a good deal because of how he handles well, everything, around Yotsuyu and Asahi, as well as looking back at his decisions with flooding the castle and living out in the Azim Steppe and having Yugiri find "the Heart of Doma" to convince him that he should come back and lead a rebellion. His forging of the Othardian Alliance helped a bunch on this front too, because it was a return to him being the character I liked in the Azim Steppe.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:32
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Doma politics just kinda be boring and don't feel super well developed at times.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:35
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Cleretic posted:My read on Hien is that he is good at politics, but it's not necessarily our politics. Remember that most of his life was actually on the Azim Steppe, learning from tribes that largely solve disputes with combat. This makes him actually reasonably good at the politics of war, and likely is going to lead to an era of stability in Doma when it desperately needs that; there's not a chance in hell that the Empire are going to come back to Doma, while in contrast Ala Mhigo actually is still having to fight the guys back up until very recently. And yeah, his initiative to set up the Eastern Alliance and help nations like Bozja is actually going to do a lot more to liberate the people not just from current occupation, but from the fears of future occupation. Didn't he only flee to the Steppe after the failed revolution that led Yugiri to Eorzea, which happened in 2.2 or something? Even assuming for the travel time, that's certainly not 'most of his life'
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Oct 17, 2021 06:44
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Hellioning posted:Didn't he only flee to the Steppe after the failed revolution that led Yugiri to Eorzea, which happened in 2.2 or something? Even assuming for the travel time, that's certainly not 'most of his life' I don't think so, actually. Far as I can tell, there were multiple attempted uprisings before the successful one. Kaien died in one when Hien was 'still young' according to the Bozja field notes. Yugiri fled after a failed uprising during the war of succession--which actually crucially can't be the one Kaien died in. Kaien died to Zenos; at the time of the war of succession, Zenos was in Ala Mhigo and Yotsuyu was running Doma.
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Oct 17, 2021 06:55
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Yeah, when the rebellion fails Yugiri takes the refugees who can escape to Eorzea, Gosetsu stays to watch over those who can't (I think? Been a while. Did Hien's dad survive and that was why he stayed?), and Hien flees to the Steppe to try and shield the people from retaliation. So it's been a few years of nebulous RPG time, maybe 5 years or so. Also, Hien flooded the castle as an alternative to hand-to-hand fighting. It was a gesture, to be sure, but one with an actual purpose of trying to minimize the blood his people had to lose. Valuing that over the symbols of rule.
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Oct 17, 2021 07:00
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Cleretic posted:I don't think so, actually. Far as I can tell, there were multiple attempted uprisings before the successful one. Kaien died in one when Hien was 'still young' according to the Bozja field notes. Yugiri fled after a failed uprising during the war of succession--which actually crucially can't be the one Kaien died in. Kaien died to Zenos; at the time of the war of succession, Zenos was in Ala Mhigo and Yotsuyu was running Doma. I thought Zenos stopped the rebellion and left Yotsuyu to pick up the pieces? The whole point was he was administrating over two distant regions and stretched thin when matters required his personal attention.
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Oct 17, 2021 07:03
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This is the case of outright contradiction in lore. In the lore book it says Kaien died when Zenos came back after the Imperial War of Succession ended - so literally immediately before Heavensward. In the Bozja notes it's implied it was a different raid entirely thar happened when Hien was vaguely "younger".
Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Oct 17, 2021 |
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Oct 17, 2021 07:45
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