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ninjoatse.cx posted:Corrupt local officals filling their pockets with developer RMB, or 50+ year old NIMBYs who really don't give a poo poo about anything besides how it might effect them? Less evil / great evil? Could be persuaded either way, really. Two approaches to a problem that in turn cause problems of their own. Cue endless articles in western media about ghost cities in China, and endless douyin shorts about homelessness in the west.
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Oct 16, 2021 06:04
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i heard winnie the poo finally caught that road runner jack ma? is that true?
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Oct 16, 2021 07:48
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snergle posted:i heard winnie the poo finally caught that road runner jack ma? is that true? Jackie Ma has been out of it for a while, so it looks that way. He'll almost certainly pop back up at some point, but it's always nice to see a billionaire get hosed, regardless of the motivations behind it. Also every time I write 'Jack Ma' as 'Jackie Ma' I wonder if the character naming in the game Sleeping Dogs was deliberate or not.
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Oct 16, 2021 08:10
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ninjoatse.cx posted:Corrupt local officals filling their pockets with developer RMB, or 50+ year old NIMBYs who really don't give a poo poo about anything besides how it might effect them? Less evil / great evil? Unfortunately if you swap RMB to $ this statement could be about the county I live in.
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Oct 16, 2021 09:14
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Atopian posted:Jackie Ma has been out of it for a while, so it looks that way. i thought they tried a few times and he would always pop up later. did they actually get him and he made the public apology video etc?
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Oct 16, 2021 18:40
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Education changes kicking into overdrive, in an 'experimental area' that includes many of the most developed and populous areas of China Haven't got an image host handy, but basically the idea seems to be moving from a system of 9 years of compulsory education +2 years that almost all (urban) students take, followed by university to a similar degree (albeit differing quality) as the west, to: - 9 years compulsory education, shifted somewhat in start/finish ages - many (most) students just having that, then getting to work - split streams for those who continue, theoretical/technical There's a lot more than I have time to translate and summarise, but very serious changes overall. You could argue it as "ending unnecessary degree inflation" or "producing a society of obedient workers", but whichever way things shake out, it's a bit shift. Also lots of the anti-gay stuff that has been popular recently.
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Oct 18, 2021 06:00
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they aren't gonna get to 70% total pop high school, are they that was rozelle's threshhold for avoiding middle income trap
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Oct 18, 2021 08:13
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bob dobbs is dead posted:they aren't gonna get to 70% total pop high school, are they I mean it depends how you define highschool. And at present 'highschool' is being redefined. So. It *seems* like they're consciously trying to make a middle-income country. Moderately trained workforce, large chunks working advanced manufacturing but still manufacturing. Advanced/abstract education available to proportionally fewer. Thing is, I don't see how that really slots into a world where low-end extraction/manufacturing is pushed off onto whatever fresh low-income hell capitalism has decided to create, and high-end manufacturing becomes ever more automated, capital-intensive, and detached from labour. Although maybe that's the joke, and this isn't intended to slot into the world, but rather sit alongside it, separately. If you can handle your own domestic needs, and are some sort of isolationist lunatic, how long can you go on with that before things break down? Probably many years.
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Oct 18, 2021 08:52
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peeps note how prc has most of the rare earth metal production capability but neglect to mention how it imports literally every other commodity. iron ore to coal to oil to food
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Oct 18, 2021 09:07
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So just like the West they have given up on the idea that university education is any kind of inherent moral/social/personal good, let alone a basic right. Nope it is job training or political training so you can make money for the tyrant.
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Oct 18, 2021 09:25
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Strategic Tea posted:So just like the West they have given up on the idea that university education is any kind of inherent moral/social/personal good, let alone a basic right. Nope it is job training or political training so you can make money for the tyrant. I mean previously in China for anything but the top universities it was a box to tick for entry into certain careers, so honestly tyrant-money-making might actually be a step up.
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Oct 18, 2021 10:42
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It's still unclear if this is some sort of official change being pursued or just what some dude was talking about, but it's a lot more radical than giving up on universities. Removing all early childhood education/pre-K stuff (if you're not familiar with education policy, this is the most loving bananas part of the proposal, so insane it makes me suspicious that this isn't real), four years primary school, three middle, two high. Then if you go beyond that there's a lot more tracking into specific training for making specialized laborers rather than general education. Curious how it might affect literacy. I did some extra classes at middle schools for money and kids were still learning hanzi into at least seventh grade.
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Oct 18, 2021 17:44
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So they're all going to get a Grade 9 education, like Ricky from Trailer Park Boys?
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Oct 18, 2021 18:06
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As far as years go it's not really different, high school isn't compulsory in China and you have to pay tuition so most Chinese kids don't go. This just sort of got out there and there's no explanation at all what the dude proposing it is thinking. It's not like I think the way education is done now is fine, but I have been thinking about this since I saw it and I cannot figure out what the logic is. But I also think of education as a way to learn things and improve your ability to think, which is not really how the PRC sees it. In any case changing education radically would meet more resistance than any other policy change I can think of. And it takes decades. If they're thinking of this as a strategy to avoid the cliff awaiting because of how bad the education system is, it's too late. They're already short on workers with sufficient education to handle modern jobs. They needed to do that 30 years ago.
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Oct 18, 2021 18:14
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McGavin posted:So they're all going to get a Grade 9 education, like Ricky from Trailer Park Boys? xi jinping thought is like a hash driveway
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Oct 18, 2021 18:15
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Grand Fromage posted:As far as years go it's not really different, high school isn't compulsory in China and you have to pay tuition so most Chinese kids don't go. Are they? Beyond the western "we need more codemonkeys to bid the price down" talk, are they deficient in scientific and technical backgrounds, and in generally intelligent folks able to do office jobs flexiblity? I don't know about china, but with how much people in the west decry a stem shortage I'm generall sceptical of "we don't have enough educated workers in the exact skills we need" talk.
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Oct 18, 2021 18:27
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30% of working people in china have high school, dont let the images of elite peeps in shanghai fool you. thats a worse ratio than mexico or turkey, let alone japan or korea among 25yo-34yo this improves to about 40% graduated from high school 97% of urban kids attend high school, about a third of that in rural kids. average rural kid is like 2-5 grade levels behind spiffy hukou kids. so this is the avenue of discrimination in prc when they dont have race like americans (they totally fuckin have race like americans) 64% of peeps have rural hukou, and like 70% of kids bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Oct 18, 2021 |
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Oct 18, 2021 18:31
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one thing i think the reforms may be addressing is labor supply problems. a lot of the switching to vietnam and se asia and india and stuff is based upon pure cost of labor calculations and it may be a stopgap measure to drive wages down for export competitiveness, which is indeed getting bad in less-than-T1 cities (the T1 cities have viable high-skill high-end labor stuff: the T888 cities don't, shenzhen is great for making light electronics, lanzhou not so much) drat stupid idea if so bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 18, 2021 |
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Oct 18, 2021 18:49
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Are they? Beyond the western "we need more codemonkeys to bid the price down" talk, are they deficient in scientific and technical backgrounds, and in generally intelligent folks able to do office jobs flexiblity? I don't know about china, but with how much people in the west decry a stem shortage I'm generall sceptical of "we don't have enough educated workers in the exact skills we need" talk. Yes, they are. China has the lowest education performance of any comparable country and it's not even close. The vast majority of kids are rural, and most of them don't make it to high school. China's no longer the bottom of the barrel in production, you have to have basic skills to be able to do the manufacturing they do now or work in the service jobs that are growing every day, and most Chinese kids don't go to high school and can't handle those. Not to mention there's no early childhood education (which is by far the most return on investment of any education) and like half of rural kids are so malnourished their brains don't develop properly. Highly recommend reading this if you're interested: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/I/bo61544815.html Laid out in detail with all the data you need. You really have to keep in mind that all you see of China from the outside (and most likely the inside if you are an expat there) is from the big cities, which are indeed fine and in most ways just as good as anywhere else in the world. But that's a small minority of the country. It's like if you walked around Manhattan for a day and thought huh I don't see what the problem is, the US looks great to me.
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Oct 18, 2021 19:58
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Atopian posted:Education changes kicking into overdrive, in an 'experimental area' that includes many of the most developed and populous areas of China Wait, that's the exact same system that Imperial Japan had, except without conscription at the end if you didn't go to a technical school afterwards.
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Oct 18, 2021 22:07
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like half of all east asian policy is cribbed from the japanese and then studiously given a kayfabe of bein original
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Oct 18, 2021 22:16
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Very sad if the preschool and/or kindergarten thing is true. Those are more important than college, and I say that as a western college grad. Also, Chinese university degrees: I read somewhere that a bachelors is a 3 yr degree? Is this true?
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Oct 18, 2021 23:49
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Don Gato posted:Wait, that's the exact same system that Imperial Japan had, except without conscription at the end if you didn't go to a technical school afterwards. It's also very similar to the Prussian system that almost all western countries used as a base for their schools. The Prussian system was created specifically to produce useful, skilled factory workers. But there's usually another split at 6 years, where they filter out the obvious manual labourers from the potential middle management.
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Oct 18, 2021 23:52
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I haven't heard about it being three years. High school is three years in East Asia. But Chinese undergrad is a thing where you take the entrance exam, spend four years playing video games and chain smoking, then get your 100% guaranteed degree so it really doesn't matter how many years it is.
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Oct 18, 2021 23:53
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Tnuctip posted:Also, Chinese university degrees: I read somewhere that a bachelors is a 3 yr degree? Is this true? Bachelor's degrees in Australia are commonly 3 years. I started doing an IT degree that was 4 years long, but on the third year I converted it over to a 3 year Science degree with a computing major and got back out into the workforce. A few years after that the 4 year IT degree was changed to a 3 year one.
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Oct 19, 2021 00:43
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Yeah, the UK system starts at age ~5, has 11 compulsory grades, 2 optional ones that focus hard, then 3-year bachelor's that focuses harder. US system always seemed strange to me, but obviously subjective.
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Oct 19, 2021 01:00
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Atopian posted:Yeah, the UK system starts at age ~5, has 11 compulsory grades, 2 optional ones that focus hard, then 3-year bachelor's that focuses harder. Same number of years though, just split those two optional grades between high school and university. Also the US has no mandatory number of years for any university program. You have to pass a certain number of classes to get a degree, which typically takes four years for a bachelor's. If you want to just take a shitload of classes and have no other life you can, I have a few friends who did it in three years. You can also take advanced classes in some high schools which count as college ones and shave off time that way.
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Oct 19, 2021 01:02
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Grand Fromage posted:Same number of years though, just split those two optional grades between high school and university. Yes. Ultimately, one off the degree, added to secondary school.
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Oct 19, 2021 01:03
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I also have a friend who is completely insane and finished a master's program in nuclear engineering in one year because he just wanted to get it out of the way and get to the PhD.
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Oct 19, 2021 01:05
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Gromit posted:Bachelor's degrees in Australia are commonly 3 years. I started doing an IT degree that was 4 years long, but on the third year I converted it over to a 3 year Science degree with a computing major and got back out into the workforce. A few years after that the 4 year IT degree was changed to a 3 year one.
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Oct 19, 2021 01:11
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Tnuctip posted:
Not exactly, the 3 year degree, 大专, isn't really what we'd call a bachelor's degree, it's a lot more like an associate's degree. I've heard it get translated by universities as "business program" (though, like, "business engineering" although there's nothing "business" about it compared to any other degree, they just mean more like it's supposed to be practical.) The 4 year degree, 本科, is a bachelor's degree. The standards for getting into a 3 year program are much lower, and the degree itself is not very useful at all, but partway through it there's a path (a test, really) to hop over to the 4 year program. The big difference between it and an associate's degree though is, grad schools and a lot of jobs won't just take your highest education into consideration. I think it's the majority of grad schools (though I haven't counted) who will say if you have ever been a part of a 3 year program you are ineligible whether you tested into a 4 year program or not.
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Oct 19, 2021 01:20
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The Lone Badger posted:3 years is bachelors, 4 years is honours, 5 years is masters. PhD is variable but starts after masters. Isn’t this the weird confusing system where a bachelors is basically super high school, and only a masters and PhD are at a “university”? My company hired a guy, seems smart and nice enough, had a masters from a Chinese university and then a PhD from a Japanese one. Preschool still the best education out of all the above though.
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Oct 19, 2021 02:21
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Tnuctip posted:Isn’t this the weird confusing system where a bachelors is basically super high school, and only a masters and PhD are at a “university”? If Australia, no. University occurs after 12 years of schooling, with 'high school' referring to the last part of this. You'd leave this at 17 or 18 years of age typically, but people may choose to leave at 15-16 years of age and pursue a trade (though it's common to finish it before doing a trade anyway). At uni, you do a 3 year 'base' bachelor degree and then may optionally choose to do honours (with a good enough GPA), which involves writing a thesis (or equivalent) in a 4th year and which if you pass confers a bachelor with honours. In some subjects (e.g. engineering) there is a mandatory thesis and 4th year, and you get honours based on your GPA. Upon finishing your bachelors, you can then choose to do masters, which is typically 2 years, but may only be 1 year for certain degrees if you roll the honours part into it and do a straight 5-year blob of a degree. PhD is then separate and you generally need a masters. As mentioned, it's variable length but 3 years minimum. Nam Taf fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Oct 19, 2021 |
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Oct 19, 2021 03:31
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There's no excuse for a country to be doing something like this now - unless they're deliberately aiming for a Pol Pot style destruction of the educational system because uneducated people are easier to manipulate. Even Xi isn't going to gently caress up this much. He can't possibly. To use the US as an example - but not in the whataboutism way, I swear - poor literacy levels are a known issue with people just not being able to do the jobs which are needed to be done in industries which rely on increasingly advanced tech. Here's an article from 1995 (goddamn, how is that a quarter of a century ago?) discussing the issue with workers who can't read or do maths. BATTLING AGAINST WORKPLACE ILLITERACY quote:An estimated 40 million adults in the United States -- or about one in five workers -- can barely read or write, according to a recent national study.
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Oct 19, 2021 06:41
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In all fairness, I've always struggled with how to add fractions together myself 
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Oct 19, 2021 07:58
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Advance warning that I'm totally not going to read any post that tries to explain to me how you do add fractions together.
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Oct 19, 2021 07:58
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adding or subtracting fractions isnt the hard part. its the multiplication and dividing that sucks balls. Just convert poo poo to decimals and do it that way to save sanity.
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Oct 19, 2021 08:16
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Pistol_Pete posted:Advance warning that I'm totally not going to read any post that tries to explain to me how you do add fractions together. Just make up the answer and rely on your colleagues not knowing any better, duhh
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Oct 19, 2021 08:29
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UCS Hellmaker posted:adding or subtracting fractions isnt the hard part. its the multiplication and dividing that sucks balls. Just convert poo poo to decimals and do it that way to save sanity. What are you talking about, multiplying and dividing is way easier since you don't have to do extra poo poo to make common denominators. Just fuckin' mash those top and bottom factors together and you're all good.
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Oct 19, 2021 08:30
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UCS Hellmaker posted:adding or subtracting fractions isnt the hard part. its the multiplication and dividing that sucks balls. Just convert poo poo to decimals and do it that way to save sanity. Decimals are less accurate though
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Oct 19, 2021 08:41
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