|
Listening to Bryan and Vinny and I'm up to January 98 and it feels like the wheels are falling off. When do the shows stop selling out?
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 07:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 22:34 |
|
|
FUCKFACE MORON posted:The story I've heard about Brad Armstrong is that he was very charismatic and hilarious with the boys in the back but as soon as he had to cut a promo in front of the camera the crippling stage fright would wipe it all out. gently caress me that's a loving theme and a half.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 07:11
|
|
|
FUCKFACE MORON posted:The story I've heard about Brad Armstrong is that he was very charismatic and hilarious with the boys in the back but as soon as he had to cut a promo in front of the camera the crippling stage fright would wipe it all out. I always remember an old episode of Worldwide back in late 99/early 2000 where they had a segment of Saturday Night and the Armstrongs coming out to that theme. Because I was young and dumb I'd base who I wanted to win on the entrance theme and it was definitely them I wanted to win. That match is also why I always recognise Scott Armstrong as a referee in WWE because I remember him coming out to that cool theme. Luigi Thirty posted:I will always take Jimmy Hart and a drum machine over the garbage themes Up North uses these days Even the jobbers had great themes. I remember Road Block having a great one.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 12:04
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:Listening to Bryan and Vinny and I'm up to January 98 and it feels like the wheels are falling off. The Fingerpoke is in January of '99 so I'm going to guess after that's when your drop off gets really noticeable. Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Oct 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 14:40
|
|
|
Yeah, not that the Fingerpoke was the single event that doomed WCW, but they had finally squandered so much goodwill that the house show business drops off throughout '99.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 14:47
|
|
|
I remember in Death of WCW Bryan mentions that Bischoff predicted WWF's over-the-top raunchiness would bite them in the rear end eventually, Say what you want about WCW, but before Russo arrived and got his slimy fingers on everything, there were no Bra and Panties Matches or wrestling in mud. Also wrestling in gravy and mud is just gross, I like sexy women as much as any straight man but I don't want my woman covered in gravy. I don't know if even the crowd wanted that. I'm sure they enjoyed the B&P matches but...gravy? Whatever. My point is, WCW did have at least some class and taste in some areas and never stooped to those levels until Russo brought everything wrong with WWF to WCW.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 21:39
|
|
|
I think it was Meltzer who said that WCW, like WWE now, had a die-hard group of watchers that would keep tuning in each week no matter how bad it got. The thing that finally made them tune-out was WCW stopped looking like WCW, thanks to Russo and those after him. Once WCW stopped looking like WCW, those viewers were gone and they didn't move over to any other promotion afterward.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 21:45
|
|
|
the running gag of "wrestling fans want to loving watch the style of wrestling they are used to and now whatever the gently caress the wwf is doing" throughout history is very good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 21:49
|
|
|
Tato posted:I think it was Meltzer who said that WCW, like WWE now, had a die-hard group of watchers that would keep tuning in each week no matter how bad it got. The thing that finally made them tune-out was WCW stopped looking like WCW, thanks to Russo and those after him. Once WCW stopped looking like WCW, those viewers were gone and they didn't move over to any other promotion afterward. That was pretty much me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 21:53
|
|
|
WCW used to air Nitro and their PPVs free-to-air in NZ, but I remember pretty much just tuning out because if felt like every single episode and PPV ended with the nWo standing tall, over the fallen babyfaces, shoving each other out of the way to mash their faces against the camera while screaming "too sweet" over and over. My teenage brain was like, why in fuckery would I give a toss about a bunch of loser fuckfaces who get beaten up all the time forever, week after week? The novelty of a sweaty, bald Hogan grimacing at the camera, doing his stupid loving duckface while flexing and looking like a muppet made out of leather wore off pretty quickly too. My viewing was becoming quite sporadic, so after missing a bunch of episodes due to a critical case of "not giving enough of a gently caress," I missed the formation of the nWo Wolfpack (I hope you can appreciate my bafflement at seeing Sting appear on screen, looking like a lobster. A guy at school had to fill me in on the details there), and when the Fingerpoke of Doom happened and Goldberg ended the episode beaten down and covered in spraypaint, looking like a loser fuckface like the rest of the WCW dorks, I was done. It wasn't a case of "I'm mad because look at how they massacred my boy!" it was more a case of "ugh, honestly, why am I bothering to watch this poo poo at this point? It's the same garbage every single week." Like, say what you will about Vince McMahon, at least during the Attitude Era, there were many occasions where the babyfaces would end the episode standing tall while the heel faction would get knocked down a peg or two - like there were two adversaries that could conceivably defeat each other on any given day, giving as good as they got. I guess I just got tired of watching a bunch of boomers act like that kid in primary school, well past the point where they should have grown out of that poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 23:36
|
|
|
This month it is the Spooky Season Return of Tuesday Nitro! Tonight at 8 we have HALLOWEEN HAVOC 97! http://psp-tv.com/r/badmoviesworsewrestling Join us.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 19:58
|
|
|
Watching Nitro from Oct. 5, 1996 where Jeff Jarrett shows up and actually cuts a quite good baby face promo on Hogan. And on RAW that week they’re trying to bury him and playing video segments of him so the man was on both shows that night- I have to respect the hustle.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 01:49
|
|
|
Not the hustle it’s THE STROKE.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 02:30
|
|
|
I know that 1997 WWF is solid, but I can't remember, how was 1997 WCW? In hindsight I kind of hate it because I know the nWo never gets the comeuppance they needed at Starrcade, so it makes the constant heat intolerable, but at the time was it good?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 20:30
|
|
|
 😬
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
CVagts posted:I know that 1997 WWF is solid, but I can't remember, how was 1997 WCW? In hindsight I kind of hate it because I know the nWo never gets the comeuppance they needed at Starrcade, so it makes the constant heat intolerable, but at the time was it good? Sure, it was disconnected from the main event scene. But it was good wrestling, instead of guys from a bloated roster being crammed into lousy factional gimmicks that they came up with to compete with Up North.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 21:38
|
|
|
Now that's a lad who should have been a foil for Firebreaker Chip and Todd Champion.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 21:39
|
|
|
My memory of ‘97-‘98 Tuesday Nitro before people like Jericho and the Radicalz left and the wheels fell off was “wow, that undercard was actually really good” followed by despair whenever the main eventers came out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 21:50
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:My memory of ‘97-‘98 Tuesday Nitro before people like Jericho and the Radicalz left and the wheels fell off was “wow, that undercard was actually really good” followed by despair whenever the main eventers came out. As good as the WCW undercard was, with the cruiserweights and incredible talent like the Jericho and the guys who'd form the Radicalz later, there's only so much that even they can do when they're firmly anchored to where they are, with no opportunity for advancement. I know I've been banging this drum for a while now, but that's what WWE felt like before I stopped watching it. The same fuckers at the top of the card, having the same matches perpetually, while no one below is ever given a real, lasting chance to make their way up. It's just that the undercard rarely even gets a chance to have any properly good matches now. Sooner or later, something's got to give.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2021 21:59
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPhKw8-rwvk
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 00:15
|
|
|
The other issue with the great WCW undercard was that whilst you did have guys like Chavo, Ultimo Dragon etc. tearing it up in the ring, and guys like Raven and Jericho doing some of their best character work, (quick aside, but I ADORED conspiracy Jericho, almost as much as I loved just-sit-down-in-the-corner Raven). Whilst all this cool stuff was indeed going on on screen, all the commentators would be talking about was what Hogan was going to do later in the night, and that they had seen Kevin Nash put his right boot on first and then his left when he usually did it the other way around, what does this mean for the NWO? etc. So yeah the undercard was ace, but the people in charge didn't seem to give a poo poo about it. Which was probably why it was so cool and entertaining. To make a separate, but related point. Remember the Jericho vs Malenko feud? Where he interviewed a cardboard cut out, and called him Stinko Malenko? Well Jericho had to do that quite literally ALL by himself. The commentators, the writers gave him no help and no support. Yet, the moment in that battle royale where Juvi eliminates himself and Malenko takes off the mask got a bigger pop than anything the NWO ever did. My point being, the crowd decides what it wants to like/get engaged in. And no amount of brute forcing it by bookers/commentators/writers can affect that. Talk up your main event feuds as important all you like, but if the crowd cares more about a feud between vanilla midget midcarders, then they will cheer/boo who they want to, and ignore Hogan vs Macho Man volume 27.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
Listening to Bryan and Vinny and Bryan has this theory that the only thing the office wanted to get over is what they wanted to get over, so whenever Jericho did something good, or Eddie and Chris were a great tag team they would just bury it because it wasn't what they wanted to get over. Despite the fact the main event angle had run out of steam and the inmates were running the asylum. I'm up to March 1998 now, and I'm amazed how far away Hogan v Goldberg is and how the NWO will STILL BE GOING THEN WHEN IT SHOULD BE ENDED NOW WHAT THE HELL.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 02:44
|
|
|
There was also the Cuban Assassin.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 02:49
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:Listening to Bryan and Vinny and Bryan has this theory that the only thing the office wanted to get over is what they wanted to get over, so whenever Jericho did something good, or Eddie and Chris were a great tag team they would just bury it because it wasn't what they wanted to get over. I'm no wrestling historian but WCW and WWF/E are the biggest promotions ever in the US so far as I know and they both really had this problem. Maybe it's just a problem with promoters in general, this idea only the guys I want to get over and can get over? WWF stumbled into Austin and Rock and McMahon, once-in-a-lifetime stars as Bryan always stresses, and they basically just ignored a lot of great potential because of it. I'm also doing a Retro listen and I just got to 99 and I'm positive it's somewhere around here where Bryan reads off a letter written into I think the Observer about all the squandered talent in the WWF roster. It wasn't just a WCW thing. it was more just that WWF had Rock and Austin and then various necessities like Austin having to take time off made them elevate Triple H and whatnot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 02:56
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:I'm up to March 1998 now, and I'm amazed how far away Hogan v Goldberg is and how the NWO will STILL BE GOING THEN WHEN IT SHOULD BE ENDED NOW WHAT THE HELL. And it doesn't get much better once Goldberg wins. Hogan main events the next three pay per views after losing the belt. Looking at the events after Goldberg goes over Hogan... Goldberg's title run kinda sucks rear end.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 09:58
|
|
|
BrigadierSensible posted:The other issue with the great WCW undercard was that whilst you did have guys like Chavo, Ultimo Dragon etc. tearing it up in the ring, and guys like Raven and Jericho doing some of their best character work, (quick aside, but I ADORED conspiracy Jericho, almost as much as I loved just-sit-down-in-the-corner Raven). Whilst all this cool stuff was indeed going on on screen, all the commentators would be talking about was what Hogan was going to do later in the night, and that they had seen Kevin Nash put his right boot on first and then his left when he usually did it the other way around, what does this mean for the NWO? etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 14:41
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:WWF stumbled into Austin and Rock and McMahon, once-in-a-lifetime stars as Bryan always stresses, and they basically just ignored a lot of great potential because of it. I'm also doing a Retro listen and I just got to 99 and I'm positive it's somewhere around here where Bryan reads off a letter written into I think the Observer about all the squandered talent in the WWF roster. It wasn't just a WCW thing. it was more just that WWF had Rock and Austin and then various necessities like Austin having to take time off made them elevate Triple H and whatnot. And the funny part it is lots of people forget that it took a good while to actually pull the trigger on Austin. It was a good few months after King of the Ring until I guess they decided they couldn't ignore literally everything around them, so they almost squandered Austin. It doesn't feel like they did the same with the Rock, but maybe Austin's success made them more willing to jump on Rocky as he was taking off.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 15:04
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:And the funny part it is lots of people forget that it took a good while to actually pull the trigger on Austin. It was a good few months after King of the Ring until I guess they decided they couldn't ignore literally everything around them, so they almost squandered Austin. It doesn't feel like they did the same with the Rock, but maybe Austin's success made them more willing to jump on Rocky as he was taking off. The thing about The Rock is that WWF wanted him to be at minimum a popular midcarder as soon as they brought him in. Look at how fast he won the Intercontinental Title when he came in as Rocky Maivia. It's still a fast push, but he's someone they wanted to push already, as opposed to Austin being too popular to not push.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 17:46
|
|
|
Lurks With Wolves posted:The thing about The Rock is that WWF wanted him to be at minimum a popular midcarder as soon as they brought him in. Look at how fast he won the Intercontinental Title when he came in as Rocky Maivia. It's still a fast push, but he's someone they wanted to push already, as opposed to Austin being too popular to not push. That's a great point as I had completely forgotten about him being hotshot-ed and he's proof that if WWE ever knew when to throttle back they'd have stars grow naturally instead of trying to force them but well Vince.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 21:16
|
|
|
FUCKFACE MORON posted:Ironically enough, Schiavone was really bad about this I think it was at the point where he'd just stopped giving a gently caress and was just parroting whatever lines were fed to him while he was going through the motions. He clearly gives a poo poo with AEW, and he's been fab.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2021 23:06
|
|
|
He wrestled Hart end of 96, then was in the world title match Feb 97, wrestled Hart again, one of their top guys at Mania 97, got knocked out in Summerslam 97 and then was clearly the main guy/no. 2 behind Taker by end of 97 and them won the Rumble in 98 and was clearly the number 1 babyface after they blew off Taker/Shawn. They clearly had him pushed from end of 96 so it wasn't like Austin was a fluke, they had him with top guys for a while. Rocky was different in so far as the pushed him as a face, and then turned him heel and had him work with underneath guys and the quality of his work just sky-rocketed early 98.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 00:17
|
|
|
Modern Vince would've just kept Rock a face until the fans accepted him, even if that's never. The power of being able to tell Vince that something sucks and not getting fired, or browbeat by Stephanie and HHH.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 04:21
|
|
|
Austin’s ascension from kotr in may or June 96 to champion at wm in 98 was done great. The week before wm 97 the raw main was bret vs Sid in a cage for the title. They weren’t sure what they wanted the title match to be. Sid/undertaker or bret/austin. So whomever won that match was the title match for wm97. Bret/austin didn’t need the juice since austin was the hottest thing in the company. Making the fans wait until wm14 was a good move. They sold a ton of tacky shirts and austin was solidly in the main event for almost 2 years between 96 and winning the title in 98. I do wonder if they would have put the title on him sooner had he not gotten injured against Owen. I know bret would have been willing to drop the title against him before he left the company. Although I think Shawn Michaels politicking probably would have stopped that. And shawns obvious injury made it a done deal that austin wins the title at wm14. Also the undertaker telling Shawn to do the job or die sealed the deal.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 07:49
|
|
|
Austin v Bret III at WrestleMania 14 is probably one of the greatest 'lost' matches of all time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2021 15:29
|
|
|
I just reached the episode I mentioned earlier. It's the March 6 2018 episode. I only uploaded Bryan reading the letter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWwexgTZEzo It's amazing how many people he mentioned who would go on to be stars like Edge and Christian or the Hardy's, although they were squandered for a good while as they pushed fuckin' DOA for years. And Ken Shamrock not being a top guy is still mystifying to me. And Vader was a proven top guy so loving him up is even more mystifying So much squandered potential in WWF.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 07:23
|
|
|
The story Cornette tells is he was booked with Shawn but Shawn didn't like working with him cos Vader was a big tough guy that stiffed people all the time. I also love that in Bret's book he claims Vader walked up to him at Montreal and was like "Protect your back brother, Vince historically screws people in situations like this don't let yourself get in any holds." edit: Also this is probably a podcast thread post but listening to these Retro Raws and Bryan's feud with Fedex is amazing. "WCW wouldn't have been able to fire me cos Fedex wouldn't have been able to find my house" lol. algebra testes fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Oct 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 09:06
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:The story Cornette tells is he was booked with Shawn but Shawn didn't like working with him cos Vader was a big tough guy that stiffed people all the time. IIRC Vader was supposed to win the title at Summerslam but HBK pouted and got his way, so instead Shawn loses once by countout and it gets restarted because Cornette realizes Vader can't be champ that way, then gets DQ'd for hitting Shawn with the racket, then Jim demands another restart and Shawn wins with...a moonsault press? El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Oct 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 16:46
|
|
|
The spooky creepy month of Tuesday Nitro continues tonight at 8 with Halloween Havoc 96. We hope you will join us. http://psp-tv.com/r/badmoviesworsewrestling
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2021 22:12
|
|
|
The American Dream posted:Austin’s ascension from kotr in may or June 96 to champion at wm in 98 was done great. From how Austin and Bret have related this in interviews and written pieces, Bret had to force Vince to let him work with and bring Austin up to the main event level. Vince was going to do as he wanted, and not care one whit about who the fans are cheering for.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2021 14:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 22:34 |
|
|
smikey posted:From how Austin and Bret have related this in interviews and written pieces, Bret had to force Vince to let him work with and bring Austin up to the main event level. Vince was going to do as he wanted, and not care one whit about who the fans are cheering for. That made me wonder what was Vince's choice for Bret's comeback match?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2021 15:33
|
|
