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Cythereal posted:I think the lesson here is, never infest theater nerds.
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# ? Oct 16, 2021 16:35 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 07:42 |
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Chapter 42 Ax quote:The Time Matrix was surprisingly simple to operate. It could be directed by thought-speak command. There were no codes to break, no subtleties to grapple with. Interesting meditation about changing history, there. Chapter 43 Cassie quote:Five heads snapped. The world's not perfect. It's not right. But it's the way it was, except for one John Berryman. And it ends with a kiss. Tomorrow, we're starting a Marco book, The Reunion, ghostwritten by Elise Smith, who I've also seen credited as Elise Donner.
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 03:15 |
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Kind of a cop out that they never had to actually decide that changing history again was worth it.
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 03:30 |
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I never really understood why preventing Berryman from being born stops V4 from finding the Time Matrix, especially since the text here suggests that it was V4 in Berryman's body who found it, not something he found before being infested.Epicurius posted:Tomorrow, we're starting a Marco book, The Reunion, ghostwritten by Elise Smith, who I've also seen credited as Elise Donner. I remember this being a good one!
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 03:41 |
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WrightOfWay posted:Kind of a cop out that they never had to actually decide that changing history again was worth it. I get that "changing history so that someone is never born and so the plot doesn't happen" is a concept that blows the intended audience's mind (I know it did mine), but I feel like the easier and less question-inducing solution is to kill V4 and John Berryman in the construction site right before they find the Time Matrix.
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 05:00 |
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Or they could go to where the Time Matrix is buried and move it before Visser 4 finds it? Better than erasing an innocent guy from history. It seems like removing a marriage and birth from the timeline would have some sort of effect, although probably not on a noticable level.
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 05:42 |
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Edna Mode posted:Or they could go to where the Time Matrix is buried and move it before Visser 4 finds it? Better than erasing an innocent guy from history. It seems like removing a marriage and birth from the timeline would have some sort of effect, although probably not on a noticable level. Also, if he had any siblings, those changes would cascade out exponentially. And his parents potentially meeting and marrying other people, and having different children, would too.
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 06:35 |
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Fuschia tude posted:Also, if he had any siblings, those changes would cascade out exponentially. And his parents potentially meeting and marrying other people, and having different children, would too. Yah. It always gets messy like that with time travel stories. Personally I don't like them for that reason though it is science fiction so time travel is going to happen sooner or later.
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 08:06 |
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I like that Rachel makes the point that never gets brought up, that every day we change history forever throughout our actions and not just when you do poo poo in the past.
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 08:28 |
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Pwnstar posted:I like that Rachel makes the point that never gets brought up, that every day we change history forever throughout our actions and not just when you do poo poo in the past. I mean, she does, I don't think I'm doing anything particularly monumental
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 09:50 |
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freebooter posted:I mean, she does, I don't think I'm doing anything particularly monumental Ah yes but by not doing anything monumental you are changing history because there was the possibility that you could have. So by living an ordinary goon life you are actually doing something vitally important to the timeline and you can tell your significant other that next time you get nagged for not doing the dishes.
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 10:39 |
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Pwnstar posted:Ah yes but by not doing anything monumental you are changing history because there was the possibility that you could have. So by living an ordinary goon life you are actually doing something vitally important to the timeline and you can tell your significant other that next time you get nagged for not doing the dishes. "Dear, if I wash those dishes, it's possible in the future, a nuclear war will devastate the earth, and I can't risk that!"
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 16:15 |
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HIJK posted:Yah. It always gets messy like that with time travel stories. Personally I don't like them for that reason though it is science fiction so time travel is going to happen sooner or later. The biggest problem in any self-consistent time travel story involving travel to the past with an attempt to change the present/future, especially an attempt to stop a different time traveler, is you're likely to create an endless time loop seesawing back and forth between the two timelines. Since the animorphs succeeded in unmaking the other time traveler, they have just obviated the whole reason they had to go back in time in the first place. Which means (if the story treated time travel properly) they have now created an infinite time loop between 1967 to 1999 in the "good" timeline, and then 1415 to 1999 in the "bad" timeline, repeating in alternating sequence forever. The only way to "safely" travel to the past is to ensure you still have a reason to travel to that point in the past. It might be a different reason than in the original case, but it has to be a reason important enough to still make the time traveler want to go to the past. In this case, as mentioned, obviously that could well be that that yeerk infests a different person and then goes on to discover the time matrix. Which means the animorphs would follow them through a different series of time hops (since presumably most controllers are not theater nerds) until they get control of the matrix and go to un-meet-cute a different couple. And then it would happen again with a third host, and a fourth, and on and on until the timeline stabilizes in some other way and they get out of it without successfully unmaking their impetus-to-time-travel, either accidentally or intentionally. Or they never do, and they're just locked in Groundhog Decades forever, only with a different yeerk/controller each time.
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# ? Oct 17, 2021 22:05 |
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quote:“Oh, it existed,” the Drode said. “It exists. It was found by a lowly human-Controller, who uses the name John Berryman. He’s an actor. Not a very successful one. A lowly Controller whose Yeerk was, until he lost the battle for Leera, none other than Visser Four. I think the idea is that John Berryman found the matrix first, then was infested- or that it was something specific to him that led V4 to go looking around the construction site/find the matrix. If V4 had had a different host he wouldn't have found it. The first passage maybe points to it being V4 who found it, specifically, though it is a) From the Drode, who twists the truth b) still singles out it being found by Berryman, who incidentally was infested by V4 c) does the common thing the series/characters do of conflating the yeerk with the host. Like, Controller refers to the yeerk- so Berryman should've been referred to as a lowly Controlled As for recursive loops, I think we probably just gotta handwave it with "Ellimist/Crayak did it", same as how they locked the Animorphs personalities. Using the Matrix to stop V4 just before he finds the Matrix probably would've been a better option, I'll agree, (or even going all the way to end the Yeerk war/change human history themselves, as floated), although... I think since Ellimist/Crayak don't want the Matrix to be used, they arranged thing such that the Animorphs take the route that boils down to "removes the Matrix from play, without making big changes in the present conflict/the Animorphs having access to the Matrix".
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 00:43 |
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also there's this bit from Axquote:I wondered how it had come to Earth. And I wondered how my brother, Elfangor, had known it was on Earth. Because surely he had known. Visser Four was right: Elfangor had chosen the spot deliberately. It was no coincidence that he had landed, had died, within a few feet of this machine. ...except Ax never had a conversation with V4 (or the Drode) to reveal this, that the Matrix was found at the construction site. Probably there was a conversation between the two that was removed, but this bit was missed. So anyway, the Animorphs don't actually know where the time matrix was found, probably. Although they could've asked John Berryman?
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 00:59 |
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Mazerunner posted:As for recursive loops, I think we probably just gotta handwave it with "Ellimist/Crayak did it", same as how they locked the Animorphs personalities. If the Ellimayak can just wave their hand(s) and make it happen why do they need the animorps to do a thing at all
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 01:24 |
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Fuschia tude posted:If the Ellimayak can just wave their hand(s) and make it happen why do they need the animorps to do a thing at all Gotta decide who is the winner of this particular game somehow.
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 01:28 |
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Ax has read the Andalite Chronicles. He would have also known how it had come to earth and Elfangor had known, but see, there was this pretty girl, and a game that afternoon, so.... I think the idea behind removing Berryman is that Visser Four discovered the time matrix when he was in Berryman (because before that, he was on Leera), and him having a different host would have changed his responsibilities and therefore his schedule, so whatever circumstances led to him finding the time matrix wouldn't have existed.
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 01:34 |
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It also suggests that Berryman excavated it while working at the construction site, which raises further questions. "See you on Monday fellas, have a good weekend." (Walks away rolling the huge muddy white alien sphere ahead of him)
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 01:39 |
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Mazerunner posted:also there's this bit from Ax Ah good catch
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 01:53 |
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Fuschia tude posted:If the Ellimayak can just wave their hand(s) and make it happen why do they need the animorps to do a thing at all Because too much handwaving was destroying the universe so they made up rules
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 01:57 |
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freebooter posted:It also suggests that Berryman excavated it while working at the construction site, which raises further questions. The union rules specifically say they aren't responsible for Lovecraftian alien superweapons.
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 03:29 |
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Animorphs 30-The Reunion I'm still looking, but I have yet to find out anything about Elise Smith, the ghostwriter. When and if I do, I will let you know. Chapter 1 quote:It was happening again. Unbelievably, it was happening again. Poor Marco, having nightmares about his mother and still being forced to lay out the series premise. Chapter 2 quote:With a clean face and conditioned hair I headed toward the school bus stop. And walked past it. Now, remember, it's Animorph policy not to acquire unwitting sentient beings. But this is Marco, after all. Also, Visser One is back!
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 03:33 |
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As a kid it felt weird that Marco would so quickly and casually break that longstanding taboo, but as an adult it makes total sense that he'd be flipping out after a random encounter with his mum and completely committed to not letting her get away.
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 04:43 |
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Epicurius posted:Animorphs 30-The Reunion You should check out Poparena's book-by-book breakdown on YouTube, he tries to credit and bio the ghostwriters at the start of each video, but some of them are just completely non-existent in terms of available info, and Smith might be one of them.
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 07:19 |
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nine-gear crow posted:You should check out Poparena's book-by-book breakdown on YouTube, he tries to credit and bio the ghostwriters at the start of each video, but some of them are just completely non-existent in terms of available info, and Smith might be one of them. IIRC at least a couple of them were just like Applegrant's neighbors and babysitter at the time.
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 07:44 |
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If you leave the Yeerks out if it, Marco basically has a cinematic serial killer origin story.
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 11:20 |
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Pwnstar posted:If you leave the Yeerks out if it, Marco basically has a cinematic serial killer origin story. So would most child soldiers, probably, if you ignored their circumstances.
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 12:27 |
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nine-gear crow posted:You should check out Poparena's book-by-book breakdown on YouTube, he tries to credit and bio the ghostwriters at the start of each video, but some of them are just completely non-existent in terms of available info, and Smith might be one of them. He doesn't know who she is either, although, to correct myself earlier, the ghostwriter is Elise Donner, not Elise Smith (who was another ghostwriter). Applegate did say that Donner came and fixed the book after the original ghostwriter gave her an incomprehensible manuscript. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Oct 18, 2021 |
# ? Oct 18, 2021 12:31 |
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freebooter posted:As a kid it felt weird that Marco would so quickly and casually break that longstanding taboo, but as an adult it makes total sense that he'd be flipping out after a random encounter with his mum and completely committed to not letting her get away. Yeah, I don't remember most of the details of this book (I remember the broad strokes and I remember liking it), but I think we're absolutely supposed to see that as Marco doing whatever's necessary to stay on his mother's track, on the assumption that he can justify it after the fact as investigating Visser One, whom they've heard zero about for the past half of the series.
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# ? Oct 18, 2021 12:53 |
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Chapter 3quote:The revolving door whooshed. Footsteps behind me. I turned around. So his method of getting in the building is pretty certainly unethical, but it's also effective. Also, how is it that nobody notices Marco morphing in a crowded elevator? Also, the "If adults think you're a moron, they leave you alone" advice is not bad advice. Chapter 4 quote:I let go with my sticky, pincher fly feet. I buzzed my gossamer wings and lifted up off the Visser’s metal case. In regards to Marco's morphing into Mr. Grant and being shocked and horrified that his handsome self has transformed into somebody fat and balding, and getting an unwanted glimpse into his future, I want to remind you all that Marco is based on Applegate's husband and cowriter, Michael Grant.
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# ? Oct 19, 2021 03:35 |
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quote:The first thing to change was my stomach. It grew out and around until the seams of my morphing suit began to tear. The logic around morphing clothing has never been strong, but, uh...
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# ? Oct 19, 2021 05:02 |
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freebooter posted:The logic around morphing clothing has never been strong, but, uh... I mean, when you think about it, the narrative had two options here: 1) Marco keeps the morphing suit, and it tears because he morphs someone larger. 2) Marco morphs away the morphing suit, and now he's just a naked human. I'm fine with the narrative handwaving things in this case.
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# ? Oct 19, 2021 17:29 |
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3) Mr. Grant is such an accomplished Business Man that his suit and tie have become part of his DNA
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# ? Oct 19, 2021 18:23 |
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Marco just casually broke like four taboos of the Animorphs in three chapters. Not a bad start.
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# ? Oct 19, 2021 19:43 |
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Little things like that always stuck out to me, I remember disliking this book because of stuff like that.
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# ? Oct 19, 2021 20:53 |
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OctaviusBeaver posted:3) Mr. Grant is such an accomplished Business Man that his suit and tie have become part of his DNA I've encountered lines like "excellence is in our DNA" in corporate blurbs more than once. I guess this is what they mean?
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# ? Oct 19, 2021 23:51 |
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Chapter 5quote:It was almost lunch period by the time I’d gone home, changed, and got back to school. It's good to see Chapman actually doing vice-principal stuff for once, instead of like, driving a forklift. Chapter 6 quote:“Marco,” Cassie said, “tell us why we’re here.” Poor Jake. Also, Marco, Ax, and Tobias adventure! I'm also pretty sure that Marco is not going to be able to be as unbiased as he thinks.
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# ? Oct 20, 2021 03:09 |
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Epicurius posted:Also, Marco, Ax, and Tobias adventure! Very much looking forward to this. Although I still lol at Chapman being relegated to Chief Forklift Driver.
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# ? Oct 20, 2021 03:43 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 07:42 |
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Cassie, who has morphed into dozens of different creatures, been infested by a yeerk and morphed into a yeerk that infested others, encountered and sometimes killed members of a dozen alien races, genocided 2 ancient alien races, performed untrained brain surgery, got stuck as a caterpillar and was reborn, has traveled to Leera and Iskoort, met unfathomably powerful cosmic beings and has experienced at least 4 distinct types of time travel, can still care about passing a math test!
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# ? Oct 20, 2021 04:57 |